The Nuclear Thread

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Jewthulhu

Stop worrying and love the bomb
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Nuclear weapons and the strategy behind them have been an interest of mine for a while. This is a place to discuss any aspect of nuclear weapons that tickles your fancy. How they work, their history, strategy, politics, and, of course, how you will survive the incoming nuclear apocalypse. Feel free to suggest literature and media related to the subject.

Doctrines
How countries plan on using nuclear weapons
United States - The US nuclear doctrine is primarily counterforce, with a general "no cities" policy. Of course, the nature of counterforce targets means cities won't be completely safe, but one might suspect that the US would use lower-yield weapons on targets near cities. While one might also suspect that the US will not use nuclear weapons until one is used first, the US has declined to accept a "no first use" policy. The reason for that is the US's "nuclear umbrella," meaning our nuclear deterrent extends to our non-nuclear allies (Korea, Japan, NATO). The US arsenal is a triad, consisting of air, sea, and land-based weapons. However, the most numerous is the sea-based SLBMs, in part due to their survivability. Most of the US's arsenal is strategic. While there was an extensive tactical weapons program during the early Cold War, most of our tactical nuclear weapons have been decommissioned, as US conventional capability has improved and doctrine has switched to prioritizing high-accuracy conventional weapons.

Russia - Russian nuclear doctrine is more opaque than that of western nations. However, from what is known and observed, Russian nuclear doctrine can be seen to have two goals: political coercion, and emergency tactical use. Politically, Russia uses its massive arsenal in an attempt to control escalation through threat of use. Adding to this, Russian doctrine allows for a preemptive first strike, likely in response to the survivability threat posed by the US' counterforce doctrine. Tactically, Russia possesses a large number of battlefield nuclear weapons, which may be used in emergency situations to make up for conventional inferiority. Given the Russian way of war seen in Ukraine, large-scale use can be expected to be largely countervalue, though counterforce targeting is likely included in a strike plan. Russia possesses a nuclear triad, though the bulk of its triad is in ground-launched ballistic missiles. Additionally, rather than relying on hardened silos, much of Russia's ICBMs are mobile, with the goal of improving survivability through mobility.

China - China's nuclear doctrine is in some ways transparent, but in other ways very opaque. China maintains a minimum-credible deterrent, and has a formal "no-first use" policy. However, due to the opaqueness of the Chinese government, the validity of these stances is heavily questioned. China is also undergoing a significant expansion of its nuclear forces alongside the general modernization of its military. It possesses a nuclear triad, though the SLBM portion of its deterrent is still undergoing modernization and construction.

North Korea - North Korea's arsenal is still small, limited in range, and at the moment lacks an SLBM component, making survivability low and vulnerable to counterforce. However, their doctrine is quite aggressive. It allows for preemptive use against the US and SK, as well as tactical use. As North Korea lacks counterforce capabilities, any strategic strike will likely be countervalue.

Israel - Israel's nuclear doctrine can be summed up in the "Samson Option." In short, if Israel is at risk of being completely overrun by a hostile foreign power, they will launch a full nuclear attack against said power. As most hostile nations are non-nuclear, such a strike will necessarily be countervalue. Israel has a nuclear triad, as well as a tactical nuclear capability.

India - India's nuclear stockpile is mainly in response to Pakistan's. They have a nuclear triad, but maintain only a minimum-credible deterrent, and are a no-first use nation.

Pakistan - Pakistan's nuclear program is largely in response to India's, and serves mainly to deter aggression from India. As India is a stronger military power, Pakistan maintains it would use nuclear weapons upon war with India to avoid an almost certain conventional loss. Pakistan has a nuclear triad, though lacks SLBMs.

France - France's nuclear program is a largely political one, intended to maintain French independence from the US nuclear umbrella. It is a largely countervalue force, and France uniquely maintains an open first-strike posture. However, it exists mainly as a political deterrent, and is restricted for use to protect their "vital interests," which is most likely territorial integrity and the safety of the population. France has a sea and air component, but lacks land-based nuclear missiles.

United Kingdom - The UK's nuclear stockpile is entirely consistent of SLBMs, and is minimum-credible. Standard of use is kept vague, they have neither a first use nor a no-first use policy.
Survival
General tips on surviving the apocalypse
The two major targets are population centers and silos. Depending on the war and the strategy employed, one might not be targeted, but it's better to be safe than sorry. As far as population centers go, the larger and more industrialized, the more dangerous. A small city will likely not get prioritized, but if you live in New York or LA, and suspect a war, it might be best to bug out.

In general, you're safest in a rural area, provided it's not near a silo site. Suburban areas may be safe as well, depending on their distance from a high-risk target. You're more likely to need to take precautions if you live closer to a major city

This applies largely to the US. In other nations, the situation is different. In a war between NATO and Russia, Europe is likely to be targeted; particularly the UK and France, but possibly also Eastern European nations. In a war between the US and China or North Korea, South Korea and Japan will likely be at risk. Again, stay away from major cities when tensions get high. In general though, nations not involved in the conflict are not at a high risk. Unlike what the media portrays, a "global thermonuclear war" will likely not really be "global."
A surprise nuclear attack is very unlikely. In other words, you are likely to see a nuclear war coming before it actually starts. It will likely be preceded by a period of intense conventional conflict, increasing tensions, and possibly even a tactical (battlefield) nuclear exchange. A responsible nation would likely issue a partial evacuation order for high-risk targets, but don't count on it. An initial exchange will likely be only a few weapons. If you're dumb enough not to evacuate before then and are lucky enough not to live in a target area, that's another good sign to bug out.
If you get advanced warning:
-Get to a basement or other underground shelter.
-Stay away from windows.
-Look away from the likely blast zone. There is a real risk of eye damage from the initial flash.

If you see the flash:
-Get away from windows. The blast wave will shatter them and you could end up with glass injuries.
-Duck and cover. It's not a meme. Ducking will protect you from the effects of the blast wave. Covering your skin will protect from flash injuries.
After the first blast, get underground as fast as possible. Nuclear strategy relies on "overkill," meaning that there will likely be a followup. If you can't get to a shelter in time, prepare yourself and remember to duck and cover.

After the exchange, stay completely in your shelter for at least three days, with protection less travel not being safe for two weeks. While fallout is more of a risk around silos (due to the attack likely being groundburst), it's better to be safe than sorry.

If you have to leave at some point between day 3 and day 14 make sure to wear plenty of layers of clothing, covering every inch of skin you can, and shed them at the entrance to your shelter.
Resources
Want to learn more about the bomb?
History
The Making of the Atomic Bomb - Richard Rhodes
Weapons of Mass Destruction: An Encyclopedia of Worldwide Policy, Technology, and History - Croddy et al.

Strategy
Escalation and the Nuclear Option - Bernard Brodie
Strategy in the Missile Age - Bernard Brodie
Deterrence - Lawrence Freedman
The Evolution of Nuclear Strategy (4th Edition) - Lawrence Freedman
On Escalation: Metaphors and Scenarios - Herman Kahn
Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy - Henry Kissinger
On Limited Nuclear War in the 21st Century - Jeffery Larsen
Arms and Influence - Thomas C. Schelling

War & Aftermath
On Thermonuclear War - Herman Kahn
History
How India Got the Bomb
The Ultimate Guide to Nuclear Weapons

Prepping
Protection in the Nuclear Age

Strategy
Deterrence 101 (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3)
Nuclear Strategy for Beginners (Part 1, Part 2)
On Deterrence
U.S. Strategic Nuclear Policy, An Oral History (Part 1, Part 2)
Why One Nuke is Never Enough - Myth of the Overkill
 
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If Indiana Jones has taught me one thing it's that this is the safest place to be
fridge.png

Jokes aside the only thing I would add is that, in the event of Nuclear War, remember to stay completely in your shelter for at least three days, with protection less travel not being safe for two weeks. If you have to leave at some point between day 3 and day 14 make sure to wear plenty of layers of clothing, covering every inch of skin you can, and shed them at the entrance to your shelter.

Feel free to suggest literature and media related to the subject.
Top 3 Nuclear War Movies:
3. The Day After
2. Threads
1. On the Beach
 
If Indiana Jones has taught me one thing it's that this is the safest place to be

Jokes aside the only thing I would add is that, in the event of Nuclear War, remember to stay completely in your shelter for at least three days, with protection less travel not being safe for two weeks. If you have to leave at some point between day 3 and day 14 make sure to wear plenty of layers of clothing, covering every inch of skin you can, and shed them at the entrance to your shelter.


Top 3 Nuclear War Movies:
3. The Day After
2. Threads
1. On the Beach
My Dad was fucking terrified of nuclear war after watching "The Day After" when he was younger. He tells me that he used to have this visceral repeating nightmare where a Soviet flag was beginning to press down on him while in bed for years on end until he finally married my Mom and had me.
 
Jokes aside the only thing I would add is that, in the event of Nuclear War, remember to stay completely in your shelter for at least three days, with protection less travel not being safe for two weeks. If you have to leave at some point between day 3 and day 14 make sure to wear plenty of layers of clothing, covering every inch of skin you can, and shed them at the entrance to your shelter.
I will mention that fallout is more of a concern for groundburst, which would likely be around silos rather than city targets. Not that taking precautions isn't a good idea. Better safe than sorry in a disaster situation.

I'll add it to the survival tips in the OP either way.
 
atomcentral is a good channel for nuclear test footage and old documentaries:

Harold Agnew took the only (aerial?) film of the Hiroshima blast:


In 2020, Russia published an old documentary showing Tsar Bomba test footage. I believe the original source has been privated on YouTube, so here's an AI upscale:

New information is still being released about nuclear weapons to this day, such as America's advanced RIPPLE design which was tested in the Operation Dominic series. These days, the US is producing less exciting B61-12 bombs with configurable yields of up to 50 kilotons, but is planning to produce B61-13 bombs that can reach 340 kilotons.

The 2020 Beirut port explosion is nice to look at, because it simulated what a low-yield tactical nuclear explosion (estimates range from 0.2 to 1.1 kilotons) in a city could look like, recorded from multiple angles in high definition:
The explosion is obviously not comparable in every way, but it gives you a taste. The damage to the city would have been worse if the nearby grain elevator hadn't absorbed a substantial portion of the impact.

Oblig: The Pentagon Is Investigating UFOs That Possibly Turned Off Warheads (archive)

Do I WANT to survive a nuclear war though?
If you come out of it without dying or being seriously disfigured, you could become a filthy migrant to some place that didn't get hit, like South America.
 
The Government bombed the rural part of my state (Nevada) back in the 50s during nuclear testing. They were actually conducting them in the NTTR right beside Area 51 of all places, I don't know if they still do it but they used to offer guided tours of the testing range which was a really neat way to see the aftermath of an atomic blast, allowing you to look at some of the structures they built to test on. If it still exists I would recommend it for those interested in nuclear stuff.

Interestingly the tests were visible from Las Vegas, about eighty miles away, which must have been a quite a shock for the residents to see.

nuclear testing.png
This was the view of the mushroom cloud from Fremont Street (The old strip)
 
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Don't forget about John Hersey's Hiroshima. A short, gripping, classic read about the aftermath of nukes and their horrors.

Are there any good books on Israel's Samson Option?
 
How does your shelter game look? I've always wanted one of these but at $30,000+ it's definitely out of reach for me. Does anybody have any poor man's solution?
One of the videos in the OP has homemade shelter suggestions from the 50s.
Are there any good books on Israel's Samson Option?
From a quick search, this seems to be the primary book on the subject. Though the description makes it seems a bit sensationalist.

As an aside, I cannot recommend "The Evolution of Nuclear Strategy" enough. It's an amazing book on understanding the history of nuclear thought and policy. It's not a substitute for reading the strategists works themselves, but for an overview with a lot of historical and political context it's amazing.
 
The problem is not the radiation, they are even working on a pill for that called HOPO 14-1.

The problem of nuclear war is the destruction, we wont be able to make shit after our entire industrial base is gone and there are no countries to import machinery from since even australia which is full of 5-eyes bases will get hit.
If you come out of it without dying or being seriously disfigured, you could become a filthy migrant to some place that didn't get hit, like South America.
Implying they'll let you in.
Interestingly the tests were visible from Las Vegas, about eighty miles away, which must have been a quite a shock for the residents to see.
It wasn't a shock, more like a tourist attraction.
How does your shelter game look? I've always wanted one of these but at $30,000+ it's definitely out of reach for me. Does anybody have any poor man's solution?
Those shelters are a cope, most of the owners will never make it there in time and practically anyone who lives near the construction site or was involved in building them will know about it.

Its all a scam.
Here are some daisies found in the aftermath of Fukushima.
View attachment 6180860
View attachment 6180864
There's something unsettling about how "off" they look.
Its called fasciation and has nothing to do with radiation.
 
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The problem of nuclear war is the destruction, we wont be able to make shit after our entire industrial base is gone and there are no countries to import machinery from since even australia which is full of 5-eyes bases will get hit.
If there's any tactical reason to hit a city at all, it's to cripple the industrial base. It won't recover by the time the war is finished.
That said, it will recover. Eventually.

And if Australia is going to be hit, it would be due to submarine basing (assuming we're parking SLBMs there). Even then, I'd put the chance at low. The only possible matchup I could see where a country might want to target Australia is against China, and China only has a minimum credible deterrent so they're more likely to do a countervalue attack against US cities.
 
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Interestingly the tests were visible from Las Vegas, about eighty miles away, which must have been a quite a shock for the residents to see.

They actually kinda enjoyed them. Have a look into dawn bomb parties and atomic parties. The rich would rent out the top floor of hotels and drink/party with the atomic test being like a firework display lol.


On another note, other targets include airbases and deep water navel ports (both these locations usually hold large ordanace magazines as well) so if you stay near these locations consider bugging out too.
 
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Those shelters are a cope, most of the owners will never make it there in time and practically anyone who lives near the construction site or was involved in building them will know about it.

Its all a scam.
What's the solution then, an old wine cellar? People need to be prepping for the possibility of Cobalt Nukes, it's important to always prep for the worst case and I can't imagine the basement or central interior room of a home keeping Radiation out if the Russians are firing salted bombs.
 
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