Trannies are a symptom, not the cause. - I don't think AGP and the troon menace just emerged in a vacuum, it is a secondary condition that grew from an older underlying problem passing an extreme threshold.

[Molag Bal]

I was thinking of putting this in an unpopular opinion thread, but I actually would like to talk about this without derailing a more general thread.



TL: DR: AGP isn't just a fetish that came out of nowhere and was astroturfed into a lifestyle by the pharma industry. Pharma merely found a niche that already existed. We as a society have doubled down on worshiping and praising women on every angle so much, that we traumatized an entire generation of boys into wanting to be women.



Everyone if they are honest, can agree that trannies are a menace and a contagious form of dysfunction that needs to be addressed. But I don't agree they are the issue itself. I think they are a symptom and that woman-worship created a climate hostile to young boys just to feed the ego of women, whether it is by institutions, NGOs, entertainment, news and the like, and that this is the actual cause.

Let's start off with entertainment and news, compare in fiction or when pundits, news organizations and the like write articles and choose or frame stories, how men and women are portrayed. Men are unilaterally portrayed as clumsy and dim-witted oafs who are wrong about everything and need a strong and independent woman to come in and lecture them on what is right. Male leadership is always framed in a way that associates it with stagnation and 'old bad ideas', residual dysfunction that requires a female hand to fix. To make for stories about female hero figures coming in and fixing it simply by oozing their own perfection onto everything they touch.
At the same time, men are also portrayed as dangerous predators that need to be isolated from each other as well as from women through every avenue possible. Can't have all-male gatherings of any kind, can't have all-male anything, even if it's imaginary. It's immediately branded as sausage fests or condemned for being 'sexist'.

College courses and even parts of high school curriculi include bizarre segments revolving around how men engage in verbal violence. Little boys that get too active in school or kindergarten are censured and punished for it or even put on drugs to stop them, all gestures that convey very clear disapproval of what is in most cases, ordinary behavior from a child. NGOs hold workshops where they spend hours telling young boys that they are bad for being boys, privately funded 'humanitarian' organizations insert themselves into court cases involving men and women to prevent any woman ever from losing a case at any cost, on a stage that the whole world can see.
And you can bet that all of the above also affects the overall attitude of the people within this machine, not to mention how it emboldens childless, single women in their fourties and fifties to take out their frustrations on young men from within the positions of authority over them that we - for whatever reason - allow them to occupy.

Every signal society at large sends out to the young observer growing up is a non-stop barrage of and "men bad this, men bad that, waah waah waah how dare you have a penis". Now as a gen-xer or an early millennial, I can already hear you asking or thinking "Who cares? It's just a fad, it's retards being retarded.", but we didn't grow up with this, we didn't witness the extremes of this when we were children. Not to this extent at least. Imagine someone growing up with this shit NOW, being told and signalled from all sides from childhood or even infancy all the way into adulthood that he is a bad person and should feel bad for being a boy and later a man. An entire generation of them. By the time they're in their teens, they've already been subjected to over a decade of "You're a piece of shit scrote I hope you fucking die" - pure vitriol and hatred directed against them, baked into everything they hear and see.

How do you think this will affect them? How do you think they will cope with this? If you turn manhood into this original sin, this burden that they must bear and constantly be reminded of, to the point where they are traumatized into feeling tormented just from thinking about it - don't you think that at least some of them would try to shake this burden? Don't you think there would be a temptation to try to escape it? Like for instance, into womanhood, by fantasizing about becoming a woman.
Remember that you can ruin a tranny's day, just by making an "I follow men" account and following them on social media. Trannies themselves always claim that misgendering them causes real harm, that they feel deep emotional pain the moment their little bubble bursts and they are reminded that they are men. Could it be - possibly - that they aren't just making this up, and they are feeling a deep shame and guilt that they were conditioned from childhood onwards to associate with the thought of being a man?

It doesn't exactly help that hand in hand with shitting on boys, we are also propping up women and womanhood, every mouthpiece and every popularized fictional character we present to those boys is perpetually preoccupied with sucking off women and rambling about how great and smart and strong wamen XYZ is. So combined with the shame of being a man, you are presenting them with this thing - this concept to be desired, lording it over them and telling them that all those women in their and other generations are better people than them, just for having this great thing called womanhood. Obviously some of those boys - especially those more malleable - will then feel resentment towards women and feel the desire to take what said women have. Those traumatized men conditioned to hate themselves for having manhood and not womanhood, would then want to strip away women's womanhood and make it their own.

It's no wonder that the worst and most unhinged trannies come from the high fortresses of woke politics like Canada or Great Britain. There is a direct correlation between institutional and private wamen worship within a country, and the amount of men in it becoming psychos and putting on dresses. It's no wonder that trannies and homicidal incels have so much overlap, they are two sides of the same coin. Two symptoms of the same disease.


If we want to fix the problem causing trannies to exist long-term, we need to create an environment where boys grow up feeling good or okay with being what they are (boys/men). They need to be raised in such a way that allows them to think of themselves as the hero in their own story, rather than an obstacle that only exists for some girl to step over. This means fixing parts of basically everything from narrative trends in news and fiction to language in official documents to overall attitudes of people within local administrations (even or especially on lower levels), hiring policies within companies, school and university curriculi, when I say "basically everything" I am not exaggerating.

 

[SilkGnut]

You bring up a fair point, but have you thought about what you are proposing would entail? There is no individual in any position of authority who could propose ideas curtailing these attitudes without being absolutely crucified from all sides.

I have to imagine a female dominant economy is a more active economy after all, why would the current state of the male psyche be seen as problematic by those who are in a position to direct society?

 

[Marc]

The industries of escapism and vicarious achievement ensure there will always be people choosing to lead lives which can only be validated on the internet. And for those people, this practice goes hand in hand with chasing quick fixes out of their personal misery.

Fad cures come and go, and; so long as competitive victimhood is fickle by nature, far more ridiculous people adopting far more insidious artifices (as disguise and compensation for whatever it is about themselves that they prefer to run away from) will inevitably supplant the "trangendered" as the star attraction of the freak show. Even though our world is so creatively bankrupt as to be out of even bad ideas, escalation is guaranteed, so long as frogs are liable to remain sitting where they can be boiled.

In short: Yes. It is Symptom; and not Cause. There will always be lazy people trying to outrun themselves.

 

[pork and beans]

interesting point, but i dont think agp is because a societal women worshipping.
yes it is true that now men are seen as the enemy and women as the ones that are and should be empowered; but this is all marketing and pandering because subversion like that sells. plus whatever shit they put out, some are gonna hatewatch anyway.

fact is women hate themselves as well- look at ftms. youd think from the media womanhood has never offered so much benefits and social credit... and yet girls dont want to be girls either.

maybe millenial women are happy with their marvel heroines and strong poc disney princesses, but the average teenage girl wants to cut their tits off, have an onlyfans or both.

plus look at agps- they dont want to be a literal 27 year old gilrboss, they want to be a cute catgirl with huge boobs and a tail. much like ftms dont want to be anything other than their favorite videogame or yaoi character.


i think companies have realised how proffitable it is pitting the two sexes against each other. and i think theres so many people wondering what means being a man or a woman because we have stopped defining masculinity or femininity in relation to the other. but yes, it is definitely a symptom and not the cause.

 

[Molag Bal]

You bring up a fair point, but have you thought about what you are proposing would entail?

It would require baby steps, a LOT of baby steps. Take the concept of 'death by a thousand cuts' and reverse it. Something like "recovery by a thousand balms". It's on every person individually to fix their attitude and apply it to whatever they do in life.

If you're a school teacher for instance and you're about to scold a little boy for being too loud during recess, or you're even about to put him on drugs, ask yourself: "Did he really do anything wrong?" And the answer is no, he didn't.
If you're a parent and you suspect teachers mistreating your child like that, you can make a stink about it and brigade the school until they stop.
If you work in low level administration and you overhear some female coworker bragging about how she totally stuck it to whichever poor sod she was inconveniencing this time, ask her what the sod did to her and for lack of an answer, tell her she's bad and stupid for having an axe to grind with random strangers.
If you work in any kind of part of the media apparatus and spot someone being too obsessive about any form of 'le men' whether it's muh angry white men or muh gamers or muh incels or whatever, tell them that their adversarial attitude to an entire sex is unhinged and that if it doesn't stop, they should get psychiatric help.
If you work in any form of entertainment and you realize you're involved in the making of yet another x-quintillionth iteration of "those damn old men with their bad attitudes caused problems in comes strong independent female protagonist to teach them better", change it or gently try to convey to coworkers that this narrative angle is stale, overused and socially detrimental.
If you work anywhere even adjacent to the legal apparatus, re-examine every case you process from a perspective of whether every party is really having their rights and their standpoint respected, view every case with the sexes reversed and see if you suddenly spot an injustice.

And of course if in any of the above scenarios you are the troublemaker causing the problem rather than a coworker noticing it in someone else, you can simply do your part in fixing the problem by choosing NOT to do your part in causing or maintaining it.

I have to imagine a female dominant economy is a more active economy after all

I never claimed that women control or dominate anything, only that we, men and women alike, have taken to socializing newer generations of young boys into hating themselves in a misguided attempt to encourage young girls into pursuing....some vague form of fulfilment in life which we don't even specify.

why would the current state of the male psyche be seen as problematic by those who are in a position to direct society?

They don't, they have instead found ways to monetize it and are now financially invested in maintaining and worsening the problem rather than solving it. So it will never be solved top-down, the solution has to emerge from within the people.

There will always be lazy people trying to outrun themselves.

I disagree, I don't think that's all there is to it. People have been lazy for all of human history, but it's only during the most dysfunctional moments of it when men are putting on dresses and organizing to force people into compliance with their delusions.

plus look at agps- they dont want to be a literal 27 year old gilrboss, they want to be a cute catgirl with huge boobs and a tail. much like ftms dont want to be anything other than their favorite videogame or yaoi character.

That is actually a very good point. Though I'm not sure if it's that simple. It could be that what I described in OP is how the fetish itself emerges and the whole tripling down on fetishistic 'girly' shit is where people take their fantasy AFTER they've acquired it.

Also to cite Lucas Roberts as an obvious counter example
>I just took away your primary source of income, now obey me or else
In this case as well as many other trannies working in big tech, the domination and getting to use local power structures to lord your power over other people - just like the 27 y/o girlboss would - is obviously part of the appeal.

 

[Lyster]

Too late for any cure imo, radical individualization and atomization of humanity, society and daily life where the individual is completely alienated from his or her community, friendships and social life is at the crux of many issues today and to revert it is nearly impossible outside of societal collapse so a new society with a new ethos cam emerge.

 

[pork and beans]

That is actually a very good point. Though I'm not sure if it's that simple. It could be that what I described in OP is how the fetish itself emerges and the whole tripling down on fetishistic 'girly' shit is where people take their fantasy AFTER they've acquired it.

Also to cite Lucas Roberts as an obvious counter example
>I just took away your primary source of income, now obey me or else
In this case as well as many other trannies working in big tech, the domination and getting to use local power structures to lord your power over other people - just like the 27 y/o girlboss would - is obviously part of the appeal.

nicely put. yeah, perhaps. i think most if not all trannies are delusional in not only how they see their own sex but the opposite one as well. the version of womanhood or manhood they seek doesnt exist, its an exagerated version of what you find in movies, anime, media.

for keffals thats the girlboss fantasy; for others, like dylan mulvaney, its becoming the ballet coquette audrey hepburn girl of their dreams and for others is being the cute anime girl that gets all the headpats or for the ones that arent agp, the average girl who isnt an unhappy loser with a shitty life. its all about escapism.

 

[Mothra1988]

First of all, you need to learn to condense your spiel. I mean I used to have the same problem, but people aren't going to read a novella on a message board.

I can generally agree with you that males have been unfairly stigmatized. This is the result of Marxist thinking that lumps people into big classes at conflict with eachother. Due to this all men are blamed for rape instead of of just the rapists, etc. The goal should have always been equal treatment under the law and viewing people as individuals, not representatives of some clan. That way differences between people are respected and no one is stigmatized from the onset.

 

[AgendaPoster]

You have to write much shorter.
It's not really about males only. If you look at the GID clinics data (used to be online), most recent troonsplosion was due to females, i.e. FtMs.
Males are also split between AGP and HSTS, so it's not just one group, and that's but one typology, there are more. This is psychiatry, you won't find a unified theory of the human mind, especially when it comes to paraphilias and sexually deviant behaviors.
I don't think there's any astroturfing. Many online schizos (not you, just to make sure) are always seeing conspiracies and shady groups behind phenomena.
Sadly, things are much more complex than that. There are organically developing tiny snowballs that simply synergize into large crushing boulders if given the correct circumstances.
Troonery has been given the perfect mix of lunacy infected humanity, i.e. the normie-on-the-Internet, tumblr, progressive shift in the West etc. toxic cocktail.
In fact, most changes are VERY recent and basically a purely Internet-catalyzed phenomenon.
There is no shady big pharma cabal that imposed this; in fact, these industries had a conservative outlook on the issue, but a new generation of spergs got medically "educated" and got jobs.
The right wing has been obliterated from "science". I work at a hospital and university, and besides people above 65, everyone is progressive, inside a conservative country. There are hundreds of blue hair students. There are dozens of purple hair medics and nurses with "feminist" glasses and stereotypical behavior.
They will make the rules in full in a decade, and if you think this is now bad, wait for 2030s.
You want this fixed? Get educated and in academia.

 

[Sumptinsfuckey]

Its simple. Trooninicity is the inevietable result of feminism. Once you buy the fiction that men and women are "equal" you are inherently denying reality in a way that ignores biology. Once you have done so, the idea that men can become women, and vice versa is merely a difference in degree, rather than a difference in kind.

 

[Mothra1988]

Its simple. Trooninicity is the inevietable result of feminism. Once you buy the fiction that men and women are "equal" you are inherently denying reality in a way that ignores biology. Once you have done so, the idea that men can become women, and vice versa is merely a difference in degree, rather than a difference in kind.

This is largely BS and a real simplification. For one, you are glossing over the huge cavernous difference between oldschool second wave feminists like JK Rowling and then the "gender is a construct" bullshit that came after people started taking some loon named Judith Buatler seriously, which filtered down into a third wave separated from the radicals and liberals of the second wave. It was a complete fork in the road. Not that the oldschool feminists are great people either for different reasons, but they hate troons as much as you do. The idea that men can become women is completely antithetical to what the second wavers believed in.

 

[Sumptinsfuckey]

This is largely BS and a real simplification. For one you, are glossing over the huge cavernous difference between oldschool second wave feminists like JK Rowling and then the "gender is a construct" bullshit that came after people started taking some loon named Judith Buatler seriously, which filtered down into a third wave separated from the radicals and liberals of the second wave. It was a complete fork in the road. Not that the oldschool feminists are great people either for different reasons, but they hate troons as much as you do. The idea that men can become women is completely antithetical to what the second wavers believed in.

It doesn't matter what "first bullshit" feminists hate, or what they think they believe in. Once you deny reality it becomes the basis for further denial of reality. That they were too stupid to understand where thier beliefs would lead is irrelevant. Troon ideology is the natural child of feminism, because feminism is and always been a luxury belief based on the denial of reality.

 

[La Salpêtrière]

AGP is not new, it was always here. You can find records of clearly-agp from the victorian era.  Modern Japan is filled to the brim with agps and you can hardly call those places beacoms of feminism.
In fact, i would argue that agp itself has nothing to do with women. You can treat women like queens or broodmares, it doesnt matter, the agp would jump out of the brushes and say "thats hot, that should be me". Agp is literally unchecked male fetishism and narcissism, nothing more. And like all perverts, they don't actually care about the rest of the world.
However, i would give to you that thanks to the war of the sexes agps they have a massive amount of lost autistic teens (that no one wants to deal with, and i might develop this point later) to groom. But i personally i wouldnt call them agps, they're kids. It's like calling kids bpd because they're lost horny teens.
However if they're still fapping to their own image as a women well into the adulthood, thats an agp. It means the grooming was efective.

 

[Mothra1988]

It doesn't matter what "first bullshit" feminists hate, or what they think they believe in. Once you deny reality it becomes the basis for further denial of reality. That they were too stupid to understand where thier beliefs would lead is irrelevant. Troon ideology is the natural child of feminism, because feminism is and always been a luxury belief based on the denial of reality.

>this is feminists fault!
>10 minutes pass
>it doesn't matter what feminists believe!

Yeah, great logical argument. lol

Denial of what reality? You don't even elaborate other than barking generalities.

 

[Smug]

Of course they are merely a symptom. The question I'd have for you is: if you want to find the root cause, how far are you willing to dig?

Spoiler: dig

The AGP troon specifically comes about from a combination of lust and envy for women which is then weaponised by a transhumanist philosophy (realised in medical science) to create an abomination.

Spoiler: dig

All of that only comes about from religious belief in tenets such as "envy is acceptable", "equal outcomes are desirable", "my body is mine to alter as I see fit"

Spoiler: dig

All of that only comes about from belief in "equality",

Spoiler: dig

your post-Christian subversive (((ideology))) currently infecting the western world.

 

[La Salpêtrière]

It doesn't matter what "first bullshit" feminists hate, or what they think they believe in. Once you deny reality it becomes the basis for further denial of reality. That they were too stupid to understand where thier beliefs would lead is irrelevant. Troon ideology is the natural child of feminism, because feminism is and always been a luxury belief based on the denial of reality.

Troon ideology it's the natural child of liberalism, not feminism. And liberalism produced a lot of things, including most feminism though, but it's not the same.

Once you deny reality it becomes the basis for further denial of reality.

I have a problem with this phrase. In essence it's true but also "deny reality" it's a gross simplification of what they (the apex troons, the ones directing the movement) actually do. They pretend to deny reality, but actually they don't do that. They arent psychotic (not at least as a principal diagnostic, and when they're psychotic frist and troons second it's a diferent thing altogether) they interpret reality in the worst, most destructive way possible, in a twisted mix of nihilism and thanatos, Once you go at the heart of the queer movimient you can't unsee it, their objetive is destruction. Queerism is not a folie à plusieurs or a mass hysteria , it's a cult of death. And this is a particular characteristic of them, i wouldnt say that it's inherent of liberalism or any byproduct of it, no matter how much i hate them. (Although there are some variants of feminism that in fact worship death, particularly the onces that promote sexposi and haes and such bullshit)

 

[Sumptinsfuckey]

>this is feminists fault!
>10 minutes pass
>it doesn't matter what feminists believe!

Yeah, great logical argument. lol

Denial of what reality? You don't even elaborate other than barking generalities.

Woman or fag?

Doesn't matter really, just curious.
As to "denial of what reality" it is literally in the post you quoted.

I would tell you to learn to read, but the real problem is you don't know how to think.

 

[Sumptinsfuckey]

Troon ideology it's the natural child of liberalism, not feminism. And liberalism produced a lot of things, including most feminism though, but it's not the same.

How do you define liberalism?

 

[Mothra1988]

Woman or fag?

Great retort, you dumb as shit midwit.

As to "denial of what reality" it is literally in the post you quoted.

I asked you to get into specifics, you have not. May as well conede you don't know what you're talking about then.

 

[murph]

It's faggot acceptance brought us to the slippery slope. Pride parades have become the ultimate in degeneracy, with each year trying to outdo the last year, and it's been going on for 50 or so years now so it's no surprise that the bar for being a degenerate is leather pups and gay fuckery on your sidewalk.

They sold us "we just want to be like you" when it was everything but.