Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Blueberry]

The troll world that existed from 2008-2010 was a magical thing that will never be recreated. It gave Chris triumph, tragedy, lovers, sworn enemies, a adoring fandase, brushing with celebrities. it gave him life. It was probably the greatest time in Chris's life. If the powers that be could have only kept the illusion going a bit longer. I much prefer Chris and trolls than I do Chris and Reality.

 

[Autism]

Personally trolling of Chris doesn't come down to a matter of ethic's to me. Trolling is always going to be for negative reasons no matter how you spin it. For me the question is should people continue trying, which the answer is a yes and no. I somewhat feel like if Chris still had his Clyde Cash to battle against he'd be more stable. He'd have a focus and a purpose in life. Chris left on his own with an ailing mother, a couple pets and the shattered remains of the childhood he so desperately tries to hold onto is a terrible thing. A new nemesis might take his mind off it but honestly what is there to do to Chris that hasn't already been done?I don't know man Chris now a days is just too fucked up. I miss the halcyon days when he was just a pudgy naive kid drawing his comics and getting mad at people on the internet.

 

[Pickle Inspector]

The troll world that existed from 2008-2010 was a magical thing that will never be recreated. It gave Chris triumph, tragedy, lovers, sworn enemies, a adoring fandase, brushing with celebrities. it gave him life. It was probably the greatest time in Chris's life. If the powers that be could have only kept the illusion going a bit longer. I much prefer Chris and trolls than I do Chris and Reality.

Well he's come a long way from the innocent days he used euphemisms because he didn't like swearing but I think even without the trolls Chris would have become more jaded (Maybe not so paranoid), back then he honestly seemed to think that success with Sonichu was just around the corner and had a strange notion that once he had sex all his problems would be solved.

Right now Chris needs to face reality, he's reached a point where he thinks he's untouchable and has no problem threatening and macing people plus at 32 he still doesn't comprehend that the relationships he had with his highschool sweethearts weren't normal mutual friendships and has left him with warped exceptions.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

The difficulty with the "it's okay for trolls to help him because a professional can't" argument is that Chris has never really had the professional help he needs. All he's had is Rocky, who frankly I suspect he only continued to see for so long because she didn't make him try to change too much, and whoever he saw after the last trial, whose brief was basically "make sure he's not going to go nuts and kill someone." Chris is a psychological mess, but I don't believe he's the strangest guy in the world by a long shot. The biggest obstacle is Chris' obstinacy, but I'm sure he's not the first resistant patient a psychologist has ever had to deal with. I'm not saying they would cure him, but it's impossible to say that he's beyond help when he hasn't really had any to begin with.

I somewhat feel like if Chris still had his Clyde Cash to battle against he'd be more stable. He'd have a focus and a purpose in life. Chris left on his own with an ailing mother, a couple pets and the shattered remains of the childhood he so desperately tries to hold onto is a terrible thing. A new nemesis might take his mind off it but honestly what is there to do to Chris that hasn't already been done?

Oh, Chris has a nemesis now, and it's whoever-is-responsible-for-Sonic's-blue-arms. But in real life, there are no single masterminds, so Chris can't turn his rage on any one person. Instead, he's turning it on everyone, no matter how peripherally involved they are.

 

[Marvin]

The difficulty with the "it's okay for trolls to help him because a professional can't" argument is that Chris has never really had the professional help he needs. All he's had is Rocky, who frankly I suspect he only continued to see for so long because she didn't make him try to change too much, and whoever he saw after the last trial, whose brief was basically "make sure he's not going to go nuts and kill someone." Chris is a psychological mess, but I don't believe he's the strangest guy in the world by a long shot. The biggest obstacle is Chris' obstinacy, but I'm sure he's not the first resistant patient a psychologist has ever had to deal with. I'm not saying they would cure him, but it's impossible to say that he's beyond help when he hasn't really had any to begin with.

People aren't saying he's beyond help, they're saying he'll refuse help. Chris wouldn't be merely a resistant patient, he'd outright refuse treatment, as is his right.

Help that's not immediately identifiable to Chris as "help" is more effective.

 

[Le Bateleur]

People aren't saying he's beyond help, they're saying he'll refuse help. Chris wouldn't be merely a resistant patient, he'd outright refuse treatment, as is his right.

Help that's not immediately identifiable to Chris as "help" is more effective.

Do you think that other people in similar situations should be offered "help that's not immediately identifiable as "help"", or just Chris?

 

[Marvin]

Do you think that other people in similar situations should be offered "help that's not immediately identifiable as "help"", or just Chris?

It's extremely context dependent, of course, but sure, absolutely.

Like if someone pretended to be an e-girlfriend to tell GoldenKnight not to creep on little girls at playgrounds, and he actually listened, that'd be a net positive result.

 

[Le Bateleur]

It's extremely context dependent, of course, but sure, absolutely.

Like if someone pretended to be an e-girlfriend to tell GoldenKnight not to creep on little girls at playgrounds, and he actually listened, that'd be a net positive result.

I agree at a philosophical level with that. I don't think it's possible in the real world.

How would you select who gets these interventions, and who delivers them? How would you measure effectiveness? How would you prevent the system getting abused by someone with a grudge or a crank view on something?

Consent in mental health is a classic medical ethics issue, and there's no one-size-fits-all answer.

In terms of principles, though, I support patient autonomy in almost every case.

It's hard to watch people be presented with the information to succeed, and still make poor choices. But more paternalistic systems have been tried in the past, and the side-effects have been ugly.

 

[Marvin]

I agree at a philosophical level with that. I don't think it's possible in the real world.

How would you select who gets these interventions, and who delivers them? How would you measure effectiveness? How would you prevent the system getting abused by someone with a grudge or a crank view on something?

Consent in mental health is a classic medical ethics issue, and there's no one-size-fits-all answer.

In terms of principles, though, I support patient autonomy in almost every case.

It's hard to watch people be presented with the information to succeed, and still make poor choices. But more paternalistic systems have been tried in the past, and the side-effects have been ugly.

Oh definitely. It's issues like this that are why I don't think trolling Chris to help him is a reasonable motivation from the beginning. Like, if you set out from the beginning to "help" Chris, you're either deluding yourself or you're misinformed about how stubborn Chris will be (i.e. read the cwcki a bit more and get back to me).

But things are a bit more murky when you've already got an "in" with Chris and he's talking about doing something dangerous to himself or others.

If I were in @Thetan's shoes, I wouldn't be trying to talk Chris out of this pepper spray stuff, but that's mostly because I think it's hopeless.

 

[Thetan]

Chris' life is fundamentally fucked while he lives with Barb.

THIS ^. I believe that a large part of the reason Chris is so adamant about refusing psychological help is because of Barb. Barb is selfish and lazy and having Chris see a psychologist brings with it the risk of him being taken away from her, at least for a long enough period of time for him to undergo a thorough evaluation (which can take up to 90 days). Barb would rather let Chris's mental health deteriorate rather than get up of her fat lazy ass and run her own fucking errands.

I have tried again and again via various trollsonas to get Chris to seek counseling. He either shuts down the conversation entirely, not responding for days (or until I change the suibject) or he claims that his time with Rocky was adequate and he doesn't require further intervention.

Yes, I absolutely agree that counseling would be the best course for Chris, but it's unlikely to happen (at least while Barb is around): of course, the outcome of his hearing could change this.

"Renee" talking with Chris is no different than any other Internet friend talking with anyone else. A lot of people don't use their actual names on the Internet because they're concerned about their privacy. You never know who you're talking to at the other end and there's no way of telling whether some casual remark on your part could plunge the other person into a deep depression, or send them on a rampage.

Renee is as real as any Internet or Facebook friend. She's never represented herself as a professional or an expert in the field of mental health. All she tries to do it to get Chris to see another point of view in order to help him understand how others may view his actions. When I'm interacting with Chris as Renee, I try to be honest and, above all reasonable. He's responded positively so far.

The risks of intervening in Chris's life can be debated, but, in certain cases, the risks of not intervening are demonstrably risky. Should I have not said anything about Chris's infected taint piercing and let Chris figure it out for himself somehow? What if, because of my failure to say something, Chris wound up with blood poisoning, or worse? My point is that the risks and responsibilities go ***both*** ways.

Well, trolls sent him to gay events. That's a smaller goal with good results.

This was my main focus as "Renee"; to get Chris to go out and socialize more. I tried to find venues that would be "safe" for him, where people were less inclined to be judgmental. I didn't post about these efforts because I didn't want weens showing up spoiling things for Chris.

The main reason Chris doesn't get out and socialize more is Barb. She has him on a very short leash and he spends most of his time running errands for her. (This was the excuse he gave Renee anyway.) When he went to Impulse Gay Social Club, he had to check in with her several times and he had a curfew of 11 PM.

Still, despite all of her controlling, Barb seems unable or unwilling from keeping Chris from getting into trouble with the law.

 

[KillerKarlKox]

To many people seeking counselling is essentially a cowardly thing to do. Chris was raised to think that he is a perfectly normal child, and everything he does is the way a normal person would behave. From the moment his parents pulled him from school so he didn't have to go into a special program, it was reinforced in his head that he was normal and everyone else just didn't understand. If he starts counseling, in his mind that is admitting he's not a normal person. With Barb's reinforcement of him being a perfectly normal adult, it is easy to see why counseling will never be sought out.

 

[Thetan]

If I were in @Thetan's shoes, I wouldn't be trying to talk Chris out of this pepper spray stuff, but that's mostly because I think it's hopeless.

Actually, I wasn't trying to talk him out of using the pepper spray (which wouldn't work because Chris is too damn stubborn) as much as I was trying to get him to examine his reasons for using the pepper spray. By presenting him with another viewpoint, I was hoping that he'd realize that he was being unreasonable and paranoid and decide for ***himself*** that his actions were wrong.

This is the approach I've always taken. Trying to dictate morality /proper societal conventions to Chris will get you absolutely nowhere.

 

[Cotton Puddings]

When he went to Impulse Gay Social Club, he had to check in with her several times and he had a curfew of 11 PM.

i can't decide if this is funny or sad

Still, despite all of her controlling, Barb seems unable or unwilling from keeping Chris from getting into trouble with the law.

this, however, is 100% sad

 

[Da Big Staw]

I think it's shameful how so many on this board kept calling out Thetan ect.. for being terrible ween trolls. Even after it's become obvious they were likely the "nicest" trolls, ones who went above and beyond to try and help Chris many still cling to this. I really hate how so many (particularly all our newly minted white knights) abuse the terms 'ween' and a-log to attack people.

If only we had the "no overboard bitching about Chris trolls rule" like on the jace board.

Id probably prefer "trolls" keep in contact with Chris because without that we would have far less info. It's absurd how people attack Thetan for contacting Chris the other day.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

I think it's shameful how so many on this board kept calling out Thetan ect.. for being terrible ween trolls. Even after it's become obvious they were likely the "nicest" trolls, ones who went above and beyond to try and help Chris many still cling to this. I really hate how so many (particularly all our newly minted white knights) abuse the terms 'ween' and a-log to attack people.

If only we had the "no overboard bitching about Chris trolls rule" like on the jace board.

Id probably prefer "trolls" keep in contact with Chris because without that we would have far less info. It's absurd how people attack Thetan for contacting Chris the other day.

Who has attacked Thetan and is not drowning in negative ratings?

 

[Le Bateleur]

I think it's shameful how so many on this board kept calling out Thetan ect.. for being terrible ween trolls. Even after it's become obvious they were likely the "nicest" trolls, ones who went above and beyond to try and help Chris many still cling to this. I really hate how so many (particularly all our newly minted white knights) abuse the terms 'ween' and a-log to attack people.

If only we had the "no overboard bitching about Chris trolls rule" like on the jace board.

Id probably prefer "trolls" keep in contact with Chris because without that we would have far less info. It's absurd how people attack Thetan for contacting Chris the other day.

Can you give examples of Thetan et al being called "ween" or "A-Log"?

Who are these "newly-minted White Knights"?

Why is it so important that you have ongoing access to "info" regarding a stranger's private life?

 

[Atlas 95]

Why is it so important that you have ongoing access to "info" regarding a stranger's private life?

Because it's funny and fascinating? That is why we're all here after all
That and Chris does this shit to himself. He sought out and engaged the trolls the first time, and now he's done it again, just not as consciously
He avoided the trolls for the better part of three years after Bob's death and Chris's first arrest so he clearly knows how to drop off the radar and not engage with people trying to troll him. Its just simply after the fire he no longer seems to care and he put himself out on the internet again, specifically on sites that are designed to help people find you and contact you.

 

[Thetan]

Who has attacked Thetan and is not drowning in negative ratings?

I am fine with people disagreeing with me. For the most part, people have been polite and reasonable and I've responded in kind.

There's nothing wrong with a good healthy debate: it's one of the reason I like these forums.

 

[Friends of A-Log]

To many people seeking counselling is essentially a cowardly thing to do. Chris was raised to think that he is a perfectly normal child, and everything he does is the way a normal person would behave. From the moment his parents pulled him from school so he didn't have to go into a special program, it was reinforced in his head that he was normal and everyone else just didn't understand. If he starts counseling, in his mind that is admitting he's not a normal person. With Barb's reinforcement of him being a perfectly normal adult, it is easy to see why counseling will never be sought out.

He's had counseling before, with Rocky, its just that Rocky is didn't have the competence to help.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

He's had counseling before, with Rocky, its just that Rocky is didn't have the competence to help.

That's the other problem. Legos aside, Any professional Chris could afford would be bottom of the barrel, or well-meaning but overworked.