Unschooling

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Unschooling is a new trend in which parents legally home school their children, but instead of choosing the curriculum, you allow the child to choose their own curriculum. You basically just leave them to their devices.

Most people, upon hearing of this, immediately assume that unschooling is a terrible idea because they assume that children will naturally spend all their time playing vidya and hitting things with sticks. But, unschooling parents argue that the reality is that they get just as good of results if not better. They argue that the natural tendency of children is to be curious and try to learn, but when confined to a state curriculum and a classroom full of ADHD/methbaby shitheads, their passion for learning is extinguished.

To be honest, I'm inclined to agree. Little children do seem to usually be a lot more enthusiastic about school than older kids, and in Third World countries where education is rare, travelers have often reported children in those societies being much more interested in the world around them than First World children are.

By allowing the child to study what they want in the way that they want, unschooling parents hope to encourage that attitude in their children and allow them to proceed as quickly as possible in the fields that they're good at. Statistically, unschooled children have turned out pretty well compared to the general population, and that's especially good considering that they don't have the vast resources of the state behind them...

How do Unschoolers Turn Out? | KQED

Unschoolers weigh in on how their lives have evolved, including college, career, and overall happiness.

www.kqed.org

(proof that I didn't pull this out of my ass)

So, how should we think about unschooling as a society? Personally, I feel like it's a good idea for the talented minority but maybe not for everybody. If you have the sort of child who's naturally curious and talented, they're probably better off being left to their devices then put through the school system meat grinder, public OR private. But, I would stipulate (as many unschooling parents do) that vidya and TV don't count as unschooling time. Like, the kid has to be made to study something. Also, some people argue about socialization. Usually unschooling parents just have their kids socialize in non-school events/associations, and again, they tend to turn out just as well if not better.

 

[The Pink Panther]

lol nigga we have a whole community watch thread on this shit:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/unschooling.25550/

 

[The Cunting Death]

That's incredibly fucking stupid

 

[nagant 1895]

I was home schooled from 3rd through through 8th grade. My mothers motto was "I never let schooling interfere with my education" a quote from Mark Twain. Based on my observations of the other home schooled children I assert that I was home schooled for the perfect amount of time. Kids who started too early were always way too family oriented and shy. Kids who never went to real high school ended up being failure of all sorts, dug addicts, selling their children to shady adoption agencies, you name it.
Even within my sibling group it worked out different for each of us. The youngest enjoyed the freedom and grew up dumb but hard working, Its been a long road for them to get to a stable place in life. The eldest studied fine but without social pressure on their looks they grew up fat as hell and cut off anyone who talks about it. Me in the middle, I feel i got the best of it. I spent a few hours a day working on math and science with mom and dad and the rest of the time reading The Great Books. People sometimes ask me what my major was or lament "I wish my history classes had covered Thai History" because I've learned myriad fields (mastered none).
TL;DR - It depends on the child. Some will waste it, some will thrive, all need to go to real high school and learn real world social dynamics.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

lol nigga we have a whole community watch thread on this shit:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/unschooling.25550/

I'll take a look at it.

The OP on it seems rather ignorant, bit of a strawman. You're not supposed to unschool by letting little Treyvon or Cletus watch Spongebob all day. You're supposed to take the little geniuses and have them read nonfiction books.

Considering that most of the great intellectuals of history have been self-taught, well...

I mostly think about it because I really do believe I would have been better off if I had never gone to school, and so do my parents now. I learned plenty of stuff in elementary and high school, but none of it was stuff I wouldn't have or couldn't have easily learned on my own and done faster.

I was home schooled from 3rd through through 8th grade. My mothers motto was "I never let schooling interfere with my education" a quote from Mark Twain. Based on my observations of the other home schooled children I assert that I was home schooled for the perfect amount of time. Kids who started two early were always way to family oriented and shy. Kids who never went to real high school ended up being failure of all sorts, dug addicts, selling their children to shady adoption agencies, you name it.
Even within my sibling group it worked out different for each of us. The youngest enjoyed the freedom and grew up dumb but hard working, Its been a long road for them to get to a stable place in life. The eldest studied fine but without social pressure on their looks they grew up fat as hell and cut off anyone who talks about it. Me in the middle, I feel i got the best of it. I spent a few hours a day working on math and science with mom and dad and the rest of the time reading The Great Books. People sometimes ask me what my major was or lament "I wish my history classes had covered Thai History" because I've learned myriad fields (mastered none).
TL;DR - It depends on the child. Some will waste it, some will thrive, all need to go to real high school and learn real world social dynamics.

Ah, this is interesting perspective (as opposed to "lol u need school").

Interesting that the ones who didn't go to high school turned out fucked up. I wonder why. I was best friends with a guy who was home schooled until high school and he was/is weird, in a sheltered-spergy-Christian way, but well-functioning.

I feel like unschooling's effectiveness may be cut into by the lack of natural social environments for children now. The lack of socialization will pretty much always be the biggest problem with not having public/private school. But at the same time, a lot of the social environment that happens there is trash.

Unschooling is ultimately something that will most benefit brilliant/talented children, while public/private school will most benefit average-to-above-average children.

 

[The Pink Panther]

Maybe back then this would work, but in today's society if you let a kid off on his own, once it discovers technology...


it's fucked for life

Homeschooling is better than just complete unschooling, but maybe if a child could adapt to outside surroundings....then...

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Maybe back then this would work, but in today's society if you let a kid off on his own, once it discovers technology...


it's fucked for life

Homeschooling is better than just complete unschooling, but maybe if a child could adapt to outside surroundings....then...

I should clarify that among unschooling there seems to be a multitude of stances. I have a more moderate stance on it, which is advocacy of it for certain groups of people (not everybody) and in a more limited, controlled fashion. There are some parents who will consider their children's 18-hour Fortnite binge unschooling. I think you need to require the kid to study and keep a bit of an eye on them (hard to do if you don't have a family member who stays at the house), with gentle nudges. It's just that you're not teaching them state-structured lessons in the way that home schoolers do. That's the problem with home schooling: an amateur tries to do a professional's job and almost always fails horribly.

Technology, if anything, makes it way better. It's a lot more of a potential distraction, but these days it pretty much is in the schools too. Tech allows us to read information on pretty much everything immediately. The big downside, which I'm all too aware of, is that it encourages a short attention span... skimming articles instead of reading long passages carefully.

 

[nagant 1895]

I should clarify that among unschooling there seems to be a multitude of stances. I have a more moderate stance on it, which is advocacy of it for certain groups of people (not everybody) and in a more limited, controlled fashion. There are some parents who will consider their children's 18-hour Fortnite binge unschooling. I think you need to require the kid to study and keep a bit of an eye on them (hard to do if you don't have a family member who stays at the house), with gentle nudges. It's just that you're not teaching them state-structured lessons in the way that home schoolers do.

In home/unschooling everything is negotiable, it's your parents, what are they going to do? Ground you? you'll just sleep all day and not learn and then when they go to sleep sneak out/on the computer. So what real school provides in contrast is an inescapable lesson on how shitty the world is. Public education teaches us that the world will force you to pass a test or it will ruin your life, the world will force you to attend something against your will or it will ruin your life, the world will expend way more energy that its worth to punish you for breaking its rules.

That's the problem with home schooling: an amateur tries to do a professional's job and almost always fails horribly.

If someone doesn't know everything a kid needs to know to graduate high school or get a GED they shouldn't have had kids to begin with, much less be homeschooling them.

 

[BoingBoingBoi]

i've always been skeptical of homeschooling, as a few of my cousins are homeschooled. one is a total mess. the others are too young to tell.

i can see the idea of allowing the child to pursue their own interests as being an effective way to do it. i'm far more well versed in topics i pursued on my own than i am in those i learned in school, and i'm sure this is true of most everybody. i'd say if you're going to homeschool your kid anyway, it might as well be through unchooling, otherwise then it's just the parent stifling the kid's curiosity rather than a teacher, so why bother?

I was home schooled from 3rd through through 8th grade.

this seems like exactly the right time to be home schooled, and it seems like you've confirmed some of my suspicions. if you miss out on kindergarten and early elementary school, you might miss out on vital, childhood social skills. if you're homeschooled through high school, you might also miss out on vital social skills. later elementary school thru middle school though is usually a shitty nightmare of stupidity that nobody remembers anyway (except maybe for the bad parts), so being homeschooled through it might be a good way to go.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

In home/unschooling everything is negotiable, it's your parents, what are they going to do? Ground you? you'll just sleep all day and not learn and then when they go to sleep sneak out/on the computer. So what real school provides in contrast is an inescapable lesson on how shitty the world is. Public education teaches us that the world will force you to pass a test or it will ruin your life, the world will force you to attend something against your will or it will ruin your life, the world will expend way more energy that its worth to punish you for breaking its rules.


If someone doesn't know everything a kid needs to know to graduate high school or get a GED they shouldn't have had kids to begin with, much less be homeschooling them.

...What were you, raised by hippies? If you don't obey you get whooped and if you keep disobeying you get your shit taken away and beaten.

The argument about real school providing an experience in misery (character-building, basically) reminds me a bit of CGP Grey's "Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant." It's an argument I've heard in different forms, about different things. I'm not particularly fond of it as it always feels more like a retroactive justification. For example (and pardon the hyperbole), imagine if we had a cultural practice of driving a nail in the pinkie of every child at age 10, and we justified it because they need to know pain in case one day they encounter it. Now, there is certainly value in toughening people up. It's just... I'm not convinced that you need to go seeking unpleasantness.

Actually, as I write, I've come up with the perfect counterargument: jobs. High school aged kids can work part-time jobs and elementary kids can work informally (mostly lawn care; unfortunately, the whole lemonade-stand-and-paper-routes practice has been killed off). That's more real-world than school ever is.

The need to produce results is something that families can still very much provide. Shit, it's the family that gives the school their teeth. Children from parents who don't care tend to not perform at school regardless of the consequences. Very common behavior among the low-character poor. Like, when a kid makes an F on a test, what's usually their worry? Is it "oh shit, Mrs. Teacher is going to be mad" or "oh shit, my parents are going to kill me"? But more than anything, most unschooled kids I've read about went on to go to college. They had to pass the ACT the same as everybody else. They usually pick it all up along the way, intentionally or not.

i've always been skeptical of homeschooling, as a few of my cousins are homeschooled. one is a total mess. the others are too young to tell.

i can see the idea of allowing the child to pursue their own interests as being an effective way to do it. i'm far more well versed in topics i pursued on my own than i am in those i learned in school, and i'm sure this is true of most everybody. i'd say if you're going to homeschool your kid anyway, it might as well be through unchooling, otherwise then it's just the parent stifling the kid's curiosity rather than a teacher, so why bother?



this seems like exactly the right time to be home schooled, and it seems like you've confirmed some of my suspicions. if you miss out on kindergarten and early elementary school, you might miss out on vital, childhood social skills. if you're homeschooled through high school, you might also miss out on vital social skills. later elementary school thru middle school though is usually a shitty nightmare of stupidity that nobody remembers anyway (except maybe for the bad parts), so being homeschooled through it might be a good way to go.

What's the story there? I mean, I don't like homeschooling myself, I think it's garbage. The difference between unschooling and homeschooling is curriculum. If Momma is teaching the child just like the teacher would have in school, it really is pointless.

The biggest problem is that most every homeschooled kid I've met has been homeschooled for religious reasons, which means that parents are religious nutters and usually living Dunning-Krugers.

I also doubt that people of below-average or maybe even average intelligence would have much to gain from unschooling. It's more of a matter of needing different approaches for different kinds of people.

 

[nagant 1895]

...What were you, raised by hippies? If you don't obey you get whooped and if you keep disobeying you get your shit taken away and beaten.

It takes emotional energy to beat your own child, the one you loved so much you dropped out of your career to home school them. It rarely came to beatings but when it did I never backed down, flip flops, belts, spatulas, maglite flashlights. if I had more stubbornness than my parents did emotional energy I might not win but I could bring them to the table.

Actually, as I write, I've come up with the perfect counterargument: jobs. High school aged kids can work part-time jobs and elementary kids can work informally (mostly lawn care; unfortunately, the whole lemonade-stand-and-paper-routes practice has been killed off). That's more real-world than school ever is.

Jobs would be great but even at a job everything is negotiable, even more so than between family members because either side can walk away. It doesn't teach that lesson about the inevitable or ineffable nature of dealing with, say, the state. The state will not negotiate if you were running a red light or if you paid your taxes. The state gives school teeth because, at least where I live, truancy results in your parents getting straight up arrested. Failure to pass a test results in not moving on to the next grade. It's hardy an issue what the parents think or do because when the take any action at all the aim is almost always to help the child. It's the state that will ruin a kids life.

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

Kids are retarded and so is this idea.
This is almost as bad as letting a kid decide to transition.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

It takes emotional energy to beat your own child, the one you loved so much you dropped out of your career to home school them. It rarely came to beatings but when it did I never backed down, flip flops, belts, spatulas, maglite flashlights.

Jobs would be great but even at a job everything is negotiable, even more so than between family members because either side can walk away. It doesn't teach that lesson about the inevitable or ineffable nature of dealing with, say, the state. The state will not negotiate if you were running a red light or if you paid your taxes. The state gives school teeth because, at least where I live, truancy results in your parents getting straight up arrested. Failure to pass a test results in not moving on to the next grade. It's hardy an issue what the parents think or do because when the take any action at all the aim is almost always to help the child. It's the state the will ruin a kids life.

TBH, I was only whooped maybe twice in my life that I can actually remember. I just never acted up to start with so punishing me wasn't really relevant anyways. That homeschooled friend of mine had parents who'd whoop him frequently and he was apparently too stupid to change his behavior. So that's an admission that I'm not hardly an expert on that aspect.

I'm legit curious how many kids out there have parents who don't care but the kids still put in some effort so they don't get held back or otherwise screwed with by the school.

Kids are exceptional and so is this idea.
This is almost as bad as letting a kid decide to transition.

> Looks at Andrew Carnegie
> One of the greatest industrialists in world history
> Created the US steel industry, made a fantastic fortune, gave most of it away out of generosity
> Considered a model for titans of industry even to this day
> Didn't have a formal education
> Taught himself through hard work, self-motivation, reading books in a library

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

TBH, I was only whooped maybe twice in my life that I can actually remember. I just never acted up to start with so punishing me wasn't really relevant anyways. That homeschooled friend of mine had parents who'd whoop him frequently and he was apparently too stupid to change his behavior. So that's an admission that I'm not hardly an expert on that aspect.

I'm legit curious how many kids out there have parents who don't care but the kids still put in some effort so they don't get held back or otherwise screwed with by the school.



> Looks at Andrew Carnegie
> One of the greatest industrialists in world history
> Created the US steel industry, made a fantastic fortune, gave most of it away out of generosity
> Considered a model for titans of industry even to this day
> Didn't have a formal education
> Taught himself through hard work, self-motivation, reading books in a library

Yeah, the exception is not the rule. Most normal kids aren't driven enough to do that. And again, nearly all kids are retarded.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Yeah, the exception is not the rule. Most normal kids aren't driven enough to do that. And again, nearly all kids are exceptional.

Which is why you don’t unschool “most normal kids”...

 

[nagant 1895]

I'm legit curious how many kids out there have parents who don't care but the kids still put in some effort so they don't get held back or otherwise screwed with by the school.

It depends on how well the kids peer group is doing and if they have decent teachers. I've seen plenty of kids of convicted felons doing just fine in school because their friends value good grades and they take their cues there. On the other hand parents can work their hearts out trying to help a child but if they child is being socially shunned for studying and performing they'll regress to the mean. That's one of the good arguments for homeschooling is being able to control/provide your child with a intellectually rewarding peer group.

 

[byuu]

The whole point of school is to teach the kids the shit they don't want to learn.
Kids already learn the stuff they're really into without it.

 

[sadbird]

In home/unschooling everything is negotiable, it's your parents, what are they going to do? Ground you? you'll just sleep all day and not learn and then when they go to sleep sneak out/on the computer. So what real school provides in contrast is an inescapable lesson on how shitty the world is. Public education teaches us that the world will force you to pass a test or it will ruin your life, the world will force you to attend something against your will or it will ruin your life, the world will expend way more energy that its worth to punish you for breaking its rules.


If someone doesn't know everything a kid needs to know to graduate high school or get a GED they shouldn't have had kids to begin with, much less be homeschooling them.

A lot of parents already do a fantastic job of teaching their children how bad the world is. But sure public education does it too, by rewarding students for not doing any work, getting credit despite lack of participation, and letting everyone graduate so long as they showed up at least half of the year. Getting a HS diploma is the bare minimum for getting a mcjob, nothing more.
In anycase, I would agree that home/unschooling probably works best in tandem with parents who give a damn and make efforts to expose you to things and develop useful skills.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I think unschooling, like homeschooling can be great or poor.

Curiosity is a great engine for natural learning, but there can also be great value in prepared lessons. Like guided tours, the material and journey may be fixed, but there is great value in learning some of the fixed things.

There is value in developing grit to study what you don't like.

Above all I think (like most modern schooling) it neglects giving guidance to kids. Kids may have boundless enthusiasm, but they don't have an idea what the world is like. It is a bit of a paradox though, because teachers and parents don't know what the world will be like either at the time the kid grows up into adulthood.

But they do have some idea of the incoming challenges and what the world is like. And they shouldn't renege their duty to instill wisdom.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

There is an enormous difference between "you homeschool your kids and adapt their curriculum to their interests" and "you let your kids run around all day every day for years playing games and climbing trees and call it an education".

I think that with a good family situation and parents who are able to pay attention and actually do the job, homeschooling can be perfectly fine, provided proper socialization is also taught in some other ways. Unschooling puts the responsibility of planning for a future and learning things on the back of a 10 year old who has no concept of "need" vs. "want", what are the odds a child will actually sit down and learn things that might seem boring to him but are necessary? The Unschooling thread we have is full of fucking teenagers who are unable to read and do simple math because that shit was boring and their parents didn't think sitting the kid down with some fucking flash cards was a valid sacrifice of the child's free will to make for the sake of their future.