What if the M4 can be replaced?

[Fuzzy Wuzzy]

I'm a military nut though I have no military experience. M4 assault rifles are great modular guns but they jam alot in certain combat environments. If you could replace the M4 standard issue assault rifle for the American military what would it be? OICW, XM8, REC7, XCR, or ACR? We're talking about American assault rifles that can replace the M4. Yes the OICW and XM8 are collaborative projects between America and Germany and they were once produced in the United States. I personally would say the ACR because it is not only an ambidextrous gun but also a very modular weapon with very low stoppages and can virtually be used in any environment. Not to mention the ACR comes in various calibers and can even use the 7.62 rounds from AK47s. Hence ACR means Adaptive Combat Rifle. What do you say can replace the M4 for American soldiers?

 

[CatParty]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=628

 

[The Dude]

The XCR AND REC7 are boutique guns for enthusiasts. I used to own an XCR and knew the guys at Robarms personally, including Alex Robinson. There is no way they could produce the number of firearms to supply the military. The OICW is a dead project and the only thing to come from it was the XM25. The whole unit with the rifle module was massive and heavy and the barrel for the rifle was shorter than the M4 and offered poorer ballistics. The ACR may be an option since Remington defense is offering it, but if the performance of the Bushmaster version of the ACR is any indication then it will have some problems that will need to be worked out.

Honestly our military should drop the "must be an American design" mentality and go for a proven foreign design like the Israeli Tavor, which is probably the best rifle out right now in terms of ruggedness, reliability, and functionality.

We'll probably adopt a gas piston variant of the current rifle like an LWRC or the HK and if we went from the 14.5" barrel of the M4 to a 16" or 18" barrel it would solve many of the terminal ballistics problems we've been having. Also dropping penetrator ammunition for traditional ammunition would help immensely and even adoption of a larger bullet like the 300 Blackout, which is the same case as the current 5.56mm punched out to 7.62mm and only requires the rifle to be rebarreled.

 

[hellbound]

Honestly, the reliability of the M16/M4 platform is not poor if properly maintained. We have the most well-trained military in the world and it consists entirely of professionals, not conscripts, so teaching them to maintain their weapons is not asking too much. Most servicemembers I've heard say it performs well, though torture tests say otherwise. But torture tests don't necessarily transfer to real-world use.

It is highly modular and adaptable, accurate, and has countless accessories for every mission you could ask. Barrel length, caliber, optics, suppressors, grips and bipods, and stocks can all be changed out for the mission you need and your own personal comfort because the accessories are already there.

Additionally, the usage readily transfers to the .308 or other higher-power versions which can be accurized for use as a designated marksman rifle, meaning you don't have to learn a new system to switch roles if needed.

At most we should switch from direct-impingement to piston to reduce fouling. For our current and foreseeable missions, the M16/M4 are excellent choices in arms.

 

[A-Stump]

I wish the current overbloated military would be replaced strictly by a homeland defense force Oh, and that their spending was dramatically cut.

 

[CatParty]

Shouldn't this go in the gun thread?

 

[ON 190]

I think the M4 should be replaced with a Slander Ray. That is all.

 

[exball]

I think the M4 should be replaced with a Slander Ray. That is all.

Is that so, Mr. Cly Cash.

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy]

Shouldn't this go in the gun thread?

No because this thread is more specific since it talks about replacing the M4. The gun thread is a general thread that talks about any guns. That's just my input in this.

 

[CatParty]

oh then the government shouldn't be wasting money on weapons.

 

[ON 190]

oh then the government shouldn't be wasting money on weapons.

MAH TAX DOLLARS

 

[The Dude]

If any 100% new weapon system were to be adopted it would be the SCAR. It's already in limited service with the Army Rangers and other USSOCOM units, but more than likely it will be a retrofit to modernize the current M16 family of weapons with a piston system.

 

[Foulmouth]

Buy your shitty Steyr's back from Australia and use them.

 

[The Dude]

Buy your shitty Steyr's back from Australia and use them.

What's wrong with the Steyr? I used to have an AUG and it was one of the best rifles I've owned. I'd still have it if I didn't have to sell it when I was unemployed.

 

[Foulmouth]

We used them in the army reserve and I wasn't impressed, not very accurate.
I was told that the reserves weapons aren't maintained so well so that could be it.(I am big on self maintenance but they get locked up and handed out at random)

 

[The Dude]

We used them in the army reserve and I wasn't impressed, not very accurate.
I was told that the reserves weapons aren't maintained so well so that could be it.(I am big on self maintenance but they get locked up and handed out at random)

Yeah, a poorly maintained weapon is an ineffective weapon. When the Aussies changed over from the L1A1 (Brit FAL) to the F88 (Aussie AUG) they actually had to change the requirements for marksmanship scoring because everyone was scoring at expert. The AUG is a tough, reliable, accurate weapon if taken care of properly. And, of course, the reserves get all the hand-me-down shit instead of shiny new kit.

I personally wouldn't want to take any 5.56x45mm weapon into open battle, especially the 62gr ammo everyone uses now(it's made to penetrate body armor and it's performance against unarmored targets is poor) . Urban battle is one thing, but anything past about 200 meters I want a 7.62x51mmNATO rifle. I'd love to see the FN Mk17 SCAR get wider adoption or some other 7.62mmNATO rifle.

 

[Foulmouth]

We used them in the army reserve and I wasn't impressed, not very accurate.
I was told that the reserves weapons aren't maintained so well so that could be it.(I am big on self maintenance but they get locked up and handed out at random)

Yeah, a poorly maintained weapon is an ineffective weapon. When the Aussies changed over from the L1A1 (Brit FAL) to the F88 (Aussie AUG) they actually had to change the requirements for marksmanship scoring because everyone was scoring at expert. The AUG is a tough, reliable, accurate weapon if taken care of properly. And, of course, the reserves get all the hand-me-down shit instead of shiny new kit.

I personally wouldn't want to take any 5.56x45mm weapon into open battle, especially the 62gr ammo everyone uses now(it's made to penetrate body armor and it's performance against unarmored targets is poor) . Urban battle is one thing, but anything past about 200 meters I want a 7.62x51mmNATO rifle. I'd love to see the FN Mk17 SCAR get wider adoption or some other 7.62mmNATO rifle.

A mate of mine has a near antique Lee Enfield I shoot when I visit his farm, LOVE that fuckin gun.
Bit of a kick but bloody accurate for 30 odd year old gun.Both he and his dad are mental with maintenance .Gotta respect the machine.

 

[The Dude]

We used them in the army reserve and I wasn't impressed, not very accurate.
I was told that the reserves weapons aren't maintained so well so that could be it.(I am big on self maintenance but they get locked up and handed out at random)

Yeah, a poorly maintained weapon is an ineffective weapon. When the Aussies changed over from the L1A1 (Brit FAL) to the F88 (Aussie AUG) they actually had to change the requirements for marksmanship scoring because everyone was scoring at expert. The AUG is a tough, reliable, accurate weapon if taken care of properly. And, of course, the reserves get all the hand-me-down shit instead of shiny new kit.

I personally wouldn't want to take any 5.56x45mm weapon into open battle, especially the 62gr ammo everyone uses now(it's made to penetrate body armor and it's performance against unarmored targets is poor) . Urban battle is one thing, but anything past about 200 meters I want a 7.62x51mmNATO rifle. I'd love to see the FN Mk17 SCAR get wider adoption or some other 7.62mmNATO rifle.

A mate of mine has a near antique Lee Enfield I shoot when I visit his farm, LOVE that fuckin gun.
Bit of a kick but bloody accurate for 30 odd year old gun.Both he and his dad are mental with maintenance .Gotta respect the machine.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Enfield. I love the rifle, but it hates me. Everyone I've tried to buy has had problems, usually with the bolt.

 

[ON 190]

I have a love/hate relationship with the Enfield. I love the rifle, but it hates me. Everyone I've tried to buy has had problems, usually with the bolt.

Go buy that nuclear warhead, you damned maniac.

 

[The Dude]

I have a love/hate relationship with the Enfield. I love the rifle, but it hates me. Everyone I've tried to buy has had problems, usually with the bolt.

Go buy that nuclear warhead, you damned maniac.

Nah, I'll stick with those "nasty, evil, scary looking uh-salt rifles" that all the liberals are a-scared of.