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I can only find modernized versions online
Where do I purchase a 1662 Book of Common Prayer, or subsequent editions which preserve the Elisabethian language of the BCP?
- Thread starter Esau
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BootlegPopeye
kiwifarms.net
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Do you have about 1700 dollars?
historicbibles.com
Common Prayer + NT - 1662 - BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER + NEW TESTAMENT + THE WHOLE BOOK OF PSALMS - Historic Bibles & Engravings
1662 BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER + NEW TESTAMENT + THE WHOLE BOOK OF PSALMS. Octavo. V.RARE. Genuine First Edition 1662 CAMBRIDGE ed., rarer than the London ed. Printed by John Field for Cambridge University, 1662. NT Reference: Herbert 682. RULED-IN-RED throughout. BCP Title in facsimile and lacking...
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- Jul 23, 2022
It's not in my price range. I might be able to eventually afford it, thoughDo you have about 1700 dollars?
View attachment 3574997
Common Prayer + NT - 1662 - BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER + NEW TESTAMENT + THE WHOLE BOOK OF PSALMS - Historic Bibles & Engravings
1662 BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER + NEW TESTAMENT + THE WHOLE BOOK OF PSALMS. Octavo. V.RARE. Genuine First Edition 1662 CAMBRIDGE ed., rarer than the London ed. Printed by John Field for Cambridge University, 1662. NT Reference: Herbert 682. RULED-IN-RED throughout. BCP Title in facsimile and lacking...
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I think they sell this at my local bookstore, although I'm still enclined to look elsewhere. If other options are unavailable, I will buy this Oxford Classics print of the BCP 1611.
It is partially because paperbacks cannot lie smooth on a desk, which is important for prayer, and because Oxford Classics often suffer from poor binding.
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- Jul 4, 2022
You could use this one as a reference to check other hardcopy editions as well. I think they sell a hardcover version too but it's quite a bit more expensive.
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Rare book nerd here. I actually had one of those at one point (sold years ago, sorry, otherwise I'd be happy to offer a reasonable price to a Kiwifren). My usual hunting ground for antique books is AbeBooks. There are a lot of retarded dealers on there who blindly follow stuff that's been lol-priced by autopricing bots and left to rot, but if you're patient and willing to ship internationally if need be, you can still get some good deals. Depending on your budget and the exact details of what you're willing to accept in an edition, it could take you some years, but you will likely catch your prey eventually.
You can also check eBay, but most of what's up there is either trash condition, or priced wildly unreasonably by sellers who don't understand that the appraised value is almost never the market value. Still, once in a while, a good deal will turn up.
Amazon is 98% worthless for actual antiques, as most legit dealers don't sell there, and prices are heavily botted.
If you have access to a bookbinder who will work for reasonable rates, a trick is to buy what's graded as a "binding copy" -- those are specimens with missing or trashed bindings (or page sewing), but with otherwise Fair or better page blocks. If you're lucky enough to find a binding copy with strong sewing, and you're willing to put a non-fancy cover on it that's glued to the spine, rather than corded through (called "cased bindings" or "wraps", NB that the latter are usually a type of softcover, but not always -- usage isn't consistent), you can really save some money, and have the satisfaction of rescuing a book that is harder to sell and at risk of eventually being destroyed.
I noticed you said that the ability to open the book fully flat is critical to you -- I would warn you before you spend a ton of money on a 300+ year old copy that most of those will not be able to lie completely flat, especially not without having to force it and potentially damaging the spine permanently. Some of that is due to fragility and age drying and tightening up the organic materials its made from, and some of it is due to either intentional style or a lack of skill on the part of the sewer and binder who put it together in the past. Out of everything I've handled, only my copy of Aquinas's Summa Theologiae from the early 1600s will willingly lie completely flat, and that's likely because it's a large-sized specimen that appears to have been bound for church use 400 years ago. Books sewn and bound in such a way as to lie fully flat typically command a premium, as they're the minority and usually quarto sized or larger.
A much more attainable, safer (to the book), and cheaper solution, is to buy a cradle for whichever copy you end up getting your hands on. Finding copies that will lie mostly open, but not fully flat, are much more widespread (cheaper), and it's better for the book itself. They come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and materials, but in general they look like this:
One more point while I'm rambling -- antique books do require maintenance and special handling. If you've never owned any before and want tips, feel free to ask and I'll gladly sperg. Or you can ping the Special Collection department of your nearest university library and ask them for advice, too.
JFC, those have gone up in value since the mid 2000s, if they ever actually sell at that price. I saw the market starting to rise about 10 years ago, but still. Glad most of what I'm after these days isn't north of 250 years old, and if it is, it's a manuscript and fuck that market, facsimiles all the way for those.
You can also check eBay, but most of what's up there is either trash condition, or priced wildly unreasonably by sellers who don't understand that the appraised value is almost never the market value. Still, once in a while, a good deal will turn up.
Amazon is 98% worthless for actual antiques, as most legit dealers don't sell there, and prices are heavily botted.
If you have access to a bookbinder who will work for reasonable rates, a trick is to buy what's graded as a "binding copy" -- those are specimens with missing or trashed bindings (or page sewing), but with otherwise Fair or better page blocks. If you're lucky enough to find a binding copy with strong sewing, and you're willing to put a non-fancy cover on it that's glued to the spine, rather than corded through (called "cased bindings" or "wraps", NB that the latter are usually a type of softcover, but not always -- usage isn't consistent), you can really save some money, and have the satisfaction of rescuing a book that is harder to sell and at risk of eventually being destroyed.
I noticed you said that the ability to open the book fully flat is critical to you -- I would warn you before you spend a ton of money on a 300+ year old copy that most of those will not be able to lie completely flat, especially not without having to force it and potentially damaging the spine permanently. Some of that is due to fragility and age drying and tightening up the organic materials its made from, and some of it is due to either intentional style or a lack of skill on the part of the sewer and binder who put it together in the past. Out of everything I've handled, only my copy of Aquinas's Summa Theologiae from the early 1600s will willingly lie completely flat, and that's likely because it's a large-sized specimen that appears to have been bound for church use 400 years ago. Books sewn and bound in such a way as to lie fully flat typically command a premium, as they're the minority and usually quarto sized or larger.
A much more attainable, safer (to the book), and cheaper solution, is to buy a cradle for whichever copy you end up getting your hands on. Finding copies that will lie mostly open, but not fully flat, are much more widespread (cheaper), and it's better for the book itself. They come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and materials, but in general they look like this:
One more point while I'm rambling -- antique books do require maintenance and special handling. If you've never owned any before and want tips, feel free to ask and I'll gladly sperg. Or you can ping the Special Collection department of your nearest university library and ask them for advice, too.
Do you have about 1700 dollars?
Common Prayer + NT - 1662 - BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER + NEW TESTAMENT + THE WHOLE BOOK OF PSALMS - Historic Bibles & Engravings
1662 BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER + NEW TESTAMENT + THE WHOLE BOOK OF PSALMS. Octavo. V.RARE. Genuine First Edition 1662 CAMBRIDGE ed., rarer than the London ed. Printed by John Field for Cambridge University, 1662. NT Reference: Herbert 682. RULED-IN-RED throughout. BCP Title in facsimile and lacking...
JFC, those have gone up in value since the mid 2000s, if they ever actually sell at that price. I saw the market starting to rise about 10 years ago, but still. Glad most of what I'm after these days isn't north of 250 years old, and if it is, it's a manuscript and fuck that market, facsimiles all the way for those.
BootlegPopeye
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 18, 2021
They get really expensive before 1700, I've noticed. You can get religious tracts from the 1700s for a few hundred, but any popular/well-known work from before 1700 is going to be 4 figures now, if not 5 figures. I'd love to own some of the Catholic religious tracts written when Catholicism was illegal in England, but we're talking just a few dozen (or fewer) copies in existence.
Early American printed works are also pricey, like the 1785 Douhy-Rheims bible printed in Philadelphia.
Early American printed works are also pricey, like the 1785 Douhy-Rheims bible printed in Philadelphia.
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- Jul 23, 2022
Sorry, I was referring to an unrevised BCP which preserved it's distinctive archaeisms. I am just hoping to purchase a modern reprinting, made by one of the better Anglican synods so that I could use it for prayer. I've found that Anglicans have very good devotational materials.
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It seems there was a facsimile edition printed in 1844:
A typeset edition in 1892:
(scans online here: https://archive.org/details/BookOfCommonPrayer/page/n1/mode/2up)
A modern reprint in 1962:
And so on.
A typeset edition in 1892:
(scans online here: https://archive.org/details/BookOfCommonPrayer/page/n1/mode/2up)
A modern reprint in 1962:
And so on.
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- Aug 8, 2021
No worries. In that case, I'd recommend looking into whether there are any facsimile editions of the unrevised BCP you're interested in. High-quality facsimiles have become increasingly common in the last 50 or so years, as the tech needed for that process has improved dramatically and the antique originals have become largely unobtanium. It used to be mostly limited to replicating manuscripts, since they're unique and extremely scarce, but the scope's broadened quite a bit. The BCP is famous enough and has been the subject of some comparative studies in the last 30-40 years, so I'd be optimistic there might be a professional facsimile that would be just what you want.
Worst case scenario, you could always grab one of the public scans that's available, and talk to a print shop about producing something for you on acid-free paper. That would get you something that would have archival pages, and you could bind to taste -- even just using a three ring binder of choice that would open fully flat.
Dug up a couple of links that might interest you:
Facsimile of the 1662 edition, based off the famous John Baskerville imprints of the 18th century. Links to additional variations if you want to do comparative studies.
Church of England's own reproduction of the 1662 BCP, based off the Baskerville imprints.
Eyre and Spottiswood facsimile of the 1662 BCP (printed 1891) -- Ebook -- Worldcat Entry
And it looks like @Kosher Dill has some more facsimile prints for you posted while I was writing this.
Yuuuuup. Early American works, as you mentioned, were soul-destroyingly expensive even 20 years ago. I remember doing a spit-take seeing what an Isaiah Thomas imprint that came to market sometime in the late 90s/early 2000s sold for. The Library of Congress has some pretty neat online exhibits for early American printing, if you haven't seen them already.
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I did have questions on maintenance. As I have at least one volume that might be considered antique (technically two, but they're different editions of the same book). It's the 6th edition of John Guilim's A Display of Heraldry, published in 1724. It's a rather large book, and it's missing the backing to its spine. The covers are entirely removed from it, and I've noticed that, when handling it, an orange-colored substance rubs off. I'm guessing that's probably the remains of some sort of glue or adhesive that's dried over time. Regardless, what would you suggest, in terms of preservation?
Thankfully, aside from the issue with the boards and backing, the spine itself is still intact, and one can even open it without issue. Though I still avoid touching it, for obvious reasons.
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- Aug 8, 2021
I looked that one up, the little wood engravings for the different coats of arms are beautiful. With that combination of the large size and pre-1800 date, I have a good idea of what that book is like in the hand. Nice soft cotton or linen rag paper, generous margins, and comfortable type. I bet it's a lovely piece. Good find!
And you're getting an orange residue? I've got a good idea what that likely is. Depending on exactly its color, texture, and what its shedding from, there are two main possibilities.
Option #1. If its coming from contact with any remnants of the leather clinging to the spine, or any leather remaining on the board, that's "red rot". Happens when leather with a high acid content starts giving up the ghost. If this is the case, I'm not surprised to hear you're running into it on a book from this era -- there were a couple of decorative color treatments popular in the 1700s and 1800s that involved a lot of acid in their application (usually sulfuric or nitric) and not all of the residue could be flushed from the skin afterwards. If there's a fair bit of leather still clinging to those boards, I bet it's this soft spongy, flaky, orange/red mass as a whole if the decay is advanced. If it's not late stage, you'll mostly pick up residue on your hands when touching areas with more wear, usually the edges of the boards and the rib-like ridges on the spine from the cords. Common problem, and extremely annoying.
- Bad news -- Red rot is incurable, and no amount of the original binding leather can be preserved -- if it's started visibly in one spot, it's going on under the surface everywhere. The redness is actually powdered rust, produced by the chemical reaction between the acid residue impregnating the leather and the organic salts inside. The rusty residue is annoying as hell and gets on everything and stains.
- Good news -- Not a serious health hazard (unless you decide to huff it or lick it I guess), just messy and obnoxious. And unless a ton of acid has leached into the sewing holding the page quires together (not too likely), there's a good chance the page block sewing is still sound and wouldn't need to be redone if you decide to get this rebound. Saves a lot of $$$$.
- Bad news -- None, really. If you choose to get this rebound, that old spine glue would need to be stripped off anyway.
- Good news -- Not a biohazard. These glues aren't particularly acidic, so it shouldn't threaten the sewing in the page block as it decays. It can only annoy and make some mess.
Short-term, I would recommend snugly wrapping the book in unprinted, acid-free paper, a little like you're wrapping a gift, and then keeping it in a box or stiff slipcover. This will help protect the outermost pages of the page block from being bumped and possibly detached, which makes long-term preservation and restoration easier and cheaper. If the leather clinging to the boards doesn't have red rot and isn't shedding dust/residue, you can wrap them in the same bundle with the page block for extra support. If they are shedding red rot dust, I'd wrap the boards individually before packing them in with the rest of the book, to avoid the risk of them staining the pages. This wrap and box technique is how most Special Collections departments I've visited have stored books with their boards off.
If you want to make it less messy to read and there's some still-present but too damaged to save leather on the spine, you can put a few *tiny* dabs of a wheat-based paste on that leather which is already doomed (keep it away from any part of the pages or sewing), and then attach a piece of acid-free paper so it covers the spine. (Wheat pastes are easily dissolved, and any bookbinder who's equipped to restore antiques will definitely have the solvents and knowledge needed for dealing with paste.) That'll keep it from staining your hand or anything you put it down on while reading. Given the reference-type nature of this book, I'm guessing its not a goal to curl up with it on the couch for hours on end, so I'd probably skip disturbing it at all and just put down some paper to rest it on/between my hand and the spine, and wash my hands after handling it.
Long term, you'll want to look into getting a new binding on to this lovely old book. With the page sewing sounding like it's probably still good, that should significantly reduce the cost of most options, and increase the pool of people who can do the job. And if the actual boards themselves are still good, they may even be able to be reused, especially if they're actual wooden boards rather than massboard (not likely, I don't think I've handled anything with real wood boards that was later than about 1620, but there's still a chance) -- rotten leather can usually be stripped off without wrecking the boards. A cased binding will be the cheapest move, a corded binding will be stronger, but pricier. Unless the book is extremely heavy (like huge dictionary weight), a cased binding is usually perfectly adequate for a personal library, and definitely beats no binding at all.
The economical but durable workhorse solution is getting what's called a "library binding" done, either cased or corded. This covers the book with a heavy buckram cloth that's almost indestructible, and if there's some amount of leather that's not rotten and you request it, some binders will even try to preserve what they can and overlay the fragments onto the buckram, salvaging some hint of the book's original appearance. Not as pretty as leather, but it won't nuke your wallet. There are also a pretty decent number of binders who can do this, and your nearest university's library Special Collections department should be able to refer you to someone trustworthy.
If the interior of the book is excellent and the monetary or sentimental value is enough to you, you can also look into partial or full leather bindings, although your wallet will cry. Haven't checked on what some binders charge on that in 15 years, but even back then, that involved a lot of zeroes. Sucks, because it's always nicest to restore something to a historically-accurate state.
Hope something in the above sperging helped, or was at least entertaining. If you want to know anything else, feel free to ask!