Why are very old games weird about their sequels?

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Pissmaster

Pissmaster

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So here's a strange subject I've wondered for a while. Old games, primarily from the early 80s, have an odd trend where their sequeling is very weird, which has persisted to this day. Let me list some examples:

Pac-Man: Everyone knows Pac-Man, he's the yellow puck that was originally named Puck-Man but changed because vandals would change it to Fuck-Man, and he eats all the dots. What's the sequel? Ms. Pac-Man? Well, that was a bootleg variant that changed enough in the game to where it was eventually made official, in a convoluted way, but eventually, a game properly named "Pac-Man 2" was released. It was a very strange point-and-click adventure where you point Pac-Man around and shoot a slingshot at him, or other things in the environment, to push him towards your goal.
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But it's not originally named Pac-Man 2, it's called "Hello! Pac-Man" in Japan. There is no such thing as a Pac-Man 3, but there is a Pac-Man World 3, a sequel in the Pac-Man World series. There's Super Pac-Man, Jr. Pac-Man, Professor Pac-Man, Pac-Man 256, Pac-Man Red Bull, but no Pac-Man 3.

Then there's Frogger.
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Frogger's been rereleased on everything, and has the honor of being the final game released in America for Super Nintendo, with a goofy stretched label:
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But there is a Frogger 2. Three of them:
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In fact, the Wikipedia page for Frogger conveniently lists off every single Frogger sequel:

35 games in that list, but not a single one called "Frogger 3". Jeez.

Tetris is another great example. That game's got such an autistic following, it has two wikis: https://tetris.wiki/ and https://harddrop.com/wiki/Tetris_Wiki. Needless to say, there are a shitload of Tetris games. But is there a Tetris 2? Of course. Two of them.
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But how about a Tetris 3? Does that exist? Well, yeah, kinda. Tetris 2 + Bombliss got an enhanced edition for the Super Famicom, which had a sequel of its own, Super Tetris 3.
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Speaking of which, the most popular subseries among Tetrisfags is Arika's The Grand Master series, which has a trilogy of its own, ending with the very bizarrely named "Tetris: The Grand Master 3: Terror Instinct"
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Why is it called Terror Instinct? Probably because it's just Tetris, but really, really hard. By the way, there's no Tetris 4 of any kind - there is a Grand Master 4, playable at a trade show in Japan in 2009, though due to licensing issues, it was never released, and is today considered lost media.

So what's the point of this thread? Well, it's a weird quirk in gaming I've noticed, but never seen anyone really discuss to any length. At some point, game released became much more linear - spinoffs have always been commonplace, but unlike the games I listed, series like Super Mario and Mega Man have clear cut mainline series that you can generally trust. If you don't know what to buy, just buy the latest in the mainline series. If you like that, consider dipping into the back catalog, or try a spinoff. Lots of older games just don't seem to have that aspect, and never adopted it once it went mainstream. To this day they're all very disjointed series, just kinda popping up randomly on whatever platform they want, with no clear-cut signs of quality. It's really odd.

I've listed enough, but another series that fits is Lode Runner, and just, look at this campy cover. Holy shit @Dom Cruise get in here:
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Master of Orion 2 is so different from the original that it's like a completely different game. But that's not bad as it's (one of) the best "Civilization in space" games.

(also I think of early 8-bit games as "very old" rather than '90s 16-bit games)
 
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I had that Pac-Man 2 game in the late 90's. I bought it in Best Buy when they were doing a clearance of all their old SNES and Genesis games. It was a real disappointment. I didn't care for it. It's nothing like the original Pac-Man. I think they were trying to make a game that would appeal to new audience and instead they just made a game that isn't very good. The older people that grew up playing Pac-Man probably didn't play video games anymore and the people who were playing video games were all younger and didn't know who or what Pac-Man even is, I would say the same thing with Frogger 2. Just an attempt at modernizing an old game for new players. To keep up with the times.
 
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Contra III is the fifth Contra game or something. Some modern games do this too, Assassins Creed III and IV are the fifth and sixth games.

The greatest sequel name ever is the fourth Call of Duty: Black Ops game being Black Ops IIII because it's so stupid I still can't believe they did it and somehow got away with never explaining why.

edit: Oh wait, someone actually did the research instead of being a fag and apparently it's technically fine according to the British Museum, turns out I'm the stupid one and Bobby Kotick is the smartest man in human history instead:
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Muttley? said:
yep doki doki panic is super mario bros 2

and who was responsible for that?
the Japs.
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It's worse than just the SMB2 shit. Donkey Kong -> Donkey Kong Jr -> Mario Bros -> Wrecking Crew -> Super Mario Bros.
The Advance series is autistic as fuck, too. Super Mario Advance: Super Mario Bros 2 -> Super Mario Advance 2: Super Mario World -> Super Mario Advance 3: Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island -> Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros 3
As is the New Super Mario series. New Super Mario Bros -> New Super Mario Bros Wii -> New Super Mario Bros 2 -> New Super Mario Bros U
So yes, blame the nips.
 
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They do it when the IP that isnt a huge pile of money-making, but still is well known.
They give the making of the game to some side developer, get a mediocre game wich makes mediocre money and name it something like "Pac-man: Origins".
This way they still make money, but distance themselves from the game in case its bad.
But there are exceptions, off course. Fallout: New Vegas is way, way better than Fallout 3 in every aspect. It's better than Fallout 4 in almost every aspect.
 
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Clock towers a good example. I'm sure the first wasnt released in the west so when they released the second in the west, they just called it clock tower. Then they released the third one and that was called clock tower 2.

I'm on my phone so feel free to correct me if talking shite
 
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Also got sega games which are totally different games despite having the same name such as Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on master system and genesis.

Ys games keep redoing main line games, Ys: The Oath in Felghana is a redo of Ys III: Wanderers from Ys, however they have little in common outside some story ideas. also have two YS 4s, Ys IV: Mask of the Sun and Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys.
 
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I always assumed a big factor was the nature of games back then. They were not really built with sequels in mind and when they got them they were often pretty different, maybe too different to call a proper sequel. That might be why, for example, Super Mario Bros wasn't called Mario Bro 2 instead.

The game industry was still sort of the wild west back then too, and there was a lot of creativity. They weren't just churning out safe sequels as much, though naturally that always existed. Things became more, idk, streamlined. There's a word with a more negative connotation I can't muster.

Of course, then again Donkey Kong 3 exists despite being nothing like any other DK or Mario game, so who knows. They were probably just trying to cash in with it in that case.
 
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The most common recurring explanations for these phenomena I've noticed:
1. Localization fuckery
2. Recycling games due to time crunches
3. Poorly thought out timelines which were either made up as they went along or branched off into a convoluted clusterfuck of spin-offs and subseries


Edit:
Cloaca Rimjob said:
Clock towers a good example. I'm sure the first wasnt released in the west so when they released the second in the west, they just called it clock tower. Then they released the third one and that was called clock tower 2.

I'm on my phone so feel free to correct me if talking shite
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This is correct. Clock Tower isn't actually that bad in terms of sequel naming; it was really just the offset of 1 from Clock Tower 2 being the first game released in the US. That also happened with King's Field. Refer to item 1 on my list.
 
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Bubble Bobble, everyone loves Bubble Bobble.

This is Bubble Bobble 2, or "Rainbow Islands: The Story of Bubble Bobble 2"
Rainbow_islands1.PNG

Seven years later they released Bubble Bobble 2
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But three years before that they made a sequel to Bubble Bobble 2 called Parasol Stars. They ditched the BB name and made the game distinctively more BB than its predecessor. It is the third game in the series.
rainbowParasolstars.gif

A year before Bubble Bobble 2, but six years after Bubble Bobble 2, they also released Bubble Bobble Part 2. It is the direct sequel to The Story of Bubble Bobble 2.
rainbowBubble_Bobble_Part_2_NES_Gameplay_Screenshot.png

Two years after the third Bubble Bobble 2 they released Bubble Memories: The Story of Bubble Bobble III, it is the fifth game in the series.
rainbowBubble_Memories_The_Story_of_Bubble_Bobble_III_Arcade_Gameplay_Screenshot.png
 
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Technically with Frogger 3D and Frogger Free, theres two potential Frogger 3ses

AirdropShitposts said:
Contra III is the fifth Contra game or something. Some modern games do this too, Assassins Creed III and IV are the fifth and sixth games.

The greatest sequel name ever is the fourth Call of Duty: Black Ops game being Black Ops IIII because it's so stupid I still can't believe they did it and somehow got away with never explaining why.

edit: Oh wait, someone actually did the research instead of being a fag and apparently it's technically fine according to the British Museum, turns out I'm the stupid one and Bobby Kotick is the smartest man in human history instead:
View attachment 4222592View attachment 4222594
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I thought they were trying to do like tally marks but its amazing they think the cod audience is so dumb theyd be confused by an IV
WTBOnlineFather said:
You mention Mario as an example of clear cut sequel lineage, but before SMB3 it was subject to the exact same kind of sequel autism.
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I think Mario 2 (the doki one) might have popularized the idea of a sequel being different in games and almost started the thing of poperly numbering sequels
ultimately this stuff is because pac man, frogger and tetris are incredibly famous, and any sequel wont be. no one knows if there is a 2 of any of these so they always slap it on to get quick and easy publicity. it's like if someone made a Dracula 2, even tho theres already a Dracula sequel in Dracula's Daughter
 
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Smaug's Smokey Hole 2 said:
Bubble Bobble, everyone loves Bubble Bobble.

This is Bubble Bobble 2, or "Rainbow Islands: The Story of Bubble Bobble 2"
View attachment 4222955

Seven years later they released Bubble Bobble 2
View attachment 4222960

But three years before that they made a sequel to Bubble Bobble 2 called Parasol Stars. They ditched the BB name and made the game distinctively more BB than its predecessor. It is the third game in the series.
View attachment 4222972

A year before Bubble Bobble 2, but six years after Bubble Bobble 2, they also released Bubble Bobble Part 2. It is the direct sequel to The Story of Bubble Bobble 2.
View attachment 4222980

Two years after the third Bubble Bobble 2 they released Bubble Memories: The Story of Bubble Bobble III, it is the fifth game in the series.
View attachment 4222982
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Is Bust-a-Move a Bubble Bobble sequel?

640432-super-bust-a-move-windows-front-cover-2318054251.jpg
 
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King's Field 2 and 3 became King's Field 1 and 2 in western countries. The original game never got officially localized.

Thus, King's Field 4 was renamed King's Field: The Ancient City in the US. Which is just as well as that game doesn't have anything to do with the original trilogy story wise.
 
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Caesare said:
Is Bust-a-Move a Bubble Bobble sequel?

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That one is a localization thing. Puzzle Bobble is a spinoff of Bubble Bobble. BB is the platformer where you shoot bubbles at enemies. PB is the one where you match 3 bubbles of the same color to make them drop.

Puzzle Bobble got localized as Bust-A-Move.
Then the dance game Bust-A-Move came out, and they had to localize it as Bust-A-Groove because of it.

Confusing shit.

Lone MacReady II said:
Wasn't FF so behind in the west the 6th Final Fantasy game was actually called 3 here?
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FF1 got a western release on the NES. FF 2 and 3 didn't.
So when FF4 got a western release on the SNES, they called it FF2. FF5 didn't get one, and then FF6 did, so they called it FF3.

All the games eventually got western releases in bundles or remasters and so on and so forth, but at the time, the west had 1 as 1, 4 as 2, 6 as 3, and then suddenly 7.
 
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