To what degree is anonymity possible with online payments?

[Lemmingwise]

I've got a bit of expendable cash that I wouldn't mind throwing some in the direction of kiwifarms or other comparable places that I like. Though the idea that this is visible to someone at some time, is kinda preventing me.

I recognize it's probably a losing battle, but I'm curious to what degree it's possible to have online payments be not too visible.

I've never really looked into crypto too much. These are the opposite of anonymous in a way aren't they? Considering all transactions are stored in the blockchain?

Anyways if anyone has some thoughts to help on this subject, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Lord Xenu]

I haven't had any reason to use one for a few years, but if you are very concerned, you might be able to use a coin tumbler. That is a site that adds your coins to a pool of random others to anonymize it (for a fee) then spits it back out to a different wallet. TBH, I don't know if they are even useful now because of recent regulation. I only ever used BTC myself, but it's possible one of the privacy oriented coins is better.

 

[Fomo Hoire]

Depends on just how anonymous you want to be / how smart you think the threat model is.

Prepaid gift cards, even when paid for in cash, geolocate you. At least I'm pretty sure the last one I got specifically told me which store it was activated at, and at what time.

Bitcoin generally has to be tied to your identity if you're using money to get it off a major exchange, and I think even tumbling can be decyphered if it's looked at closely enough. I don't really understand the how, but I imagine it's like a correlation attack on the tor network.

Privacy.com will keep you anonymous to the seller, but of course privacy.com and your bank will still know that the transaction has occurred. You can pay privacy.com $10/month and they'll let you override the comment they send back to your bank so the bank won't know what the transaction was for, but privacy.com will still know.

If I were going to travel in the imminent future, I'd probably be fine buying gift cards in person with cash and waiting a few months before using them (lower the chances that still have security footage / the cashiers remember me). Otherwise it's all a matter of what kind of tracking do you want.

 

[Liber Pater]

Monero is even better than cash for donations and purchases of intangible goods/services, as you can use it without leaving your house, allowing you to not have to worry about surveillance cameras.
For tangible goods, however, in-person purchases with cash or other physical mediums of exchange are preferable because it allows you to avoid having to deal with the issue of shipping (getting something shipped to an address not in any way associated with your real identity is a pain in the ass).
The one exception to this is "goods that can be purchased on Amazon," as you can use an Amazon account with a fake name, an Amazon gift card purchased with cash, and an Amazon Locker to avoid the Shipping Question.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I haven't had any reason to use one for a few years, but if you are very concerned, you might be able to use a coin tumbler.

I wouldn't trust them these days, the feds are very much paying attention to tumblers - if not operating them themselves. Using one is probably like a red flag saying "Pay attention to this internet user, my fellow iridescent negroes".

I've never really looked into crypto too much. These are the opposite of anonymous in a way aren't they? Considering all transactions are stored in the blockchain?

True for most popular cryptocurrencies, but Monero is actually private - or to speak more precisely, nobody has managed to break it yet despite much effort.

If you ask me, the safest way to use crypto is to mine it yourself to a wallet that you keep segregated from your real-life identity. You can even mine Monero over Tor if you feel it's warranted.

That said, my real-life alter ego is just someone who listens to "Mad At The Internet" and bought some merchandise like a good consoomer who likes Youtubers. That's not illegal yet.

 

[Fomo Hoire]

That said, my real-life alter ego is just someone who listens to "Mad At The Internet" and bought some merchandise like a good consoomer who likes Youtubers. That's not illegal yet.

For people who get here after sales close but care more about throwing money around than about getting something out of it : I don't think subscribing to MATI on gumroad is illegal yet either, though I'm surprised it's possible considering they're based on San Francisco.

 

[Jerry Maguire]

a lot has been already said here but ill throw my two cents in. If I needed to convert my cash into crypto so I could be anonymous (Only really Monero is anonymous Zcash is a scam and Oxen is too new). First unless you spend a couple of grand to get your own Monero mining rig. you have to expose your identity to someone.

I would use localmonero I would use zelle, cash trade (in person), PayPal or Venmo. or something, I don't trust the Jews running cash by mail on that site. This will expose your identity to someone except cash by trade.

The reason I say to do it like this is because once you get the Monero, It'll already be anonymous. the only thing that can happen is that the user DaPhrog2021 can say they traded Monero for a PayPal transaction from you. and this can be verified. but once you have the Monero its untraceable. Id probably setup a dump wallet to receive the funds, then transfer them to my real wallet.

 

[Bongocat]

Privacy coins like Monero are your best bet. If you don't want to do that, even just transferring funds from a main btc/eth account to a separate wallet you create, then transferring that to where you want creates plausible deniability. Unless what you're doing is actually illegal, just the friction of one wallet transfer is enough to make most people stop the pursuit.

Also, I'll add that transferring out to a separate wallet for transactions is a good idea in general. Crypto exchanges are subject to all the same shit that binds mastercard and stripe. If you transfer to a blacklisted wallet (which can be effectively fucking random) they will likely lock your account without justification.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

I wouldn't trust them these days, the feds are very much paying attention to tumblers - if not operating them themselves. Using one is probably like a red flag saying "Pay attention to this internet user, my fellow iridescent negroes".

Yeah, if you've bought BitCoin (or, given the transaction fees, something like LiteCoin) off an exchange and just want to anonymize it a little bit, better to use a (reliable, vouched for widely on Reddit) crypto exchange service. Generally ones that are used for crypto-crypto exchanges will take no details or fake details just fine.

If you buy LiteCoin on a KYC exchange and exchange for Monero, your government knows that you bought LTC, that you bought some other crypto through an exchange using that LTC, and maybe that you bought Monero and what your Monero wallet address is (if the 2nd crypto exchange is disclosing information).

But they have no idea what you spent the Monero on.

 

[Niggernerd]

I'm a bank that accepts google play cards. Send em to me for safe keeping. You stay hidden always!

 

[libRT]

If a three letter agency wants to get you, just being online will eventually lead them to you, people shout about how anonymous tor and crypto is, but rarely mention how easy it is for you to fuck that up. It depends on how you use it, and whether you are consistently careful. Though they don't tend to go after users on websites unless they're commiting more serious crimes (CC fraud and upwards e.g darkode), or trying to embarrass them (lulzsec) even then they usually infiltrate and takeover the forum and use that to get the users (and its usually only the owners and the bigger players on the site).

As they have limited resources, I don't think they'll piss them away on KF users, as they'll have to burn resources they could be using elsewhere.

Only reason I could see is if it would ever become a big PR win for them. They would have to justify why stifling speech is more important then hunting fiddlers or places committing millions in fraud though.

TL;DR they probably won't come after you for using KF, if anything was to happen, Null or the site itself will be their target.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Brave is pretty decent for putting money towards Deer Feeder. If you're trying to buy Khajiit's wares in Morrowind then I really don't know, chip away at making coin over several VPNs maybe, use the ones that take money in an envelope as payment. But that sounds glowie as fuck as well, so maybe use another VPN to connect to that service and... ???

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Only reason I could see is if it would ever become a big PR win for them. They would have to justify why stifling speech is more important then hunting fiddlers or places committing millions in fraud though.

This is just not true. The FBI are political police, all they do is attack enemies of the American regime, whether those are domestic political dissidents or random Chinese women.

Care to guess how many times the child porn the notorious libertarian Nathan Larson hosted on his website was reported to the FBI? I reported it. I know several others who reported it too. But he had to kidnap a preteen girl before they realized it'd look bad if they didn't catch the guy.

Does that mean they'll go after KiwiFarms users? Not necessarily. But they'll go after KF users before they go after pedos.

 

[Lemmingwise]

The one exception to this is "goods that can be purchased on Amazon," as you can use an Amazon account with a fake name, an Amazon gift card purchased with cash, and an Amazon Locker to avoid the Shipping Question.

I looked into this. The amazon locker thing is very interesting. There's even some in Europe.

However you do need a phone number to register an amazon account and aren't phone numbers even if you get a burner sim, geolocated?

TL;DR they probably won't come after you for using KF, if anything was to happen, Null or the site itself will be their target

Maybe I'm learning about this for two directions. Not just protecting myself from the heat of people I donate to, but also vice versa.

a lot has been already said here but ill throw my two cents in. If I needed to convert my cash into crypto so I could be anonymous (Only really Monero is anonymous Zcash is a scam and Oxen is too new). First unless you spend a couple of grand to get your own Monero mining rig. you have to expose your identity to someone.

I would use localmonero I would use zelle, cash trade (in person), PayPal or Venmo. or something, I don't trust the Jews running cash by mail on that site. This will expose your identity to someone except cash by trade.

The reason I say to do it like this is because once you get the Monero, It'll already be anonymous. the only thing that can happen is that the user DaPhrog2021 can say they traded Monero for a PayPal transaction from you. and this can be verified. but once you have the Monero its untraceable. Id probably setup a dump wallet to receive the funds, then transfer them to my real wallet.

Thanks jerry maguire, you really are the ambassador of quan.

 

[Kosher Dill]

However you do need a phone number to register an amazon account and aren't phone numbers even if you get a burner sim, geolocated?

If "They" are likely to go to the trouble of geolocating a burner phone and then tracing it back to you based on that, you have bigger problems on your hands than how to order stuff from Amazon.
Besides which, Amazon will still know what locker they sent your stuff to. If someone with that level of capability really wants to get you, they'll just get the order info from Amazon and send an Afro-American with tire treads on his back to stake out your locker.

 

[Lemmingwise]

If "They" are likely to go to the trouble of geolocating a burner phone and then tracing it back to you based on that, you have bigger problems on your hands than how to order stuff from Amazon.
Besides which, Amazon will still know what locker they sent your stuff to. If someone with that level of capability really wants to get you, they'll just get the order info from Amazon and send an Afro-American with tire treads on his back to stake out your locker.

l approach all of this from a big data perspective. Staking a locker is what happens if they're currently targetting.

Timestamped geolocation data of burner phones is probably sitting in databases and can be retroactively cross refferenced for decades to come.

 

[libRT]

This is just not true. The FBI are political police, all they do is attack enemies of the American regime, whether those are domestic political dissidents or random Chinese women.

Care to guess how many times the child porn the notorious libertarian Nathan Larson hosted on his website was reported to the FBI? I reported it. I know several others who reported it too. But he had to kidnap a preteen girl before they realized it'd look bad if they didn't catch the guy.

Does that mean they'll go after KiwiFarms users? Not necessarily. But they'll go after KF users before they go after pedos.

You'd have been better off reporting it to the local police, Just because you made a report doesn't mean it'll get investigated, and there are plenty of examples of the FBI going after pedos.

Not saying there isn't political motivation in nothing they do, but there are plenty more examples of them taking down pedo rings, then there are of them attacking free speech forums, and even less targeting the users of those forums. They would have to fight the first amendment.

I guess it depends where you are. Americans are safer than Europeans as Europe is tightening laws around free speech and those do target the individual users. Though I haven't heard it being enforced at the glowy level. The ones that do enforce it have limited resources, so unless you post something that directly identifies you, you should be okay... Take that with a grain of salt though, with the way the politics are moving, that could change soon.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

You'd have been better off reporting it to the local police, Just because you made a report doesn't mean it'll get investigated, and there are plenty of examples of the FBI going after pedos.

Not saying there isn't political motivation in nothing they do, but there are plenty more examples of them taking down pedo rings, then there are of them attacking free speech forums, and even less targeting the users of those forums. They would have to fight the first amendment.

lol I did that too.

The FBI are solely political police.

 

[libRT]

lol I did that too.

The FBI are solely political police.

What makes you think that? All police are political police to some extent but I always thought CIA were the worst of them all.

 

[Liber Pater]

However you do need a phone number to register an amazon account and aren't phone numbers even if you get a burner sim, geolocated?

Just buy a burner with cash and either take out the battery or put it in a Faraday cage when you're at home and/or not using it. Only take it out and turn it on (in a public place of course) when you need to register, receive a verification code, or pick up a package.
Alternatively, you can rent a SIM online using Monero and receive verification/registration texts without ever needing to physically possess the SIM.