Evergrande Financial Panic - Corona is not the only Contagion China is exporting

[Maurice Caine]

The powers that Be since the 1990s have believed they could remake China in their image. Since the 2000's they have believed they could profit from China. Since the 2010's they have believed they could make the West, China, and that China would be a good steward to replace the fractious America.

They are all fools. They assume China is motivated by math and market forces. It's not. China is motivated by an unrelenting desire for revenge no matter the cost. These idiots have handed China powerful weapons with which to exact that revenge and if given the chance they will use them. The Chinese do not CARE about the global economy.

To them the global economy is an artifact of the western imperialists. Given the chance to crash it with no survivors they will do so. They have living memory of suffering beyond the comprehension of people in charge in the West. Xi Xinping grew up in one of Maos labor camps FFS. They view the western elites as feckless, decadent imbeciles.

And the worst part? They are correct in all their assessments.

As if they're any better lol

 

[Super-Chevy454]

As if they're any better lol

They helped to put Mao and his gang in power and they lost control of their Frankenstein, talk about irony.

 

[Maurice Caine]

They helped to put Mao and his gang in power and they lost control of their Frankenstein, talk about irony.

I'm starting to feel that later generations will see the chinks as the 21st equivalent of the nazis

 

[Meat Target]

I'm starting to feel that later generations will see the chinks as the 21st equivalent of the nazis

That depends on who wins Cold War 2/WW3.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Goldman Sachs has flagged extreme danger from China's local governments who have 8.2 trillion dollars of debts outstanding, and since these local governments rely on property developers like Evergeande for much of their revenue they are at risk of being unable to pay as the property market grinds to a halt.

Goldman Flags $8.2 Trillion Threat Worse Than China Evergrande

Goldman Sachs says the total debt of local government financing vehicles rose to $8.2 at the end of 2020.

www.forbes.com

 

[Zarael]

They are all fools. They assume China is motivated by math and market forces. It's not. China is motivated by an unrelenting desire for revenge no matter the cost. These idiots have handed China powerful weapons with which to exact that revenge and if given the chance they will use them. The Chinese do not CARE about the global economy.

I don't think it's revenge, it's self interest. China is not altruistic, they only act for Chinese benefit. China is dangerous not because they're out for revenge but because when it comes down to whats good for China and whats good for any other country they'll always choose whats good for China no matter the consequences for any other nation, perhaps even especially because of the consequences if China views a course of action hobbling a potential competitor. The western dream of a unified and harmonious global alliance of nations is not the Chinese dream.

You're right that the Chinese don't care about the global economy, they'll happily crash it if it's beneficial to China's interests but it's simply because the Chinese really don't give a fuck about anyone except the Chinese.

 

[Getting tard comed]

Goldman Sachs has flagged extreme danger from China's local governments who have 8.2 trillion dollars of debts outstanding, and since these local governments rely on property developers like Evergeande for much of their revenue they are at risk of being unable to pay as the property market grinds to a halt.

Goldman Flags $8.2 Trillion Threat Worse Than China Evergrande

Goldman Sachs says the total debt of local government financing vehicles rose to $8.2 at the end of 2020.

www.forbes.com

Forgive me, but.. doesn't the US owe 27tril in outstanding debts? Is Goldman flagging the US?

You're right that the Chinese don't care about the global economy, they'll happily crash it if it's beneficial to China's interests but it's simply because the Chinese really don't give a fuck about anyone except the Chinese.

Acting like every goverment should.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Forgive me, but.. doesn't the US owe 27tril in outstanding debts? Is Goldman flagging the US?

These are local governments in China (which I assume is both provinces and cities) and if you read the article, that amount of debt is both excessive and there's no transparency behind it because of various sorts of banking practices China uses. This was the debt they used for building all those fancy skyscrapers, apartments, shopping malls, etc. that are lucky to be 5% occupied. In a way, it amounts to bribes for local CCP officials to advance their position, because if they don't put up good numbers for GDP and have some infrastructure/cool stuff to show the national-level CCP officials, their career is done and they'll advance no further in the party.

Basically there's some really shady things that China is doing they won't tell us about i.e. a day ending in "y".

 

[George Lucas]

Forgive me, but.. doesn't the US owe 27tril in outstanding debts? Is Goldman flagging the US?

Acting like every goverment should.

The U.S. government has never failed to pay back a loan.

 

[mindlessobserver]

These guys lived I'm China for several years and know what's up

 

[Phalanges Mycologist]

These guys lived I'm China for several years and know what's up

I don't know if it's still up but these guys had videos of them driving through abandoned newly built citys that where 3 - 6 months old and already starting to crumble and not just in a way that said there was a minor fault in some construction process like a cracked flag or sunken tile etc it was major stuff like cracks in the buildings you could get your hand in etc.

China is a Paper tiger when it comes to the majority of it's internal infrastructure, and they know it that's why unless it's a grand project they buy in experience or machinery and even then they cut corners as much as they can.

 

[Garm]

I don't know if it's still up but these guys had videos of them driving through abandoned newly built citys that where 3 - 6 months old and already starting to crumble and not just in a way that said there was a minor fault in some construction process like a cracked flag or sunken tile etc it was major stuff like cracks in the buildings you could get your hand in etc.

China is a Paper tiger when it comes to the majority of it's internal infrastructure, and they know it that's why unless it's a grand project they buy in experience or machinery and even then they cut corners as much as they can.

Indeed. A friend of mine lived in China for a year and noted all the corner that were cut in the building process. His bathroom vent was a straight round pipe that exited through a triangle shaped hole in the wall.

He also had a photo of a students computer that caught fire just by plugging it in. Or did I see that here? Either way, it sounded like Chinese cities were once bad storm from being swept from the face of the earth.

 

[RodgerDodger]

I don't think it's revenge, it's self interest. China is not altruistic, they only act for Chinese benefit. China is dangerous not because they're out for revenge but because when it comes down to whats good for China and whats good for any other country they'll always choose whats good for China no matter the consequences for any other nation, perhaps even especially because of the consequences if China views a course of action hobbling a potential competitor. The western dream of a unified and harmonious global alliance of nations is not the Chinese dream.

You're right that the Chinese don't care about the global economy, they'll happily crash it if it's beneficial to China's interests but it's simply because the Chinese really don't give a fuck about anyone except the Chinese.

The problem in China is they don't actually act in Chinese interests either. The most hilarious thing about Chinese Communism is it has created the worlds most individually self interest focused least empathetic people in human history. They act exclusively in their own interests. To the detriment of everyone else if possible.

Forgive me, but.. doesn't the US owe 27tril in outstanding debts? Is Goldman flagging the US?

Acting like every goverment should.

This is a rarely understood or appreciated false equivalency. Because of 2 different key elements.

The first is as someone said it is the difference between sovereign debt and local government debt. Sovereigns can print money to satisy debt if needed. With their ability to issue debt depending on the strength of their currency. Local governments cant do that. They can only raise taxes. The crisis point occurs when the outstanding debt exceeds the value of the tax base. And this can happen in the US. See Detroit, Chicago and parts of California. The problem in China is the land is never owned. It is long term leased from the government by the developers such as Evergrande. When the developers start defaulting on those leases the local governments are fucked.

The second key point with US debt is the US dollar is the defacto world reserve and exchange currency. This means the loans are all written in US currency. The US could technically satisfy them by printing a trillion dollar bill. It would have vast economic consequences but it would clear the debt. Whereas the bonds of the Chinese cities are also written in US dollars. China can print Yuan in theory but it becomes a Venezuela'esque death spiral as the exchange rate on the Yuan tanks faster than the loan can be satisfied.

What it comes down to is US debt is more stable because it is in the self interest of every other party worldwide to maintain the strength of the global exchange currency. Yhey all have holdings in us dollars. And yeah it is a ton of smoke and mirrors and financial bs.

 

[Phalanges Mycologist]

Indeed. A friend of mine lived in China for a year and noted all the corner that were cut in the building process. His bathroom vent was a straight round pipe that exited through a triangle shaped hole in the wall.

He also had a photo of a students computer that caught fire just by plugging it in. Or did I see that here? Either way, it sounded like Chinese cities were once bad storm from being swept from the face of the earth.

I've spoken to people in the past who have gone there for work on Engineering project and some of the stuff is insane, You know that bridge that collapsed in Italy in 2019? That was built using very good Steel in a semi marine environment and that took 65 years and about 30 years of that with bad maintenance for it to reach the point the Oxidisation fracture happened caused by Rust Jacking that made it collapse, but in China buildings built 12 months ago are suffering that regularly because they use the wrong concrete and wrong steel to make the rebar from (and more and more of that is slipping into the Western Supply chains). The pictures and what it's for blow my mind, if this was a small non infrastructure project it would be bad enough but this is for major road bridges, drinking water dams, power plants etc.


I mean look up what sort of industrial crap they make for export supposedly the best and then look at what they make for internal use, as I said a lot more of there domestic stuff is showing up externally now and it's not just dangerous it's down right fatal - I've seen a Arc Welder that if you used it youd be lucky to end up in the hospital and more likely to end up in a pine box if you used it under sized wirers no case isolation capacitors that where undersized and likely refurbished or failed QC, Carbide Lathe tooling that would look alright until you ran it up-to speed that would explode as it wasn't sintered properly, something that was calling it's self HSS tool steel that was on closer inspection a amalgam of horse shit, used news paper and bits of someone's dinner sprayed silver etc.

 

[veri]

and more and more of that is slipping into the Western Supply chain

so the stability of our buildings here will rely on good quality control and testing the building materials being imported? if so i think i’m going to be more cautious entering newer multiple floor buildings going forward, or any type that look unstable enough to appear in liveleak videos. most construction workers wouldn’t give a fuck to make sure the material they’re using is even the proper type.

 

[Phalanges Mycologist]

so the stability of our buildings here will rely on good quality control and testing the building materials being imported? if so i think i’m going to be more cautious entering newer multiple floor buildings going forward, or any type that look unstable enough to appear in liveleak videos. most construction workers wouldn’t give a fuck to make sure the material they’re using is even the proper type.

Kinda, most places do batch testing i.e. they take a random selection from a few and pass the rest (as is normal) but China has gotten wind of the process and stick the crap stuff in the middle and the guy doing QC will only pull the ones he can easilly grab most of the time.

The good news is the guys who install it know there stuff and if it's not right will refuse it, weight is a dead give away, but they also do spark testing if something feels off, it's electrical and fastners that are a real concern for me.

 

[Garm]

I've spoken to people in the past who have gone there for work on Engineering project and some of the stuff is insane, You know that bridge that collapsed in Italy in 2019? That was built using very good Steel in a semi marine environment and that took 65 years and about 30 years of that with bad maintenance for it to reach the point the Oxidisation fracture happened caused by Rust Jacking that made it collapse, but in China buildings built 12 months ago are suffering that regularly because they use the wrong concrete and wrong steel to make the rebar from (and more and more of that is slipping into the Western Supply chains). The pictures and what it's for blow my mind, if this was a small non infrastructure project it would be bad enough but this is for major road bridges, drinking water dams, power plants etc.


I mean look up what sort of industrial crap they make for export supposedly the best and then look at what they make for internal use, as I said a lot more of there domestic stuff is showing up externally now and it's not just dangerous it's down right fatal - I've seen a Arc Welder that if you used it youd be lucky to end up in the hospital and more likely to end up in a pine box if you used it under sized wirers no case isolation capacitors that where undersized and likely refurbished or failed QC, Carbide Lathe tooling that would look alright until you ran it up-to speed that would explode as it wasn't sintered properly, something that was calling it's self HSS tool steel that was on closer inspection a amalgam of horse shit, used news paper and bits of someone's dinner sprayed silver etc.

Indeed. Fastenal seemingly get bolts from China that seem to be made out of fucking Railroad rails because the damn things started snapping our (thread) taps. And this has been going on for years now. I'd hate to see what other people have to deal with.

 

[Phalanges Mycologist]

Indeed. Fastenal seemingly get bolts from China that seem to be made out of fucking Railroad rails because the damn things started snapping our (thread) taps. And this has been going on for years now. I'd hate to see what other people have to deal with.

I've seen bolts designed for serious load that people have been able to bend with their hands, not a little distortion either but 90 degree bends

 

[RodgerDodger]

so the stability of our buildings here will rely on good quality control and testing the building materials being imported? if so i think i’m going to be more cautious entering newer multiple floor buildings going forward, or any type that look unstable enough to appear in liveleak videos. most construction workers wouldn’t give a fuck to make sure the material they’re using is even the proper type.

Thankfully most of those doing the building in the US tend to have a decent eye for quality vs building codes. And will normally get pissy about chinese construction materials that are too shoddy. It's not like in China where they will quite literally replace Rebar with Bamboo poles. If the guys pouring the concrete can hand bend the rebar when they shouldn't be able to, somebody will notice and complain. Because nobody wants to get blamed for that shit. Especially now that everybody is paranoid following Champlain Towers. The real dangers are in things that are harder to spot. Like electrical components. Cheap Chinese lighting fixtures and such. There is more of a fire risk that a collapse risk.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

There is an entire industry in the US that exists almost solely to provide additional QC for Chinese-made junk that US companies are selling. In a way, this is good because it's China sending jobs back to the US. Better not tell Chairman Pooh he can put tens of thousands of Americans out of decent-paying jobs by demanding his factories stop producing utter shit.