Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Ishtar]

Ya know, now that you mention it.....what are the odds nu-trek isnt going to take one more step towards the generic "gritty and grim sci fi dystopia" mush it has been so desperately trying to become and resurrect the Marquis as its designated cyber punk Resistance™ group against the tyranny of the TrumpBrexit Federation and KlingonRussia infiltrated Starfleet?

I mean honestly the only reason I can think of why they wouldnt do it is because its something that was actually inadvertently sorta foreshadowed in old-trek by that bizarre post dominion war voyager episode with some batshit bajoran trying to resurrect the Marquis for seemingly no reason despite cardassia being a smoking ruin, and we all know by now that nu-trek goes out of its way to ignore any and all continuity or link with old-trek that could be used to justify its horseshit plotlines due to the uncaring ineptitude of the writing team*

*i.e. the scuffed reapers in picard which instead of drawing from previously established evil AI plotlines and concepts in-universe that would fit near perfectly like V'ger or the Exo III androids, decided to just randomly crowbar in continuity breaking omnipotent-god robots and the corresponding super-duper powerful anti AI romulan ninja woman cult who despite being so powerful and wide reaching and influential for the entirity of recorded galactic history were never mentioned or referenced before in any capacity despite how common AI and rogue AI and even godlike AI was for the past half century of Trek and how little a shit was given about them by the Romulans.

Funny thing is the Maquis would come across as right wing insurrectionists today. They refuse to leave their homesteads, reject “paradise”, Eddington a White guy and Sisko the black protagonist have a long running current of antagonism. Mostly because Eddington completely dunked on sisko and made a fool of him and Sisko thus wants to nail his ass to the wall.

 

[Calandrino]

If the Maquis were planned to be used for voyager, than frankly it was piss poor planning as the two premises just don’t mesh at all.

I have to chalk it up to Voyager ending up totally different from what Ronald D. Moore had in his head, because I can't see how it was ever going to work. There's got to be a 1,001 more elegant ways to introduce conflict between the crew, that would feel less forced and carry less irrelevant story baggage.

From memory alpha:

The notion of the Maquis was conceived by the end of July 1993. They were originally imagined as rebellious "misfits" who partly made up the crew complement of the (not yet named) USS Voyager and were "stuck with" the Starfleet officers on board. (Star Trek: Voyager - A Vision of the Future, pp. 174-175) Ronald D. Moore noted, "The Maquis were definitely created for Voyager." (AOL chat, 1997) Jeri Taylor offered, "We knew that we wanted to include a renegade element in Voyager, and that the show would involve [...] these idealistic freedom fighters that the Federation felt were outlaws." Hence, the creation of the Maquis proceeded from the Voyager creators' goal "to have some people who are quite different from the Starfleet Human types we see all the time," in the words of Michael Piller. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (p. 134)) In fact, Moore said, "The initial idea for Voyager was that the Maquis who joined the crew would not put on the Starfleet uniforms. Michael lost that fight." (Star Trek: The Next Generation 365, p. 352) Additionally, Moore clarified, "The whole premise of the Maquis was that it was attracting legitimate, upstanding officers." (Star Trek: The Official Starships Collection, issue 28, p. 14)

 

[Captain Syrup]

Tranny Minbari were originally gonna be a thing, right?

Hemaphrodites.

They wound up canning the idea because the voice modulator was hard to understand. Furlan was upset that they cast her as a lead, only to bury her in latex and hide her voice.

Remember, JMS did not share his plans with the actors; so she had no way of knowing that Delenn would become human.

 

[Pork Packer]

Funny thing is the Maquis would come across as right wing insurrectionists today. They refuse to leave their homesteads, reject “paradise”, Eddington a White guy and Sisko the black protagonist have a long running current of antagonism. Mostly because Eddington completely dunked on sisko and made a fool of him and Sisko thus wants to nail his ass to the wall.

Oh they can work with that aswell. Just need to have a "redeemed" post drumpf nu-federation coming under attack by evil human supremacist Marquis who want to purge all aliens from the federation and are covertly being funded by the evil klingons.

Also the true main villain of the season is a malevolent and ancient totalitarian empire from the Gamma quadrant ruled by shape-shifting psychopaths who pose as its gods and who command swarms of genetically engineered super soldiers.....but for some inexplicable reason is *not* the Dominion, has zero relation to the dominion, and zero mention is made of the dominion by any of the characters or creators because.....shut up.

 

[Flexo]

Judging by what Sense8 was like I'm not hopeful.

Clicks "I would like to know more" button.

 

[Never Scored]

I have to say, I've seen episodes three and four of Lower Decks now and it does get better. It's still pretty bad, don't get me wrong, the black girl and the green girl are extremely grating and over-the-top, but some of the comedy sci-fi conciets are OK. I will not deny a planet of people obsessed with crystals getting offended by a hunk of wood is a funny idea. Like, the problem is the characters and their dialouge, but the actual episodic framework which tries to mirror old Trek where they go on a different adventure every week and every episode is a complete arc with a beginning middle and end is OK.

 

[Pork Packer]

I have to say, I've seen episodes three and four of Lower Decks now and it does get better. It's still pretty bad, don't get me wrong, the black girl and the green girl are extremely grating and over-the-top, but some of the comedy sci-fi conciets are OK. I will not deny a plant of people obsessed with crystals getting offended by a hunk of wood is a funny idea. Like, the problem is the characters and their dialouge, but the actual episodic framework which tries to mirror old Trek where they go on a different adventure every week and every episode is a complete arc with a beginning middle and end is OK.

All I have seen of it screams of it being a desperation tinged parody of old-trek aimed to ape the popularity of the Orville and to reel in the Rick and Morty retards.

In and of itself it is to my tastes just plain shit, and is actively embarrassing at times to watch even a few minutes...but that being said it covering itself in star trek references while also using the structure and themes of old-trek as the basis for its scuffed Scary Movie tier spoof, it is upsettingly the closest shit we have seen to old-trek by far in the nu-trek era which is why I am not surprised its driven so many embittered fans into stockholm syndrome.

Frankly the only way I would ever even consider giving the show the merest nugget of kudos is if its finale apes that of Enterprise and in the last scene it turns out to all have been a heavily embellished and caricatured holo-novel series written by the protagonist about her time in starfleet with it being made clear all the dumb cringe shit was either made up or heavily exaggerated. Atleast that way it wouldnt have utterly buttfucked the setting and continuity like the rest of nu-trek.

I mean....this is why I genuinely think fucking prodigy has a shot of being the best of nu-trek despite what i have said about it and how bad it seems guaranteed to be.

Solely by dint of being a retard-baby-cartoon-for-retards-and-babies it is *probably* not going to be a pile of insufferable "grim and griddy and dark and dystopian" edgelord masturbation like discovery and picard, and it also is *probably* not going to be "haha poo poo and cum" tryhard cartoon like fucking lower decks. These two factors alone coupled with the fact its gonna be set far away from any canon or continuity worth a damn give it a solid chance to be the best star trek content in nearly two fucking decades, and there are no words that sum up how fucking sad this makes me.

 

[Never Scored]

All I have seen of it screams of it being a desperation tinged parody of old-trek aimed to ape the popularity of the Orville and to reel in the Rick and Morty retards.

In and of itself it is to my tastes just plain shit, and is actively embarrassing at times to watch even a few minutes...but that being said it covering itself in star trek references while also using the structure and themes of old-trek as the basis for its scuffed Scary Movie tier spoof, it is upsettingly the closest shit we have seen to old-trek by far in the nu-trek era which is why I am not surprised its driven so many embittered fans into stockholm syndrome.

Frankly the only way I would ever even consider giving the show the merest nugget of kudos is if its finale apes that of Enterprise and in the last scene it turns out to all have been a heavily embellished and caricatured holo-novel series written by the protagonist about her time in starfleet with it being made clear all the dumb cringe shit was either made up or heavily exaggerated. Atleast that way it wouldnt have utterly buttfucked the setting and continuity like the rest of nu-trek.

I mean....this is why I genuinely think fucking prodigy has a shot of being the best of nu-trek despite what i have said about it and how bad it seems guaranteed to be.

Solely by dint of being a retard-baby-cartoon-for-retards-and-babies it is *probably* not going to be a pile of insufferable "grim and griddy and dark and dystopian" edgelord masturbation like discovery and picard, and it also is *probably* not going to be haha poo poo and cum tryhard cartoon like fucking lower decks. These two factors alone give it a solid chance to be the best star trek content in nearly two fucking decades, and there are no words that sum up how fucking sad this makes me.

It's that god damn black girl and the green girl. The dialouge for both of them is some of the most cringe inducing shit I've ever heard. If you had the same show with the same sci-fi plot devices and it revloved around strong black female captian who's insecure because her ship is unimportant, grumpy cat doctor, giant old security man and dudebro first officer, it still wouldn't be great, but it'd be a perfectly watchable show of maybe the same quality as something like Solar Opposites. That's the weirdest thing about it, because you'd still have your strong black female protagonist to appeal to the sjw set, but the show would be watchable. I get that they were trying to do something different with the Lower Decks thing, but having a comedy sci-fi show based around the least important ship in Star Fleet would have been a unique enough concept to warrent an animated comedy. Instead they gave us black girl who's good at everything, but doesn't try because trying is lame and is obnoxiously vocal about it and green hipster space girl who is SUPER WACKY and needs to be liked.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Solely by dint of being a retard-baby-cartoon-for-retards-and-babies it is *probably* not going to be a pile of insufferable "grim and griddy and dark and dystopian" edgelord masturbation like discovery and picard, and it also is *probably* not going to be "haha poo poo and cum" tryhard cartoon like fucking lower decks. These two factors alone coupled with the fact its gonna be set far away from any canon or continuity worth a damn give it a solid chance to be the best star trek content in nearly two fucking decades, and there are no words that sum up how fucking sad this makes me.

This is what you're saying now. Let's see if you'll still think this when this show starts explaining dilators to children and the importance of not assuming another person's gender. I am not kidding, it's what I legit expect at this point.

Jesus fucking christ....
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https://twitter.com/YoungSheldon/status/1447269091840913410

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Words cannot begin to express how much hatred I feel in my soul at this moment.

Got you covered fam:

In Current Year, on The CW, with "New Ideas" Blended in? Original creator or not, don't count your shows before the show's last episode.

ftfy. Did you learn nothing from GoT?

Remember than JMS did not share his plans with the actors; so she had no way of knowing that Delenn would become human.

In this situation, I would have assumed that Delenn becoming human wasn't so much a plan by JMS hatched in secret and more it being a way to pacify Delenn's actress after she went "I don't wanna be a baldy any longer" for the 50th time before lunch break.

 

[Pork Packer]

If you had the same show with the same sci-fi plot devices and it revloved around strong black female captian who's insecure because her ship is unimportant, grumpy cat doctor, giant old security man and dudebro first officer, it still wouldn't be great, but it'd be a perfectly watchable show of maybe the same quality as something like Solar Opposites. That's the weirdest thing about it, because you'd still have your strong black female protagonist to appeal to the sjw set, but the show would be watchable.

You can say the exact same thing about the rest of nu-trek

Discovery:

• Have Michelle Yeoh as captain and whispering crying female black cringe machine as her first officer and a diverse cast use their experimental ship to chart out unexplored space under the shadow of a cold war with the klingons.
• Strip away the fucking mirror universe shit and ESPECIALLY mirror universe space hitler
• Not endlessly babbling about and prominently featuring goddamn fucking section 31 at every opportunity for fuck sake I will never forgive Deep Space 9 for this
• Just have cringe black lady character be a human raised by vulcans instead of spocks sekrit adopted sister who taught him everything so the show doesnt have the single oldest and most reviled bad-fanfic cliche as its foundation stone
• Do the barest minimum to give the rest of the cast time in the spotlight to milk their muh-diversity for all its worth and to take attention away from the aforementioned black cringe lady

....and you would have a trek show that would still be prime woke fodder to milk in positive reviews by the truckload, while also not being such a fucking car crash with regards to canon and continuity and the basic roddenderry concept despite still almost certainly being badly written and acted across the board, and even if the first season was utter shit it would still have some vague potential to be reworked like TNG and turned into something slightly passable.

Picard:

• For fuck sake dont turn the federation into an evil racist dystopia
• Dont make the black lady main character a crack addict who neglects her kids jesus christ
• Holy shit dont make seven of nine a generic "badass space ranger" mercenary
• For the love of god dont include even one romulan ninja samurai, let alone fucking multiple different orders of them
• By all that is sacred dont make one of the female main characters a spineless murderer who gets away with it because she is spineless and weak and thus undeserving of punishment
• I cant even believe I have to fucking say this but dont make the remaining female main character of the bunch an ultra-genocidal psychopath who will knowingly and of sound mind happily murder trillions of trillions of innocent people just because of her emotional boo boo. Also dont give her a meaningless fucking twin who dies in the first episode but means absolutely nothing.
• In the name of Gene Roddenderry's blowjob tuxedo dont have the main villain/threat of the series be some ridiculously powerful and canon/continuity destroying force that despite having never once been mentioned should have appeared or been referenced a thousand times beforehand in-universe due to how egregiously dangerous and influential they are and how tied they are to one of the most common concepts in the franchise. Especially if they could be easily substituted for shit already in canon that would make a tiny bit of sense.
• God fucking damn it dont have picard dress up and act like an evil fucking frenchman and cringe me into a fucking coma.
• Dont.

....and you would have an irredeemable piece of shit sure, but it would not have been anywhere near as godawful as what we got. At worst it would be Star Trek Nemesis on steroids and not the utter atrocity we got.

 

[DavidS877]

Since B5 has been brought up as well as ST-D now having yet another Galaxy Destroying Plot!!!!. (Possible spoilers for B5) I'm curious was there any Sci-Fi TV or even movies before B5 that went all the way to having basically a galaxy destroying enemy/anomaly. At least B5 took 4 seasons to get there but I'm wondering if JMS is partially to blame for the new(ish) "everything has to be a galaxy/universe wide threat" Genre.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Since B5 has been brought up as well as ST-D now having yet another Galaxy Destroying Plot!!!!. (Possible spoilers for B5) I'm curious was there any Sci-Fi TV or even movies before B5 that went all the way to having basically a galaxy destroying enemy/anomaly. At least B5 took 4 seasons to get there but I'm wondering if JMS is partially to blame for the new(ish) "everything has to be a galaxy/universe wide threat" Genre.

No. Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay are the ones who made that stake utterly ridiculous.

 

[Miller]

Clicks "I would like to know more" button.

After you've watched the opening titles, I doubt that you will want to know more.

 

[Flexo]

After you've watched the opening titles, I doubt that you will want to know more.

Oh I've seen trailers and a bit about Wikipedia so I don't really want to. I am more curious what you think has gotten JMS to lose his touch and how much of the show you think is him vs Wachowski.

Of course it's intentional. J.J. thinks every movie needs to be Empire Strikes Back.

Um, ESB is the ONLY Star Wars movie without a planet destroying weapon or threat to the galaxy.

 

[AnOminous]

Well yeah... Frasier sucked by the end, but then again so does everything, especially these days. The majority of it was still particularly solid.

To bring this back on topic:

Because of this silly skit that some shitty awards show had made, the entire main cast of Frasier have *all* now officially appeared in something at least vaguely Trek-related at some point. Kelsey Grammer wasn't in this, but he had already been in a particularly decent episode of TNG years earlier.

And it was a spinoff from Cheers, which gave us Kirstie Alley as Saavik. And Bebe Neuwirth also in TNG.

 

[Captain Syrup]

And it was a spinoff from Cheers, which gave us Kirstie Alley as Saavik. And Bebe Neuwirth also in TNG.

And Patrick Stewart guest-starred as Frasier's gay admirer.

"Damn my fatal allure! "

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Frankly the only way I would ever even consider giving the show the merest nugget of kudos is if its finale apes that of Enterprise and in the last scene it turns out to all have been a heavily embellished and caricatured holo-novel series written by the protagonist about her time in starfleet with it being made clear all the dumb cringe shit was either made up or heavily exaggerated.

So she's black female Barclay? I can go with that.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

nOo!

dEeLaAy tHaAt pHaAsEeR oOrDeEr!

What's up with that scene anyway? Did they get in a wormhole because broken warp engines?

And somehow destroying some asteroid got them out?

 

[Captain Syrup]

So she's black female Barclay?

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

View attachment 2617622

She didn't inherit his charisma or talent though.