Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[UnKillFill]

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You know what? I loved sliders growing up,
Rembrandt Brown is almost the exact opposite of Michael Burnham. From literally the very first episode, and onward, he was very clearly presented as the least likely person who should have ever had to deal with the shit that the show put him through... AND YET- He's the *only* main character who survived throughout the entire series. I do not believe that this neo faggot has ever seen even one episode of sliders.

*Literally* the only thing that Michael and Rembrandt have in common is that they're both black. It's already been said here (and I agree) Burnham is a charisma vacuum, and Rembrandt Brown is pretty much the exact opposite of that. How dare these faggy assholes continue to try to ruin good shows that I watched in the 90's and early 00's.

 

[HarryHowler]

Funny thing is the Maquis would come across as right wing insurrectionists today. They refuse to leave their homesteads, reject “paradise”, Eddington a White guy and Sisko the black protagonist have a long running current of antagonism. Mostly because Eddington completely dunked on sisko and made a fool of him and Sisko thus wants to nail his ass to the wall.

I'm actually quite surprised that Picard didn't try to turn the Maquis into a parallel for Brexit, or the secessionist movements in the southern U.S. and western Canada. They basically told the Federation and Cardassians that they were going to go their own way, weren't going to take any crap from anybody, and were going to do far better on their own - and lasted a whole three years before getting completely slaughtered by the Dominion.

 

[Ishtar]

I'm actually quite surprised that Picard didn't try to turn the Maquis into a parallel for Brexit, or the secessionist movements in the southern U.S. and western Canada. They basically told the Federation and Cardassians that they were going to go their own way, weren't going to take any crap from anybody, and were going to do far better on their own - and lasted a whole three years before getting completely slaughtered by the Dominion.

Because the writers of Picard don’t know enough about Star Trek to even do that.

 

[Evil Peter Griffin]

• Not endlessly babbling about and prominently featuring goddamn fucking section 31 at every opportunity for fuck sake I will never forgive Deep Space 9 for this

Don't blame DS9 for Nu Trek shitty writings. DS9 used section 31 correctly and intelligently.

 

[Captain Syrup]

DS9 used section 31 correctly and intelligently.

That's debatable. But you are right. If Alex wants to cherrypick from DS9 and discard the rest, that's on him.

 

[Great President of McHell]

Don't blame DS9 for Nu Trek shitty writings. DS9 used section 31 correctly and intelligently.

Always loved how vague DS9 kept section 31, for all we know it may have literally just been Sloan and a lot of sympathizers in starfleet willing to lend a hand every now and again. In the end they don't even have that much of an effect on the dominion war and serve more to raise questions about how loyal people actually are to the federation doctrine.
Nu trek seems to forget that section 31 had no infrastructure and was for the most part just a bunch of assholes (potentially just a singular asshole) running around causing shit for what they personally believe is in the federations best interest, far from the official starfleet sanctioned shadow organisation they portray it as.
Just another in the long list of things aped from DS9 with no understanding of why it worked in the first place.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Always loved how vague DS9 kept section 31, for all we know it may have literally just been Sloan and a lot of sympathizers

Supposedly it was baked into the Federation charter. But since we never see the founding document, it could just be a clause that Sloan picked up on.

 

[Calandrino]

You know what? I loved sliders growing up,
Rembrandt Brown is almost the exact opposite of Michael Burnham. From literally the very first episode, and onward, he was very clearly presented as the least likely person who should have ever had to deal with the shit that the show put him through... AND YET- He's the *only* main character who survived throughout the entire series. I do not believe that this neo faggot has ever seen even one episode of sliders.

*Literally* the only thing that Michael and Rembrandt have in common is that they're both black. It's already been said here (and I agree) Burnham is a charisma vacuum, and Rembrandt Brown is pretty much the exact opposite of that. How dare these faggy assholes continue to try to ruin good shows that I watched in the 90's and early 00's.

If there's even a way for Sliders to get any more ruined than it is already, I don't want to know about it

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Always loved how vague DS9 kept section 31, for all we know it may have literally just been Sloan and a lot of sympathizers in starfleet willing to lend a hand every now and again. In the end they don't even have that much of an effect on the dominion war and serve more to raise questions about how loyal people actually are to the federation doctrine.
Nu trek seems to forget that section 31 had no infrastructure and was for the most part just a bunch of assholes (potentially just a singular asshole) running around causing shit for what they personally believe is in the federations best interest, far from the official starfleet sanctioned shadow organisation they portray it as.
Just another in the long list of things aped from DS9 with no understanding of why it worked in the first place.

Well shiver me timbers.
A dark and mysterious organisation, that may or may not pull strings from behind the curtains, works better the less the audience knows about its structure, scale, mode of operation, supporting structure and goals? Who would have guessed, right? Certainly not whoever's raping Star Trek nowadays.

All joking aside, nuTrek writers literally think making "oooOOOOoooh" noises in the background is what makes mysterious things mysterious... while they explain every little detail about whatever is supposed to be so mysterious. And just to add that tiny little extra bit of fuckery, they construct their super sekrit mega-club of assholes in such a way that their actions are counterproductive to their supposed goals, they neither fit into the established lore nor into the plot that they are supposed to be a part of and none of their actions taken in the first act of the story-arc lines up with anything that happens in the last part of the story-arc.

It's surreal to see that literally every large franchise is nowadays operating under the "fly by the seat of our pants" method, where nothing is planned out ahead.

 

[Ishtar]

DS9 is good but it did lay the groundwork for the whole “the federation actually sucks and is not a utopia and humanity is just a day away from being as bad as any alien empire”.

This wasn’t the case in DS9, but DS9’s deconstruction of Rodenberryian optimism did allow future trek installments an opening to do far worse.

 

[HarryHowler]

Supposedly it was baked into the Federation charter. But since we never see the founding document, it could just be a clause that Sloan picked up on.

Section 31 actually predated the Federation itself, if Enterprise is anything to go by. Personally I like to think it started out as a glorified black ops team that was able to get resources because its leaders had either friends in high places or damaging info on someone high up in Starfleet command, and managed to get itself written into the Federation charter because Starfleet found out about the Tal'Shiar during the Romulan War, and realized that whether they liked it or not, they were going to need something similar to survive in the galactic landscape.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

I personally didn't really care for the whole Dominion war plot line. I prefer my Trek Noblebright and not Grimderp.

Too much now a days is all dark and gritty and believe it or not it does affect our culture..with nothing but dark, despairing depictions of humanity's future is it any wonder people in general feel like the world is worse off now?

Not that TNG was unwilling to shit on humanity but they did it a hell of a lot less and usually for a good thematic reason. Not just hurr durr mankind bad like STD and STP

One thing that always bothered me though...

When Picard chose to not infect Hugh with the virus did he not realize how he was condemning possibly trillions of life forms to be assimilated by the Borg? His inaction on moral grounds results in the Borg continuing to rampage through the Delta Quadrant assimilating species left and right and all because one self-righteous human decided that he gets to choose whats best for everyone.

That always bugged me.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

When Picard chose to not infect Hugh with the virus did he not realize how he was condemning possibly trillions of life forms to be assimilated by the Borg? His inaction on moral grounds results in the Borg continuing to rampage through the Delta Quadrant assimilating species left and right and all because one self-righteous human decided that he gets to choose whats best for everyone.

That always bugged me.

Idk why Picard wasn't court-martialled for that (tho understandably the writers didn't want to revisit The Drumhead). It's like if a couple of years after 911 a US Navy captain found an Al Queda guy who could be used to help unravel the whole organization, and made a pompous speech about human rights or something and let him go free.

Instead he just got midly chewed out later by Admiral Bitchface:

Admiral Alynna Nechayev : Captain, I've read the report you submitted to Admiral Brooks last year... regarding the Borg you named Hugh. And I've been trying to figure out why you let him go.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : I thought I made my reasons clear.

Admiral Alynna Nechayev : As I understand it, you found an injured Borg at a crash site, brought it aboard the Enterprise. Studied it. Analysed it. And then eventually, found a way to send it back to the Borg with a program that would have destroyed the entire Collective once and for all. But instead, you nursed the Borg back to health, treated it like a guest, gave it a name and then sent it home. Why?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Once Hugh was separated from the Borg Collective he began to grow and evolve into something other than an automaton. He became a person. When that happened, I felt I had no choice but to respect his rights as an individual.

Admiral Alynna Nechayev : Of course you had a choice. You could have taken the opportunity to rid the Federation of a mortal enemy. One that has killed tens of thousands of innocent people and may kill even more.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : No-one is more aware of the danger than I am. But I am also bound by my oath and my conscience to uphold certain principles. And I will not sacrifice them in order to...

Admiral Alynna Nechayev : [interrupting] Your priority is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens. Not to wrestle with your conscience. Now I want to make it clear, that if you have a similar opportunity in the future... an opportunity to destroy the Borg... you are under orders to take advantage of it. Is that understood?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : [rising from his desk] Yes sir.

I mean, she was right, but she'd have been even more right to relieve the guy of duty and put him on trial for assisting an enemy.

It's an example of Picard at his self-righteous worst (the other time was when he wanted to let a giant world-eating cannibal space crystal freely roam the galaxy). Now, you may find DS9 to be grimderp, but it was a lot more realistic about the stakes in war and the evil men must do to win them. Sisko wouldn't have let Hugh go.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Sisko wouldn't have let Hugh go.

The "Roddenberry Box" was a real thing.

DS9 was not the flagship show. And Majel wrote a letter in Starlog condemning DS9, anyways.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

He believed the Borg could be reformed. Which ultimately proved correct (in "Descent"). It wasn't until FC that the Borg were restored to factory settings, as all bad guys are.

Sure, but it was dumb writing.

The Borg are a totalitarian collectivist techno-cult that's been around for a long time and enslaved trillions. You'd think their ability to make sure resistance is futile is a lot more developed than one goofy drone's brand new personality. Can't have been the first time one of their crew got separated.

Both options in I, Borg seemed pretty weak. Infecting them with a computer virus based on one of those magic eye pictures shouldn't have worked either - pretty sure the Borg have Windows Defender.

Voyager had an interesting idea for the Borg with Unamatrix Zero. A lot more could've been done with the idea of how Borg perception differs from reality - like, what if their entire existence was an MMO or something to keep them docile? While they're doing horrible, genocidey things that terrorize the galaxy, the average drone's perception filters make him think he's the hero.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Voyager had an interesting idea for the Borg with Unamatrix Zero. A lot more could've been done with the idea of how Borg perception differs from reality

 

[Ishtar]

The Borg are collectively redeemed...sort of in the destiny novels.

 

[Great President of McHell]

Sure, but it was dumb writing.

The Borg are a totalitarian collectivist techno-cult that's been around for a long time and enslaved trillions. You'd think their ability to make sure resistance is futile is a lot more developed than one goofy drone's brand new personality. Can't have been the first time one of their crew got separated.

Both options in I, Borg seemed pretty weak. Infecting them with a computer virus based on one of those magic eye pictures shouldn't have worked either - pretty sure the Borg have Windows Defender.

Voyager had an interesting idea for the Borg with Unamatrix Zero. A lot more could've been done with the idea of how Borg perception differs from reality - like, what if their entire existence was an MMO or something to keep them docile? While they're doing horrible, genocidey things that terrorize the galaxy, the average drone's perception filters make him think he's the hero.

This episode would have worked better if the stakes were just a single borg cube, I agree the concept that a virus or some shit could obliterate the entire collective is stupid but Hugh just being able to fuck up his own cube might have made more sense. Starfleet would likely still have given Picard heat to use Hugh as a weapon even if that was the case because their last encounter with a single cube ended up getting an entire fleet obliterated (sorry sisko) and Picard's objection to such a thing would be a little more understandable.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

The Borg are collectively redeemed...sort of in the destiny novels.

Yah I hate that fact

I don't know why writers can't just let a villain be a villain. They always have to humanize and redeem them, always.

The Borg were awesome and terrifying as a totally alien mindset. A complete antithesis of humanity and thus almost unfathomable. But noooo, here's the Borg Queen and she's totally hot for Data and Picard. So stupid. All the mystery and fear is gone as the Borg are just another funny colored human. Such a waste of an iconic villain.

Same for Q

He should have stayed as a unknowable rogue, omnipotent and all powerful. Is he here to help? Is he just here to fuck with us? Who knows? Who can know as the Q are as beyond humanity as we are beyond ants. But wait! Here's Q pal'ing around with Vashj and letting Sisko punch him. Even better he's helping Janeway now and getting his wai-fu pregant cuz that's totally something a post-physcial being would do and showing humans how the Q are pretty much the same as them by getting bored of life and wanted to die. They completely destroy his importance, his menace and his mystery by dumb'ing him down to our level.

Fuck, I refuse to think of Q as anything other then he appeared in "All Good Things.." which he was perfect in. Full of menace and mystery. Is he causing this event? Is it another test? Is he serious this time? It was bang on.

 

[HumanHive]

DS9 is good but it did lay the groundwork for the whole “the federation actually sucks and is not a utopia and humanity is just a day away from being as bad as any alien empire”.

This wasn’t the case in DS9, but DS9’s deconstruction of Rodenberryian optimism did allow future trek installments an opening to do far worse.

I disagree, Nu Trek was always going to happen. Current year politics are all about tearing shit down, while DS9 was about making the Federation more relatable and not some 60’s era utopian wetdream.