Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

♦️ King of Diamonds ♦️ said:
Read Joseph De Maistre or alot of the classical "Counter-Enlightenment" if you want a debate regarding "the consent of the governed". I despise Marxist and Wahhabist schools of thought because I believe that religious persecution by the state is quite possibly the most evil thing a government can do (like how the Mormons and Natives were treated by the US government) but I still read Marxist philosophers to get an idea of why they believe what they believe. "first rule of war- know thy enemy". Opinions are like assholes because everybody's got one- but looking at the behavior of the vast majority of Americans (and people in the EU) today makes me believe that universal voting rights is a terrible idea. Even the hyperbole example set by Starship Troopers where only those who had already provided a number of years to the civil service had the right to vote sounds like a better idea than having people like the Qanon shaman have the same amount of political clout as someone like Elon Musk.
Click to expand...
if you're a neoabsolutist I just want to say you guys are probably the smartest part of the right that isn't just straight up manipulating crypto. Seriously, big brains over there. If you're on the more orthodoxy/monarchy/neoreactionary side of the spectrum that's another matter. The problem with everything those people have to say about politics is in how little they have to say about changing the present situation in any way whatsoever. Its like they're trying to seduce a woman through chess skill. Most of them are doing well financially so maybe their distant view is the result of distance between themselves and poverty. Either way if you want to give reading assignments instead of making an argument, I can't imagine you really believe in anything at all. There is nowhere near enough dressing in your post to justify so much salad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ♦️ King of Diamonds ♦️
Protistology said:
So your advice is "become a violent criminal = self-improvement"? I don't get it.
Click to expand...
My advice is just to tease, flirt and try to have fun. And to have a fencing master's grace in the face of shit tests. But I well understand why this is counterintuitive for a lot of men who've been raised by a feminist society to see such things as basically criminal (inb4 hur dur binary thinking). An actual criminal would likely have no such qualms or neuroticism, and this is borne out in the stats. Society/ culture is at cross purposes in terms of sexuality and other measures of success/ politeness/ manners. Sexuality isn't nice and it is wholly innocent to tie it to the deep profundity of love from the get go - and to be super nervous as a result. To then see that nervousness be represented as grapey/ creepy is the ultimate incongruity in this discussion (as balanced against the naughtiness of flirting). i.e just not getting that it's about the banter.

Unless you've got some older cousin or something to give good natured guidance at the age of 13 you're probably screwed if you're functional, nice and missing the flirt gene. Sexuality and violence are both animalistic, and in many ways at odds with the polite, mannered societies we live in. It's completely understandable that otherwise functional meek men would fail in this arena where criminals would not. Heterosexual flirting is where gendered roles are most manifest and if you've been telling boys such things are bad their whole lives, without conceding this utmost threshold, you're actually wantonly harmful imo.

Women - don't sexually harass us. Don't be nice. Don't be nasty. Don't act nervous you patriarchal oppressor. Shit test, shit test, shit test, Goldilocks zone etc...
Chads - dude it's obvious. You're like someone trying to feed themselves by shovelling food into their ass. How can you not get it?
Just past the post normies - dude make the best of yourself, work hard on your social skills and you too might be rewarded by the magical gift of some vaguely resentful woman.

Is it any wonder boys raised to shut up, do as they're told, be nice and maybe they'll get a cookie, don't suddenly manifest into some bastion of assertive big dick Chad energy upon reaching adulthood? Where is the crossover spelled out? This problem is entirely predictable and entirely unaddressed by almost everyone outside of gross PUA manosphere culture. It is the ultimate gatekeeping, not least because of the basic misunderstanding of the crossover existing in the most tiny of moments.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: Ambidextype, scallion, Bananadana and 2 others
Johan Hulth said:
My advice is just to tease, flirt and try to have fun. And to have a fencing master's grace in the face of shit tests. But I well understand why this is counterintuitive for a lot of men who've been raised by a feminist society to see such things as basically criminal (inb4 hur dur binary thinking). An actual criminal would likely have no such qualms or neuroticism, and this is borne out in the stats. Society/ culture is at cross purposes in terms of sexuality and other measures of success/ politeness/ manners. Sexuality isn't nice and it is wholly innocent to tie it to the deep profundity of love from the get go - and to be super nervous as a result. To then see that nervousness be represented as grapey/ creepy is the ultimate incongruity in this discussion (as balanced against the naughtiness of flirting). i.e just not getting that it's about the banter.

Unless you've got some older cousin or something to give good natured guidance at the age of 13 you're probably screwed if you're functional, nice and missing the flirt gene. Sexuality and violence are both animalistic, and in many ways at odds with the polite, mannered societies we live in. It's completely understandable that otherwise functional meek men would fail in this arena where criminals would not. Heterosexual flirting is where gendered roles are most manifest and if you've been telling boys such things are bad their whole lives, without conceding this utmost threshold, you're actually wantonly harmful imo.

Women - don't sexually harass us. Don't be nice. Don't be nasty. Don't act nervous you patriarchal oppressor. Shit test, shit test, shit test, Goldilocks zone etc...
Chads - dude it's obvious. You're like someone trying to feed themselves by shovelling food into their ass. How can you not get it?
Just past the post normies - dude make the best of yourself, work hard on your social skills and you too might be rewarded by the magical gift of some vaguely resentful woman.

Is it any wonder boys raised to shut up, do as they're told, be nice and maybe they'll get a cookie, don't suddenly manifest into some bastion of assertive big dick Chad energy upon reaching adulthood? Where is the crossover spelled out? This problem is entirely predictable and entirely unaddressed by almost everyone outside of gross PUA manosphere culture. It is the ultimate gatekeeping, not least because of the basic misunderstanding of the crossover existing in the most tiny of moments.
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty crazy how some of the left sees only 2 binaries of sex - extreme misogyny and harassment VS sexual empowerment(just follow your feels)/gender clowning. When men see they’re somewhere in the middle there’s hardly any resources and they go to mr. pua.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AMHOLIO
Knight of the Rope said:
Hey @WillToMonke remember that time you tried to convince us with a study that said roughly 27% of men under 30 hadn't had sex since 18, but then you check their source and it says that the 27% was for people who hadn't had sex in the last 365 days instead? That was a fucking embarrassing gaffe and I'm not going to let you live it down.
Click to expand...
Remember when you had an extremely naive view of morality based on archaic Judeo Christianity and kept looking for ass pats from the collective society because it takes actual attention to form your own moral code? Can’t wait to see your house get robbed or something else which is with zoomer’s amorality and anhedonia.
 
Last edited:
  • Feels
Reactions: Knight of the Rope
To carry on from what I said earlier, someone responded that no one knows or cares about you or anyone else being a virgin unless of course they’re told.

To clarify, it’s not so much external social expectation, as it is internalized expectation.

Young men in the contexts I described may not be mocked by their co workers for not getting laid, but they themselves feel inadequate, worthless, and having failed to reach some sort of milestone of manhood if they haven’t.

The pressure society exerts over young men to get laid if they want to be seen as actually men-is internalized by men. It’s not something that requires constant external social pressure.

So much of the “incel” angst comes from internal doubts and feelings of inadequacy or failure or lack of self respect. Men unlike women are far more sensitive to their internal judgements, “I’m worthless”, “I’m a loser”, “I’m not ever gonna get with a girl”, “maybe I’m just ugly”, “I’m 25 and haven’t had sex, am I a failure or did I do something wrong?”

This isn’t something that requires external input-but is something men feel inside their own heads. This would not be the case if such socially enforced norms and expectations did not exist-or were at least not as severe.
 
  • Informative
  • Like
  • Feels
Reactions: Ambidextype, Apis mellifera, Ughubughughughughughghlug and 6 others
I have a letter to anyone who is a legitimate incel.

It gets better my friend you as a male are blessed with the fact once you turn into an adult until the day you die minus erectile dysfunction/people who are impotent. You as a man can start a family in your 40s and 50s. Ladies do not have that advantage what soever.

I get alot of you feel like the dating game is rigged. Most of y'all were probably raised in a hyper feminized society and we're told things like violence isn't the answer, or boys need to be quiet in class. Things like that aren't healthy to your development. You don't need to be pumped on methamphetamine to function in schools.

There is another way it's called taking the long game. Because you can wait it out in the dating game. Sally can spend her 20s getting all the dick she wants but once she turns 30 men stop looking at and simping for Sally and start looking for someone younger or find another person of interest.
 
  • Disagree
  • Agree
Reactions: Apis mellifera, Eydallur and Homegrown Homophobia
Legit just devote yourself to something other than getting pussy. Whether it’s your own career or hobbies-or religion(ideally). Or political work or whatever.

Discipline and devotion-to something else, something more-is the expression of what men are called by God and by Nature to do.
 
  • Feels
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: Ambidextype, Apis mellifera, CiaphasCain and 4 others
Hm, there's a german biologist, Meike Stoverock, who wrote a book on "Female Choice". According to her it's good and natural and desirable to overcome the "male society" but going all in on the female choice for partners, resulting in the classic "20% of the men get all the pussy". In her ideal world there's no actual family, children are basically raised by their mothers with the help of aunts and friends and supported by the non-sexually-desirable men. Also, no monogamous relationships, just women picking up men whenever they want. At the same time she agrees that only 20% of the men will ever get some, so those 20% men will be quite busy. Sounds like a great world for supreme alpha chads like me, bad news for all the beta cucks. They get to pay for the children, at least. And somehow she appears to think that men don't have their own will there. Those top 20%, do they get to choose? If so, doesn't she realize that those top 20% can suddenly be just as picky? Oh well.
And while she's all about telling young boys that it's absolutely fine and normal that they'll likely never get any, she does have a heart for incels: She also advocates for public-healthcare-financed prostitution and sex robots so all the incels don't do badthink things like getting drawn towards conservative parties and movements.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Apis mellifera and Male Idiot
Meriasek said:
Hm, there's a german biologist, Meike Stoverock, who wrote a book on "Female Choice".
Click to expand...
Ok, and?

Speaking of barely related scientifically-adjacent theorizing, you reminded me, there is some psychological theory supposing that humans are "serial-monogamists" meaning that they hook up and break up in spans of time roughly related to a period where a child would be born, and would pass the most critical stages of growth (where it needs the most protection and creates the "ego"). That's not to say any child has to happen in a relationship for it to naturally erode in that amount of time, its more if an explanation of trends, and a pretty rough one.

If i were to give advice to incels id tell them to burry the idea of "everlasting romance" where they hook up with a "pure" 18yo and live happily together until death.
But of course, if i were to give advice to incels id tell them to get over their inferiority complexes first since that's the only thing that would actually work.

Seriously, i don't want to shit on all the "good advice" i've seen popping up itt but its all useless since it doesn't actually solve the underlying issue, just maybe its effects. Imo absolutely worthless, good effort tho, proud of you :feels:
 
Incels are just the result of a shift in society and technology, related to coomers.

We had these three always. Chad was the alpha whose massive cock and prowess won him the best women. Virgin was someone for whom women not good enough to worth Chad's cock could settle for. And then there was the mighty Coomer, who coomed in every woman, farm animal and Rosie Palms he could find, hoping that at least some would stick.

In the cavemen times, this worked. Chad couldn't be everywhere, and Coomer was there to quickly shoot a load. Virgin got the ugliest cave-girl and managed to subsist.

In the civilised but less technological era, marriage and religion entered the play. Chad seldom got the big harem he had in caveman era, and times were the best for Virgin, as he could usually get a woman for himself.
Coomer was cooming in the cow, the prostitutes, and whatever conquered woman he could find in the army. Some of those bore him more than enough bastards to be successful.

Than in the modern world, two new factors upset the balance by introducing contraception and abolishing marriage.
The world has come to full circle, with now Chad being dominant once more as he gets all the pussy.

Virgin can no longer rely on marriage and is thus fucked, and turns to Inceldom.
Coomer can no longer rely on impregnating whores and unfaithful wives (even if he does fuck them, condom-kun ruins his coom), but he can beat off to internet porn now so he is happy. So Coomer cooms, but his reproductive strategy no longer produces offsprings.
Women too ugly for chad become feminists, and now they got Tyrone to mudshark or well, there is always dogs and cats. Feminism's rabid hatred of motherhood only helps them weed themselves out.

There are two resolutions here.
Either simply Virgin and Coomer accept inceldom and only Chads remain after they die out.
Or they take the means of reproduction under their control.

Incels are thus presented two options, accepting extinction or resetting the clock. Darwin leaves no more options. Personally I think they'll just die out and only the fittest will reproduce.
Human population size is big enough to survive a 90% genetic diversity cut, this would only be an issue if we had very small communities where such a genetic loss would lead to inbreeding.

So incels are on borrowed time, and it will run out by the end of the century. Nature is a bitch.
 
  • Autistic
  • Informative
Reactions: Tragon Dirtle, Apis mellifera and Francesco Dellamorte
LeChampion1992 said:
You as a man can start a family in your 40s and 50s.
Click to expand...
100% do not do this though unless you want to raise genetically fucked children. By the time you're in your 50s your DNA has already started to break down and produce flaws that you'll pass on to your potential children. Just adopt.

I think the problem with some incels may legitimately be that they're coping for latent homosexuality--they're so repressed that rather than admit they want to fuck dudes they'd rather more conveniently blame their lack of sex on women. But I'm no expert, just my two cents.
 
  • Agree
  • Disagree
  • Feels
Reactions: Tragon Dirtle, Apis mellifera, Bananadana and 7 others
Truman the Jewman said:
I think the problem with some incels may legitimately be that they're coping for latent homosexuality--they're so repressed that rather than admit they want to fuck dudes they'd rather more conveniently blame their lack of sex on women. But I'm no expert, just my two cents.
Click to expand...
I've known some incels. Every one I've met has been 110% autistic.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: Knight of the Rope, Holiday of no return, Sailor Kim Jong Moon and 1 other person
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back