General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[Scuttle]

I think his wording just made it sound as if HL wasnt hiring talented streamers and just coasting it on their name

Which to an extent, its somewhat true that the brand power is high, but at the same time, streaming groups are pretty much reliant on the talents being talented, theres no such a thing as a brand provided free lunch and it shows with creators within HL and Niji (some exceptions apply ofc), they get the brand boost, but almost all content has to be provided and made by them

Right. You'd have to completely ignore the years of hard work and portfolio building of these people before they got accepted into Hololive to imply they don't deserve it, but all he's saying here is that the success is guaranteed, which nowadays it is. It's really not negotiable.

Because what Connor said is simply not true. You think Hololive has this level of success simply because they're lucky? No, it's because the talents are willing to learn and improve themselves, with some savvy strategy taken by the company/management. Opening up a new branch for what is basically an uncharted market is a very risky move, and HoloEN only managed to pulled it off because the HoloMyths members are talented, and the company is willing to give them their full support. If all that it took is just some luck, then why can't Nijisanji with their first iteration of NijiEN, the Niji India failed? There's a reason why the other Holomems admired the HoloMyth, even calling them the "Genius Generation".

And if you think anyone can be successful as long as they're part of Hololive, just look at Kiara's numbers now, and also Anya. Their growth suffered a lot because of the mistake both of their own faults and also of the company's. Kiara for being the numberfagging menhera she is, and Anya because she didn't give a fuck at what she's doing.

Putting Holo's success purely on "luck" or "the Lightning in the Bottle Moment" is a massive disservice to the efforts the talents did to improve themselves. Would Subaru became as big as she is now if not for her hardwork? Would Pekora can keep her growth were if not for her almost daily long streams? Same thing is also attributing their success solely because they're "Hololive". Literally almost no one have ever heard of their name before last year, even more people know of Nijisanji than Holo back then.

(Also contributing to Holo's success is the fans, fanworks, and also the clippers, but that's a story for another time)

You wrote all this because you think I said they got in based on luck when I didn't. No one said this. No one is arguing that. Please read.

 

[Fougaro]

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

but all he's saying here is that the success is guaranteed, which nowadays it is. It's really not negotiable.

tbh i would agree as we havent seen anyone really be that much of an exception, low numbers aside the niche talents still pull some weight in dedicated supas, but id still say that it would still have a chance of failure if the talents dont put in the work for whatever reason, but in my opinion there hasnt been a 100% lazy creator, all the scuff is more about technical issues than negligence, and so far all the breaks have been more than justified

so yeah i concede to that, but i still think the way he said it was more than retarded and salty

 

[Rezza]

Right. You'd have to completely ignore the years of hard work and portfolio building of these people before they got accepted into Hololive to imply they don't deserve it, but all he's saying here is that the success is guaranteed, which nowadays it is. It's really not negotiable.



You wrote all this because you think I said they got in based on luck when I didn't. No one said this. No one is arguing that. Please read.

Did you not read the part where I said being i Holo doesn't always mean a success, with an example of someone like Anya that is barely remembered by anyone? Besides, and I said this again, brand power alone can't help you if your content/products are shite. If brand power is everything, then why Nijisanji failed to achieve the international success that Hololive has beack when their brand power dwarfed Hololive (which everyone agree did happen)?

Your example of Calli's songs are also wrong. Her music didn't take off as Demondice because her genre's is so niche with very little marketing, especially for a gaijin like her. And during her initial time as Calli, Holo's number is nothing compared to their number now, which only made her first success as a proof of her talent. If Calli's success are only due to Holo's name, you think musicians like InoueTaku and such would agree to work with her?

 

[Beeg Snake]

I hate Connor and think he's a faggot but he isn't really wrong. Hololive IS instant success and arguing the contrary is ludicrous. Kronii earned $50,000 within two weeks and regularly earns more in one stream than an average person gets in a week of 9-5. Kiara is on the verge of being a millionaire despite having been in and out the idol industry for a decade+. Calli is topping charts despite her style being exactly the same as it's always been.

I have no context for why he brought it up, but here he isn't saying it's a bad thing, and he isn't saying that people in Hololive ARE mediocre streamers — just that the brand power is so strong that even hiring someone who is no good at what they do would still rake it in. He's not (necessarily) saying that's what's happening in reality.

I think it's mostly the fact the way he worded it like people have already said in this thread that he isn't exactly wrong but at the same time a lot of the girls involved in Hololive were already talented and in some cases very successful before they joined up. Did a quick count and 32 of the hololive members are in the top 100 for earnings on playboard with more superchats. What Connor isn't taking into account from that clip is that a lot of those members have been in Hololive for a good couple of years and barely made any money before the big boom 2020 with vtubers in the west and the whole lockdown keeping folk inside. Yeah now if you join Hololive you will be give instant success but you need to keep quality content coming out or people will look elsewhere and the money will dry up.

The reason I am pissed at what he said is that it is quite clear Ironmouse wasn't comfortable with the question cause we all know what the folks over in /vt/ are like with their rrats and on /r/hololive where her even answering it would have made the hugbox explode into them probably going "fuck vshoujo n sheeeeit". Connor quite clearly wasn't thinking the ramification that kind of question can have on vshoujo if they want to collab again with Hololive considering the roadblocks they had to go through to get the last ones with Kiara and Nyanners along with Ironmouse and Mori. I think nothing will happen long term but the rrats will always pop up regardless.

 

[Hotdogs Aplenty]

If Calli's success are only due to Holo's name, you think musicians like InoueTaku and such would agree to work with her?

Its all about the yen.

 

[Just a Basic Plebian]

Spoiler: Just my two cents on the Connor issue

Hololive's branding can only bring you so far. The leap of faith done by COVER Corp to establish an EN branch really made them catch lightning in a bottle, let alone hiring the outstanding talents that also synergizes with one another, together with the essence of time. Its the streamer's effort and perseverance, with a bit of luck, that makes every member successful in their own way. We've just recently seen Kronii tell how it isn't just easy-peasy on her end, and how stressful it is when she considers herself lazy/slacker. On his take, its like he is not thinking through his words as if he hasn't learned experienced how Japanese corpos handle recruitments, screenings, and trainings to applicants. It is too easy for him to say that just because he got off easy and is seeing just the tip of the iceberg; how about watch some HoloJP or better yet, talk to his adoring fan Ollie about the issue and how she is managing it.

Easy for him to say when all he does is stream, play games, collab, and just do recording shit. Oh wait, its like he is an idol too except he is british, penis-haver, has a different contract, and streams irl; also, what a prick to have such privileges to say that.

tldr: Branding can only bring you as far as you go but its the dedication, perseverance, personality, appeal, and a little bit of luck that makes a holomem relatively successful. He speaks before he actually thinks, and he doesn't think his takes and actions affect mouse. Its easy for him to say things since he didn't go through typical japanese corpo recruitment and experience, even though he basically almost do the same things, except being a real persona and a penis-haver.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Did you not read the part where I said being i Holo doesn't always mean a success, with an example of someone like Anya that is barely remembered by anyone?

Even Anya is in the top 100 female vtubers by subscriber count, and ID is a more niche market than JP or EN.

 

[Diya]

View attachment 2666837
Saving this for future generations to come.
No it isn't recent.

Okay, all the hate for him suddenly justified. And he complained that he can't collab with Hololive anymore lmao. Imagine calling them "Not necessirily a good streamer and still get instant success." and still want to clout chasing them.

 

[ThatDumbPhilosopher]

Is it? I waste so much time playing shit like WoW. Probably overall I have wasted more than 1 years worth of my life on that stupid fucking game.

When you have a healthy lifestyle you are grateful if you have 1 to 2 hours in order to play everyday.

 

[paule]

Have some HoloBirds

 

[Kill Your Idols]

I don't get what's the problem with what he said. Maybe im exceptional but what drama is there to take from what he said? That some of the girls are getting carried by the company and not by their talent?

It's not a lie to say that Hololive can be a ticket to success, but the implication that "you don't even have to be a good streamer" once you're in is incredibly stupid phrasing to me.

Think of it this way. Nobody ever evokes the brand name unless they're trying to imply that people eat up whatever that brand is attached to. It's like complaining about Disney or Nintendo consoomers, you're specifically bitter that people will flock to their products on name alone and not because of the quality. And that's not to say you can't be, there's valid reason to dislike that consumerist mindset, but he just sounds like a faggot trying to dance around how he feels about Hololive or a specific streamer while also dragging Ironmouse into his own opinion. If he has some issue with Hololive, he can just say it on his social media and face the fallout on his own, don't fucking bring it up on another person's channel and then try to act coy about it.

 

[Scuttle]

Did you not read the part where I said being i Holo doesn't always mean a success, with an example of someone like Anya that is barely remembered by anyone? Besides, and I said this again, brand power alone can't help you if your content/products are shite. If brand power is everything, then why Nijisanji failed to achieve the international success that Hololive has beack when their brand power dwarfed Hololive (which everyone agree did happen)?

Your example of Calli's songs are also wrong. Her music didn't take off as Demondice because her genre's is so niche with very little marketing, especially for a gaijin like her. And during her initial time as Calli, Holo's number is nothing compared to their number now, which only made her first success as a proof of her talent. If Calli's success are only due to Holo's name, you think musicians like InoueTaku and such would agree to work with her?

> Why didn't brand power carry Nijisanji in the West or India?

Because they had no brand power in the West and India. It's not hard.

> DemonDice's music was niche with very little marketing.

Ding ding ding.

I mean at this point I'm convinced you're wilfully not listening to what I've said. I think Calli is super talented. I have made posts here talking about how much I deeply respect her as a Creative. I think everyone in HoloEN is at least competent at what they do. I did not say they are lucky, lacking talent, or undeserving of their place in the company.

Anya is still a massive channel, and still pulls in 6-10x the viewers of most of NijiID and Maha5 who are her direct competitors; so it's very ironic you argue she failed and isn't remembered by anyone to say metric success isn't guaranteed, whilst still being in the Top 100 of subscribed V-Tubers and Top 6 of ID livers (the other 5 all belonging to...never mind).

I think it's mostly the fact the way he worded it like people have already said in this thread that he isn't exactly wrong but at the same time a lot of the girls involved in Hololive were already talented and in some cases very successful before they joined up. Did a quick count and 32 of the hololive members are in the top 100 for earnings on playboard with more superchats. What Connor isn't taking into account from that clip is that a lot of those members have been in Hololive for a good couple of years and barely made any money before the big boom 2020 with vtubers in the west and the whole lockdown keeping folk inside. Yeah now if you join Hololive you will be give instant success but you need to keep quality content coming out or people will look elsewhere and the money will dry up.

The reason I am pissed at what he said is that it is quite clear Ironmouse wasn't comfortable with the question cause we all know what the folks over in /vt/ are like with their rrats and on /r/hololive where her even answering it would have made the hugbox explode into them probably going "fuck vshoujo n sheeeeit". Connor quite clearly wasn't thinking the ramification that kind of question can have on vshoujo if they want to collab again with Hololive considering the roadblocks they had to go through to get the last ones with Kiara and Nyanners along with Ironmouse and Mori. I think nothing will happen long term but the rrats will always pop up regardless.

Yeah, he worded it like an exceptional individual and almost jeopardised Mousey to get his opinion out. Connor is an insufferable prick with absolutely no redeeming qualities as an entertainer. You could argue that Trash Taste being a successful podcast despite being hosted by unlikeable, talentless cunts is the peak of hypocrisy for what he's saying.

 

[danny jr]

> Why didn't brand power carry Nijisanji in the West or India?

Because they had no brand power in the West and India. It's not hard.

> DemonDice's music was niche with very little marketing.

Ding ding ding.

I mean at this point I'm convinced you're wilfully not listening to what I've said. I think Calli is super talented. I have made posts here talking about how much I deeply respect her as a Creative. I think everyone in HoloEN is at least competent at what they do. I did not say they are lucky, lacking talent, or undeserving of their place in the company.

Anya is still a massive channel, and still pulls in 6-10x the viewers of most of NijiID and Maha5 who are her direct competitors; so it's very ironic you argue she failed and isn't remembered by anyone to say metric success isn't guaranteed, whilst still being in the Top 100 of subscribed V-Tubers and Top 6 of ID livers (the other 5 all belonging to...never mind).



Yeah, he worded it like an exceptional individual and almost jeopardised Mousey to get his opinion out. Connor is an insufferable prick with absolutely no redeeming qualities as an entertainer. You could argue that Trash Taste being a successful podcast despite being hosted by unlikeable, talentless cunts is the peak of hypocrisy for what he's saying.

I can't tell if Gigguk or Conner is worse lol.

 

[augment]

One of the highlights of yesterday's collabs was finding out IRyS doesn't know who Shaggy is

 

[Scuttle]

I can't tell if Gigguk or Conner is worse lol.

Gigguk at least tries to make content that is somewhat entertaining and I used to enjoy his 'Anime in 20XX' videos. He was fine playing with Calli. His only downside is that he indirectly brought Hajime Hime into this world.

Connor is out here causing problems for Mousey bc he can't shut the fuck up, always talks shit about Japanese people and Japanese culture despite living there, generally has this air that everything he says is the absolute truth. He is unbearable.

 

[masterstocking]

Very...odd pieces by waterkuma. I assume the other EN girls might eventually get this treatment, will post if they do come up.

 

[reinigen]

was Selens RE2 stream any good? watching her Dead Space stream and you could tell she not as energetic as she usally is. just how much did she scream? she's gonna complete dead space 2 on hard mode. what a legend!

RE2 stream was great. And if you're talking about her Dead Space 2 stream, I think she was having technical difficulties with the version from Origin she initially installed, but switched to the Steam version. And was a bit flustered by that.

View attachment 2666837
Saving this for future generations to come.
No it isn't recent.

The reason I am pissed at what he said is that it is quite clear Ironmouse wasn't comfortable with the question cause we all know what the folks over in /vt/ are like with their rrats and on /r/hololive where her even answering it would have made the hugbox explode into them probably going "fuck vshoujo n sheeeeit". Connor quite clearly wasn't thinking the ramification that kind of question can have on vshoujo if they want to collab again with Hololive considering the roadblocks they had to go through to get the last ones with Kiara and Nyanners along with Ironmouse and Mori. I think nothing will happen long term but the rrats will always pop up regardless.

I dont' mind Connor that much, but this is basically my thoughts on the situation as well. It's not that he's right or wrong. It's that in the environment that vTubers occupy, especially ones in the Japanese business world, you don't vocalize the thought at all publicly so as to maintain a cordial business atmosphere. ESPECIALLY when you're running your mouth on another person's channel/platform. Now Mousey is caught in the crossfire too, and she handled it exceptionally well all things considered.

This was the exact same thing that bit Kiara in the ass back in the day. It doesn't matter to Japanese businesses that everything she said about the shitty work environment, the stalking, and her crappy treatment were true. This isn't an American business where you can air the dirty laundry like that and have the public perception make sure you have no major problems afterwords. Japanese companies HATE that shit, right or wrong. You just don't fucking say it.

 

[Takodachi]

Pictures taken before disaster
with Haruna Swift (from the same company as Juliet Winters)

LMAO

 

[Partition Three]

There's no denying Hololive is a Big Brand(tm). Entering Cover's portfolio of talents guarantees a significant amount of eyeballs on you.

Whether or not the eyeballs stay on you is entirely up to the talent themselves. No amount of corporate water carrying can save a shit streamer from themselves.

It takes an exceptional individual to not realize or understand the difference between being given a golden ticket, and being given a map where gold might be buried.