Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[Rose_of_Troon]

Ok let’s clear the air. ‚Troonish’ is not an insult to me. Troons are fucking hot. And most heterosexual men agree with me, like it or not, although they are too ashamed to admit it in public. So that’s that.

second of all it’s not only about cupsize. Obviously it’s not what makes a female person look female. Although many women, troons included, have a WILD and fucked up complex surrounding their breasts.

These women look troonish to me because of their features. A lot of very successful models have androgynous features. Because thats cool and interesting and what costumers want to look like themselves. And troons are androgynous. So it’s really not a huge leap to me.. I’m really sorry if I offended the keira knightly stans and victoria secret fangirls amongst you jk not sorry at all. Get over it

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Ok let’s clear the air. ‚Troonish’ is not an insult to me. Troons are fucking hot. And most heterosexual men agree with me, like it or not, although they are too ashamed to admit it in public. So that’s that.

second of all it’s not only about cupsize. Obviously it’s not what makes a female person look female. Although many women, troons included, have a WILD and fucked up complex surrounding their breasts.

These women look troonish to me because of their features. A lot of very successful models have androgynous features. Because thats cool and interesting and what costumers want to look like themselves. And troons are androgynous. So it’s really not a huge leap to me.. I’m really sorry if I offended the keira knightly stans and victoria secret fangirls amongst you jk not sorry at all. Get over it

My nigga. Are you taking the piss?

 

[esmeggs]

Ok I'm done looking through Claire Michelle's reddit account, I didn't look through absolutely everything but I covered most of everything from the past 5 years. He gives me major narcissist vibes, he's unfathomably self-absorbed and posts every little thing he does in multiple subreddits. Things like his 1 year HRT timeline just come off as unhinged to me- for ex., he starts talking about how he has a groin injury so he couldn't tuck. I really recommend looking through his 6 month timeline (and the 1 year one too) if you want to know a bit about what he's like, but I'll post some highlights below. He dated a woman for a while but after a year or so into his transition he started dating "straight" men, he also discusses how he started cross-dressing when he was young and how he didn't come out until college. I think he might actually be AGP.

 

[Cr1ms0n_&_C10v3r]

Ok let’s clear the air. ‚Troonish’ is not an insult to me. Troons are fucking hot. And most heterosexual men agree with me, like it or not, although they are too ashamed to admit it in public. So that’s that.

second of all it’s not only about cupsize. Obviously it’s not what makes a female person look female. Although many women, troons included, have a WILD and fucked up complex surrounding their breasts.

These women look troonish to me because of their features. A lot of very successful models have androgynous features. Because thats cool and interesting and what costumers want to look like themselves. And troons are androgynous. So it’s really not a huge leap to me.. I’m really sorry if I offended the keira knightly stans and victoria secret fangirls amongst you jk not sorry at all. Get over it

God, I love the insanity this and the ContraPoints thread attracts. It's wonderful.

 

[Futaba]

I have been duped by Claire Michelle - the AGP red lipstick and pitch black eyeliner drawn loosely around the eyes never lies! Concerning Alices hair, yes that is the worst hair ive seen lol also I thought Muslim women were not allowed to show their hair to non family members?

Never change Rose of Troon - your takes are always unexpected if nothing else.

 

[esmeggs]

Last post on this but Claire is definitely AGP- in this thread (IAMA Closet Crossdresser AMA) he says he cross-dresses because it's arousing to him, it's "just a sexual fantasy", and he is heterosexual. (archive)


He dated men because, like Contra, it was part of his autogynephilia.

There are a lot of cross-dressing posts from a decade ago (posts on bras made for men and asking where to buy panties). He's an autogynephile.

 

[Rose_of_Troon]

Last post on this but Claire is definitely AGP- in this thread (IAMA Closet Crossdresser AMA) he says he cross-dresses because it's arousing to him, it's "just a sexual fantasy", and he is heterosexual. (archive)
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He dated men because, like Contra, it was part of his autogynephilia.
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There are a lot of cross-dressing posts from a decade ago (posts on bras made for men and asking where to buy panties). He's an autogynephile.

Are these posts from 10 years ago? She vlogged her SRS journey on YouTube for basically anybody to gawk at. It felt more like a genuine vlog then an educational bit.

 

[The Mad Pirate]

Went through his post/comment history from the past couple years and most of his comments are just sperging in r/transvoices (LOTS of self-promotion and a fair amount of patting himself on the back for being a "business owner", similar to Olly going on about being an "actress"). There were some interesting things though, he was homeless for a while and would rely on foodbanks for food. He had a boyfriend in April of this year, so if he is dating Olly now then that must've been after April and he must have moved on fast. His reddit username stands for "closet crossdresser". I might've missed a few things because I skimmed his comments but here are some of the ones that stood out:

Spoiler: Misc. Reddit Comments

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Admitting to depression after getting his dick chopped off:
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I know some people here said he somewhat passes in photos but he still gets "misgendered" in public, so like all troons he doesn't pass in person.
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He posts a lot of comments in women-oriented subreddits (twoxchromosomes (lmao), askwomen, thegirlsurvivalguide and others). This comment on a post about racism black women face makes it all about him, seems like him and Olly are perfect for one another:
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PLEASE vote for me so I can be the first man in this women's organization to speak over enlighten cis women on art:
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He tried to meme a low-quality short film he made (film/link is nsfw) about being nonbinary:

Spoiler: Cringe

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He also has a podcast if anyone is bored enough to check it out.

I have an even more negative opinion of him after going through his reddit account. If he's not an autogynephile that enjoys inserting himself into women's spaces then he's an incredibly dumb homosexual man. Based on his comment history he seems to mostly (maybe only) date men. I didn't go through everything but this post is already long enough, I'll go through the rest later and make a separate post if there's anything worth noting.

If you stomach it, he has a 40+ min long video about his transition history
Boring 40+ minutes video about Claire transition

He goes about his depression, his homelessness years, cross-dressing habits, etc. He doesn't seem like an HSTS, but more like an autogynophile. But the way, he comments at one point that he was on a relationship with another woman ( he calls her his "first girlfriend" ). So all points out at him being bisexual. He also seems to be quite on the dramatic artistry flair side , which coincidentally is also how Olly is.

 

[esmeggs]

Are these posts from 10 years ago?

Almost all of the cross-dressing posts are from 8-10 years ago. 7 years ago he started posting in r/genderfluid and other trans subreddits questioning his gender identity and posting things like: "Wanting to feel like a woman vs actually being a woman."

Posts like these are from 8-10 years ago:


Posts from 7 years ago where he starts questioning gender identity, and then comes out as a "trans woman" (plus more r/crossdressing posts ofc. These aren't all the posts from 7 years ago, just a sample):


I wish I could stalk his comment history from then but I can only view his comments from up to 4 years ago. If you want a peak into the AGP mindset look at his various essays on walking around Chicago while cross-dressing for the first few times: 1, 2.

I didn't read all of it but here's a quote: "For the first time I stepped out as Claire. It was the most wonderful thing! I got a few stares walking past some people but felt so comfortable, confident, sexy, proud of who I am! and then I got clocked... We arrive on a street corner and two young girls turn their heads and subdue their giggles... My anxiety rose through the roof. I was aware of stares and looks, but the theatre was right around the corner, so I stuck it out and put tried my best to ignore my anxiety and just have fun! After all, we were in boystown "

ETA: Thank you @The Mad Pirate this was a goldmine and finally put to rest whether he's AGP or HSTS, which was something that bothered me a little too much lmao

 

[Rose_of_Troon]

Almost all of the cross-dressing posts are from 8-10 years ago. 7 years ago he started posting in r/genderfluid and other trans subreddits questioning his gender identity and posting things like: "Wanting to feel like a woman vs actually being a woman."
ETA: Thank you @The Mad Pirate this was a goldmine and finally put to rest whether he's AGP or HSTS, which was something that bothered me a little too much lmao

Actually I feel sorry for her because she dates PT. #epicfail

 

[Ophelia Jones]

Actually I feel sorry for her because she dates PT. #epicfail

Nah, their disgusting asses totally deserve eachother.

 

[esmeggs]

Actually I feel sorry for her because she dates PT. #epicfail

I won't lie Claire seems just as narcissistic and just as much of a social climber. I mean have you seen the trailer to his Youtube channel? Deranged levels of unchecked narcissism at play here:

Nah, their disgusting asses totally deserve eachother.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Tombigbee]

I feel like “Claire” is just narcissistic like any reality show contestant is. He’d probably audition for The Real World if that was still a thing.

For me, Oliver is just on a whole other level. His narcissism feels bottomless, even violent. Sociopathic. An ultra-narcissist. Olly implies that Philosophy Tube is helping third world starving children or something like that in his (self written) ad copy for PT. Yeah “Claire’s” trailer is tryhard and cringe but there’s nothing as crazy as that in it.

“Claire” seems like an exuberant, self obsessed, perverted, theater nerd. But maybe I just haven’t seen enough content from “Claire.”

I feel like Olly would never or rarely write about getting clocked. I suspect one reason he (sorta) hid his initial transition is because his narcissism wouldn’t allow being seen in an “ugly duckling” stage. Likewise why he favors pompous BBC energy in his official appearances. He’s not some silly troon, babe, he’s a philosoph-tress. Even the “babe” tic is really a condescending appellation where he cuts his target to the quick with smug banter and verbal truth bombs. He told an interviewer, “I read Shakespeare, babe, I don’t know about that” in response to an innocuous “what are you binge-watching lately?” type question.

“Claire” reminds me more of “Riley,” a moon child ideologue eager to connect and have their kinks validated and enshrined.

But what do I know? I just wanted to reiterate that Olly is an asshole.

 

[narcissistic injury]

Good god.

 

[Rose_of_Troon]

lol red dot in the middle of her face. The cultural appropriation.

If you stomach it, he has a 40+ min long video about his transition history
Boring 40+ minutes video about Claire transition

She seems drunk in this tbh

 

[Tombigbee]

She seems drunk in this tbh

Yeah wtf with that insane manic laughter? We had a bunch of chocolate HAHAHAHAHAH!!! It amazes me that leftists or TrueBelievers or whatever deny the obvious correlation with trans people and mental illness. When you hear and see these troons it’s right there for all to see. The immaturity, the mania, the solipsism. Always a cornucopia of personality disorders and narcissistic traits. The very fact that “Claire” has been publishing his kinks and Gender Journey unabated for nigh on ten years+ speaks volumes. Lack of boundaries = confirmed.

 

[TheBaseline101]

Lily Aldridge is a former Victoria’s Secret angel who has given birth to two children. Keira Knightley is Keira Knightley.

If you think they look “troonish” because flat-chested, please — I don’t know — observe more women. Don’t zero in on breasts or hourglasses. Squint away the details and take in the gestalt. Develop an aesthetic concept of woman based on actual female anatomy in the wild rather than a list of discrete sexually desirable traits.


Great example. When I said skinny, I meant runway model skinny, like BMI 15-16 — a trans woman with that kind of skinny can probably stand to gain. But you’re right that the fat often collects in counterproductive places, so “get skinny” is a useful prescription for 99% of MTFs trying to pass.

I agree to an extent. Sperging follows:
Obviously, not every real woman has the genetics that will ensure she still looks feminine when underweight especially if she already has broad shoulders and narrow hips. The comparisons I see made a lot when comparing trans women to real women is often not quite fair in that the real women who are brought up are almost always the epitome of hitting the genetic jackpot in that they hold on to an hourglass resembling shape when thin or have particularly delicate bone structure. Good examples of this would be Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman in Black Swan where both were underweight but their faces didn't get as gaunt looking as a man's would because of their cheekbones and naturally round features. They also had a very clear waist to hip ratio, something most trans women won't have when thin as most of their hip width will come from fat deposits.
So while "get skinny" may sound like good advice for mtfs, it's not always the case. In Euphoria there are lots of scenes putting Zendaya and Hunter Schafer (one of the better passing ones) next to each other and both look borderline underweight. And while it could be worse, Schafer can't hold a candle to someone with a body like Zendaya's who has naturally broad hips. It's one of the key differences I see between men and women: women almost always carry most of their mass in their legs with the upper half of their body looking thin and delicate in comparison, with men it's the other way around and you can see this difference very well in Zendaya & Schafer. The low weight also makes Schafer's naturally large hands and head look much more obvious.
One of the best passing mtfs I've ever seen of those who started HRT after puberty is Andrej Pejic and you can tell she worked her ass off (or on) at the gym as you can see the direct comparisons of her pre-HRT body vs now online. It still looks somewhat underdeveloped in certain areas but it's obvious she made the effort to target specific areas of the body to make the body she had look as much as a woman's as possible. She looks proportional whereas Hunter Schafer (or Contrapoints for that matter) just looks like a straight line in comparison. Also didn't go overboard with the breast implants like Blaire White did which I agree makes the chest look even more massive compared to the lower half of the body.

Anyway, back to Olly. I really think losing weight and hitting the gym to build muscle in targeted areas would be his best bet. Either that or becoming morbidly obese as the difference is harder to tell in extremely fat bodies too. I'm curious to see what he'll do with breast implants if he ever gets them and hasn't grown bored of it by then. If it's the giant bolt on type, it'll make him look much, much worse.

 

[The Mad Pirate]

Good examples of this would be Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman in Black Swan where both were underweight but their faces didn't get as gaunt looking as a man's would because of their cheekbones and naturally round features. They also had a very clear waist to hip ratio, something most trans women won't have when thin as most of their hip width will come from fat deposits.

The hips continue developing up to 25 years old, both in size and rotation-wise. Trans that start HRT early on their mid-puberty ( say trans TY like Maya Henry, Victoria Rose, etc ) will develop ( for the most part ) the usual female hour-glass frame since the HRT hits them while the hips are developing. That is not the case for AGP, who "transition" on average on their mid-30s instead of HSTS who "transition" on their mid-teens/early 20s and so have a shot at their hips evolving just like female hips do. That's one of the reasons they push to get children's lives fucked with hormone blockers, is their attempt to "defy nature, defy god" by projecting their own selfish desires of a "perfect transition" in those children ( i.e. let those children have what I couldn't have) while also claiming that "nature can be tamed" via HRT.

EDIT : Adding sources about the subject
Study on effect of HRT in waist-to-hip ratio
The Full paper

Gender-affirming hormone (GAH) treatment with sex steroids in transgender people might affect bone geometry. However, in adult transgender people, no change in bone geometry during GAH was observed. In this study, we investigated changes in bone geometry among transgender adolescents using a gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist (GnRHa) and GAH before achieving peak bone mass. Transgender adolescents treated with GnRHa and subsequent GAH before the age of 18 years were eligible for inclusion.

Those who started during mid and late puberty remained within the reference curve of the gender assigned at birth. A possible explanation might be sought in the phenomenon of programming, which conceptualizes that stimuli during critical windows of development can have major consequences throughout one's life span. Therefore, this study adds insights into sex-specific bone geometry development during puberty of transgender adolescents treated with GnRHa, as well as the general population.

From the paper :

Bone geometry has been shown to remain unchanged during the GAH treatment in adult transgender people.(12) This lack of change may be because adult participants had already achieved final geometrical proportions. However, this assumption has not yet been studied in adolescent transgender populations. Seizing the exceptional opportunity to investigate bone geometry in transgender youth yields valuable knowledge on bone strength development in transgender adolescent health care. When translated to general physiology, it also provides more insight into the effects of sex steroids in bone development during the different phases of puberty. We hypothesized that bone geometry of transgender people who received puberty blockers and subsequent GAH treatment during childhood would show more resemblance to that of the experienced gender than to that of the gender assigned at birth. For trans women receiving estrogen, this implies a smaller endocortical diameter than that of cis men (men whose gender identity matches the sex assigned at birth). For trans men receiving testosterone, this implies a larger periosteal diameter than that of cis women (women whose gender identity matches the sex assigned at birth).

 

[PennyAni]

Ok I'm done looking through Claire Michelle's reddit account, I didn't look through absolutely everything but I covered most of everything from the past 5 years. He gives me major narcissist vibes, he's unfathomably self-absorbed and posts every little thing he does in multiple subreddits. Things like his 1 year HRT timeline just come off as unhinged to me- for ex., he starts talking about how he has a groin injury so he couldn't tuck. I really recommend looking through his 6 month timeline (and the 1 year one too) if you want to know a bit about what he's like, but I'll post some highlights below. He dated a woman for a while but after a year or so into his transition he started dating "straight" men, he also discusses how he started cross-dressing when he was young and how he didn't come out until college. I think he might actually be AGP.
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Yeah if the choices are AGP or....apologies, I know the other one is a gay dude but I don't remember the acronym or what it stands for...I'd go with AGP based purely on the years of crossdressing and how she admits it makes her feel.

(See this is weird, I have no trouble "she/her"-ing Claire....in fact if feels odd to me not to. Maybe because she passes better?)

Also it's surprising how much she reminds me of Contra. Not just because they're blonde Americans. They share quite the physical resemblance despite all that and their "trans journey" or crossdressing years or whatever are also very similar. And the music thing. The main difference I can see reading just this 6 month timeline is the lack of Contra's trademark snarky sarcasm.

But yeah....Olly is fucking insane. I wonder if Claire is aware of how much she mirrors his ex?

 

[AfghanBlue]

But yeah....Olly is fucking insane. I wonder if Claire is aware of how much she mirrors his ex?

probably. given that he's self memeing his dumb 'blond american' thing all over. if you're i any sort of relationship with someone, thats pretty shitty behaviour. like she's just a cardboard cutout of his fetish. putting the flag in front of her face on the dumb cinema selfie was too much lol.

just a quickie.
Tube you dumb dumb, thats not a stray cat. Those cats cost like five hundred quid in the uk lmao.
Look at its coat. Just cos it doesn't wear a collar, and is currently outside, does not a stray make.
Like one of these idiots who takes peoples cats to the shelter for walking around on their own street