Community Munchausen's by Internet (Malingerers, Munchies, Spoonies, etc) - Feigning Illnesses for Attention


I worked at a swimming pool for a while. Im pretty sure i remember a woman like this whose eyes were so far apart that she had to daisy chain goggles together. I suspected she was a hammerhead shark but didnt want to start a panic as it was the 90s and Jaws had just been released.

Anyway, these people clearly have an unhealthily interested in kids.

Edit. Wtf was i high when i wrote this. Ive tidied up my rambling.
 
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Men are now claiming to suffer from illnesses that were until recently regarded as specifically women's conditions such as postnatal depression and menopause.

I want to slap men who claim PPD in pregnancy forums. PPD is, in part, caused by actual physical changes that happen to a woman's brain after birth (their gray matter actually shrinks, make of that what you will) and the massive hormone drop once the body no longer needs to support a placenta (or rather, once the placenta is no longer pushing out hormones to support a baby).

Yes, the lack of sleep kicked off by a new baby can cause depression. It is not PPD. It makes me so mad.
 
I want to slap men who claim PPD in pregnancy forums. PPD is, in part, caused by actual physical changes that happen to a woman's brain after birth (their gray matter actually shrinks, make of that what you will) and the massive hormone drop once the body no longer needs to support a placenta (or rather, once the placenta is no longer pushing out hormones to support a baby).

Yes, the lack of sleep kicked off by a new baby can cause depression. It is not PPD. It makes me so mad.

I think this one is due more to ignorance than anything else, or just the lack of a term for the variety of depression new fathers may experience.
 
I think this one is due more to ignorance than anything else, or just the lack of a term for the variety of depression new fathers may experience.
According to this peer-reviewed article titled "Sad Dads" (0/10 for scholarly titles, jesus christ), one proposed term is "Paternal Postpartum Depression." I didn't read the whole thing (just the abstract), but it seems the causes have more to do with pre-existing biological risk factors, combined with some "ecological" risk factors (lack of bonding, a shitty marriage, lack of role models, etc). Apparently a pattern of depression does exist for dads after the birth of a child, but it's not in any way related to the same way Post-Partum Depression presents and is caused in women. Do with this article what you wish.

From the article:

1636219042378.png
 
According to this peer-reviewed article titled "Sad Dads" (0/10 for scholarly titles, jesus christ), one proposed term is "Paternal Postpartum Depression." I didn't read the whole thing (just the abstract), but it seems the causes have more to do with pre-existing biological risk factors, combined with some "ecological" risk factors (lack of bonding, a shitty marriage, lack of role models, etc). Apparently a pattern of depression does exist for dads after the birth of a child, but it's not in any way related to the same way Post-Partum Depression presents and is caused in women. Do with this article what you wish.

From the article:

View attachment 2694435
So, basically, "I knocked up my motherwife to save our miserable marriage, but now she's devoting all her attention to the new baby."
 
So, basically, "I knocked up my motherwife to save our miserable marriage, but now she's devoting all her attention to the new baby."
Precisely. It's a pattern of "sad dads" that has nothing to do with the way that women's hormones and bodies are jacked up after giving birth to a baby. The only parallel is post-having-a-baby. That's it. So these are dudes who fall into a depression once another small, needy human is added to their household.
 
So, basically, "I knocked up my motherwife to save our miserable marriage, but now she's devoting all her attention to the new baby."
It's pretty weird how often I get asked by men how soon they can get back to having sex after their partner delivers.

It's like...uh, there are more important things going on here?
 
Another round of Make It Make Sense for your Sunday morning reading.

A Note on Cognitive Dissonance and Malingering

Abstract


This paper proposes that malingered symptoms may become internalized due to the selfdeceptive power of cognitive dissonance. Studies demonstrating how other-deception may turn into self-deception are briefly discussed, as are clinical notions about the overlap between malingering and medically unexplained symptoms. In our view this literature showcases the relevance of cognitive dissonance for research on malingering. A cognitive dissonance perspective may help to clarify how ambiguous sensations may escalate into subjectively compelling symptoms. This perspective suggests that malingered symptom reports are more than just a complication during psychological evaluation. It may generate new research avenues and may clarify practically relevant issues.
 

Attachments

I want to slap men who claim PPD in pregnancy forums. PPD is, in part, caused by actual physical changes that happen to a woman's brain after birth (their gray matter actually shrinks, make of that what you will) and the massive hormone drop once the body no longer needs to support a placenta (or rather, once the placenta is no longer pushing out hormones to support a baby).

Yes, the lack of sleep kicked off by a new baby can cause depression. It is not PPD. It makes me so mad.
These absolute whining mother fuckers. Can women not have anything to themselves with some miserable bloke making it about himself .
 
I want to slap men who claim PPD in pregnancy forums. PPD is, in part, caused by actual physical changes that happen to a woman's brain after birth (their gray matter actually shrinks, make of that what you will) and the massive hormone drop once the body no longer needs to support a placenta (or rather, once the placenta is no longer pushing out hormones to support a baby).

Yes, the lack of sleep kicked off by a new baby can cause depression. It is not PPD. It makes me so mad.
I didn't even know until I read this comment they literally made ppd. I thought they meant they were depressed from lack of sleep/routine changes after their kid was born. Any man who claims PPD should be relentlessly mocked by his male friends/coworkers.
According to this peer-reviewed article titled "Sad Dads" (0/10 for scholarly titles, jesus christ), one proposed term is "Paternal Postpartum Depression." I didn't read the whole thing (just the abstract), but it seems the causes have more to do with pre-existing biological risk factors, combined with some "ecological" risk factors (lack of bonding, a shitty marriage, lack of role models, etc). Apparently a pattern of depression does exist for dads after the birth of a child, but it's not in any way related to the same way Post-Partum Depression presents and is caused in women. Do with this article what you wish.

From the article:

View attachment 2694435
Lol manchild depresshun.
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This isnt my area of study, but i suspect the material im looking for is hidden in plain sight and written in academic code that avoids drama.

Another example i came across is when i wanted to understand how patients that are harmed by medical error react. There isnt a search term i could come up with that didnt offer page after page about the trauma medical professionals suffer when they cause harm, and nothing about patients. Reminds me of the theme of last years World Patient Safety Day which was healthcare professional wellbeing.

So when i finally found the above article that had the courage to be wrong and unpopular, it was refreshing.

I thought my fellow munchie fanciers might be interested because they hijack victimhood almost as a way to preempt or obscure the harms they do, and the world is complicit in allowing the victim role to be free from responsibility and blame.

I think it happens so that the victim role never goes beyond arms reach. Perhaps society feels that if we prevented people abusing it, we couldnt abuse it ourselves should we need to in the future.
look for research on malingering, factitious disorder- not Munchausen. also look for conversion disorder, functional neurologic disorders, PNES, somatic symptoms, somatoform, psychogenic illness. these are all good code words to start looking up.


there's not as much research as there should be, but there's some. scihub and even google scholar may have more.
 
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Etsy spoonies are so weird... they can't make an attractive and affordable product to save their life. (Thumbnail option is broken, sry for image sizes.)

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Why do the spoonies act like people with cancer oppress them?


 
look for research on malingering, factitious disorder- not Munchausen. also look for conversion disorder, functional neurologic disorders, PNES, somatic symptoms, somatoform, psychogenic illness. these are all good code words to start looking up.


there's not as much research as there should be, but there's some. scihub and even google scholar may have more.

Ive ended up going quite autistic about this. Its true that the more you learn the more you realise how little you know.

As always dont hesitate to nigger me if i stray from curious observer to frantic blogger. Here are the broad catagories ive ended up collecting papers on.

I think i stopped trying to answer the question about munchies and started trying to understand the context as well.

  • Munching: Medically Unexplained Symptoms, Factitious Disorder, Somitisation and Malingering.
  • Self Deception and cognitive dissonance. Do they really believe theyre ill?
  • Epistemic injustice and privilege. How munchies can hijack society into enabling and affirming their illness beliefs.
  • Elite Capture: How elites masquerade as the marginalised, redefine the narratives of illness in the mind of society so they can secure primary and secondary gain. The epistemic injustice they claim to be victim of is actually the injustice they create. Their illness narratives create normal illness behaviour that can obly be performed by those with epistemic priviledge, so truely marginalised people are seen, when not performing the narrative, as having abnornal illness behavior. The consequence is that the genuinely ill are considered to be malingerers because they cant perform the narrative, and get poor or denied treatment.

Long covid is an example. Studies almost always say they cant find any subjects that arent white. Thats because long covid narrative has been made by white middle class women, and non white patients are discarded as not within scope.

Im feeling very wake-up-sheeple about this whole affair.
 
Chronic illness has become a commodity to be marketed and an identity to perform. And yes only those with significant privilege can perform it this way. It's an industry now. A niche for businesses and brands to exist in.

IMO the prototype for this is Zebra-culture that sprung up in EDS spaces. The marketing of cutesy accessories and identity stuff aimed at people with this one illness.

The munchers have now branched that out to other conditions as they've started to realise you can't all have EDS and still claim its rare.

The way munching has dovetailed with influencer culture has made a million copycats all trying to perform best little sickest princess uwu.
They don't address the fact that working class sick people have to suck it up and keep working.
True munchers do seem to skew white now you mention it. Can't think of a black one.
 
Chronic illness has become a commodity to be marketed and an identity to perform. And yes only those with significant privilege can perform it this way. It's an industry now. A niche for businesses and brands to exist in.

IMO the prototype for this is Zebra-culture that sprung up in EDS spaces. The marketing of cutesy accessories and identity stuff aimed at people with this one illness.

The munchers have now branched that out to other conditions as they've started to realise you can't all have EDS and still claim its rare.

The way munching has dovetailed with influencer culture has made a million copycats all trying to perform best little sickest princess uwu.
They don't address the fact that working class sick people have to suck it up and keep working.
True munchers do seem to skew white now you mention it. Can't think of a black one.

Munchies often ask incredulously "do you seriously think anyone would choose to be ill!".

Its the type of feigned ignorance thats endemic in the minds of progressive elite types. They refuse to accept publically that survival requires difficult trade offs where sometimes the correct choice lacks moral purity.

One paper i read, perhaps the one linked above, estimates that something like 20% of visits to primary care are by people with medically unexplained symptoms. The implication is that either consciously or otherwise they are presenting ill when well.

Given people arent slow to accuse others of dishonesty, or acting witg concern only for their personal gain, is it likely that the number of people lying about their illness is so small that any research is a waste of tine?

The benefits that come with illness are extraordinary compared with the past. While the immediate financial benefits arent great, its naive in 2021 to think that money is the only motivating factor.

Status now comes from emotional capital. In fact the poorer someone is, the more emotional capital they can get.

Now consider cost benefit analysis for someone lying about being ill. Its even better for them because they get all the emotional capital of the sick role without being ill at all.

So when they say that its unimaginable that someone would want to be ill, id point out that being ill is no longer a prerequisite. In fact, the less ill they are the more the sick role benefits them.

Anyone genuinely unwell or disabled would see that making access to diagnosis easier doesnt capture people that were ill and undiagnosed before, it invites in healthy people.

I think that the underlying cause of the munchie phenomenon is the same that incentivises victimhood in many other areas of society.

Edit. I cant tell you how cathartic being able to talk about this is without being beseiged by powerlevelling chronic illness warriors. Thank fuck for KF.
 
look for research on malingering, factitious disorder- not Munchausen. also look for conversion disorder, functional neurologic disorders, PNES, somatic symptoms, somatoform, psychogenic illness. these are all good code words to start looking up.


there's not as much research as there should be, but there's some. scihub and even google scholar may have more.
This review is very thorough! Thanks for the link. The authors make an interesting observation about depression and not BPD being the most common psych co-morbidities, although it's shocking to me that eating disorders were so rare. I wonder if the ED population are less likely to be reported as FD case studies since their pattern of self-harm is so clinically evident already.

I have a theory about a specific social factor that I have yet to see analyzed: severe illness and death in a close relative early in childhood. The handful of fakers I have IRL awareness of had siblings or parents that died young, and dramatically, of the illnesses that the relative later went on to fake. It's common for Internet munchies to springboard their behaviour off of an acquaintance, friend, or relative whose illness they witnessed. It seems that either: 1. FD can be socially contagious from originators whose illnesses were organic OR 2. the trauma of enduring a close relative's suffering can trigger this behaviour in female relatives later in life. It would make sense for depression to be the trigger for FD as a maladaptive coping pattern with significant secondary gains.
 
This review is very thorough! Thanks for the link. The authors make an interesting observation about depression and not BPD being the most common psych co-morbidities, although it's shocking to me that eating disorders were so rare. I wonder if the ED population are less likely to be reported as FD case studies since their pattern of self-harm is so clinically evident already.

I have a theory about a specific social factor that I have yet to see analyzed: severe illness and death in a close relative early in childhood. The handful of fakers I have IRL awareness of had siblings or parents that died young, and dramatically, of the illnesses that the relative later went on to fake. It's common for Internet munchies to springboard their behaviour off of an acquaintance, friend, or relative whose illness they witnessed. It seems that either: 1. FD can be socially contagious from originators whose illnesses were organic OR 2. the trauma of enduring a close relative's suffering can trigger this behaviour in female relatives later in life. It would make sense for depression to be the trigger for FD as a maladaptive coping pattern with significant secondary gains.
Isn't the sibling thing documented? So many of them have one.
 
So when they say that its unimaginable that someone would want to be ill, id point out that being ill is no longer a prerequisite. In fact, the less ill they are the more the sick role benefits them.

Anyone genuinely unwell or disabled would see that making access to diagnosis easier doesnt capture people that were ill and undiagnosed before, it invites in healthy people.

I think that the underlying cause of the munchie phenomenon is the same that incentivises victimhood in many other areas of society.

The "mental health awareness" bollocks predated this, but anxiety and depreshuns (and autism, and ADHD) aren't special enough anymore now that we're on a third generation of a massive chunk of the population being raised by screens and fast food - their resulting inability to cope with life and parents' lack of will to teach them at the developmentally appropriate time really has resulted in what used to be considered a pathological dysfunction. When everybody and their fucking brother has some questionable psych diagnosis, and goes to a therapist every week and maybe takes some benzos and stimulants too because why not, how special is it anymore, really? I suspect this is why munching and trooning out have started to become the new wave.

The exact phenomenon you're describing has turned mental health care, already by and large a minefield of bullshit, into an absolute joke filled with label-fixated mongs forming their identity around fake disorders, retarded "mental health specialists" coddling the dysfunctional with unending asspats that make everything worse, giving anybody and everybody a tailor made excuse to avoid responsibility, and predatory scams. That is bad enough. But where does it leave the people who could really benefit from that help? Do you really think a severely bipolar or schizophrenic person is going to stick with a therapy group where they are surrounded by bunch of perfectly normal people with uwu tumblr anxiety and depresshuns whose biggest problem is getting nervous when they have to talk to a stranger? If the "treatment" is actually geared towards what is now the majority, would it do them any good if they did? Similarly, how can one even compare a basic bitch antidepressant or low-dose benzo with someone who takes multiple dirty antipsychotics and a mood stabilizer or two at maxed out doses where coping with the horrific side effects just creates a litany of new problems? A system geared towards dealing with the former is going to be horrifically unequipped to deal with the latter in any measure. The people with real psych issues who don't have the luxury of hiding in their parents' basement or living off Gofundme scams have to attempt to function in the world anyway, and unfortunately a lot of the time end up in and out of prison or dead with a needle in their arm for the trouble.

I don't think actual disabilities are something that a person should need to feel ashamed of, far from it. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging frank discussion. Collecting victim points and obsessing over labels and diagnoses however is harming actual sick and disabled people almost just as much as being an outright dick to them ever has.
 
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