Kyle Rittenhouse Legal Proceedings - Come for the trial, stay for….

[karadion]

The PTB have been working towards this mindset for a while. They want us docile sheep so they can larp as feudal lords.

You will own nothing and you will be happy.

 

[Make Anime Illegal]

Just had a long discussion with a friend about the trial and as expected it ended poorly. The friend in this case tends to be of a lefty persuasion more often than not while I tend to be centric. Now, this is a friend I care about a lot, he’s practically family to me and so I care a great deal about his opinions and input even if we can’t agree. His arguments unfortunately in regards to this case seem to be the very basic regurgitations of those heard on Twitter and Reddit. The exception being that even he can agree that Kyle has an unshakable claim to self defense.

Firstly, he believes that Kyle illegally purchased the gun through his friend Black with the sole intention of going to the riot and putting himself in a situation in which he would be “forced” to shoot people. This, he says, is based off of Kyle’s tweets wherein he talked about shooting shoplifters. I of course put it to him that such a claim was at worst coincidental as I know for a fact that such statements are made constantly through social media and often have no bearing on the reality of what a person would actually do in those scenarios.

Secondly, he claims as many have, that the case should be retried because the judge is biased towards Kyle and a racist. His reasoning for this believe is, according to him, that the Judge ruled that the defense could call the victims anything but. Additionally, he is of the belief that the ring tone used by the Judge is in fact a reason to believe that the Judge is necessarily pro Trump. Now to some extent I can agree that the Judge may be biased, however I believe this is due to the Prosecution’s actions throughout the trial thus far as opposed to a built in bias from the beginning. It’s my belief, and I have relayed as much to my friend, that the Judge began this trial as neutral as possible and then gradually became ever more annoyed by the actions of the prosecution thereby creating the bias.

Finally, and most annoyingly, he is of the opinion that Kyle is a racist supporter of the Proud Boys, claiming that they even flew a flag celebrating and depicting the number of people he shot. This, he insists, is further evidence that Kyle had every intention of shooting someone during the riot. He thereafter refused to take into account the circumstances that led up to that event or the suspicious individual whom had set it up and lured Kyle there to begin with. It is his belief that Kyle wouldn’t have done any of these things if he were really innocent.

How can I get through to him? I hate to see him so consumed by this leftist ideology that he feels the need to be so stubborn on what is quite clearly the story of a well meaning but perhaps dumb kid who just wanted to help out and be a hero, but ended up in a situation beyond his control in which he was forced to either defend himself or die. They all seem so hateful when they speak about their political views and leanings as though they were possessed by something unimaginable. He used to not be like this. In fact I would say there was a time that I knew him when even I considered him to farther right than I was left. I want to help him understand that the path he’s on is one that has historically embraced violence and hate. I don’t want to watch my friends, the people I love and care about suffer the way he is because of some petty politics. I know he’s better than this. I know they can all be better than this.

Ask him why he didn't shoot any black people. He had multiple chances.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

Ask him why he didn't shoot any black people. He had multiple chances.

I would assume, based on his argument that he would say something along the lines of “He couldn’t shoot any black people because none of them were provoked into attacking.” He is under the impression that Kyle was intentionally trying to provoke an attack so that he could shoot people.

 

[Considered HARMful]

I would assume, based on his argument that he would say something along the lines of “He couldn’t shoot any black people because none of them were provoked into attacking.” He is under the impression that Kyle was intentionally trying to provoke an attack so that he could shoot people.

"Then why didn't Kyle try to explicitly provoke black people if his goal was to whitesupremacy [verb]?".

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

"Then why didn't Kyle try to explicitly provoke black people if his goal was to whitesupremacy [verb]?".

“Rosenbaum was obviously black, why else would he be using a hard R.”

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Just had a long discussion with a friend about the trial and as expected it ended poorly. The friend in this case tends to be of a lefty persuasion more often than not while I tend to be centric. Now, this is a friend I care about a lot, he’s practically family to me and so I care a great deal about his opinions and input even if we can’t agree. His arguments unfortunately in regards to this case seem to be the very basic regurgitations of those heard on Twitter and Reddit. The exception being that even he can agree that Kyle has an unshakable claim to self defense.

Firstly, he believes that Kyle illegally purchased the gun through his friend Black with the sole intention of going to the riot and putting himself in a situation in which he would be “forced” to shoot people. This, he says, is based off of Kyle’s tweets wherein he talked about shooting shoplifters. I of course put it to him that such a claim was at worst coincidental as I know for a fact that such statements are made constantly through social media and often have no bearing on the reality of what a person would actually do in those scenarios.

Secondly, he claims as many have, that the case should be retried because the judge is biased towards Kyle and a racist. His reasoning for this believe is, according to him, that the Judge ruled that the defense could call the victims anything but. Additionally, he is of the belief that the ring tone used by the Judge is in fact a reason to believe that the Judge is necessarily pro Trump. Now to some extent I can agree that the Judge may be biased, however I believe this is due to the Prosecution’s actions throughout the trial thus far as opposed to a built in bias from the beginning. It’s my belief, and I have relayed as much to my friend, that the Judge began this trial as neutral as possible and then gradually became ever more annoyed by the actions of the prosecution thereby creating the bias.

Finally, and most annoyingly, he is of the opinion that Kyle is a racist supporter of the Proud Boys, claiming that they even flew a flag celebrating and depicting the number of people he shot. This, he insists, is further evidence that Kyle had every intention of shooting someone during the riot. He thereafter refused to take into account the circumstances that led up to that event or the suspicious individual whom had set it up and lured Kyle there to begin with. It is his belief that Kyle wouldn’t have done any of these things if he were really innocent.

How can I get through to him? I hate to see him so consumed by this leftist ideology that he feels the need to be so stubborn on what is quite clearly the story of a well meaning but perhaps dumb kid who just wanted to help out and be a hero, but ended up in a situation beyond his control in which he was forced to either defend himself or die. They all seem so hateful when they speak about their political views and leanings as though they were possessed by something unimaginable. He used to not be like this. In fact I would say there was a time that I knew him when even I considered him to farther right than I was left. I want to help him understand that the path he’s on is one that has historically embraced violence and hate. I don’t want to watch my friends, the people I love and care about suffer the way he is because of some petty politics. I know he’s better than this. I know they can all be better than this.

Check my previous post for inspiration. I think the core of most of these issues is peoples' trust in authority, be it government itself, police, FBI and the like, as well as "mainstream" media. They trust them too much and as such substitute thought for their claims, there's no critical thinking involved.
The only way to change their mind is to shred that authority in front of his eyes by pointing out their lies and contradictions, so they give more consideration to other sources, ones that you use (which are hopefully good).
Take this, for example:

You could try showing actual footage from the courtroom where prosecution overstepped, point out violations they were committing. Take Rekieta's breakdown of the gun charges from his last stream and how it was discussed in the courtroom during jury instructions. There's a clear exception that allows Kyle to legally own a gun above certain barrel length - since short-barrel rifles are straight up illegal to own for most people, there's no way he could've bought one. Police detective testified that his gun was compliant with the law.
Stuff like that. Keep in mind it's going to take a lot of time and effort to sift through all the evidence and form compelling arguments. Because it takes more work to do research than just spout bullshit from twatter and plebbit.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

“Rosenbaum was obviously black, why else would he be using a hard R.”

I wonder if it's still possible to take a DNA ancestry test from Rosenbaum's corpse just to see how much black he is?

 

[Make Anime Illegal]

I would assume, based on his argument that he would say something along the lines of “He couldn’t shoot any black people because none of them were provoked into attacking.” He is under the impression that Kyle was intentionally trying to provoke an attack so that he could shoot people.

Explain to him what a form 4473 is and how Kyle's gun was not purchased illegally to show him that he can be wrong. Then ask him how he actually knows Kyle "provoked" anybody. Then point out the videos of Kyle ignoring/disengaging people who were yelling at him.

If he can only defend his position with assumptions ask him if he can be wrong about the gun what makes him think he's right about anything else?

 

[Michael Janke]

“Rosenbaum was obviously black, why else would he be using a hard R.”

he was obviously albino.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

Check my previous post for inspiration. I think the core of most of these issues is peoples' trust in authority, be it government itself, police, FBI and the like, as well as "mainstream" media. They trust them too much and as such substitute thought for their claims, there's no critical thinking involved.
The only way to change their mind is to shred that authority in front of his eyes by pointing out their lies and contradictions, so they give more consideration to other sources, ones that you use (which are hopefully good).
Take this, for example:

You could try showing actual footage from the courtroom where prosecution overstepped, point out violations they were committing. Take Rekieta's breakdown of the gun charges from his last stream and how it was discussed in the courtroom during jury instructions. There's a clear exception that allows Kyle to legally own a gun above certain barrel length - since short-barrel rifles are straight up illegal to own for most people, there's no way he could've bought one. Police detective testified that his gun was compliant with the law.
Stuff like that. Keep in mind it's going to take a lot of time and effort to sift through all the evidence and form compelling arguments. Because it takes more work to do research than just spout bullshit from twatter and plebbit.

He said he’s been watching the trial but based on the numerous details I’ve had to correct him on I have to assume he’s either lying to me or that he’s been given choice clips out of context with details being filled in presumeably by the person providing the clip. I’m actually surprised he even tried arguing the legality on the gun issue considering he himself is a huge gun buff and even sold me my first gun. I agree that it’s probably a lot of social media feeding him this crap and we even discussed that a little but ultimately I think it’s an issue of pride for him and he insisted he had barely been using social media.. which I find particularly hard to believe since I know for a fact he gets regularly kicked off of Facebook for saying things.

 

[Make Anime Illegal]

I'm actually surprised he even tried arguing the legality on the gun issue considering he himself is a huge gun buff and even sold me my first gun.

He should know what a 4473 is, then. Ask him why the ATF hasn't charged Kyle or his friend with a straw purchase.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Explain to him what a form 4473 is and how Kyle's gun was not purchased illegally to show him that he can be wrong. Then ask him how he actually knows Kyle "provoked" anybody. Then point out the videos of Kyle ignoring/disengaging people who were yelling at him.

If he can only defend his position with assumptions ask him if he can be wrong about the gun what makes him think he's right about anything else?

There are still people who believe or believed until recently that people Kyle shot were black, that should count for something.
Rosenbaum, Grosskreutz, Hubert - sounds white to me le'mao
Oh, and Kyle himself is apparently half-hispanic? Not sure which half that would be.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

Just had a long discussion with a friend about the trial and as expected it ended poorly. The friend in this case tends to be of a lefty persuasion more often than not while I tend to be centric. Now, this is a friend I care about a lot, he’s practically family to me and so I care a great deal about his opinions and input even if we can’t agree. His arguments unfortunately in regards to this case seem to be the very basic regurgitations of those heard on Twitter and Reddit. The exception being that even he can agree that Kyle has an unshakable claim to self defense.

Firstly, he believes that Kyle illegally purchased the gun through his friend Black with the sole intention of going to the riot and putting himself in a situation in which he would be “forced” to shoot people. This, he says, is based off of Kyle’s tweets wherein he talked about shooting shoplifters. I of course put it to him that such a claim was at worst coincidental as I know for a fact that such statements are made constantly through social media and often have no bearing on the reality of what a person would actually do in those scenarios.

Secondly, he claims as many have, that the case should be retried because the judge is biased towards Kyle and a racist. His reasoning for this believe is, according to him, that the Judge ruled that the defense could call the victims anything but. Additionally, he is of the belief that the ring tone used by the Judge is in fact a reason to believe that the Judge is necessarily pro Trump. Now to some extent I can agree that the Judge may be biased, however I believe this is due to the Prosecution’s actions throughout the trial thus far as opposed to a built in bias from the beginning. It’s my belief, and I have relayed as much to my friend, that the Judge began this trial as neutral as possible and then gradually became ever more annoyed by the actions of the prosecution thereby creating the bias.

Finally, and most annoyingly, he is of the opinion that Kyle is a racist supporter of the Proud Boys, claiming that they even flew a flag celebrating and depicting the number of people he shot. This, he insists, is further evidence that Kyle had every intention of shooting someone during the riot. He thereafter refused to take into account the circumstances that led up to that event or the suspicious individual whom had set it up and lured Kyle there to begin with. It is his belief that Kyle wouldn’t have done any of these things if he were really innocent.

How can I get through to him? I hate to see him so consumed by this leftist ideology that he feels the need to be so stubborn on what is quite clearly the story of a well meaning but perhaps dumb kid who just wanted to help out and be a hero, but ended up in a situation beyond his control in which he was forced to either defend himself or die. They all seem so hateful when they speak about their political views and leanings as though they were possessed by something unimaginable. He used to not be like this. In fact I would say there was a time that I knew him when even I considered him to farther right than I was left. I want to help him understand that the path he’s on is one that has historically embraced violence and hate. I don’t want to watch my friends, the people I love and care about suffer the way he is because of some petty politics. I know he’s better than this. I know they can all be better than this.

Just got into the same argument. I always try to soften it by saying they shouldn't have gone after 1st degree murder. I've found most people, will agree to that. It's like a soft way of introducing the case was bunk and once they look into it. It starts to unravel. Tonight a friend, kept saying no that it was 1st degree murder and he could have could have done a better job proving it. This fools 1st main argument was that Kyle traveled many miles are crossed state lines with a gun. I tell then none of it was true. They then read about blacks testimony and say see look this proves Kyle had a "shiny new toy" and he wanted to use it to kill people. My rebuttal is why is Kyle running away everytime? If he wanted to kill, wouldn't he have stood his ground ? Their response was Kyle ran to get a better position in order to shoot. We ended the argument with him saying Kyle is a white supremacist, he went to the protests specifically to kill black people.

These people are religious fundamentalists. It's like watching creationists trying to explain dinosaurs. They have a narrative and will bend everything to fit it , regardless of the evidence in front of them. The brain worms have infected them & their is no hope for redemption.

 

[The Ancestor]

For those who aren't sure if the salt will be more delicious if he's acquitted or convicted, please consider this... if he's acquitted, at some point they have to give that rifle back to him.

Will they, in this case? Isn’t it technically owned by the other guy, who’s facing other charges?

 

[DelusionTree]

Finally, and most annoyingly, he is of the opinion that Kyle is a racist supporter of the Proud Boys, claiming that they even flew a flag celebrating and depicting the number of people he shot. This, he insists, is further evidence that Kyle had every intention of shooting someone during the riot. He thereafter refused to take into account the circumstances that led up to that event or the suspicious individual whom had set it up and lured Kyle there to begin with. It is his belief that Kyle wouldn’t have done any of these things if he were really innocent.

The Proud Boys meeting at that bar and the shirt he was wearing at the time was set up by that fucking sperg Lin Wood before he really started going crazy.
Kyle literally never heard of the faggots before that day and this was covered all in pre-trial motions.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

Just got into the same argument. I always try to soften it by saying they shouldn't have gone after 1st degree murder. I've found most people, will agree to that. It's like a soft way of introducing the case was bunk and once they look into it. It starts to unravel. Tonight a friend, kept saying no that it was 1st degree murder and he could have could have done a better job proving it. This fools 1st main argument was that Kyle traveled many miles are crossed state lines with a gun. I tell then none of it was true. They then read about blacks testimony and say see look this proves Kyle had a "shiny new toy" and he wanted to use it to kill people. My rebuttal is why is Kyle running away everytime? If he wanted to kill, wouldn't he have stood his ground ? Their response was Kyle ran to get a better position in order to shoot. We ended the argument with him saying Kyle is a white supremacist, he went to the protests specifically to kill black people.

These people are religious fundamentalists. It's like watching creationists trying to explain dinosaurs. They have a narrative and will bend everything to fit it , regardless of the evidence in front of them. The brain worms have infected them & their is no hope redemption.

Yeah, we had a similar discussion on those subjects and his answers didn’t really make a whole lot of sense to me. When I asked him why they would attack when Kyle was trying to run he said that, “It’s what you’re supposed to do in an active shooter situation.” I of course responded with “I think you and I both know that isn’t true. You’re supposed to run and take cover.” He insisted he was correct I think out of some sense of pride and general stubbornness.

 

[Make Anime Illegal]

Just got into the same argument. I always try to soften it by saying they shouldn't have gone after 1st degree murder. I've found most people, will agree to that. It's like a soft way of introducing the case was bunk and once they look into it. It starts to unravel. Tonight a friend, kept saying no that it was 1st degree murder and he could have could have done a better job proving it. This fools 1st main argument was that Kyle traveled many miles are crossed state lines with a gun. I tell then none of it was true. They then read about blacks testimony and say see look this proves Kyle had a "shiny new toy" and he wanted to use it to kill people. My rebuttal is why is Kyle running away everytime? If he wanted to kill, wouldn't he have stood his ground ? Their response was Kyle ran to get a better position in order to shoot. We ended the argument with him saying Kyle is a white supremacist, he went to the protests specifically to kill black people.

These people are religious fundamentalists. It's like watching creationists trying to explain dinosaurs. They have a narrative and will bend everything to fit it , regardless of the evidence in front of them. The brain worms have infected them & their is no hope redemption.

Maybe just point out the fact that they don't actually have any evidence and are just rationalizing. A person doing what they are doing could come up with a reason literally anyone is guilty of 1st degree murder.

 

[Corette]

Just had a long discussion with a friend about the trial and as expected it ended poorly. The friend in this case tends to be of a lefty persuasion more often than not while I tend to be centric. Now, this is a friend I care about a lot, he’s practically family to me and so I care a great deal about his opinions and input even if we can’t agree. His arguments unfortunately in regards to this case seem to be the very basic regurgitations of those heard on Twitter and Reddit. The exception being that even he can agree that Kyle has an unshakable claim to self defense.

Firstly, he believes that Kyle illegally purchased the gun through his friend Black with the sole intention of going to the riot and putting himself in a situation in which he would be “forced” to shoot people. This, he says, is based off of Kyle’s tweets wherein he talked about shooting shoplifters. I of course put it to him that such a claim was at worst coincidental as I know for a fact that such statements are made constantly through social media and often have no bearing on the reality of what a person would actually do in those scenarios.

Secondly, he claims as many have, that the case should be retried because the judge is biased towards Kyle and a racist. His reasoning for this believe is, according to him, that the Judge ruled that the defense could call the victims anything but. Additionally, he is of the belief that the ring tone used by the Judge is in fact a reason to believe that the Judge is necessarily pro Trump. Now to some extent I can agree that the Judge may be biased, however I believe this is due to the Prosecution’s actions throughout the trial thus far as opposed to a built in bias from the beginning. It’s my belief, and I have relayed as much to my friend, that the Judge began this trial as neutral as possible and then gradually became ever more annoyed by the actions of the prosecution thereby creating the bias.

Finally, and most annoyingly, he is of the opinion that Kyle is a racist supporter of the Proud Boys, claiming that they even flew a flag celebrating and depicting the number of people he shot. This, he insists, is further evidence that Kyle had every intention of shooting someone during the riot. He thereafter refused to take into account the circumstances that led up to that event or the suspicious individual whom had set it up and lured Kyle there to begin with. It is his belief that Kyle wouldn’t have done any of these things if he were really innocent.

How can I get through to him? I hate to see him so consumed by this leftist ideology that he feels the need to be so stubborn on what is quite clearly the story of a well meaning but perhaps dumb kid who just wanted to help out and be a hero, but ended up in a situation beyond his control in which he was forced to either defend himself or die. They all seem so hateful when they speak about their political views and leanings as though they were possessed by something unimaginable. He used to not be like this. In fact I would say there was a time that I knew him when even I considered him to farther right than I was left. I want to help him understand that the path he’s on is one that has historically embraced violence and hate. I don’t want to watch my friends, the people I love and care about suffer the way he is because of some petty politics. I know he’s better than this. I know they can all be better than this.

Just accept that he is one of the pod people now.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

I do love how Barnes insists that all of his ideas are correct and better than anyone else.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

Just accept that he is one of the pod people now.

No. I refuse to abandon someone who has been such a good and close friend to me over the years. You don’t disown your brother just because he got cancer. You help him fight it. You help him get better and heal. We have to show the compassion that they can’t. It’s our responsibility to mend this rift and reunite our country. If we can’t do that then we don’t have an America to save.