Community Munchausen's by Internet (Malingerers, Munchies, Spoonies, etc) - Feigning Illnesses for Attention

[craven rutherfordium]

Evie doesn't seem like an obvious munchie. Her mom seems absolutely bonkers, though. If anyone is intentionally sabotaging Evie's health, I'd be more inclined to blame the mother.

 

[A tree]

Evie doesn't seem like an obvious munchie. Her mom seems absolutely bonkers, though. If anyone is intentionally sabotaging Evie's health, I'd be more inclined to blame the mother.

I'm seeing a bit of both. Opportunist MBP mother, eating disorder caused by medical and lifestyle factors. Willing to bet that the world of show jumping is as bad as ballet or gymnastics for eating disorders. Mum probably has a touch of it herself.
The girl has clearly been coached for fame since before she was old enough to make informed decisions. Both have internalised the idea that more procedures and more sickness gets more attention and more asspats for being "inspirational". If you train your kid from day one that your disability is how you get praise and attention, that's what they will internalise as they grow up.
They're all aiming for the Inspo porn kiddie and teen awards that get handed out every year for a feelgood news story but as adulthood approaches where do you go with that?
It's all well and good going "look at me look what I can do" but adulthood needs more than party tricks.
Similar to ellen and bee its impossible to pick apart who started this, it's a mother-daughter shared project with fame and money as the reward.

 

[Reddit Refugee]

Evie doesn't seem like an obvious munchie. Her mom seems absolutely bonkers, though. If anyone is intentionally sabotaging Evie's health, I'd be more inclined to blame the mother.

Undeniably the girl has health issues. I have no doubts about the issues that come with the spina bifida, although I think she exaggerated some of her mobility issues for the court case/getting what she wants (see the blog post about being made to do PE outdoors and refusing to walk for the rest of the day).
When it comes to the eating issues I do believe there was some legitimacy but it's fed (no pun intended) into the later feeding issues. And whilst the procedures Evie has been through aren't completely out of the ordinary for spina bifida they are on the more invasive end of the spectrum for a milder form of the condition. Evie talks a lot about not having her mum with her to help talk to doctors in hospitals whilst visitors were banned in hospital. And calls her Nurse Caroline at one point.
The legal battle is not mentioned once on social media. Obviously Mummy Toombes is the brains behind the case despite Evie being the claimant - she's been fighting this since Evie was about five. She must be feeling so smug in the last few days but I do wonder what Evie feels having had the court agree that she should not exist.

Spoiler: A comment from Evie's lawyers

The court heard from Susan Rodway QC that had Evie’s mother been properly advised by her doctor (as every prospective mother should be) she would have started a course of folic acid for about a month before attempting to start a family. The court accepted this and held that this would have led to the later conception of a normal, healthy baby, paving the way for Evie to claim damages related to her disability which will ensure she is supported properly for the rest of her life.
The ground-breaking ruling means that a healthcare professional can now be found liable for negligent pre-conception advice which results in the birth of a child with a serious health condition. Tim Spring, solicitor and clinical negligence specialist at Moore Barlow, said: “This was an unusual and challenging case requiring the law to be clarified. My client has the condition she has due to the result of poor advice. It is of utmost importance that medical professionals follow best practice when giving patients advice, and only depart from established clinical guidelines when there are good and specific reasons to do so, which they discuss with their patients.”

If you train your kid from day one that your disability is how you get praise and attention, that's what they will internalise as they grow up.

Such a shame showjumping isn't at the Paralympics yet. I think if it had been she'd have something to work towards (I'm not horsey so I can't tell if she'd actually be good enough but she talked about it being her dream in the early days) and we wouldn't have seen the dodgy blood levels saga.

I wonder how her healthy younger brother feels in all this. There isn't much mention of him except in the first few blog posts and a tweet describing him as her "frequent carer". He was a horse person too with his own pony at one point, but he'd go with Evie to some of her early jumping shows and act as page boy running to get meds and equipment before the all-in-one medical horse box was built. No references to Rocco on Mummy Toombes' SM either. I think he might feel a bit left out.

 

[A tree]

Undeniably the girl has health issues. I have no doubts about the issues that come with the spina bifida, although I think she exaggerated some of her mobility issues for the court case/getting what she wants (see the blog post about being made to do PE outdoors and refusing to walk for the rest of the day).
When it comes to the eating issues I do believe there was some legitimacy but it's fed (no pun intended) into the later feeding issues. And whilst the procedures Evie has been through aren't completely out of the ordinary for spina bifida they are on the more invasive end of the spectrum for a milder form of the condition. Evie talks a lot about not having her mum with her to help talk to doctors in hospitals whilst visitors were banned in hospital. And calls her Nurse Caroline at one point.
The legal battle is not mentioned once on social media. Obviously Mummy Toombes is the brains behind the case despite Evie being the claimant - she's been fighting this since Evie was about five. She must be feeling so smug in the last few days but I do wonder what Evie feels having had the court agree that she should not exist.

Spoiler: A comment from Evie's lawyers

The court heard from Susan Rodway QC that had Evie’s mother been properly advised by her doctor (as every prospective mother should be) she would have started a course of folic acid for about a month before attempting to start a family. The court accepted this and held that this would have led to the later conception of a normal, healthy baby, paving the way for Evie to claim damages related to her disability which will ensure she is supported properly for the rest of her life.
The ground-breaking ruling means that a healthcare professional can now be found liable for negligent pre-conception advice which results in the birth of a child with a serious health condition. Tim Spring, solicitor and clinical negligence specialist at Moore Barlow, said: “This was an unusual and challenging case requiring the law to be clarified. My client has the condition she has due to the result of poor advice. It is of utmost importance that medical professionals follow best practice when giving patients advice, and only depart from established clinical guidelines when there are good and specific reasons to do so, which they discuss with their patients.”

Such a shame showjumping isn't at the Paralympics yet. I think if it had been she'd have something to work towards (I'm not horsey so I can't tell if she'd actually be good enough but she talked about it being her dream in the early days) and we wouldn't have seen the dodgy blood levels saga.

I wonder how her healthy younger brother feels in all this. There isn't much mention of him except in the first few blog posts and a tweet describing him as her "frequent carer". He was a horse person too with his own pony at one point, but he'd go with Evie to some of her early jumping shows and act as page boy running to get meds and equipment before the all-in-one medical horse box was built. No references to Rocco on Mummy Toombes' SM either. I think he might feel a bit left out.
View attachment 2775777

It's got to hurt having your mum sue for you having been born "defective". Could certainly drive someone to be obsessively perfectionist to please the parent.
Wierd family dynamics. The thing I can't get over is the transition back and forth from at deaths door to competing in an incredibly physically demanding sport.
It's not like being an amputee runner or a wheelchair basketball player, she's in and out of hospital full victorian dying waif mode then showjumping then waif again. It does not compute. I cannot make it make sense.

As far as exaggerating goes when I was younger I used to care for disabled kids on respite holidays. The first year I did it I was assigned a girl with cerebral palsy. She had me running myself ragged for her doing everything. I didn't know any different being a naive teenager. After 3 days I ended up fainting from exhaustion.
The staff told me "oh yeah she will do that if she thinks she can get away with it". the girl was way more capable than she let on but enjoyed having a servant to boss about for a week. Once the jig was up I had her do plenty of things for herself.

 

[TheBigZee]

IMO she's got something wrong with her, and even if she's got mental issues they still stem in part from her spine. Growing up with stenosis/myelopathy can't be good for your mental health.

Her mom and the lawsuit are totally nuts though. For all we know she doesn't comply with treatment at home so she can get the f. away from her. Unquestionably she's been made to be totally dependent, and covid would have meant being locked in with the psycho who is suing b/c she didn't have an abortion.

 

[Reddit Refugee]

Growing up with stenosis/myelopathy can't be good for your mental health.

You never meet chronically ill people who don't have some sort of mental illness. They always go hand in hand, doesn't matter what it is.

For all we know she doesn't comply with treatment at home so she can get the f. away from her. Unquestionably she's been made to be totally dependent, and covid would have meant being locked in with the psycho who is suing b/c she didn't have an abortion.

If you go to the paediatric ward following school holidays it will be littered with teenaged girls who have worked out that starving themselves in protest gets them out of the pressure of being cooped up at home with Mummy Dearest.

 

[discombobulated]

Wow imagine your own mother suing someone for the very fact that you were born.







That's fucked up.

 

[TheBigZee]

Wow imagine your own mother suing someone for the very fact that you were born.

That's fucked up.

Just for correctness sake - the girl is suing. But it really looks like the mom instigated it b/c she can't sue herself.

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

Mysterious symtoms that get worse at home you say?
It's Kelly's blood transfusions all over again. But what could possibly cause this bizarre "idiopathic" hypokalemia is not running feeds and fluids as you're supposed to, restricting and taking fuck loads of laxatives. That would do it.
Sus sus sus sus sus

A stoma is a great route to fuck with electrolytes. Normal people with a stoma have to be super careful with their fluid balance for this reason.

 

[medicaidmunch]

There was an episode of Diagnosis on Netflix that features a guy who’s heart would literally stop for several seconds, leaving him unresponsive. They did a shitload of testing and concluded it was a somatic reaction to his traumatic af childhood that he never dealt with. He went to therapy as prescribed and never had another cardiac episode. Imagine that.

The premise of the show is based on a NYT column by Dr. Lisa Sanders. She gets a case and crowdsources possible diagnoses. One of the crowdsourced ideas usually ends up being right. Incidentally, there was an episode featuring a white upper class teen in Utah who puked every time she ate. She had a port for fluids and didn’t have to go to school. Doctors involved in her care said they wanted to take the port out and that her mom usually wanted super invasive treatments. The crowd suggested a number of things, from munchie fave GP to bulimia. One person suggested rumination syndrome. It fit completely. Dr. Sanders secured a spot for the teen at a treatment clinic and set up a Skype meeting with a girl who was treated successfully and the little brat said she was disappointed that the other girl had a positive experience and she was hoping to hear that it doesn’t work. She never followed through with treatment, presumably because she wanted to continue her spoiled brat sickie princess shtick. Very interesting indeed. Also gross and fucked up.

She ended up having surgery for MALS and an auto kidney transplant which are two surgeries that quickly becoming munchie favorites. She is all better now it seems like

Maybe I'm shouting into the void, but how exactly would/could an Addison's diagnosis even qualify a person for Hospice care? I know it varies a bit, but rudimentary googling brought up this list of criterion:
View attachment 2724122
In addition, the same site also maps out the disease-specific criteria, as well as methods of coverage.View attachment 2724123
Nowhere on the list is adrenal issues. Addison's, according to my layman's understanding (in addition to googling), is an adrenal issue. You take the missing cortisol or whatever and monitor for changes and dosage needs and that's that. Watch out for crises and treat and you're otherwise managed. Am I missing something?

She said she is technically eligible because she is diagnosed with failure to thrive. No idea if that is actually able to get someone into hospice but that is her answer.

 

[TheBigZee]

What should have been the obvious possibility that Toombes deliberately self sabotaged b/c it made her a more sympathetic plaintiff in a million pound lawsuit just occurred to me.

Spinal disease is pretty terrible. I guess the attention and whatnot from dramatic escalations is a motivator, but holy crap it seems like she could get enough sympathy off the spinal disease.

 

[CaseyTatumm]

A little odd that Victoria claims her PHP is communicating confidential information with her through email and not Epic/MyChart. Like, yeah, of course the ER doctors wouldn't take that seriously.

I don’t even think they would be allowed to do that since her personal email is not secure like MyChart.

 

[not124get]

Here is an equally confusing update based on Facebook. I miss the cult. Must tell Kiley she's pretty the right way so I can in lol.

@ I have no clue who you are, but don't cowtip. It's weird. Also, posting these normal, non-lolcow pictures of this woman in her life is weird. How is this supposed to be funny?

What you don't understand is this was necessary to get back in a place where I could collect information for the farm. I had followed kiley for a long time and was even in her support cult before she was profiled here. I saw a Reddit post and followed some comments that eventually got me here and to the Kiley Chronicles. I was able to glean information while active here for a short time. Then kiley got doxxed by a gaggle of angry sex workers after making her onlyfans this year and essentially stopped posting again. Kiley posted facebook stories with videos the women sent her after she helped a pedophile. A website explains the situation but it's written by people who don't seem to have passed 4th grade. I'll find it and do an edit with a link minus this sentence. Kiley alleged and demonstrated in stories the that the women were posting her Omaha checkins, pictures of sugar daddy Marc, her real address, and stolen onlyfans pictures. Because of the sex worker onslaught, kiley became aware everything she posted was being watched snd shared with potential internet creeps and took another big break from social media. That is one chunk of time still not understood.

Kiley is very difficult to track and place even having followed her for many years. She often posts at a six month or greater delay and went mostly AWOL during the the periods of time the incomparable Kate Farms Shill discusses and analyzes for you. Kiley stopped posting during most of the time of her alleged Sandy poisoning and only later started dropping accusations against sandy.

I saw what had to be my favorite munchie duscussed on a Reddit post and followed the comments to eventually wound up here. I acknowledge I'm not a true member in the sense that the girls are not my hobby - just Kiley's munching. Though Vampire Kelly admittedly siphoned off 6 hours of my life that are irretrievable.

Because I got unfriended by kiley, there is a gap in what I've been able to report. Now I can see her profile again and can look back further. She has a God-tier fifteen year-old facebook account. It is a lot to digest.

Pics with guys, then a kid, then different guys, and it's all over the place after that. I want to know what started the munching. My farm favorite since posting here, as I said, is Vampire Kelly. What was their munching tipping point?

I feel like kiley's behavior is related to her relationship with the child in some way. I'm fixated on whether kiley had a kid or not. If she did and it died, I think that set the stage for blaming her mom for poisoning her. I cannot find that particular information. That is all.

Skelly Kiley and Vampire Kelly are my favorite munchies because I do not understand what turned them into what they are. They fascinate me by the extent of their convictions. With most, it's fairly obvious. Kelly is not forthcoming about past abuse but acknowledges it. Kiley has so much info available that sifting through it and making sense is virtually impossible. But at the same time, like kelly, a lot really doesn't say much.

I will attempt to answer KFS's questions. For the "newfags," these are paraphrases from kiley's cult group. Kiley talked about Matt and Sandy about evenly. She eventually talked about another character inttoduced later in this post.

Spoiler: on more current posts, kiley focuses only on sandy and the newer character

Attached photos

Kiley binge drinks for her birthday

Next she announces a fundraiser and begins claiming an adult failure to thrive diagnosis. Interestingly, Kiley does not want a feeding tube. Kiley's Amazon email address is Matt's last name.

Sandys Linkin indicates she was a laboratory systems manager of some sort. Does anyone know what that actually means? Could sandy have tampered with kileys lab results instead of kiley? We've been giving kiley a lot of poisoning mastermind credit that perhaps could be attributed to sandy. This whole story involves kileys very odd laboratory results, documented weight loss, and allegations kiley made against sandy. Kiley denies medical care was allowed by sandy and says sandy basically kept telling her she was dying for months. Even if sandy only said that once or twice, it's sus. Does Sandy give anyone else sociopath and possible Munch vibes?

In her group, Kiley said that she tried to leave Florida for a couple months and Sandy told her she had no home in Nebraska. Kiley claims to have flown back to maintain the house and hired someone to do the yardwork during her Floridian absence. That is where another character enters the story.

Miley's mystery gardener is named Nicholas/Nick. He comes out of left field. I cannot figure out the story on them. Nicholas materializes from thin air and starts telling kiley she needs to come home from Florida. She has called matt and nicholas both exes in various posts.

Eventually, kiley's uncle, sandy's brother offered to take kiley in if she came back to Nebraska. Sandy wanted matt to keep kiley, but he bought the return slip.

For her flight from Florida to Nebraska, she had a huge list of disability accommodations. Kiley had a wheelchair transport and help boarding the plane. It physically pains me to not have that picture because there were a couple others I cannot remember. Possibly visually impaired.

Kiley claimed her dog was poisoned in Florida with only the landlord home before she returned to Nebraska. Matt rushed the dog to an emergency vet. The dog was treated acutely for fertilizer poisoning. Kiley posted paperwork. The dog had to have a fluid pouch and slew of medications.. I bet someone forgot the fertilizer was out and the dog did what dogs do - get into shit they're not supposed to that idiot humans leave out. After rommel's poisoning, kiley refused to return to the Florida house. Matt packed everything after undergoing major surgery. She stayed somewhere in Tampa until she wasn't welcome anymore, then matt got her an airbnb after booking her flight to Nebraska.

Kiley claims she died in an ambulance around that time in Florida and posted screenshots begging sandy to let her come back to Nebraska for a couple months. She talked about a near death experience and posted crossover posts from a Reddit account.

Before she left Florida, kiley claimed she filed two incident reports - one for the dog poisoning and another for tampered medications.

To KFS, kiley gave quite a list of reasons for leaving florida, those are what I can remember.

It seemed like kiley had a great thing going for herself. Matt was the good guy at the beginning. Now, I do not think matt ever had good intentions. Based on pre-ED compared to ED compared to Florida pictures, kiley did poorly with matt.

Interesting because fwiw, kiley seems to have had her own money. She mentioned two personal injury settlements in the cult and claimes that's why sandy always found ways to keep her. Kiley has many pictures and posts showing the promotional modeling. No idea what that type of "model" makes, but she posted ads for girls at $25 per hour for different things in the '00's and '10's.

Kiley sent tons of audios to us. Then the cult would agree with their leader and try to strategize for her. All of the audios error out now. I saved a couple but have never been able to upload them in a way that works. Matt wanted to put kiley's money into an account in his name "for her" so sandy could not take it anymore. I didn't really think much about that audio, but reviewed it. Matt sounds like a charming psychopath, almost like a Scott Peterson.

Regarding what was causing kiley to "be sick" in Florida, kiley wasn't sure and wanted to see her general practitioner in Nebraska. She claimed matt wouldn't let her leave because he thought she would never come back. She claims sandy denied a return to Nebraska because kiley needs to learn how to solve problems and work things out with matt. Sandy rejected the idea of "rescuing" kiley or letting her leave Florida.

Kiley posted hundreds of screenshots with matt in the cult. For the newfags - I did not expect the group to abruptly end.. One that stuck was matt said he'd buy kileys plane ticket, and then used kileys debit card. Weird flex. Not weird her money was used for her own flight, but that matt had that level of access to or control over kileys finances. Kiley always emphasized she left Florida with only a backpack and her dog because she was "too sick" to pack and matt didn't want her to leave, so he wouldn't help her.

Nicholas and John, kiley's dad picked her up from the airport in Nebraska, Thst created more tension with matt. Nicholas became a big part of the kiley saga in the cult. By the time she stopped cult group posting, she stopped mentioning nicholas. I don't want to spoil the milk, but nicholas comes up again in the not so distant past and possibly present at the time of this writing.

Kiley decided to "make a statement" about nicholas after her birthday meltdown. I found pictures she probably forgot to delete. He looks 16. Also have a picture of sandy from the time kiley was claiming her mom made her do involuntarily servitude in the form of airbnb hosting. A screenshot of a picture of a phone I think?

There are two other big missing chunks of time I'm currently trying to fill in myself and without being spoilery to the overall timeline. Kiley had tons of pictures with Nicholas then deleted them all. It appears they traveled together some. Kiley disappeared from social media for a coupke months around then. Kileys now deleted posts were from Tennessee and Arkansas with nicholas. Here is what I've been able to piece together. If it's wrong, it's because her shit doesn't make sense.

2018 Nebraska moved to > Florida with Matt > visit Nebraska with Nicholas > sick in Florida > went to see doctor in Nebraska > back to matt in Florida because sandy was "killing her" > back to Nebraska because matt was killing her

2019 Nebraska investigation opens and closes > goes to Tennessee and then > to Arkansas and back to > Nebraska all with Nicholas

That was all before May when John, kileys dad died. When kiley returned to Nebraska, her dad supposedly had that "cryptic" conversation where she claims he said something she won't reveal that implicates sandy. John died soon after. Kiley claims her "nana," sandys mom, also started to implicate sandy right before she died. I don't remember the cause of death, but nana fell or was pushed which started the dying process.

Spoiler alert - based on Kiley's facebook stories, Nicholas is being investigated by detectives at the time of this writing. Kiley posted stories with official looking mail and police letterhead. I do not know what the alleged complaints are. Will update as I learn more. Don't know what to make of it.

 

[Reddit Refugee]

What should have been the obvious possibility that Toombes deliberately self sabotaged b/c it made her a more sympathetic plaintiff in a million pound lawsuit just occurred to me.

This makes some sense especially considering that one of the facts established by the judge is that Evie's mobility was "very limited" when there are videos of her walking and photos squatting in positions that would be very difficult to either get into, out of or maintain for someone with a lower limb neuro deficit. Maybe the law has a different definition of the word very than I hold. If you're a partially ambulant wheelchair user then you're only partially limited.

The potassium stuff started when she was 16 or 17 so I'm not convinced the legal stuff would have been the main reason but certainly could be possible that it was a perpetuating factor.

Also, did a bit more digging and found the petition Mummy Toombes had mentioned on Twitter. Nothing interesting apart from her potassium dropping below 2.5 which at a cursory glance classes it as severe but I guess that was inferred anyways given the twice weekly infusions and reluctance to send her home.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

I love how I wander into this thread like "oh persistent hypokalemia that might be Gitelman" and see a picture and that bitch being starved to death.

 

[TheBigZee]

The potassium stuff started when she was 16 or 17 so I'm not convinced the legal stuff would have been the main reason but certainly could be possible that it was a perpetuating factor.

Definitely related to nutrition. But the mom and the girl would both have to be in on it.

As far as her spinal/neurological issues, it's hard to say. Eating disorder might have come from her shitting herself publicly repeatedly and wanted it to stop. I'm inclined to believe that she has objectively measurable deficits and the judge didn't just go off the mom's good word. The deformity caused enough problems that it was detected at 1. Whatever they did to fix it can always cause more problems later.

edit: I'm knowledgeable of problems from spondylolisthesis and disc disease. Stuff like neurogenic claudication, balance deficits, and even transient defects where somenes foot might drop for half a day and then go back to normal seemingly at random. Could be she walks two blocks and needs to sit, even with a rollator or cane. Work can be limited by need to change position to manage pain - sit/stand/lay as needed is almost garaunteed disability in the US if you can demonstrate the need on an MRI. Not that she has any of that, but with a spinal deformity it's possible.

No, actually I am wrong about the judge hearing medical evidence. British court is weird. The absolute only fact considered in the trial was whether the doctor advised the mother about folic acid supplementation. Because he couldn't prove he did based on his medical notes, he's responsible for her conception. She could have sued over an ugly scar from a cleft lip and won - the only difference will be the compensation ultimately determined.

Man, the medical system in the UK is getting ready to get buried under these lawsuits against any doctor that took minimal notes in family planning sessions.

 

[Grey B. Train]

No, actually I am wrong about the judge hearing medical evidence. British court is weird. The absolute only fact considered in the trial was whether the doctor advised the mother about folic acid supplementation. Because he couldn't prove he did based on his medical notes, he's responsible for her conception. She could have sued over an ugly scar from a cleft lip and won - the only difference will be the compensation ultimately determined.

Man, the medical system in the UK is getting ready to get buried under these lawsuits against any doctor that took minimal notes in family planning sessions.

I'm in the US and I find it hilarious that because I'm female and of child-bearing age (barely) my doctor's office sent me a message yesterday about being sure to take Folic Acid because there's a chance I could get pregnant. It seems some American doctors are watching the court case in the UK.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

I'm in the US and I find it hilarious that because I'm female and of child-bearing age (barely) my doctor's office sent me a message yesterday about being sure to take Folic Acid because there's a chance I could get pregnant. It seems some American doctors are watching the court case in the UK.

Yeah we're all watching it because this is the most insane thing ever.

To be honest folic acid supplementation is a good idea but, like, it's not super necessary unless you eat a horrible diet. Oh wait shit that applies to most people in the US. Folate's in leafy greens and beans and whole grains and not french fries. Damn it.

 

[TheBigZee]

Don't get too caught up in the specifics. Evie blames the doctor for existing - not spina bifida. The argument was that if her mom had waited to conceive until after she'd started taking a supplement, evie would not exist. Because the doctor didn't inform her mom, the doctor committed malpractice. Because evie only exists due to his malpractice, he's responsible for any other liability (like her spina bifida).

Other people said this, but it didn't sink in because it's a mindfuck. I assume if they can't reach a settlement figure with whoever pays malpractice claims in the UK it will go to a third stage, which is determining damages. I've got no clue if under UK law the doctor "bought the whole farm" for Evies medical issues (presumably, since he's responsbible for her existence).

Evie is the one who claimed the settlement will be worth millions. Her lawyers were quick to correct that damages had not been determined but "they were almost certain to be very large".

 

[Reddit Refugee]

British court is weird. The absolute only fact considered in the trial was whether the doctor advised the mother about folic acid supplementation.

There are laws about what makes a fact in the legal sense. I am just going to link this and pretend that I am intelligent enough to understand it.

Spoiler: The facts according to the judge of the preliminary ruling

The Agreed Facts
I set out below the salient agreed facts relevant to the preliminary issue trial.

a. The Claimant was conceived in early 2001. Before conception, the Claimant's mother attended an appointment with the Defendant, her general practitioner, to discuss family planning. This appointment took place on 27 February 2001.

b. At the time, it was standard practice for GPs to advise prospective mothers of the potential benefits of taking sufficient folic acid before conception and during the first trimester. It was understood that an adequate intake may potentially reduce the risk of a baby being born with neural tube defects.

c. The Defendant advised the Claimant's mother that taking folic acid was optional and that it was for her to decide whether to take the supplement. The Defendant did not warn the Claimant's mother of any association between folic acid intake and the prevention of spina bifida. He did not prescribe her folic acid supplements. In so doing, the Defendant acted in breach of duty to the Claimant's mother.

d. Shortly after the consultation and in reliance upon the Defendant's advice, the Claimant was conceived. The Claimant was born on 19 November 2001. The Claimant was diagnosed with a lipomylomeningocoele (LMM), an occult form of neural tube defect leading to permanent disability.

e. For the purposes of this preliminary issues trial, it is accepted that:

i. The Defendant's failure to advise the Claimant's mother that she should take folic acid supplement, and to prescribe the supplement, was a breach of the duty of care (owed to the Claimant's mother);

ii. But for that breach of duty, the Claimant's mother would have delayed attempting to conceive for a number of weeks whilst she increased her intake of folic acid and achieved the therapeutic level of the folic acid in her bloodstream which she would then have maintained during the first 12 weeks of the pregnancy;

iii. The Claimant was, in fact, conceived shortly after the consultation and during the time which, but for the breach, the Claimant's mother would have been increasing her intake of folic acid and avoiding conception. It follows that, but for the breach, the Claimant would not have been conceived and born at all. This reflects the Claimant's case on causation which is that: "she was wrongly conceived and born and that her damage and disability is due to this. Her claim is that her mother would not have conceived her, that her mother would have attempted conception at a later point in time and hence that a sibling, not the Claimant, would have been conceived and born"; and

iv. The sibling would have been "a genetically different person" who would not have suffered from a neural tube defect.

f. In fact, the Claimant has a younger sibling, who was born without congenital defects.

Evie blames the doctor for existing - not spina bifida.

To add to this for everyone's benefit: Evie's type of spina bifida - a lipomyelomeningocoele - is not linked to folic acid deficiency.

I can't believe I forgot to include this in my earlier post but there was this comment by the judge in the recent judgement on Caroline Toombes' attitude about not being able to accept this but Evie does:

Whether or not the claimant is in fact of the opinion that her LMM was not preventable by folic acid, it was apparent to me that Mrs Toombes was not really willing to concede that point, but she also clearly struggled with the idea of disagreeing with her daughter. In any event I heard no expert evidence on the point.

Spoiler: The rest of that paragraph for the legal boffins

The particulars of claim specifically plead at paragraph 4 that there are studies which cast doubt on the relationship between occult spinal defects and open neural tube defects. The reliance by the claimant is on the advice that should have been given to her mother in respect of folic acid. As pleaded at paragraphs 6 and 7, it is the claimant's case that had Mrs Toombes been so advised she would have followed that advice and would have refrained from attempting to conceive immediately. This has always been the pleaded case and was in the draft particulars of claim sent on 16th May 2018.

r/medicine - What does r/medicine think about the recent controversy where, the girl born with Spina Bifida, blamed her mom's doctor for it and sued him (and won)? Link in text.

512 votes and 322 comments so far on Reddit

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The doctors of reddit are livid about this case. And you don't have to scroll far to find them calling her out as part of the eating disorder munchausen EDS feeding toob industrial complex they're now having to deal with.

I went back to the thread and just want to archive this tweet they dug up.

Comment from that post that I laughed at:

Cue court case in 20 years: ”the gastroenterologist missed her psychiatric condition”

Man, the medical system in the UK is getting ready to get buried under these lawsuits against any doctor that took minimal notes in family planning sessions.

r/JuniorDoctorsUK - Landmark ruling as a doctor has been found liable for poor pre-contraception advice 20 years ago allegedly resulting in a child born with spina bifida.

247 votes and 147 comments so far on Reddit

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Here are some local opinions from the concerned profession.

Sorry for the lengthy and disorganised posts, I am trying to keep them short and sweet but every time I look back at the documents I see more interesting snippets.