Greyfield
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2019
Finland was more of a defeat in victory rather than an outright defeat. The Soviets technically won the conflict and got a favourable treaty after the battle, it just took a humiliatingly long time and cost a ton of casualties. Here's some fun history on that war for those interested:
Stalin never wanted the war with Finland in the first place. He wanted to make a deal with them where he'd trade Soviet land for Finnish land around Leningrad, because he knew if the Nazis invaded they'd use Finland as a springboard to encircle Leningrad from, so Stalin wanted more space where he could reinforce the area. The original deal was the Finns would get even more land than the Soviets were getting, just less strategically valuable land.
This deal making failed for 2 reasons. The Finnish constitution at the time legally prevented them from doing this, but more importantly was that they didn't trust the Soviets. They were seen as just another version of the Russian Empire, and the Finns weren't too big on communism.
So Stalin would meet personally with delegate after delegate, offering better and better deals in order to get what he wanted, but the Finns still refused. He was deeply insulted that even him personally showing up to negotiations didn't move them an inch, so he decided to take the land by force. He staged a false flag attack where he fired an artillery shell on his own men, and then declared war on Finland (when Hitler did this with Poland, he fired on Poles dressed as Nazis instead firing on actual Nazis for the false flag).
He didn't want a long drawn out war at all. The thing to understand about Stalin is that he was a political mind, not a military mind. A long war with Finland means international scrutiny in a world where the Nazis are supposed to be the sole bad guy. More than anything, Stalin wants the focus on the Nazis, to weaken them as much as possible, so the Finn stuff had to be wrapped up fast. The problem is, the Finns are not the Poles, they understand warfare in a way Stalin didn't grasp. He forced his generals into a rush encirclement strategy, rather than the slow tank build up down the middle that they advised, because he wanted a quick end to the conflict. On top of that, he put the hack general (and one of his personal best friends) Voroshilov in charge of the operation. As you know, that strategy failed spectacularily.
You know the story. The snipers, the cocktails, the mass casualities in the snow, the skis, and so on, it was a global embarrassment. Following the huge delays, Stalin did some things he very rarely did. He apologized profusely to his generals for screwing the operation up, sacked Voroshilov, let them go with their original slower strategy, and watched them work. He also ordered a complete reorientation of the Red Army in order to better prepare them for the coming conflict.
In the end, the Finns were brought to the table by the Soviets to sign a treaty that was far harsher than what they were originally offered, but still a way better deal than any defeated power had the right to expect. Stalin still wanted the conflict over with as soon as possible to not further poison his relationship with the international community (as he'd already been kicked out of the League of Nations following the invasion), which turned out to be the exact right move because people basically forgot about the conflict soon after it ended. The Finns were still pissed though since a signifcant amount of territory was taken, and 1/3 of their economy was snatched from them just like that.
The outcomes of this conflict were significant.
The Red Army looked weak on a world stage, but the humiliation spurred them into getting way more organized and better prepared.
Finland was eager to join up with the Nazis to take back their land, but also because they had territorial ambitions beyond what was taken from them and they wanted to join in on the Nazi feeding frenzy. The Nazis, who were very angry with the Soviet attack on Finland (even though it was agreed they'd get that land in their pact) due to their Nordic origin, ironically did not understand how to fight the Soviets as well as the Finns did. While the Red Army was comparitively less disciplined, it was capable of learning and doing huge damage if given the opportunity.
Mannerheim knew how to switch it up enough to prevent the Soviets from fully getting their footing, the Nazi leadership meanwhile, genuinely thought the Slavic people were subhumans incapable of adaption. Another thing Finns understood is how to hedge, since they actually refused to directly participate in the encirclment of Leningrad in huge numbers because they knew if the Soviets won, that they'd never be forgiven. Betraying the Nazis when the war turned, and giving up even more land (along with refusing to join the capitalist block post war) saved Finland from the fate of many other nations post war. Stalin said the Finnish people owed a lot to Mannerheim after WW2.
The Winter War is a hugely important, if underdiscussed chapter in WW2 beyond deformed sniper memes.
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