The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

6 gorillion kikes is a statistic.

Won't someone think of (or at least mention) the 12 million other people murdered by Socialist Germany?

No, because all the dead poles and Gypsies committed the crime of being dirt poor.

 

[Chugger]

Happened, but what has been put in the books is mostly fantasy for political and sympathetic gain. No gas chambers, no gas trucks, no murder coasters. Just starvation, shootings, and disease. The contents of this thread and cited articles are more then enough to prove that.

Regarding the subject of shootings Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men is a good book, relying mostly on West German civilian trial testimony.

In a way the shootings were more fantastic and monstrous than the gassings, eg this secretly recorded conversation, quoted in the book Soldaten

MINNIEUR (re execution of Jews in LITHUANIA, near VILNA while he was a
member of the “Arbeitsdienst”): They had to strip to their shirts
and the women to their vests and knickers and then they were
shot by the “Gestapo.” All the Jews there were executed.
HARTELT: In their shirts?
MINNIEUR: Yes.
HARTELT: What was the reason for that?
MINNIEUR: Well, so that they don’t take anything into the grave with
them. The things were collected up, cleaned and mended.
HARTELT: They used them, did they?
MINNIEUR: Yes, of course.
HARTELT: (Laughs.)
MINNIEUR: Believe me, if you had seen it it would have made you
shudder! We watched one of these executions once.
HARTELT: Did they shoot them with machine guns?
MINNIEUR: With tommy guns … We were actually there when a pretty
girl was shot.
HARTELT: What a pity.
MINNIEUR: They were all shot ruthlessly! She knew that she was going
to be shot. We were going past on motor cycles and saw a
procession; suddenly she called to us and we stopped and asked
where they were going. She said they were going to be shot. At
first we thought she was making some sort of a joke. She more or
less told us the way to where they were going. We rode there and
—it was quite true—they were shot.
HARTELT: Did she walk there in her clothes?
MINNIEUR: Yes, she was smartly dressed. She certainly was a
marvellous girl.
HARTELT: Surely the one who shot her, shot wide.
MINNIEUR: No one can do anything about it. With … like that no one
shoots wide. They arrived and the first ones had to line up and
were shot. The fellows were standing there with their tommy guns
and just sprayed quickly up and down the line, once to the right
and once to the left with their tommy guns; there were six men
there and a row of—
HARTELT: Then no one knew who had shot the girl?
MINNIEUR: No, they didn’t know. They clipped on a magazine, fired to
the right and left and that was that! It didn’t matter whether they
were still alive or not; when they were hit they fell over
backwards into a pit. Then the next group came up with ashes
and chloride of lime and scattered it over those who were lying
down there; then they lined up and so it went on.
HARTELT: Did they have to cover them? Why was that?
MINNIEUR: Because the bodies would rot; they tipped chloride of lime
over them so that there should be no smell and all that.
HARTELT: What about the people who were in there who were not
properly dead yet?
MINNIEUR: That was bad luck for them; they died down there!
HARTELT: (Laughs.)
MINNIEUR: I can tell you, you heard a terrific screaming and shrieking!
HARTELT: Were the women shot at the same time?
MINNIEUR: Yes.
HARTELT: Were you watching when the pretty Jewess was there?
MINNIEUR: No, we weren’t there then. All we know was that she was
shot.
HARTELT: Did she say anything beforehand? Had you met her before?
MINNIEUR: Yes, we met her the day before; the next day we wondered
why she didn’t come. Then we set off on the motor-cycle.
HARTELT: Was she working there too?
MINNIEUR: Yes.
HARTELT: Making roads?
MINNIEUR: No, she cleaned our barracks. The week we were there we
went into the barracks to sleep so that we didn’t … outside—
HARTELT: I bet she let you sleep with her too?
MINNIEUR: Yes, but you had to take care not to be found out. It’s
nothing now; it was really a scandal, the way they slept with
Jewish women.
HARTELT: What did she say, that she—?
MINNIEUR: Nothing at all. Well, we chatted together and she said she
came from down there, from LANDSBERG on the WARTHE, and was at
GÖTTINGEN university.
HARTELT: And a girl like that let anyone sleep with her!
MINNIEUR: Yes. You couldn’t tell that she was a Jewess; she was quite
a nice type, too. It was just her bad luck that she had to die with
the others. 75,000 Jews were shot there.

I read that most of the ire Nazis had for juice was mainly caused by the rich ones(which were most of them) in Germany. Polish Jews in comparison didn't really do much. They were also apparently poorer than their German counterparts

Poland was the breeding ground apparently

 

[potato in mah painus]

Regarding the subject of shootings Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men is a good book, relying mostly on West German civilian trial testimony.

In a way the shootings were more fantastic and monstrous than the gassings, eg this secretly recorded conversation, quoted in the book Soldaten




Poland was the breeding ground apparently

There is a nagging thing about the way the translation is done... specifically the guns used. Germans didn't have tommy guns, the mp 40 was the only thing they had that even resembled. Even then, the nickname the mp 40 had doesn't even have a direct English translation, it was the name of the creator.
So that is intentionally mistranslated for an American audience. That throws the rest of the book into question on its legitimacy, especally considering the exchanges depected in it are hearsay and gossip among solders.

Edit: Christ how can you cite this piece of shit as a source, I got to read 10 pages of garbage in between two recorded accounts. The author was happier write down pages of huffing his own farts then actually presenting what the germans were saying.

 

[Chugger]

There is a nagging thing about the way the translation is done... specifically the guns used. Germans didn't have tommy guns, the mp 40 was the only thing they had that even resembled. Even then, the nickname the mp 40 had doesn't even have a direct English translation, it was the name of the creator.
So that is intentionally mistranslated for an American audience. That throws the rest of the book into question on its legitimacy, especally considering the exchanges depected in it are hearsay and gossip among solders.

That's just how the Brits translated these conversations, see:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Bruns/CSDICb.html

BRUNS: I'll tell you something: some of the details may have been correct, but it was remarkable that the firing squad detailed that morning - six men with tommy-guns were posted at each pit; the pits were 24 m in length and 3 m in breadth - they had to lie down like sardines in a tin, with their heads in the centre. Above there were six men with tommy-guns who gave them the coup de grâce.

and in original German

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Bruns/CSDIC.html

BRUNS: Ich will Ihnen etwas sagen: es mag das eine oder andere gestimmt haben, es ist aber auffallend, dass das Exekutionskommando, was an dem Morgen da erschoss, also an jeder Grube sechs Maschinenpistolenschützen--die Gruben waren 24 m lang und ungefähr 3 m breit, mussten sich hinlegen wie die Sardinen in einer Büchse, Kopfe nach der Mitte. Oben sechs Maschinenpistolenschützen, die dann den Genickschuss beibrachten.

Maschinenpistolenschützen is absolutely the correct term

David Irving was the one who found these files, he explains their importance here , 4 minutes in

especally considering the exchanges depected in it are hearsay and gossip among solders.

They're exchanges where German soldiers and officers describe directly witnessing atrocities committed by their own side, or even committing them, under no judicial coercion. They're probably the best source imaginable in this situation, next to the killings being filmed or something

Edit: Christ how can you cite this piece of shit as a source, I got to read 10 pages of garbage in between two recorded accounts. The author was happier write down pages of huffing his own farts then actually presenting what the germans were saying.

I didn't cite it as a source lol, it's book that like most other history books includes or references primary sources that the author explains and contextualizes. You might prefer Tapping Hitler's Generals, which is just straight transcripts, with commentary only at the beginning

 

[Bonesjones]

There is a nagging thing about the way the translation is done... specifically the guns used. Germans didn't have tommy guns, the mp 40 was the only thing they had that even resembled. Even then, the nickname the mp 40 had doesn't even have a direct English translation, it was the name of the creator.
So that is intentionally mistranslated for an American audience. That throws the rest of the book into question on its legitimacy, especally considering the exchanges depected in it are hearsay and gossip among solders.

Edit: Christ how can you cite this piece of shit as a source, I got to read 10 pages of garbage in between two recorded accounts. The author was happier write down pages of huffing his own farts then actually presenting what the germans were saying.

Chugger is clearly a shill who will post endless accounts of nothing but won't post physical proof that it ever actually happened. Imagine if someone said pearl harbor never happened and instead of posting pictures of the wreckage, you started quoting movies.

 

[Chugger]

Chugger is clearly a shill who will post endless accounts of nothing but won't post physical proof that it ever actually happened. Imagine if someone said pearl harbor never happened and instead of posting pictures of the wreckage,

Well the Germans wouldn't have been to keen on posting pictures of mass killings they had committed. There are orders banning taking photos at shootings. Yet more than a few exist, due to just how widespread these killings were. MINNIEUR and HARTELT were discussing the shootings outside of the Vilna, that is at Ponary, and there are some photos of that

Ponary - Vilna During the Holocaust - The Jerusalem of Lithuania: The Story of the Jewish Community of Vilna

I don't think there are pictures of bodies there (at other places yes), but you can see certain details like how the Jews were taken to this location in fenced trenches so they couldn't easily escape

you started quoting movies.

It does seem like a movie actually, the first good Holocaust movie? There's nothing sappy or overdramatic about the account. It has as David Irving says, an air of verisimilitude, which is exactly what you want it in a movie. Except it's not a movie.

 

[Bonesjones]

Well the Germans wouldn't have been to keen on posting pictures of mass killings they had committed. There are orders banning taking photos at shootings. Yet more than a few exist, due to just how widespread these killings were. MINNIEUR and HARTELT were discussing the shootings outside of the Vilna, that is at Ponary, and there are some photos of that

Ponary - Vilna During the Holocaust - The Jerusalem of Lithuania: The Story of the Jewish Community of Vilna

I don't think there are pictures of bodies there (at other places yes), but you can see certain details like how the Jews were taken to this location in fenced trenches so they couldn't easily escape


It does seem like a movie actually, the first good Holocaust movie? There's nothing sappy or overdramatic about the account. It has as David Irving says, an air of verisimilitude, which is exactly what you want it in a movie. Except it's not a movie.

You still haven't posted direct physical evidence of any of it happening. You know direct orders or actual autopsies. Weird for how "well documented" it all is. Almost like it's a distraction from the truth and a fabrication of the allies. You refuse to answer simple yes or no questions and the longer you avoid them the more damning it is to anything you say.

 

[Chugger]

You still haven't posted direct physical evidence of any of it happening. You know direct orders

Well I posted this yesterday for Rapechu to take a look at:

The Extermination of Jews and the Fight Against the Partisans in Byelorussia

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

It is a document that revisionists believe is authentic and about killing, (see Mattogno's comments last page)

It's interesting because it voices explicitly the full support of the highest civilian authority in Belarus for the shooting of 55,000 in 3 months in 1942, saying that Jewry has been largely "eliminated" and in the future should be completely "eliminated". The Jews killed include women, children, elderly, unfit for work, and Jews from Germany that don't speak Russian or Polish. In other words they are killing all Jews. This is genocide.

But another interesting thing about the document is it gives a justification for these shootings-- the Jews are being killed because they provide vital support to the Partisans. Mattogno's translation: "the danger that the partisans will, in future, derive any important support from the Jews will then have ceased to exist"

So there was clearly an organized total genocide happening, but from the Nazi perspective it was justified.

 

[Bonesjones]

Well I posted this yesterday for Rapechu to take a look at:

The Extermination of Jews and the Fight Against the Partisans in Byelorussia

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

It is a document that revisionists believe is authentic and about killing, (see Mattogno's comments last page)

It's interesting because it voices explicitly the full support of the highest civilian authority in Belarus for the shooting of 55,000 in 3 months, saying that Jewry has been largely "eliminated" and in the future should be completely "eliminated". The Jews killed include women, children, elderly, unfit for work, and Jews from Germany that don't speak Russian or Polish. In other words they are killing all Jews. This is genocide.

But another interesting thing about the document is it gives a justification for these shootings-- the Jews are being killed because they provide vital support to the Partisans. Mattogno's translation: "the danger that the partisans will, in future, derive any important support from the Jews will then have ceased to exist"

So there was clearly an organized total genocide happening, but from the Nazi perspective it was justified.

Is it a direct quote from Hitler? Oh it's not. Man this is so hard. Not being able to find direct physical proof of the things you claim!

It isn't an autopsy report of someone being gassed either. Wow incredible.

You fail at the most basic assertion. You are a failure at everything but the most juvenile manipulation.

 

[Chugger]

Is it a direct quote from Hitler?

Why does it have to be a direct quote from Hitler?

It's a document from the Governor of Belarus, he was for sure more closely involved with events there than Hitler.

 

[Bonesjones]

Why does it have to be a direct quote from Hitler?

It's a document from the Governor of Belarus, he was for sure more closely involved with events there than Hitler.

The holocaust is claimed the be the genocide of the Jews by the Nazi Government. You have to prove intent and execution, which you can prove neither. This requires direct orders that Hitler wanted them exterminated. This also requires that they actually followed those commands. I know you are pretending to be retarded almost as well as you are actually retarded.

So yes or no:

1. You can prove Hitler ordered the holocaust with direct physical proof.

2. You can prove jews were actually gassed with direct physical proof.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

The holocaust is claimed the be the genocide of the Jews by the Nazi Government. You have to prove intent and execution, which you can prove neither. This requires direct orders that Hitler wanted them exterminated. This also requires that they actually followed those commands. I know you are pretending to be retarded almost as well as you are actually retarded.

So yes or no:

1. You can prove Hitler ordered the holocaust with direct physical proof.

2. You can prove jews were actually gassed with direct physical proof.

The Swedes have actual gas chambers now for killing people. It’s basically a suicide booth.

 

[Chugger]

The holocaust is claimed the be the genocide of the Jews by the Nazi Government.

Kube was a senior official in the Nazi government. He was the highest civilian authority in Belarus.

 

[Bonesjones]

Kube was a senior official in the Nazi government. He was the highest civilian authority in Belarus.

So you just admit that you have neither.

 

[Spooky Transphobe Man!]

Y'know the thing I don't get about holocaust deniers is that they are most often Nazi's themselves. If you hate "de jooz" so much why not be proud of the time they nearly got wiped off the fucking earth. I don't care how much pseudo-science bullshit you show me, you can't fake over 6 million deaths.

 

[Bonesjones]

Y'know the thing I don't get about holocaust deniers is that they are most often Nazi's themselves. If you hate "de jooz" so much why not be proud of the time they nearly got wiped off the fucking earth. I don't care how much pseudo-science bullshit you show me, you can't fake over 6 million deaths.

Then prove it happened, if it's so easy.

 

[Chugger]

Y'know the thing I don't get about holocaust deniers is that they are most often Nazi's themselves. If you hate "de jooz" so much why not be proud of the time they nearly got wiped off the fucking earth. I don't care how much pseudo-science bullshit you show me, you can't fake over 6 million deaths.

I met one guy on twitter who believed this unironically. He wasn't being an edgelord or anything but as a dedicated Nazi thought it had been a good thing to take out a healthy chunk of the enemy. "Who knows how much worse the world would be if all those Jews were still alive" Interestingly enough he was very a pleasant guy to talk to lol

So you just admit that you have neither.

Bonesjones, you said: "You have to prove intent and execution, which you can prove neither. This requires direct orders that Hitler wanted them exterminated"

I don't agree with this statement, and you seem like a troll and not someone approaching the issue with an open mind, so I will not be engaging with you. I tried to dialogue again with the Kube letter, which shows "intent and execution", but you blew it

 

[Spooky Transphobe Man!]

Then prove it happened, if it's so easy.

Bonesjones is a fat neo-fascist troll who secretly watches interracial gay porn and I would never ever have sex with him drunk nor sober.

 

[Bonesjones]

I met one guy on twitter who believed this unironically. He wasn't being an edgelord or anything but as a dedicated Nazi thought it had been a good thing to take out a healthy chunk of the enemy. "Who knows how much worse the world would be if all those Jews were still alive" Interestingly enough he was very a pleasant guy to talk to lol


Bonesjones, you said: "You have to prove intent and execution, which you can prove neither. This requires direct orders that Hitler wanted them exterminated"

I don't agree with this statement, and you seem like a troll and not someone approaching the issue with an open mind, so I will not be engaging with you. I tried to dialogue again with the Kube letter, which shows "intent and execution", but you blew it

Hey look you proved me right again

 

[Bonesjones]

Bonesjones is a fat neo-fascist troll who secretly watches interracial gay porn and I would never ever have sex with him drunk nor sober.

Who I am isn't important but the fact you can't prove me wrong is