TGWTG Nostalgia Chick / Lindsay Ellis / TheDudette - aka Hotdogs in face girl

Also, I'd like to know what these trends from Twilight and Harry Potter are that you speak of.

Oh man, ask me about my thesis why don't you.

While not exclusive to these two series, and while not entirely responsible for them, Harry Potter and Twilight were the one two punch for many of the worst trends in modern day publishing and spec fiction, including the following:
-More or less creating the entire modern genre of YA Fiction, and the publishers obsession with catering to what they feel to be the most lucrative market
-Killing off pretty much the entire previous YA Market... 20 years ago, YA covered everything from Enders Game to Animorphs to Shannara, you had a wide range aimed toward every kind of reader. How its all various riffs on Harry Potter, Twilight, or crap that caters to those readers, and essentially nobody else, which is a problem, because...
-The real money in YA has never been teenage girls, but single middle aged women, who account for between 50-70 percent of YA readership. That was the big thing publishers noticed about Twilight - what was once called the Twilight mom demo. Tweens grow up and grow out of it... middle age women, especially lonely middle age women, are cash cows hooked for life.
-The impact on spec fiction publishing catering to that demo was what catering to virginial basement dwelling men was to comic books... lucrative at the price of losing all the markets you had before and no growth. Not only do young boys no longer read most modern YA - because almost none of them are written for men - fewer and fewer young female readers do either. Publishers, like the comic book industry, realized too late the new group they built the entire industry around wasn't growing, would never grow, and they would need to increasingly cater to every crazy desire the die hard had in order to keep them around.
-There was a ton of overlap between die hard Potterheads and the older Twihards... ESPECIALLY online.
-Perhaps the most consequential Fueling much of the online fanfic and fandom communities, which is a problem because...
-These upjumped fanfic authors flooded into the industry, all the same middle age female liberal arts majors with bad dyejobs who write the same books. The number of terrible modern spec fiction authors who started writing fanfics range from NK Jemison, to Rae Carson, to Seanan McGuire, to pretty much every last one of the cookie cutter authors I mentioned here.
-Those fandoms quickly became breeding grounds for the most toxic circles in all of speculative fiction - folks who sent death threats to any blogger who trashed Twilight now lead Twitter lynchmobs against authors and people they don't like.
-They were the first fandoms to really take advantage of online networks like Twitter or Tumblr... and they set the drumbeat all the others quickly began dancing to. Which led to...
-You ever wonder where all the woke reboots and crap came from? Corporations who stupidly assumed that Twitter represented the real world, and not a cohort of cat ladies who have no lives.
-Every other annoying trend inserted into pop culture - be it love triangles, Strong Female Characters TM, social justice messaging - came from attempts to cater to this demographic, or as in the case of the speculative fiction industry, because this demo increasingly began taking over spaces that once belonged to more rational people, and turned them into circlejerking echo chambers.
-They became to spec fiction and pop culture especially what your cliché comic book guy nerds were to comics in the 80s and 90s, only magnified by social media and obsession with social justice.

Long story short? You can track every awful trend in modern popular culture over the past 20 years to the same demographic.

You want to track every awful change to pop culture over the past 20 years? It follows the same demographic that became more and more toxic and whose influence only grew over the years, turning into a cancerous feedback loop that kills everything it touches.

The young Harry Potter fangirl became the teenage Twihard, became the 20-something liberal arts major interning for a publisher cranking out or reading YA novels, became the chunky 30 something SJW hipster chick screaming about Gamergate and Sad Puppies, became the sad 40 year old pansexual cat ladies with bad dye jobs who think Twitter and nerdy pop culture need to cater to them because its the only thing that gives their lives meaning anymore... and if they still feel empty, they'll settle for destroying anything other people like, or remaking it in their image.

It's also why that same group has always been Lindsay's core audience and die hard fans - they live vicariously through her, and others like her, for the same reason that
Moviebob and other fat Gen X nerds live vicariously through Kevin Smith... because living vicariously through them is one of the rare things that proves that maybe they haven't wasted their lives basing their entire lives around media that officially was made for children.
 
Especially since the alien is a weird horse/insect thingy, no one besides bronys will this "hot". I don't even know why she put it in there, considering AE is apparently "science fiction", not YA, because being a YA writer is too low for Lindsay's intellectual standards.
I find it funny that she aged the main character from 19 to 21 just so she could avoid it being classified as a YA book. I guess the Hugo crowd would have thought lowly of her if she was simply another moron cashing in on the Twilight trend. Although if she had, she might have been able to sell the book.
 
I find it funny that she aged the main character from 19 to 21 just so she could avoid it being classified as a YA book. I guess the Hugo crowd would have thought lowly of her if she was simply another moron cashing in on the Twilight trend. Although if she had, she might have been able to sell the book.

The Hugo crowd STILL thinks lowly of her... how much of that is envy over how much internet money she has, and how much is the fact she's a breathtakingly awful writer is up in the air.

Why else do you think all the rumors Lindsay bought her nomination exist? Because odds are she did, and as pathetically weak as the Campbell field is, maybe she has a shot.

As if the Hugos had much honor left to lose.
 
The Hugo crowd STILL thinks lowly of her... how much of that is envy over how much internet money she has, and how much is the fact she's a breathtakingly awful writer is up in the air.

Why else do you think all the rumors Lindsay bought her nomination exist? Because odds are she did, and as pathetically weak as the Campbell field is, maybe she has a shot.

As if the Hugos had much honor left to lose.

I don't think the universe could handle the hypocrisy of the Hugo crowd in the last decade looking down on someone for being an awful writer.
 
I don't think the universe could handle the hypocrisy of the Hugo crowd in the last decade looking down on someone for being an awful writer.

As much as I want to gag saying this...

They're not wrong Lindsay is a worse writer than damned near any of them.

I refuse to believe an editor ever looked at her most recent book, because that is a page 1 rewrite. If that came to me from my publisher's slushpile, it would have gone straight into my trashcan, with a form rejection sent out a minute later.

Much of the Hugo incrowd may be BAD writers... but Lindsay is literally only there because a publisher thought she would sell books based on name recognition. She's not a bad writer BECAUSE SHE'S NOT A WRITER.
 
As much as I want to gag saying this...

They're not wrong Lindsay is a worse writer than damned near any of them.

I refuse to believe an editor ever looked at her most recent book, because that is a page 1 rewrite. If that came to me from my publisher's slushpile, it would have gone straight into my trashcan, with a form rejection sent out a minute later.

Much of the Hugo incrowd may be BAD writers... but Lindsay is literally only there because a publisher thought she would sell books based on name recognition. She's not a bad writer BECAUSE SHE'S NOT A WRITER.
You're right, she's just a drunk with a good cult of paypigs that'll delude themselves into loving whatever she shits out.
 
As much as I want to gag saying this...

They're not wrong Lindsay is a worse writer than damned near any of them.

I refuse to believe an editor ever looked at her most recent book, because that is a page 1 rewrite. If that came to me from my publisher's slushpile, it would have gone straight into my trashcan, with a form rejection sent out a minute later.

Much of the Hugo incrowd may be BAD writers... but Lindsay is literally only there because a publisher thought she would sell books based on name recognition. She's not a bad writer BECAUSE SHE'S NOT A WRITER.
And all the other ones are just gunning for an adaptation deal in the age of streaming, are they?
You're right, she's just a drunk with a good cult of paypigs that'll delude themselves into loving whatever she shits out.
I wonder how many big bonanzas one could have when you have a following like Lindsay?
 
Lindsay did not win a coveted Streamy award after her nomination in the commentary category, losing to Drew Gooden who even she has acknowledged is very funny. Last year Hontra won, so perhaps the tide is turning away from overindulgent deep dives on the woke agenda to a less overtly political presentation? lol I'll give myself a rainbow for that one.
 
The Hugo crowd STILL thinks lowly of her... how much of that is envy over how much internet money she has, and how much is the fact she's a breathtakingly awful writer is up in the air.

Why else do you think all the rumors Lindsay bought her nomination exist? Because odds are she did, and as pathetically weak as the Campbell field is, maybe she has a shot.

As if the Hugos had much honor left to lose.
Say what you want, but the Hugo awards have always been an indicator for quality.

It's just that over the past decade, they've been an indicator for books to avoid, rather than to purchase.
 
And all the other ones are just gunning for an adaptation deal in the age of streaming, are they?

I wonder how many big bonanzas one could have when you have a following like Lindsay?

Ha. They wish streamers cared about thier crappy work and Hugos. They actually look at sales numbers... aside from a few like Jemison, that lot has no hope of movie adaptations or the like.

No, the opperating theory among the resistance is they're doing it so they can inevitably get tenured jobs in academia. "I have two Hugos, please pay me to teach people how to write."

Lindsay did not win a coveted Streamy award after her nomination in the commentary category, losing to Drew Gooden who even she has acknowledged is very funny. Last year Hontra won, so perhaps the tide is turning away from overindulgent deep dives on the woke agenda to a less overtly political presentation? lol I'll give myself a rainbow for that one.

Between that and hopefullly losing the Campbell next weekend, I will call this a win.

Still hoping there's a chance maybe she will be caught in one of the inevitable Worldcon controversies. Guess that's my rainbow.

Say what you want, but the Hugo awards have always been an indicator for quality.

It's just that over the past decade, they've been an indicator for books to avoid, rather than to purchase.

Its rather terrifying how quick that transition happened... and how quickly that same cancer spread to all of popular culture.
 
Is it really that easy to get a job at a university these days? Especially in creative departments?
This varies across departments obviously, but universities are brands and they need big brand names. Tao Lin worked at some expensive liberal arts college for a few years and he's a fucking mess who I highly doubt is capable of coherent teaching (he can barely speak). In general I think it's either toil away for years in the system or find some cheap trick like a Hugo or internet fame to get you in.

(Although I doubt you could get tenure in this way. I think most academic departments require a certain amount of research publishing each year to stay on track to tenure. However I'm not familiar with creative departments, they're probably even more about politics and less about actual merit than more legitimate departments)
 
@Boston Brand can you pinpoint when the animosity towards Lindsay from the Hugo's crowd began? She got the nom for the Hobbit series back in 2019 (did not win), released her first terrible book in 2020 and got the Campbell nod on the strength of its, well, marketing. Was it only once she decided she was a proper writer, a Very Serious Author, that the claws came out? Jenny Nicholson also has a Hugo nom this year for Best Related Work and there's been very little said about it vs when Lindsay was nominated for the same category, it was a big deal because she was first.

"It was an honor just to be nominated" can be Lindsay's new drinking mantra.

ETA: Wiki-lies
Screenshot (1000).png

She's been under 9K paypigs for three months and out of the top 50 for longer than that. My autism doesn't extend to editing Wiki but that's an easy falsehood to factcheck.
Screenshot (1001).png
 
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@Boston Brand can you pinpoint when the animosity towards Lindsay from the Hugo's crowd began? She got the nom for the Hobbit series back in 2019 (did not win), released her first terrible book in 2020 and got the Campbell nod on the strength of its, well, marketing. Was it only once she decided she was a proper writer, a Very Serious Author, that the claws came out? Jenny Nicholson also has a Hugo nom this year for Best Related Work and there's been very little said about it vs when Lindsay was nominated for the same category, it was a big deal because she was first.

"It was an honor just to be nominated" can be Lindsay's new drinking mantra.

ETA: Wiki-lies
View attachment 2796906
She's been under 9K paypigs for three months and out of the top 50 for longer than that. My autism doesn't extend to editing Wiki but that's an easy falsehood to factcheck.
View attachment 2796907

If I had to pinpoint an exact moment? Probably the instant her book deal was announced. Though there was already some talk she bought her Hugo nomination previously, that talk exploded after the book deal. In that moment when she went from just "Hugo/SFWA adjacent" to "Aspiring Author competing for book sales and awards", and that was certainly when many turned.

The Hugo crowd has worked damned hard to get to the point where they're the biggest fish in their shrinking pond, they see Lindsay as an interloper who could potentially be a bigger fish that sucks up the oxygen in the room, given her social media following and public profile.

Doubtless a good chunk of it's envy as well - terminal decline or no, most would kill their mother to have Linday's Twitter followers, much less her Patreon numbers.

The part that baffles me is Lindsay WANTS to be part of that circle, she envys them as much as they do her. I know she craves legitimacy, but the Hugos have been a punchline for years at this point... 90 percent of the people who get nominated these days make less in a given year than she pulls off Patreon in a month or two.

I get what the SFWA crowd gets going after her, what does she get trying to appeal to them? It can't just be legitimacy, can it?
 
I get what the SFWA crowd gets going after her, what does she get trying to appeal to them? It can't just be legitimacy, can it?
Two reasons:

1. She grew up as a hick in the Appalachians, and wants to bury that under "legitimacy"

2. Her career started as the gender flipped version of the Nostalgia Critic, and she has been running from out under his shadow since then. Winning a "prestige" award would be an accomplishment that NC has not won, thereby finally making her "better" than him. (Hint: it won't)
 
The part that baffles me is Lindsay WANTS to be part of that circle, she envys them as much as they do her. I know she craves legitimacy, but the Hugos have been a punchline for years at this point... 90 percent of the people who get nominated these days make less in a given year than she pulls off Patreon in a month or two.
Much like Philosophy Tube who enjoys larping as a working class Geordie when he was raised fully upper middle class, she wants that starving artist cred without the actual starving. Part of her can't accept that she is in fact now one of those coastal media elites, the machine against which she ostensibly would rage were she truly a struggling artist. She wants both the benefits of her success and the poor lil hick victim cloak when it suits her.
Two reasons:

1. She grew up as a hick in the Appalachians, and wants to bury that under "legitimacy"

2. Her career started as the gender flipped version of the Nostalgia Critic, and she has been running from out under his shadow since then. Winning a "prestige" award would be an accomplishment that NC has not won, thereby finally making her "better" than him. (Hint: it won't)
I agree that she is still looking for legitimacy. First as an auteur, which didn't pan out, and then as an actress, which failed when she got scared off by the casting couch, then a founder/entrepreneur of sorts with Chez Apocalypse, which died with Blip but has restarted a bit with Nebula, and now an author. Success in legacy media as an artist and businesswoman is her golden ring forever just out of reach.

I don't know. She's an interesting case study in ambition and self-loathing.
 
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