The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[pinhpanther123]

 

[Chugger]

@Rapechu

In your entire post you did not list a single ghetto or camp in German occupied Russia where non-employable Jews weren't shot in large numbers and maintained their populations or grew into 1943. Can you do this?

re Transnistria, we went through this before, that area was censused as having max 130k Jews in 1941. So it was not some kind of resettlement hub for Jews throughout Europe, despite what the mainstream source says (article is unsourced so not much help to us)

re the Jews sent East in 1941. There was no concrete plan with what to do with them. Many were shot upon arrival (this is attested to by many sources, eg Bruns transcript which I've posted before) , but in general I would agree that them being sent there was not necessarily genocidal. In 1941 Germans still had hope of a quick victory. In 1942 that was over, with Germany locked into an attritional war with no hope of destroying the Russian forces in a single campaign or even two.

re the children of Holland. They were cared for by gentiles, placed in churches, orphanages, etc

re Slavuta: This location was in the middle of Ukraine, so people were able to flee before the Nazis got there and returned after liberation. The returning population was also from the "rural area" and in "other areas"

re Jews from Russia being sent to Polish ghettos, like Warsaw ghetto

in the case of the Warsaw ghetto following the uprising

They didn't kill most of the people (who were able bodied Jews, the unfit had all been deported). 42,000 sent for labor and 14,000 killed in fighting or destroyed in Treblinka II (this is noted in the Stroop document)

Again I ask that you provide a single camp or ghetto, in German controlled Russia, where non-employable Jews weren't shot in large numbers and maintained their populations or grew into 1943

And stick to one, so our conversation is more manageable. I'm not asking for a lot here, just a single location, with evidence.

If you're going to say they were mass transited back into Polish ghettos, this needs to be substantiated as well.

 

[Rapechu]

@Rapechu

In your entire post you did not list a single ghetto or camp in German occupied Russia where non-employable Jews weren't shot in large numbers and maintained their populations or grew into 1943. Can you do this?

Now you know for a fact that this is impossible, because all the surviving ghettoes were converted into (or were disbanded and sent into) labor camps by late 1943.

From the end of 1941, an increasing number of Jews escaped
from the ghettos to the growing Soviet partisan movement.
Many Soviet units only accepted Jews who arrived with weap-
ons, and some Jews were rebuffed or even murdered. Neverthe-
ess, the escape of up to 20,000 Jews, from the ghettos to the
partisans, forced the Germans to accelerate their ghetto liqui-
dations and increase security, converting remnant ghettos into
closely guarded labor camps. On September 8, 1942, Gene-
ralkommissar Kube instructed the Gebietskommissare that
the strong presence of Jews with the partisans could only be
countered by the accelerated cleansing of the countryside and
by confining needed Jewish workers under close guard

The Minsk ghetto existed until late 1943, it had more than doubled in size, but was eventually the center of a major rebellion, which doomed it.

re Transnistria, we went through this before, that area was censused as having max 130k Jews in 1941. So it was not some kind of resettlement hub for Jews throughout Europe, despite what the mainstream source says (article is unsourced so not much help to us)

View attachment 2805712

I know for a fact that Ananiev had a population of jews by the time of its liberation. So this data is completely wrong.

re the Jews sent East in 1941. There was no concrete plan with what to do with them. Many were shot upon arrival (this is attested to by many sources, eg Bruns transcript which I've posted before) , but in general I would agree that them being sent there was not necessarily genocidal. In 1941 Germans still had hope of a quick victory. In 1942 that was over, with Germany locked into an attritional war with no hope of destroying the Russian forces in a single campaign or even two.

Then at least we can agree that in 1941 there was a legitimate resettlement, you are only alleging that at some point, this had changed into a genocide.

re the children of Holland. They were cared for by gentiles, placed in churches, orphanages, etc

Yes, so they were spared by the Germans and placed in the care of people willing to look after them, just not exterminated

re Slavuta: This location was in the middle of Ukraine, so people were able to escape and returned after liberation. The returning population was also from the "rural area" and in "other areas"

View attachment 2805742

Or they simply survived and were not all executed as claimed.

There have been examples in the past posted of areas wrongfully claimed to have been cleared of jews. Here is another

After the June deportation Aktion, the German authori-
ties officially proclaimed Sucha to have been cleansed of Jews
( judenrein), but in fact around 300 Jews remained. All of these
Jews were moved into the old beer brewery, which became a
remnant ghetto or labor camp, under the direction of the Water
Management Office in Bielsko. The camp was known as the
“Browar,” the Polish word for brewery. It was surrounded by a
1.5-meter-high (5-feet-high) fence. The large groups of work-
ers assigned to labor tasks in the area were the only ones per-
mitted to leave the premises. The Judenrat chair, Erwin Klap-
holz, was put in charge of maintaining order. The camp was
linked to the Central Offi ce in Sosnowiec, and everyone had
to pay a poll tax. Among the 300 Jews in the Browar were 20
children aged 3 to 10. About 200 of the inhabitants were em-
ployed in flood control along the Skawa River at Sucha and
in the neighboring village of Skawce, about 8 kilometers (5
miles) away.5 [...] Jews from other places in Sucha, the presence of children, and
the continuity of the Judenrat’s authority all might argue in
favor of the status of a ghetto

So the Germans were quite liberal with their definition of "cleared of jews" and often left people behind.

re Jews from Russia being sent to Polish ghettos, like Warsaw ghetto

in the case of the Warsaw ghetto following the uprising

View attachment 2805751

They didn't kill most of the people (who were able bodied Jews, the unfit had all been deported). 42,000 sent for labor and 14,000 killed in fighting or destroyed in Treblinka II (this is noted in the Stroop document)

Typically, even reprisal attacks weren't total killings, almost always, there were people who were left alive and transferred.

Again I ask that you provide a single camp or ghetto, in German controlled Russia, where non-employable Jews weren't shot in large numbers and maintained their populations or grew into 1943

And stick to one, so our conversation is more manageable. I'm not asking for a lot here, just a single location, with evidence.

If you're going to say they were mass transited back into Polish ghettos, this needs to be substantiated as well.

Every single large ghetto where the Germans tried to consolidate jews (Minsk, Warsaw, Lodz, etc.) ended up having a major rebellion in 1943 or 1944.

So I guess if you want to discuss one, then talk about Minsk, which was intended to be a major center for jewish consolidation, but ended up being a rebellion breeding ground. It had a resistance movement active as early as 1941, with 10,000 jews escaping to join with partisans.

 

[Chugger]

@Rapechu

Where did I claim that areas cleared of Jews were 100% Jew free? Rather I spoke of ghettos that had become a "shadow of their former selves" mostly due to mass liquidations, but also disease, and to a lesser extent escapes

If you are using ghettos with 5-10% of their original population as your best examples of places where resettled Jews were kept, than we can surmise that a huge percentage of non-employable Jews in German custody died, with the rest being lucky enough to escape. That is, there was clear (though perhaps justifiable) genocidal policy.

Now you know for a fact that this is impossible, because all the surviving ghettoes were converted into (or were disbanded and sent into) labor camps by late 1943.

I appreciate this acknowledgement that there is no evidence of large numbers of non-employable Jews being hosted in German controlled ghettos or internment camps in Russia. Can you find evidence of labor camps there with a sizeable non-employable population? Or were the non-employable Jews (mostly children, elderly, Jews in terrible shape due to starvation and disease) suddenly all put to work?

So I guess if you want to discuss one, then talk about Minsk,

Why talk about Minsk? By Kube's admission by summer 1942.

"In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on July 28 and 29. Of these 6,500 were Russian Jews – mainly old men, women and children – and the rest Jews incapable of work, who were sent to Minsk in November of last year by order of the Fuehrer, mainly from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin"

It's not my purpose now to investigate if the stated reason for these Jews being shot (Partisan support) is valid, nevertheless Minsk is not helpful for revisionists in terms of "resettlement" due to the nearly nonexistent presence of Jews there in 1943

I know for a fact that Ananiev had a population of jews by the time of its liberation. So this data is completely wrong.

Yeah you've listed a few camps and ghettos where a significant portion of the non-employable Jews were maintained into 1943. None of them were in German controlled territory. Romania, unlike Germany, did not have a genocidal policy, and Transnistria is an interesting A B comparison here

Yes, so they were spared by the Germans and placed in the care of people willing to look after them, just not exterminated

Evidence of this? Rather than the Jewish children of Holland being illegally kept in orphanages, churches, or "adopted"

 

[Rapechu]

@Rapechu

Where did I claim that areas cleared of Jews were 100% Jew free? Rather I spoke of ghettos that had become a "shadow of their former selves" mostly due to mass liquidations, but also disease, and to a lesser extent escapes

If you are using ghettos with 5-10% of their original population as your best examples of places where resettled Jews were kept, than we can surmise that a huge percentage of non-employable Jews in German custody died, with the rest being lucky enough to escape. That is, there was clear (though perhaps justifiable) genocidal policy.

There's a large unaccounted-for portion of people. Now I'm not saying that 90% of the jews survived, but maybe 1/3 or so, at the very least, those who didn't violate martial law restrictions or fall victim to famine, disease and collateral damage.

In 1941, the Germans were sending jews to eastern Europe to be settled in (often unguarded and unwalled) ghettoes. This indicates that there was sincerity in the Germans attempts to establish an autonomous jewish district somewhere in the east. Germans also negotiated with jews for better accommodations and weighed legal cases involving jews.

In 1942, the jews were now being transferred to higher-security locations, either consolidated in guarded districts in cities like Minsk or being sent to camps. This is when the jews started shooting at Germans and the Germans started engaging in major reprisals. Generally what happened during a liquidation was that things went one of a few ways:
-No partisans, jews sent to camps
-No partisans, jews sent to major city
-No partisans, jews sent to another small ghetto
-Partisans shot at Germans, some portion of ghetto executed, rest sent away

In 1943-1944, the jewish population was now confined to remnant ghettoes, camps, and large city ghettoes. At this point, jews were not being sent east anymore, but actually were sent west, due to soviet advances.
-the major cities had revolts, and some portion of the ghettoes were executed, the rest sent away to camps
-the remaining small ghettoes were turned into or sent away to labor camps, with women and children present alongside the men

1945 is not noteworthy other than as a period when many of the camp inmates died, largely due to the breakdown of supply lines causing a critical famine within the camps.

I appreciate this acknowledgement that there is no evidence of large numbers of non-employable Jews being hosted in German controlled ghettos or internment camps in Russia. Can you find evidence of labor camps there with a sizeable non-employable population? Or were the non-employable Jews (mostly children, elderly, Jews in terrible shape due to starvation and disease) suddenly all put to work?

Ravensbruck is the most well-known example, which was a very large camp that housed jewish women and children until the end of the war. There were also women and children in Auschwitz, and just about most other major German camps. In fact, there were many deliveries at Auschwitz. Pregnant women can't do hard labor without miscarrying, so they must have been given light work, and obviously not been gassed on arrival, for this to be possible.

But you're talking outside of Germany/Poland, right? Well in 1944, that is where this division starts to break down because at this point, jews were being evacuated west, not east, and we see that eastern jews were sent into German and Polish concentration camps.

Siauliai ghetto existed with women and children until July 1944, where it was dissolved due to the soviet advances, with the inmates being sent to other concentration camps (not death camps).

"In the middle of July 1944, the remaining Jews in the Siauliai Ghetto were deported by train to the concentration camp of Stutthof, to labor camps across Poland, and to concentration camps in the vicinity of Dachau in Germany. One group was deported to a concentration camp in Riga. Dozens of ghetto residents succeeded in escaping from the ghetto or the labor camps, either before or during the deportation, whereupon they went into hiding or joined the partisans. Of the 3,000 Siauliai Jews transferred to labor camps, only 500 survived to be liberated. A number of Jews from Siauliai succeeded in escaping to the Soviet Union before the Nazi occupation began. They joined the Lithuanian Division of the Red Army (the 16th division). In the bombings which preceded the fall of Siauliai, the remains of the ghetto were burned."

Also, I will point out, that a very large number of these concentration camps ended up with the inmates "burnt alive" by the Germans. This is a rather stupid means of executing someone, very impractical. It is more likely that this is a way of saving face by the soviets, who don't want to admit that they bombed the camp (probably thinking it's a military installation) and killed the inmates. At least here they admit that the inmates who remained behind were killed by the soviets.

Kovno existed until 1944 and had women and children

On July 8, 1944, the Germans evacuated the camp, deporting most of the remaining Jews to the Dachau concentration camp in Germany or to the Stutthof camp, near Danzig, on the Baltic coast. Three weeks before the Soviet army arrived in Kovno, the Germans razed the ghetto to the ground with grenades and dynamite. As many as 2,000 people burned to death or were shot while trying to escape.

Stutthof and Dachau are not alleged by mainstream historians to be death camps, so most people deported from here survived. Also here is the stupid "burning" narrative again for those who remained behind. Hmmm...

Klooga concentration camp also exists until 1944, and had women and children up until liberation, and also ends with the inmates "burning alive". HMMMM....

You know that "burning" narrative doesn't fit the German's modus operandi, previously they either shot people or allegedly gassed them. Burning them alive seems to be completely unique to camps which were liberated by the soviets in 1944.

But anyways, this shows NON-WORKING jews being kept alive well into 1944, where as many as possible were evacuated west into large camps in Germany/Poland, while those who remained behind died in a very questionable manner which is likely collateral damage.

Why talk about Minsk? By Kube's admission by summer 1942.

"In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on July 28 and 29. Of these 6,500 were Russian Jews – mainly old men, women and children – and the rest Jews incapable of work, who were sent to Minsk in November of last year by order of the Fuehrer, mainly from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin"

It's not my purpose now to investigate if the stated reason for these Jews being shot (Partisan support) is valid, nevertheless Minsk is not helpful for revisionists in terms of "resettlement" due to the nearly nonexistent presence of Jews there in 1943

This is important to say why the ghetto was dissolved, because it provides context.

Yeah you've listed a few camps and ghettos where a significant portion of the non-employable Jews were maintained into 1943. None of them were in German controlled territory. Romania, unlike Germany, did not have a genocidal policy, and Transnistria is an interesting A B comparison here

Except that the Germans transferred jews into Transnistria via the Romanians.

Also, Siauliai, Kovno and Klooga also had non-employable eastern-jews until 1944.

Evidence of this? Rather than the Jewish children of Holland being illegally kept in orphanages, churches, or "adopted"

Red cross was allowed to operate in German-occupied territory.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

You'd think if the H-man managed the logistics of a coordinated and entirely secret genocide, using code words, back channels, and sub-par physical and telecoms infrastructure. He'd have been better prepared for the logistical challenges of something as simple as a war. Or at the very least, we wouldn't have as many goddamned heebs in the world.

 

[Rapechu]

Just found this

EHRI - Stutthof concentration camp

The European Holocaust Research Infrastructure Online Portal

portal.ehri-project.eu

Atrinkti duomenys iš Štutthofo muziejaus archyvo. I-11B-10​

• Selected Records from the Archive of the Stutthof Museum. I-11B-10
• Vilniaus Gaono žydų istorijos muziejus
• HE-Stutthof
• English, Lithuanian
• 1944
• 110 paper copies of the documents from the Archive of the Stutthof Museum. I-11B-10 and I-11C-3.
• Updated 7 years ago

[...] Lists of 1095 Kaunas Jews women and children transported to Stutthof concentration camp (19 July 1944). [...] List of 793 Kaunas Jews (mostly women) transported to Stutthof concentration camp (4 August 1944). [...]

Damn it feels good to be right. Chugger you mega nigger, you claimed that all the non-working eastern-jews in German custody were killed. Well what the hell is this then?

 

[Bonesjones]

Just found this

EHRI - Stutthof concentration camp

The European Holocaust Research Infrastructure Online Portal

portal.ehri-project.eu

Damn it feels good to be right. Chugger you mega nigger, you claimed that all the non-working eastern-jews in German custody were killed. Well what the hell is this then?

See what he actually means is the Soviets killed them all and blamed it on the Nazis.

 

[Chugger]

Just found this

EHRI - Stutthof concentration camp

The European Holocaust Research Infrastructure Online Portal

portal.ehri-project.eu

Damn it feels good to be right. Chugger you mega nigger, you claimed that all the non-working eastern-jews in German custody were killed. Well what the hell is this then?

Hey man we are just having some fun here. It's not a competition, but an excuse to an interrogate the historical record in a deeper way. If that makes me a nigger so be it.

Now I will address these points in time (currently reading about Kovno) but can you find where I said that they killed all or 100% of non-working Eastern Jews?

Rather I believe I asked for examples of places where non-working population wasn't heavily decimated (a shadow of its former self) or sent to sites where they weren't then heavily decimated or all killed. There are examples of non-working Jews surviving at ghettos, but in very small number (usually below 5%) of their pre war population. These were the exceptions though, so I'm pretty comfortable saying virtually all non-employable Jews in Nazi custody died. Maybe 1% or 30,000 survived.

In the West, there are places like the 'propagandalager' Theresienstadt where non-working Jews were maintained for a time. In Auschwitz there was the Theresienstadt family camp. Family camp ceased to exist in 1944 and later that year mass deportations to Auschwitz took place from Theresienstadt, reducing the population to 20% of its peak.

 

[Bonesjones]

Hey look Chugger says something, is wrong, tries to weasel out of it. "I never said that directly!" Yeah we know you'd never state anything factually or with any conviction because you are a jew nigger who has no backbone.

 

[Rapechu]

Hey man we are just having some fun here. It's not a competition, but an excuse to an interrogate the historical record in a deeper way. If that makes me a nigger so be it.

Don't take offense, I mean it in a light-hearted way.

Now I will address these points in time (currently reading about Kovno) but can you find where I said that they killed all or 100% of non-working Eastern Jews?

Rather I believe I asked for examples of places where non-working population wasn't heavily decimated (a shadow of its former self) or sent to sites where they weren't then heavily decimated or all killed. There are examples of non-working Jews surviving at ghettos, but in very small number (usually below 5%) of their pre war population. These were the exceptions though, so I'm pretty comfortable saying virtually all non-employable Jews in Nazi custody died. Maybe 1% or 30,000 survived.

In the West, there are places like the 'propagandalager' Theresienstadt where non-working Jews were maintained for a time. In Auschwitz there was the Theresienstadt family camp. Family camp ceased to exist in 1944 and later that year mass deportations to Auschwitz took place from Theresienstadt, reducing the population to 20% of its peak.

I'm just going to sit here flexing my muscles at how right I am, ooh, yeah, girls are all over me.

This is just some tiny little footnote I found lying in the dirt somewhere. I don't have people helping me, I have to go and track this stuff down with my own two hands. If I can find these things lying around, I am sure that there are thousands of obscure records out there, most of which were probably never digitized and are rotting away in some archive. But here I found the one smoking gun piece of evidence you were asking for, that completely deboonks the narrative that Germans inevitably gassed ost-juden non-workers.

Now maybe these were just the good-juden, the rare jews that Hitler talked about who turned over the communists, maybe they were the families of jewish collaborators or whatever, but here this one piece of evidence shows that there was a path through the war, for those who didn't affiliate themselves with partisans, thus the shootings I talked about earlier, weren't genocides, but rather just extremely harsh martial law police actions.

Found this little thing too btw

Transport of Białystok children - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This whole article is a big bag of what the fuck.

The Bratislava Working Group, an underground Jewish organization in Axis-aligned Slovakia, was at the time negotiating indirectly with Heinrich Himmler in hopes of ransoming the lives of all European Jews.[8] In early 1943, Swiss diplomat Anton Feldscher forwarded a British proposal to the German Foreign Office to allow 5,000 Jewish children to escape from the General Government to Palestine via Sweden.[9][10]

In early 1943, HEINRICH HIMMLER was secretly negotiating with the British, behind Hitler's back, to ransom jewish prisoners secretly out of German-controlled territory into British territory.

What in the absolute fuck.

On 17 August, the first day of the deportations, about 2,000 children were gathered near the train station waiting to be deported. The Germans separated them from their parents[6][18] and housed them, along with 400 children from two Jewish orphanages in Białystok, during the chaotic liquidation of the ghetto.[3]

Jewish orphanages in the ghetto. When the ghetto was liquidated, the children weren't killed on sight, but actually went through a rather interesting journey:

Upon reaching the disinfection rooms, some children panicked when their hair was cut and they were asked to undress, believing that they were about to be gassed; they were said to have shouted "Gas! Gas! Gas!" Older children tried to shield younger ones and they refused to undress and wash despite their poor clothing and lice. Although forbidden to speak with the children, the disinfection personnel were able to surreptitiously reassure them that there were no gas chambers at Theresienstadt, and the children calmed down when they noticed that water came out of the showers.[31][33][34] Despite the language barrier—most of the children spoke Polish or Yiddish[34]—they told the Theresienstadt prisoners about mass shootings in Białystok and the use of gas chambers for mass murder.[35] The incident, although not well understood by the other residents of Theresienstadt, was one of the few clues to the ultimate fate of those deported from the camp.[31]

The children were housed in the western barracks, separated from the rest of the camp by a barbed-wire fence. Czech gendarmes guarded the perimeter and kept the children strictly segregated from the rest of the camp.[15][36][37] Attempting to find out more about the rumors of gas chambers, Fredy Hirsch, a community leader at Theresienstadt, jumped over the fence to speak with the Białystok children but was caught. As punishment, he was deported to Auschwitz in September.[38] The children were not registered into the records of the camp.[31] The Białystok children were held in relatively good conditions and given extra food by the Germans. It was rumored that they were to be taken to Switzerland to be exchanged for German prisoners of war, although some suspected that it was a trick.[39] Fifty-three Czech volunteers, mostly doctors and nurses, were allowed to cross the barrier to attend to them. The volunteers, among them Ottla Kafka, were isolated with the Białystok children and not allowed any contact with the Theresienstadt prisoners.[15][35][40]

Germans actively transported jewish children to Theresienstadt (probably the nicest of the camps), where the children refused to shower because they'd been traumatized with rumors, which meant they remained infested with disease-causing lice. They were given extra food rations and treated for diseases by doctors and nurses.

I know, I know, "wikipedia", this isn't my main piece of evidence, I don't care about this story, just found it interesting.

 

[Rapechu]

Also note:

The children were not registered into the records of the camp.

The fuck kind of game is Himmler playing?

 

[Chugger]

So let's start by looking at Kovno(Kaunus) ghetto to see if there is evidence that a sizeable non-working Jewish population was maintained there

from

https://www.ushmm.org/online/camps-ghettos-download/USHMM_Vol%202_PartB.pdf

pg 1066

It was seized in two days so most Jews didn't have a chance to escape. The city was immediately subject to SS incited pogroms , which killed a certain percentage of the population

A ghetto consisting of 29,000 people was created in Slabodka, an area largely cleared during the pogroms.

Here further reductions were made

The Jager report confirms how many Jews were left, note how Jager describes the situation:

So the work Jews and their families gained protection from the Wehrmacht, a theme which has popped up for us before. Nevertheless we can see a reduction in the ghetto's population by 50%, largely unfit for work. Therefore maybe 2/3s of the unfit Jews in Kovno have been killed already.

Things were quiet thenceforth until 1943, with the Kovno Jews under continued protection by the army. Around this time Himmler's order to convert ghettos into labor camps commenced. What happened to the Jews unfit for work here?

Now we turn to page 848 "Kauen main camp"

We see here the non-working population is 6,000, or 20% of the original ghetto population, which confirms my earlier calculation. If we take into account Jews killed during the pogroms, this number is even lower. So at this point we can say maybe 1/4, or 1/3 of the original unfit population is alive, and in the coming months most are deported to Auschwitz with some deported to Stutthoff. btw this is not "lying in the dirt" in footnotes but expressed fully in the summary article by USHMM

Now Auschwitz is a problem, because other than the Theresienstadt Family Camp--which was fully liquidated in the middle of 1944, and furthermore only took inmates from Theresienstadt-- there is no evidence of Jewish children or unfit Jews being kept there (employed Jews recovering in hospitals don't count)

Stutthoff is also a problem because there's no evidence of unfit being accomodated there either. How do I know that? Mattogno and Graf have a book about Stutthoff, which was basically the only dedicated book I could find about it, and through all their research of the camp they weren't able to find evidence of this. They reiterate your argument, but according to all records, the children deported there were then sent further down to Auschwitz

Map shows that this wasn't a great detour

So let me ask you, is this your best piece evidence, really the long awaited "smoking gun"? BTW, my point was not--hey if you find one piece of evidence, you win and revisionism is proven, but rather to make a point of comparison to the evidence for the Holocaust, which I contended was tens of thousands of times better. I'll give you credit for straying off the beaten path of metapedia and the like, though other revisionists have made your same argument-- which is what

In sum, you found evidence of a few thousand or perhaps 1/3 of the non-working population of Kovno ghetto surviving into 1944 and then most being deported to a place where there is no record of such Jews being maintained, and is in fact the most infamous of all Nazi extermination camps.

At best, if a situation like Kovno could be extrapolated across the whole of the east (which it can't), you showed 1/3 of the non-working Jews in Nazi hands possibly(!) survived, with almost all the rest rest having been killed by bullets

Is this more of a smoking gun than the aforementioned Jager report, or perhaps the Stahlecker report? which talks about how the Germans tried to incite pogroms without being detected

(not to mention any of my thirty pieces of "interesting" Holocaust evidence, eg the Just Memo that states 97,000 killed with gas vans)

StahleckerReport

 

[Chugger]

The fuck kind of game is Himmler playing?

Himmler was negotiating transport of some Jewish children to Palestine in exchange for POWs being released. The Mufti shot it down and so the children were sent to Auschwitz where they "disappeared". BTW, they did end up showering in the 'propagandalager' Theresienstadt , according to your source

 

[Chugger]

I was doing some digging on the subject of the Germans possibly deporting hundreds of thousands of Jews into Romania, and it turns out not only is there no evidence of this, documents show the opposite--and more

from Longerich's "Holocaust" book

unfit Romanian Jews being sent to Lublin in Poland to receive "Special treatment"? That's hundreds of miles northwest

HC blog sheds some light here https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/01/german-extermination-planning-for.html

 

[Bonesjones]

Hey look Chugger quotes a book by a PhD of history in Munich, I'm sure what he says is completely accurate and valuable.

Also he again quotes a shitty blog that specifically links the German plans to ship jews east, is unable to move them further because of the war, then shows they used them for labor as close to the front lines as possible (directly quoting them being put into forest labor camps).

Funny how it takes 2 minutes of casual browsing to poke holes in your ridiculous narrative once you get past all the editorial work done by the posters.

 

[Chugger]

Also he again quotes a shitty blog that specifically links the German plans to ship jews east, is unable to move them further because of the war, then shows they used them for labor as close to the front lines as possible (directly quoting them being put into forest labor camps).

"forest labor camps"--it seems like you're referring to this passage from a German document:

"According to information today from director General Lecca, 110,000 Jews are being evacuated from Bukovina and Bessarabia into two forests in the Bug River Area. As far as he could learn, this action is based upon an order issued by Marshal Antonescu. Purpose of the action is the liquidation of these Jews"

Is that right? Liquidation means . . . putting to work?

 

[Bonesjones]

"forest labor camps"--it seems like you're referring to this passage from a German document:



Is that right? Liquidation means . . . putting to work?

Yes, holocaust "scholars" endlessly editorialize about what words and phrases mean with no physical evidence to back it up. So when someone says liquidate, they clearly mean remove from ghettos and holding camps into others. And not to immediately kill and destroy all remains of because you again can't prove they did either. You just take quotes out of context and say they mean other things.

You are a one trick pony whose trick has been endlessly debunked and refuted, yet you just circle around again and again.

So Post Hitler's direct orders or an autopsy of someone killed by gassing.

You can't because nothing you say happened in the terms you describe them in.

 

[Chugger]

So when someone says liquidate, they clearly mean remove from ghettos and holding camps into others

Can you post a single example where this meaning is clear? (when referring to human beings as in the above passage)

I can give you a thousand examples where liquidation of human beings unmistakably means killing

 

[Bonesjones]

Can you post a single example where this meaning is clear? (when referring to human beings as in the above passage)

I can give you a thousand examples where liquidation of human beings unmistakably refers to killing

1. the process of liquidating a business.

Weird that the dictionary puts this definition first. Almost like it's the one people use to refer to the process of taking a business or camp and distributing its constituent parts elsewhere.

If you are gonna act like a shifty jew atleast be a good one.