Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Incels it’s never going to get better. Abandon hope. Sign up as an organ donor and then just end it all in a way that won’t spoil any useful organs.

The closest you’ll ever get to being with a woman is having parts of you transplanted in to better men.

Whether "it" is going to get better depends what "it" is. If you've washed out with women and you don't think it's going to change, well, you may be right. Life isn't fair and all we can do is play the hand we're dealt. But there's more to life than women.

Take up a new hobby. Learn a new skill. Fix or upgrade something around your house. Learn to cook something new. Explore world religions. Go for a promotion at work. Meet males who might become friends. Go play a drop in session of DND or something at your local game store.

If you've already decided you're never going to succeed with women, then the worst, most pointless thing you can do is to sit around stewing in it. Learn to find happiness in other things. It may not be the exact life you imagined or hoped for, but it'll be better than what you've got today.

 

[Space Cooter]

Whether "it" is going to get better depends what "it" is. If you've washed out with women and you don't think it's going to change, well, you may be right. Life isn't fair and all we can do is play the hand we're dealt. But there's more to life than women.

Take up a new hobby. Learn a new skill. Fix or upgrade something around your house. Learn to cook something new. Explore world religions. Go for a promotion at work. Meet males who might become friends. Go play a drop in session of DND or something at your local game store.

If you've already decided you're never going to succeed with women, then the worst, most pointless thing you can do is to sit around stewing in it. Learn to find happiness in other things. It may not be the exact life you imagined or hoped for, but it'll be better than what you've got today.

Or they can just end it all. Dead men can’t be cucked by chad.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Manosphere spergs have a point that the dating market is skewed in favor of women; what they fail to appreciate is that a lot of this is to blame on men themselves, and the standards they set for women.

The reason women generally find it easier to find a date than men is because they usually have standards beyond "he looks half-decent and he's interested"; they also want someone who's interesting to be around, has hobbies, is of good character, can provide for themselves, and shares some of their interests/values.

If more guys actually had standards like this for women, and weren't simply willing to settle for the first chick who was willing to have sex with them, then not only would the dating scene be a lot more equitable between the sexes, but they'd arguably make themselves more attractive to the opposite sex too, since having standards generally gives you the incentive to live up to them yourself.

 

[Never Scored]

Manosphere spergs have a point that the dating market is skewed in favor of women; what they fail to appreciate is that a lot of this is to blame on men themselves, and the standards they set for women.

The reason women generally find it easier to find a date than men is because they usually have standards beyond "he looks half-decent and he's interested"; they also want someone who's interesting to be around, has hobbies, is of good character, can provide for themselves, and shares some of their interests/values.

If more guys actually had standards like this for women, and weren't simply willing to settle for the first chick who was willing to have sex with them, then not only would the dating scene be a lot more equitable between the sexes, but they'd arguably make themselves more attractive to the opposite sex too, since having standards generally gives you the incentive to live up to them yourself.

I think a lot of incels actually have the opposite issue and are seemingly holding out for everyone gets a cheerleader day.

 

[DavidS877]

I think a lot of incels actually have the opposite issue and are seemingly holding out for everyone gets a cheerleader day.

It doesn't have to be a cheerleader, any reasonably fit, employed, not tattooed, not pierced women would be fine. Which, these days is unlikely.

 

[RMQualtrough]

Give up. Embrace comfiness.

 

[Never Scored]

It doesn't have to be a cheerleader, any reasonably fit, employed, not tattooed, not pierced women would be fine. Which, these days is unlikely.

If a woman was perfect in literally every way, but she had a god-awful tattoo sleeve, would you date her?

 

[Sandraker]

I've found it's hard to make new guy friends as I have standards. Most people like me though but I feel nothing for most of them.

1. No fats
2. Cannot be triggered easily, no white knights
3. I have female model friends, in university the normal guys would try to sabotage my relationships with girls I had no interest in fucking to try to improve their chances with a girl who had no interest in them. Not those guys.
4. Good friend, supportive, reliable and so on
5. Interesting and somewhat intelligent. I don't want to hear how whatever character that beat them in a video game is cheating and should be nerfed.

It is pretty much a chore to find decent people without having some sort of of compromise depending on what your interests are.

That's also a core problem is that the standard social norm for a large portion of guys struggling with women is they're not willing to invest into other things outside of the rampant consumerism hobbies they put a bit too much time into. While it is possible and rare to find a well adjust adult who can separate their lifestyles, the majority of these guys wear their lives on their sleeve (literally depending on their wardrobe) and you normally get exactly what you expect from a guy with a waifu t-shirt.

Having standards for yourself and other people is important, but so many guys aren't willing to get their feet wet with something that'll ultimately be beneficial down the line for the wide eyed idealism that many unfortunately fall into.

Seen chemical engineers and doctors come to anime conventions before and its always nice to see some guys know how to flip in between rather than completely integrate it into their day to day life and expect people to be on board

 

[DavidS877]

If a woman was perfect in literally every way, but she had a god-awful tattoo sleeve, would you date her?

Nope. Even I have standards, low that they may be.

 

[Never Scored]

Nope. Even I have standards, low that they may be.

This is basically what I was talking about with the cheerleader comment. We're talking about a girl who is literally perfect in every way except she has some shitty tattoos. Then you describe yourself as having low standards. That's not having standards, that's being arbitrary.

 

[DavidS877]

This is basically what I was talking about with the cheerleader comment. We're talking about a girl who is literally perfect in every way except she has some shitty tattoos. Then you describe yourself as having low standards. That's not having standards, that's being arbitrary.

This sounds similar to the troon agenda. "Well, what if she were perfect in every way but she had a dick." "Now you're just being arbitrary."

Luckily I'm not a lesbian and they don't care about straight guys.

 

[Never Scored]

This sounds similar to the troon agenda. "Well, what if she were perfect in every way but she had a dick." "Now you're just being arbitrary."

Luckily I'm not a lesbian and they don't care about straight guys.

If you think not wanting to date the perfect girl because she has a bad tattoo is comparable to not wanting to date a man dressed as a woman you are autistic and gay. This is a false equilivency and the fact that you're trying to argue it says more about you than it does anyone else.

 

[Ser Prize]

Manosphere spergs have a point that the dating market is skewed in favor of women; what they fail to appreciate is that a lot of this is to blame on men themselves, and the standards they set for women.

The reason women generally find it easier to find a date than men is because they usually have standards beyond "he looks half-decent and he's interested"; they also want someone who's interesting to be around, has hobbies, is of good character, can provide for themselves, and shares some of their interests/values.

If more guys actually had standards like this for women, and weren't simply willing to settle for the first chick who was willing to have sex with them, then not only would the dating scene be a lot more equitable between the sexes, but they'd arguably make themselves more attractive to the opposite sex too, since having standards generally gives you the incentive to live up to them yourself.

I'd argue it's an inherent problem created by the internet and social media, actually.

Suddenly you're not competing with all the lads in your class for a date with Suzy. Now you're competing with every dude in the state, sometimes even country. And if you do get lucky and date her then you'd best watch your back; now all those men are there in case you do anything wrong whatsoever.

 

[Protistology]

I'd argue it's an inherent problem created by the internet and social media, actually.

Suddenly you're not competing with all the lads in your class for a date with Suzy. Now you're competing with every dude in the state, sometimes even country. And if you do get lucky and date her then you'd best watch your back; now all those men are there in case you do anything wrong whatsoever.

And following the Paredo Principle, you're not competing against the top 20% of your class or school but the top 20% of the city.

 

[Ser Prize]

And following the Paredo Principle, you're not competing against the top 20% of your class or school but the top 20% of the city.

It's not even city now. It's top 20% of your state/province.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

I'd argue it's an inherent problem created by the internet and social media, actually.

Suddenly you're not competing with all the lads in your class for a date with Suzy. Now you're competing with every dude in the state, sometimes even country. And if you do get lucky and date her then you'd best watch your back; now all those men are there in case you do anything wrong whatsoever.

Jesus christ, man. Imagine actually believing this. If you legitimately think that this is a sane view of reality then it's no wonder you're so demoralized about the state of modern dating.

Suddenly you're not competing with all the lads in your class for a date with Suzy. Now you're competing with every dude in the state, sometimes even country.

This is a loser mindset. Right out of the gate you're admitting that you think you've only got a chance in hell if you artificially limit her choices through bullshit like logistics. That there's no way that she'd ever like you because she thinks you are interesting and worth getting to know, and that she'd choose to date you because she likes you, and that she'd choose to stay with you because she wants to be in a relationship with you. No, of course not. You've convinced yourself that you're only winning as a consolation prize: she has to settle for you because it's geographically-infeasible that she'd ever meet some hypothetical better partner.

Have a little more confidence in yourself man. Look around you: there's people meeting and coupling up everywhere you look. They're not psyching themselves out with hypotheticals. If they can do it, you can too. In fact, you will. Because pretty much everybody does, and you're just not important enough to be a statistical anomaly.

And if you do get lucky and date her then you'd best watch your back; now all those men are there in case you do anything wrong whatsoever.

This is also a loser mindset. It's such a hilariously loser mindset that I don't even know how you haven't talked yourself out of dating entirely if you honestly believe this. Imagine having to constantly be on guard, always thinking that one wrong move and your girlfriend fucks off into the arms of some waiting simp. Imagine thinking that being in a relationship is this eternal tightrope-walk where you're constantly worried that today's the day she decides she doesn't like you anymore over some minor slight. That sounds exhausting as hell.

Good news for you, though: it's bullshit. We've all seen enough people stuck in shitty relationships, and enough chicks defending staying with absolutely worthless boyfriends/husbands (not even in the 'dark triad' sense, but in the 'why are you still with this creepy balding unemployed fatass who drinks all the time and keeps trying to sleep with your sister' sense). There's enough chicks that stay with all sorts of abominable faggots—despite her loved ones in her life literally scheming and trying to convince her to jettison the dead-weight because she "can do better" and they're "sick of seeing her unhappy"—that hypergamy can't possibly be the norm. Again, if these actual pieces of shit can manage to get some chick head-over-heels for them (often to her own detriment and the detriment of others involved in her life), then you have nothing to fear.

The world's not quite as bleak as you think it is. You'll be fine, lad.

 

[Ser Prize]

Jesus christ, man. Imagine actually believing this. If you legitimately think that this is a sane view of reality then it's no wonder you're so demoralized about the state of modern dating.


This is a loser mindset. Right out of the gate you're admitting that you think you've only got a chance in hell if you artificially limit her choices through bullshit like logistics. That there's no way that she'd ever like you because she thinks you are interesting and worth getting to know, and that she'd choose to date you because she likes you, and that she'd choose to stay with you because she wants to be in a relationship with you. No, of course not. You've convinced yourself that you're only winning as a consolation prize: she has to settle for you because it's geographically-infeasible that she'd ever meet some hypothetical better partner.

Have a little more confidence in yourself man. Look around you: there's people meeting and coupling up everywhere you look. They're not psyching themselves out with hypotheticals. If they can do it, you can too. In fact, you will. Because pretty much everybody does, and you're just not important enough to be a statistical anomaly.


This is also a loser mindset. It's such a hilariously loser mindset that I don't even know how you haven't talked yourself out of dating entirely if you honestly believe this. Imagine having to constantly be on guard, always thinking that one wrong move and your girlfriend fucks off into the arms of some waiting simp. Imagine thinking that being in a relationship is this eternal tightrope-walk where you're constantly worried that today's the day she decides she doesn't like you anymore over some minor slight. That sounds exhausting as hell.

Good news for you, though: it's bullshit. We've all seen enough people stuck in shitty relationships, and enough chicks defending staying with absolutely worthless boyfriends/husbands (not even in the 'dark triad' sense, but in the 'why are you still with this creepy balding unemployed fatass who drinks all the time and keeps trying to sleep with your sister' sense). There's enough chicks that stay with all sorts of abominable faggots—despite her loved ones in her life literally scheming and trying to convince her to jettison the dead-weight because she "can do better" and they're "sick of seeing her unhappy"—that hypergamy can't possibly be the norm. Again, if these actual pieces of shit can manage to get some chick head-over-heels for them (often to her own detriment and the detriment of others involved in her life), then you have nothing to fear.

The world's not quite as bleak as you think it is. You'll be fine, lad.

While I appreciate your attempts to bolster confidence I think you may be a bit naive about all of this. While I personally believe I'm a good person I can acknowledge that dating is, by design, a competition. I'd like to live in a world where all that stuff about "she likes you for you" is true, but from my lived experiences it generally isn't. Not that it always isn't, just that it isn't generally.

When dating people think about variables, compare you to their other options, yes? Then how is presenting people with endlessly more options not making things harder? Hell, in my own personal life most people I know didn't even meet their SO in the same goddamn town.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Nope. Even I have standards, low that they may be.

Add "not crazy" to your list. Do not stick your dick into crazy. Healthy/employed/untatted only help lower the chances of batshit, not eliminate it. They look just like anyone else, I mean it. All you need to do is look at a mommybloggers or church groups to find examples.

Also Never Scored is right lol. "She's a charming engaging woman who likes hobbies I like and makes tasteless jokes like me, and she has a stable career and looks out for her future, but her butterfly tattoo she got in honor of her grandma passing along with the names of her parents underneath is too fucking ugly and gay for me lol dumped."
You can look for women who align with your values and use those visusl factors as a visual shortcut to find them, but make sure to engage with conversation before saying "aww shit she a degenerate" or whatever.


@Ser Prize Make sure to keep a balanced look at it. See it as competition and understand you have value regardless. It's ok to say dating is tough and see it as such as long as you don't give up after your first few attempts & don't base your self worth around it (I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir of course).

I'd also say the percentage of people you compete with depends on interest, both hobby and lifestylewise. A woman who wants a vegan boyfriend is going to have a more competitive dating pool for herself than a woman who doesn't mind any food type. We can factor shit in and get some good guesses, but at the end of the day they're not always guarantees since humans are not easily quantified like that. That's truly what makes dating an unreliable bitch: humans interacting with humans is always a crapshoot. Focus on a few prospects then one prospect at a time and make sure not to tard rage if your best guy friend gets a nice chick before you, that's where competitive mindsets bite you (your bro being happy with a chick [who isn't demanding or a bitch] is better than your bro being lonely, support your friends today).

 

[TheShedCollector]

Just checking in to see if the desperate loneliness and helplessness any of you spergs feel due to your crippling failures to become men has caused any of you to put a gun in your mouth yet.

 

[Kujo Jotaro]

If you think not wanting to date the perfect girl because she has a bad tattoo is comparable to not wanting to date a man dressed as a woman you are autistic and gay. This is a false equilivency and the fact that you're trying to argue it says more about you than it does anyone else.

Can't a guy just find tattooed women unattractive? Because I sure as fuck do, the only thing that ranks higher as a turn off for me is septum piercings. Shit screams of bad impulsive decision making in an effort to fit in.

Literally this thread.
"Men have no standards, raise your standards as a collective mass and women will be easier to get!"(bunch of updoots)

2 posts later
"Fuck you incel your not allowed to reject a woman based on some arbitrary standards IF SHE'S LITERALLY PERFECT!!!!!!!!!". (Bunch of updoots).

No one will ever get any help from this whiplash of a thread, literally contradictory advice every other post by people who apparently believe themselves to be relationship/dating savants, or at least knowledgable on the topic.