TGWTG Nostalgia Chick / Lindsay Ellis / TheDudette - aka Hotdogs in face girl

Cline himself really personifies what a straight white male nerd was in the 2000s and RPO, coming out in 2011, was like a capstone on that era of nerd culture before things started changing in 2012.

All of which is one of the Great Satans that Woke seeks to destroy.
Wasn't the release of RPO (the book) coinciding with the time hatred of The Big Bang Theory on the Internet was at its peak?
I think that everyone thought Cline was basically doing a gimmick book, that the nerd stuff was a big act he was doing, a critique of shallow nerd culture and TV Tropes mindset, and so praised it under that assumption. Then I think as people realized that Cline is just a big mega nerd manchild consoomer, it suddenly wasn't an amazing work of deliberate 1980s nerd perspective or whatever but just a manchild going MEMBER THIS? over and over again.
Who ever said the thing was a critique? I'm pretty sure if it was meant to be an analysis, someone would be taking shots at the OASIS and the world it creates, and the only thing that the villains wanted to do was monetize the thing.
 
Ready Player One had a very strange history. There was a podcast that summed up the reception of the book as "mass hysteria" because it was lauded and acclaimed despite very obviously not being very good. I think that everyone thought Cline was basically doing a gimmick book, that the nerd stuff was a big act he was doing, a critique of shallow nerd culture and TV Tropes mindset, and so praised it under that assumption. Then I think as people realized that Cline is just a big mega nerd manchild consoomer, it suddenly wasn't an amazing work of deliberate 1980s nerd perspective or whatever but just a manchild going MEMBER THIS? over and over again.
RPO was astonishingly bad when I read it. It wasn't like an average crap thing like that Netflix show based on Avatar or High Guardian Spice, I unironically think both of those shows are better than RPO will ever be. Honestly, I wonder how many people liked the book vs the mount of people just riding the wave.
 
Ready Player One had a very strange history. There was a podcast that summed up the reception of the book as "mass hysteria" because it was lauded and acclaimed despite very obviously not being very good. I think that everyone thought Cline was basically doing a gimmick book, that the nerd stuff was a big act he was doing, a critique of shallow nerd culture and TV Tropes mindset, and so praised it under that assumption. Then I think as people realized that Cline is just a big mega nerd manchild consoomer, it suddenly wasn't an amazing work of deliberate 1980s nerd perspective or whatever but just a manchild going MEMBER THIS? over and over again.
A decade ago memberries was still a novelty, you've got to remember how shitty pop culture was even back then, that was the age of Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey, other YA crap, "hey, remember the 80s?" was a lot more charming in the face of all that.

I think the novel is interesting when looked at from the perspective of it being, like a lot of sci fi is, simply a metaphor for the time in which it was written, it was the post 9/11 era, things were kind of frightening and people used new technology (the internet) to wax nostalgic and try to escape from all the woes of the then present day.

Cline was part of the Austin scene which included AICN founder Harry Knowles, which is how I first heard about it from reading that site.

It's easy to look back on this negatively today, but you've got to try to remember what the vibe was, there was a genuine effort among nerds to try to raise the bar of pop culture which had gotten really fucking stupid with things like Michael Bay's Transformers movies or again, Twilight, there was an earnest desire to try to bring back some of the old magic that 70s and 80s pop culture had.

It didn't work out, but RPO got you imagining the possibilities.

Wasn't the release of RPO (the book) coinciding with the time hatred of The Big Bang Theory on the Internet was at its peak?
I don't really remember Big Bang Theory bashing being at it's peak in 2011, that came maybe a few years later?

Who ever said the thing was a critique? I'm pretty sure if it was meant to be an analysis, someone would be taking shots at the OASIS and the world it creates, and the only thing that the villains wanted to do was monetize the thing.
It's mild, but there are moments in which you're supposed to question whether everyone ignoring the real world in favor of OASIS is really a good thing.

And the ending has a bit of a bittersweet vibe, the virtual world is saved, but what about the real world?
 
A decade ago memberries was still a novelty, you've got to remember how shitty pop culture was even back then, that was the age of Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey, other YA crap, "hey, remember the 80s?" was a lot more charming in the face of all that.

I think the novel is interesting when looked at from the perspective of it being, like a lot of sci fi is, simply a metaphor for the time in which it was written, it was the post 9/11 era, things were kind of frightening and people used new technology (the internet) to wax nostalgic and try to escape from all the woes of the then present day.



It's easy to look back on this negatively today, but you've got to try to remember what the vibe was, there was a genuine effort among nerds to try to raise the bar of pop culture which had gotten really fucking stupid with things like Michael Bay's Transformers movies or again, Twilight, there was an earnest desire to try to bring back some of the old magic that 70s and 80s pop culture had.

It didn't work out, but RPO got you imagining the possibilities.
You're not wrong, but couldn't that "try to rethink about good pop culture from decades ago" be something that could apply to any era? Some eras you may have to dig, but nostalgia googles and filters exist for a reason. And it can be easy to do something more than "hey, remember this?" which I think the book did sometimes, like one part had Wade have to recite a film line for line in order to get out of the puzzle.
I don't really remember Big Bang Theory bashing being at it's peak in 2011, that came maybe a few years later?
I just remember that show being at the heart of a lot of people saying that "nerd culture" needed better representatives.
It's mild, but there are moments in which you're supposed to question whether everyone ignoring the real world in favor of OASIS is really a good thing.

And the ending has a bit of a bittersweet vibe, the virtual world is saved, but what about the real world?
I do remember Wade and his crew making it so that the OASIS would be offline some days and people would be forced to go outside at the end. The sequel...I'm not so sure about what they did with that aspect.
 
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A decade ago memberries was still a novelty, you've got to remember how shitty pop culture was even back then, that was the age of Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey, other YA crap, "hey, remember the 80s?" was a lot more charming in the face of all that.
But if I'm looking for an 80s novel about jacking into cyberspace, why not just read Neuromancer again?
 
I love Todd’s stuff because I love music. He has a steady output of videos that are well researched and funny. I know he isn’t for everyone but his videos make my day and I rewatch them a lot. He’s not as political in his videos as he could be which I appreciate.
Ill be forever thankful to Todd for introducing me to the best hip hop verse of all time





...Grocery bag
 
You're not wrong, but couldn't that "try to rethink about good pop culture from decades ago" be something that could apply to any era? Some eras you may have to dig, but nostalgia googles and filters exist for a reason. And it can be easy to do something more than "hey, remember this?" which I think the book did sometimes, like one part had Wade have to recite a film line for line in order to get out of the puzzle.
You could do that for any era, but the guys who were writing this stuff at the time grew up in the 80s and so had nostalgia for that particular decade. They were at the right age to have gotten onto the early internet, gotten involved in - or even been founding members of - various nerd communities that had their roots in 80s and 90s usenet culture, and used those spaces to stave off having to grow up and become boring, respectable adults. A lot of those guys wound up in IT and the early 2010s were around the time they were starting to hit their stride in their careers, so they had shitloads of money to burn on chasing the high of childhood nostalgia. They're not really looking for sophistication, they just want the warm and fuzzies that come from seeing a thing they liked again.

The 80s were also, for my money, probably the last decade that really did things that were different and not just recycled. The 90s had a lot of stuff that was just the 80s but with attitude or that was a continuation of a trend that started in the 80s. The 2000s were the shitty corporate mass-produced version of the 90s. Everything since then has just been cultural navel-gazing.
 
The 80s were also, for my money, probably the last decade that really did things that were different and not just recycled. The 90s had a lot of stuff that was just the 80s but with attitude or that was a continuation of a trend that started in the 80s. The 2000s were the shitty corporate mass-produced version of the 90s. Everything since then has just been cultural navel-gazing.

Holy Shit, that is actually true. You don't realize how bad its been until its been laid out like that so concisely.
 
Holy Shit, that is actually true. You don't realize how bad its been until its been laid out like that so concisely.
the 80s were the point where the boomers were reaching middle age and stopped looking for novelty. i'm not trying to blame this on boomers but the entire concept of 'pop culture' is literally a creation of the postmodern art movement ('pop art' with pollock and warhol) that was basically just a CIA front to rope the rebellious youth of the 60s into a more manageable form by funneling into the traditional media complex. not to say that each generational cohort doesn't have a bunch of trends that get marketed to, but there's an obvious pedigree you can follow with 'pop culture' and how it really only existed as a projected cultural ideal for people to follow in the shadow of the baby boomers. the machine started to break down in the 80s and nobody applied any oil to it.

by the 80s Gen X was reaching adulthood and what 'pop culture' seems to think influenced gen x has very little to do with what any of them say. sure, they all saw predator, but there isn't the level of zeal that boomers had about the beatles and all in the family. there's been plenty of good shit since the 80s, but almost none of it has come out of the traditional media complex. people still plugged into it complain about how transformers and marvel movies aren't kubrick films but those movies came out in like, what, 2009? 2012? by like 1990 anyone who wanted any substance was looking for it in other places. just because it had petered along on novelty and regurgitating previous trends doesn't mean it wasn't dying a slow death. everyone can see the tombstone being chiseled for it now, but it literally did not shift perspective at all for 35 years because they were following a formula that worked on their biggest demographic base.

it still engaged enough people to kind of sputter along for that time but there's a reason social media completely buttfucked traditional media, they had entrenched themselves with a very boomer way of thinking that wasn't capable of surviving a generational baton pass. they don't even know what the fuck to do with gen z and they're almost reaching middle age themselves, that means it literally failed to capture the attention of their parents.
 
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If the Enterprise flew to the world of Ready Player One Captain Kirk would burn OASIS to the ground to force the population to deal with real life. And he'd be right to do it.

Funny, this is almost the plot of one of the few Trek novels pulps tie ins cash ins I read.

 
Who gave Lindsay back the account access so she could sadpost?
LE_sadposting_12272021.png
 
So this may be a stupid question, but why do they hate him? I haven't heard him saying much anything controversial.
See below:
Because he's a straight white man, and they're not only mad that his books sold like crazy, but RPO got turned into a movie directed by Steven Spielberg.

Because he was the kind of smash success that modern spec fiction very much would like to stop happening: a straight white male who wrote something that appeals to largely other straight white males, and not only did he sell a million copies, but got a movie adaptation from Steven Spielberg.

Its the same reason they hate Andy Weir, only Weir is also more talented, and to cement his status as a devil to the in crowd, was one of the authors who proved the viability of self publishing, and ignores the usual avenues where the wokies have power, ie, Twitter and the Hugos.

I'm curious as to how much she could have gotten as an advance. I'm ignorant of the publishing industry, but her negotiating a $100k advance seem like a bit much. Unless that's for the full trilogy. And even then it seems like a bit much.

Keep in mind, Patrick Tomlinson claims to have gotten a $100k three book contract. And I've seen enough stupid contracts given out over the years that he may well be telling the truth.

The bean counters probably took one look at Lindsay's Twitter and YouTube numbers, and offered a steep contract where they will NEVER see a return.

It's possible she took a smaller contract, but I very much doubt it, given how fast Axiom's End made the transition from NYT Bestseller list to clearance bins signals that the publisher is DESPERATE to move units and make back some money.

Not when they’re wowed by her Twitter follower count and her Patreon performance. If her simps fork over money every month, surely they would buy her shitty book, right? Seems like a common mistake made over the last decade to assume social media presence would correlate to potential sales. Many such cases, as Trump would say.

Yup. Which is why it's very interesting one of the people in that Times article bemoaning offering every idiot with a social media following a book deal is the head of St. Martin's Press... Lindsay's publisher.

Understandable, since her life is now in a downward spiral.

She got major backlash from her Twitter cancellation and her response video that torpedoed her public image

Her second book is bombing hard.

Her PBS job is about to be handed off to Princess Weekes, who you just know secretly hate each other.

Her Patreon is atrophying.

Cancelled con appearances and failed to snag any awards

Is going to have to crawl back to YouTube despite her obvious desire to get as far away from it as possible.

I bet Lindsay's bill for Drizzly booze delivery hits the triple digits every week now

Oh dear god, watching Ellis finally perhaps fly too close to the sun has been a long time coming... seeing the wax start to melt and her crash to Earth finally begin across all fronts at once?

Fucking beautiful.

You know, instead of trying to transition to a novel writing career, she would have done better becoming a documentary maker, or maybe filming something original, then getting it on Netflix or Amazon Prime. But it was a publishing company that approached her so that's what she went with.

But would that have provided the legitimacy she so desperately craves?

Who else could be all but handed a new media empire, and give it all away for a whiff of success from legacy media?

Who gave Lindsay back the account access so she could sadpost?
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Too slowly by any measure.

Wonder what finally broke her and made the need for backpats from her hugbox?
 
I honestly don't get this crazy amount of hate Ernest Cline gets from other writers that are so openly about it, what is up with that?

I mean, I do get the hate on the simple basis of enjy and jealousness, who wouldn't want his sucess right?

And while ago, when the buzz of the movies was going, I skimmed the first book and yeah, his prose seems to be pretty amateurish even for a layman like me, and his relieance on member berries is some of the worst example of nostalgia whoring we have, and I saw the movie and the plot of his movie is template YA dystopia fight the big corp/gov bullshit.

Ok, I get how Cline is a hack, but I could make the same case for a bunch of other authors that also managed to hit big with their books and Hollywood flicks, and they aren't considered destroyers of western culture like Ernest Cline, I mean, Christ help me, but I've read Cassandra Clare's city of Bones and that thing was abysmal on how bad it was (no, never read twilight, I don't know how bad it is in comparison), and Clare wa getting all sorts of praise, at least at the moment I've read it, so where was the hate brigade from other author to that piece of shit?

Or is it because Cline is a white guy and blah blah blah twitter polidicks?

And to be clear, I don't care if Cline gets hate, my impression of the guy is that he is a hack, and he has more money than he should care about hate anyway, just curious on why his peers hate him so much to be vocal about it.
The vitriol towards Cline isn't because he's a white male nor is because he's a shitty writer (though he is). It's because there's a social aspect to being part of the backlash. If you're not part of the blind fanbase over-praising RPO, you can be part of the group dunking on how awful he is. You may not be the first one to notice his smarmy, hacky writing-style, but you can commiserate with the hundreds of others who noticed too. You can high-five each other as you make jokes about how stupid his books are.

Not that we're any better, sharing a laugh over how bad Axioms End and its sequel are. But there's something especially obnoxious about a bunch of terrible writers bonding over mocking a terrible writer.
 
For digital sales? Yes, one of the things I like about Nielsen BookScan is it includes probably the best full view of sales numbers, including digital sales, anywhere. At least on the full edition, the cheaper version only includes retail sales. One stop shop for data junkies. About the only data it excludes are direct/direct digital sales, unless the publisher reports them. For example, an ebook bought on Amazon and certain other marketplaces are tracked - numbers from the publishers website may not be. A lot of publishers like to keep that number close to the vest. Likewise, audiobook sales and foreign additions are left out entirely - some authors/publishers make a fortune on audiobooks, and some authors are weirdly popular in certain countries overseas. Ideally, a midrange or very popular author will earn out the cost of a new book on those subrights alone - but that's a luxury many new authors do not have.

That also admittedly is just the sales data - there are additional variables on everything ranging from subrights to audiobooks and foreign editions, internal sales numbers/projections, and a dozen other factors, the biggest being just how many copies were printed and how much was spent on advertising. For all I know, the audiobook to Axiom's End sold 100,000 copies on Audible, and both Ellis and her publisher have a nice return, sales drop be damned. On the flip side, St. Martin's Press might have printed 75k hardcover copies and even with an expensive marketing campaign, and barely sold half of what they printed, and are wondering how to liquidate the rest.

It's not the whole picture, but the more of the picture I get, the less and less good it looks.

As for how much an author actually makes on book sales, that depends on a lot of factors, but the big ones are the publisher and the percentages, and of course, the size of the advance.

The Industry standard for royalties to authors is around 10 percent - some are higher, some are lower, but usually never far removed from 10 percent.

So an author earns a couple bucks on each hardcover sold. A little less on each paperback. Less if its from wholesalers. Nothing if it doesn't sell at all.

So lets say Ellis earns $2 for each hardcover of Axiom's End sold... that puts her take near $68,000. maybe another $20k for the new book, and $15k for the Axiom's End paperback, just sop we're dealing with nice round numbers. Gives her around just short of $100k... about what she earns in a month from Patreon. And those royalty checks aren't going to get bigger looking at her sales numbers. Plus, advances are structured so she won't see all that money at once, usually biannually... this why your back catalog is important, because even in an ideal scenario, you get two royalty checks a year from each book. The ones that turn a profit anyway.

Ah, but here's the kicker - depending on the size of her advance, she might not see a single penny of that money. This is why if you're not literally broke, sometimes a smaller advance works to your advantage. Most authors never earn back those big advances, and it costs them in the long run.

This is also where those circulation numbers come into play... even if she earns back that advance, it's entirely possible that the publisher lost money on the books. Especially for book two, which looks to be taking a real dive. And her sales numbers are already cratering to about where most debut authors land, so that initial push may have benefited nobody but Lindsay's pride.
I’m considering reading Axioms Edge finally to see the actual criticisms everyone has throughly mocked and analysed from every possible angle, but I really feel uncomfortable at giving her any money at all if it’s okay s terrible (and probably is) as everyone is making it out to be. Is it worth it?

Also this might be the most TL:DR lolcow thread there is, but damn people really go into depth with how much they hate Lindsey and how she sucks at almost everything lmao it’s kind of admirable.
 
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The vitriol towards Cline isn't because he's a white male nor is because he's a shitty writer (though he is). It's because there's a social aspect to being part of the backlash. If you're not part of the blind fanbase over-praising RPO, you can be part of the group dunking on how awful he is. You may not be the first one to notice his smarmy, hacky writing-style, but you can commiserate with the hundreds of others who noticed too. You can high-five each other as you make jokes about how stupid his books are.

Not that we're any better, sharing a laugh over how bad Axioms End and its sequel are. But there's something especially obnoxious about a bunch of terrible writers bonding over mocking a terrible writer.
So it’s just the fun of beating on the Internet’s punching bag. See: Nickelback, Justin Bieber, Rebecca Black, Roman Reigns, Michael Bay Transformers, Star Wars prequels, Star Wars sequels, Twilight and The Big Bang Theory.
 
I’m considering reading Axioms Edge finally to see the actual criticisms everyone has throughly mocked and analysed from every possible angle, but I really feel uncomfortable at giving her any money at all if it’s okay s terrible (and probably is) as everyone is making it out to be. Is it worth it?

Also this might be the most TL:biggrin:R lolcow thread there is, but damn people really go into depth with how much they hate Lindsey and how she sucks at almost everything lmao it’s kind of admirable.
This thread has explained ways to find her shitty books gratis. Or go order them used from various sellers on the internet. Most of them probably haven’t been read at all and were just bought by simps until they realized their mistake or decided it wasn’t worth the space their limited bookshelves.
The vitriol towards Cline isn't because he's a white male nor is because he's a shitty writer (though he is). It's because there's a social aspect to being part of the backlash.
Oh no, there’s plenty of vitriol hurled towards him for being a pale penis-haver. I haven’t read RPO nor do I intend to but a cursory internet search has shown lots of wokespeak when decrying his shitty book.
It's possible she took a smaller contract, but I very much doubt it, given how fast Axiom's End made the transition from NYT Bestseller list to clearance bins signals that the publisher is DESPERATE to move units and make back some money.
Agreed. Especially since Boozy Lindsay’s simps are purportedly fans of literature. These clowns likely gave her a huge contract. Considering this is her only real shot at a major enough publishing deal, she better enjoy it because once she pinches out her third and final book, that’ll be it. She will never go the self-published route as all she cares about is the notoriety in being published by someone mainstream. Imagine getting this opportunity and pissing it away on Transformers fanfiction :story:
 
I’m considering reading Axioms Edge finally to see the actual criticisms everyone has throughly mocked and analysed from every possible angle, but I really feel uncomfortable at giving her any money at all if it’s okay s terrible (and probably is) as everyone is making it out to be. Is it worth it?
Yes

Lindsay's book career is already in the toilet. Buying her book to laugh at her shitty writing won't save her lol
 
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