YABookgate

Thanks for answering. That is actually very reassuring for me since I've been wondering if I wasted my time writing my book. That's a big worry off my shoulders, and I can finish my project without any shred of doubt. The info about tax is actually a news for me, since I don't really know how taxes for this sort of stuff works
Yeah, your agent will fix this all up for you paperwork wise. Pretty much all you'll have to worry about is getting the book written. :story:
 
Elric is probably a foundational text of so much that has come after it, not just in Fantasy literature but in both board and video games. Full disclosure, I've only read the first two volumes and the atrociously awful GN somebody did way back in the day, maybe as far back as the 1970s.

I think a lot of his tedious hate boner for Tolkien/Lewis/etc. is simply the disdain of the Boomer for those who came before. Then again, I think he likes the Gormenghast books.

Always got a kick out of this song, captures the whole Elric thing pretty well. Moorcock wrote most of the lyrics as well, IIRC.



Mention Thomas Covenant on /r/fantasy and you'll get hit with non-stop RAAPPPPEEEEEE/we can't read him/you shouldn't read him posts. Rather tiring, given that it is NOT presented in a positive light and all Covenant does for the rest of the books is try to atone for it.

Doesn't matter. Gotta cancel Stephen R. Donaldson like Piers Anthony (who may in fact deserve it.)

Elric is fascinating because its the rare reactive work that invents enough new stuff, and has plenty to say beyond "Take that!"... it was one of the first works to invoke a multiverse, Elric is not only one of the ur-examples of the fantasy antihero, but the original magical albino trope that has now popped up/been riffed on everywhere from Raistlin to Drizzt, and yes, to Geralt of Rivia. Toss in some LSD-induced weirdness, and you get a seminal work of the fantasy genre.

As for Donaldson... they're much poorer for it. Not only because they miss the point of Covenant's abhorrent actions - ie, he's like every other person who when given free reign in a fantasy world, be it the land, or Grand Theft Auto, turn into a sociopath, and the rest of the series as you say, forces him to deal with the consequences.

They also miss that Donaldson is a master of the genre, who pulls more power into some dialog exchanges than most YA authors pull for a whole series, including perhaps my favorite dialog exchange in the entire fantasy genre:

“Are you a storyteller, Thomas Covenant?"
Absently he replied, "I was, once."
"And you gave it up? Ah, that is as sad a tale in three words as any you might have told me. But a life without a tale is like a sea without salt. How do you live?"
Unconsciously, he clenched his fist over his ring. "I live."
"Another?" Foamfollower returned. "In two words, a story sadder than the first. Say no more -- with one word you will make me weep.”
 
Elric is fascinating because its the rare reactive work that invents enough new stuff, and has plenty to say beyond "Take that!"... it was one of the first works to invoke a multiverse, Elric is not only one of the ur-examples of the fantasy antihero, but the original magical albino trope that has now popped up/been riffed on everywhere from Raistlin to Drizzt, and yes, to Geralt of Rivia. Toss in some LSD-induced weirdness, and you get a seminal work of the fantasy genre.

As for Donaldson... they're much poorer for it. Not only because they miss the point of Covenant's abhorrent actions - ie, he's like every other person who when given free reign in a fantasy world, be it the land, or Grand Theft Auto, turn into a sociopath, and the rest of the series as you say, forces him to deal with the consequences.

They also miss that Donaldson is a master of the genre, who pulls more power into some dialog exchanges than most YA authors pull for a whole series, including perhaps my favorite dialog exchange in the entire fantasy genre:

“Are you a storyteller, Thomas Covenant?"
Absently he replied, "I was, once."
"And you gave it up? Ah, that is as sad a tale in three words as any you might have told me. But a life without a tale is like a sea without salt. How do you live?"
Unconsciously, he clenched his fist over his ring. "I live."
"Another?" Foamfollower returned. "In two words, a story sadder than the first. Say no more -- with one word you will make me weep.”
I know this is unrelated, but your post made me decide to check on Thomas Covenant and I can't believe how much similar it is to Isekai novels, at least from what I can gather. Not only the "transported to another world" and worldbuilding aspects, but also the Narou-kei element of Isekai stories. The genre awareness, the cynicism, it's so like Isekai. Hell, the first book even has the "got hit by a bus/truck/vehicle" trope
 
I dunno if this is BS or not, but I saw it on Twitter, so here it is. Make of it what you will. Self-insert jack-off harem fic with LitRPG overtones sells hundreds of copies, so I kinda find this hard to believe. Or did, until I realize how awful the current state of woke pubishing is. Twitter / Archive

View attachment 2892817


View attachment 2892824

Any idea where the original post the Tweet shared came from?

Surely

There was a Bookscan post going about on the Patrick Tomlinson/Lindsay Ellis threads that expanded to include some other authors including CR. This figure is the same, so the info is from the one source. I don't think it's a leak so much as open source info that sort of has to be accessed via a paid subscription. Everyone is just riffing off @Boston Brand's leak.

(Anyone can get Bookscan, but it's so expensive it's more of a thing companies buy).

Apparently Bookscan doesn't collect Walmart, mailing list, book clubs or direct sales, which given CR's current market placement and emphasis on hand selling to die-hards I suspect is what her main focus is at the moment.

Cat Rambo Partial Sales.jpg


If you ever want to know why SFWA has cratered it's reputation in the past decade, the fact that the only person they've elected President in the past decade whose work is even mildly commercially successful is John Scalzi, whose tenure marked the start of its downward slide, and if SCALZI is your benchmark for success...
John Scalzi Sales.jpg

Well, much like whatever idiot at Tor gave him a seven figure contract, you're already in trouble. The last person to lead SFWA that was actually commercially successful beyond a few flukes was Catherine Asaro, and she was President from 2003 to 2005.

They've fallen a long way from the days of being led by Ben Bova and Joe Haldeman, much less the glory days of Jerry Pournelle or Norman Spinrad.

Whats so frustrating about this is the line people aren't reading just isn't true people are reading more than ever they just aren't reading stuff traditionally published.

Oh, they're still reading stuff that's traditionally published. Just not the kind of trad published stuff pushed by SFWA or the Hugo Awards.

SFFWA is the biggest grouping of pedophiles, dog fuckers, and deviants outside of a lolicon furry convention.

Most of them write terrible bullshit.

The fact that "Cat Rambo" sold 12 books is surprising since they're the President of the org.

I figured they sold none and were just really good at sucking Tor's dick.

When I was a baby writer it was almost the holy grail of acceptance - sell three pro-paid short stories or a novel and you could wear your SFWA badge with pride (especially since it became so easy to upload a phone book and 300 pages of Lorem Ipsum onto Amazon and call yourself a “published writer” - there has to be SOMETHING to prove you weren’t a flake)

But as soon as I became eligible for full membership, you could see there was no “there” there. Not even the forums are interesting, or helpful. I think the only thing that the SFWA can be commended for is chasing dodgy publishing contracts, and it’s only a secondary feature of a very closed “in-group” looking after each other and helping others accidentally.

I actually still urge authors to aim for qualifying for SFWA as a bench mark of success, mostly because making three pro-sale short stories is a damned hard feat to accomplish... even if you don't plan to be a trad published author, if you can pull that off, you've got the writing ability to stand head and shoulders above every Tom, Dick and Harry who self-publishes every stupid thing they crank out. Helps you polish off your rough edges and hone your voice, find an audience and all that.

Beyond that? There were days when SFWA did a lot of good for its members - contract negotiations, estate planning, bargaining over pay rates, etc. The medical fund for years was a great resource for older authors without a support network, though its largely a relic at this point.

Now that the inmates run the asylum? It's good for exactly two things: the member directory, and voting in the Nebula Awards, the latter of which is why I'm a member, because my publisher literally requires us to have membership so we can vote for our books... thankfully, votes are secret ballot, so I vote for whatever the most reactionary work I can.

Which is a goddamned shame. Both because of the formerly impressive pedigree of SFWA, and an organization repping authors and editors could do the field so much good, if it was more focused on those interests, rather than leftist naval gazing.

Wait, so let me get this straight. So theoretically you can query an American/British agent even if you don't live in either of those countries? A bit of PL, but I've been thinking of finishing my novels and sending query letters, but I live in neither of those countries so I don't know whether or not they're willing to accept me

Yup! MOST traditionally published authors in the SFF field in (PL Shitty Country) have either a US or British Agent. (Or they sell their books as magic realism/literary and go down that path where there are more agents)

The only issue is tax though, you technically get "paid" by your agent (as all the book royalties go through them), and the money will be taxed by the IRS or Her Majesties Income Thieves before it's posted to you.

Tax treaties with the other country usually mean its about 5%, but STILL that can be a couple of thousand at minimum for a bog standard Big 5 book contract *sigh*

Thanks for answering. That is actually very reassuring for me since I've been wondering if I wasted my time writing my book. That's a big worry off my shoulders, and I can finish my project without any shred of doubt. The info about tax is actually a news for me, since I don't really know how taxes for this sort of stuff works

Yup. It's actually become a roadblock facing many newbie American authors - many publishers have quotas to meet on how much stuff is non American, so if you have the crap luck to submit something great, but come from the USA or UK, when they need something from non-Anglo countries... well, sucks to be you.

Actually works out pretty well for writers overseas, thus the boom in Asian and African fiction markets, and though publishers will never admit it, they love it in part because these authors are much cheaper than their Yank or British counterparts. 8 cents a word for a 5k word short story makes an author $400, which is pretty shit in the states, but can be several months salary for most of the rest of the planet, and even a small novel advance can last years even in mid-development countries.

I know this is unrelated, but your post made me decide to check on Thomas Covenant and I can't believe how much similar it is to Isekai novels, at least from what I can gather. Not only the "transported to another world" and worldbuilding aspects, but also the Narou-kei element of Isekai stories. The genre awareness, the cynicism, it's so like Isekai. Hell, the first book even has the "got hit by a bus/truck/vehicle" trope

Yup. What Japan dubs "Isekai" have another name in the Western fantasy canon: portal fantasy.

It was, pre-Tolkien, the most popular type of story in the genre, from where we get Alice in Wonderland, John Carter of Mars, Wizard of Oz, Narnia, the works.

More modern works include Thomas Covenant, Outlander, The Magicians, 1632, hell, pretty much every alternate history novel centered on someone or a group sent back in time.

Hell, I know from shop talk that Baen is even in negotiations with some manga publishers to see if they can't get manga/light novel adaptations of some of their portal fantasy... an idea I tried to pitch to my own publisher to little success. The first American publisher to tap the isekai market will strike a potential gold mine.

Long story short? I would love a Thomas Covenant anime, just because it takes the piss out of many of the portal fantasy/isekai cliches, odd given it predates many of them. I might be willing to settle for a 1632 anime though.
 
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Yup. What Japan dubs "Isekai" have another name in the Western fantasy canon: portal fantasy.

It was, pre-Tolkien, the most popular type of story in the genre, from where we get Alice in Wonderland, John Carter of Mars, Wizard of Oz, Narnia, the works.

More modern works include Thomas Covenant, Outlander, The Magicians, 1632, hell, pretty much every alternate history novel centered on someone or a group sent back in time.

Hell, I know from shop talk that Baen is even in negotiations with some manga publishers to see if they can't get manga/light novel adaptations of some of their portal fantasy... an idea I tried to pitch to my own publisher to little success. The first American publisher to tap the isekai market will strike a potential gold mine.

Long story short? I would love a Thomas Covenant anime, just because it takes the piss out of many of the portal fantasy/isekai cliches, odd given it predates many of them. I might be willing to settle for a 1632 anime though.
A 1632 anime would be sick as hell and very very weird for me to watch, the scene were the m60 fucking mows down a tercio would be worth the price of admission alone
 
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Ah...I didn't know lots of the "diversity quota" works were actually written by overseas writers. That actually explained a lot of things. Interesting...

And a question related to that, this is actually something that I've been wondering for a while, now that Asian media is growing more popular by day in the west, do you think publishers would try to covet some of that market by publishing works inspired by anime/manga or at least appealing to the weebs? I found this novel a while ago and the author explicitly references lots of anime
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52459864-iron-widow

And considering the young age of current weebs, I also thought that it would be a more appropriate long-term investment to appeal for this market, especially when you consider the current wave of East Asian soft power probably going to continue for quite some time
 
A 1632 anime would be sick as hell and very very weird for me to watch, the scene were the m60 fucking mows down a terico would be worth the price of admission alone

You and me both. Gate, but with less waifus, and more Caroleans.

Ah...I didn't know lots of the "diversity quota" works were actually written by overseas writers. That actually explained a lot of things. Interesting...

And a question related to that, this is actually something that I've been wondering for a while, now that Asian media is growing more popular by day in the west, do you think publishers would try to covet some of that market by publishing works inspired by anime/manga or at least appealing to the weebs? I found this novel a while ago and the author explicitly references lots of anime
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52459864-iron-widow

And considering the young age of current weebs, I also thought that it would be a more appropriate long-term investment to appeal for this market, especially when you consider the current wave of East Asian soft power probably going to continue for quite some time

Not just overseas writers mind you - there is a quota for more "diverse" authors from the Anglosphere as well. So if you're American/British white, male, or some combo of the three, congrats... despite constituting more than 90 percent of all submissions, most publishers cap off total new authors they'll sign from those demos to 50 percent, quite often less. Oh, and if you signed with Tor, they will not spend a single dime to promote you.

I've literally passed brilliant work up the chain only to have it rejected because a white guy wrote it.

As for that pivot toward Asian media, frankly, its probably a move far overdue - Hayakawa Publishing publishes a lot of American scifi, hell, the book covers and light novel adaptations for some of these are wild.

If the efforts Baen is trying to expand on that front prove successful, many will follow.

Sad thing about publishing is nobody wants to be the first to do anything.
 
Yup. What Japan dubs "Isekai" have another name in the Western fantasy canon: portal fantasy.

It was, pre-Tolkien, the most popular type of story in the genre, from where we get Alice in Wonderland, John Carter of Mars, Wizard of Oz, Narnia, the works.

More modern works include Thomas Covenant, Outlander, The Magicians, 1632, hell, pretty much every alternate history novel centered on someone or a group sent back in time.

Hell, I know from shop talk that Baen is even in negotiations with some manga publishers to see if they can't get manga/light novel adaptations of some of their portal fantasy... an idea I tried to pitch to my own publisher to little success. The first American publisher to tap the isekai market will strike a potential gold mine.

Long story short? I would love a Thomas Covenant anime, just because it takes the piss out of many of the portal fantasy/isekai cliches, odd given it predates many of them. I might be willing to settle for a 1632 anime though.
There's more to Isekai than just portal fiction, as it generally needs solid worldbuilding. Also as a subgenre of Narou-kei (something not many people discussed about), the genre also has genre-awareness, self referencial, and also shaped by readers' feedback due to its root as web fictions. Great examples of Narou-kei are Sword Art Online and Mushoku Tensei

I can sperg more about it, but it's probably going to be way too long. Juat think of it as works in places like Wattpad or Royalroad but has worldbuilding and self-awareness
A 1632 anime would be sick as hell and very very weird for me to watch, the scene were the m60 fucking mows down a tercio would be worth the price of admission alone
There's this anime called Gate, but that's more "what if modern army meets fantasy army". Also many considered it as a JSDF recruitment propaganda (the author was a soldier), so take that as you will
As for that pivot toward Asian media, frankly, its probably a move far overdue - Hayakawa Publishing publishes a lot of American scifi, hell, the book covers and light novel adaptations for some of these are wild.

If the efforts Baen is trying to expand on that front prove successful, many will follow.

Sad thing about publishing is nobody wants to be the first to do anything.
Yeah, I really want to see that happen, it's going to open up more creative possibilities for writers and choices for readers. So far I can only found Japanese manga/light novels being dominated by players in the Japanese industry themselves, like Kadokawa with Bookwalker. Funny thing is, even a juggernaut like Kadokawa is still trying to figure out how they need to market their products overseas. So far they like the method of closely working with the more active licensee, like Crunchyroll
 
Ah...I didn't know lots of the "diversity quota" works were actually written by overseas writers. That actually explained a lot of things. Interesting...

And a question related to that, this is actually something that I've been wondering for a while, now that Asian media is growing more popular by day in the west, do you think publishers would try to covet some of that market by publishing works inspired by anime/manga or at least appealing to the weebs? I found this novel a while ago and the author explicitly references lots of anime
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52459864-iron-widow

And considering the young age of current weebs, I also thought that it would be a more appropriate long-term investment to appeal for this market, especially when you consider the current wave of East Asian soft power probably going to continue for quite some time
Piggy backing off this, I’ve noticed agents on Manuscript Wishlist will often have anime/manga in their wishlists, and writers on Twitter comparing their books to anime/manga. I’ve seen other writers compare their works to Final Fantasy or other jrpgs (but I haven’t seen this as much). Or you have books where the main character also happens to be into gaming or cosplay. I’m not sure if it’s because that’s what people are buying, or if that’s what the people who work in the industry like.
 
Whats the kiwi opinion on Christopher Ruocchio and his sun eater series? Not gonna lie, I like his work so far. He's published with daw.

Same as every other editor: Wishing I'd signed him before DAW did. Man's breathtakingly talented, based as hell, and a dear favorite of mine.

Ten years from now Ruocchio and Sun Eater will be mentioned in the same breath as Gene Wolfe or Frank Herbert.
 
As for that pivot toward Asian media, frankly, its probably a move far overdue - Hayakawa Publishing publishes a lot of American scifi, hell, the book covers and light novel adaptations for some of these are wild.
I've seen the covers for the Japanese editions of A Song of Ice and Fire and they are goddamn gorgeous to behold.
 
God damn it, Japan gets the cool shit again while in the west we have boring as fuck graphic design as covers with the same stock image copypasted.

Admittedly, the Honor Harrington book covers in the US are very good too. Baen is, for better and worse, increasingly better, die hard devotees when it comes to classical cover art.

I LOATHE the modern school of making every other book look like a freshman graphic design students crapped it out in five hours over photoshop.
 
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Admittedly, the Honor Harrington book covers in the US are very good too. Baen is, for better and worse, increasingly better, die hards when it comes to classical cover art.

I LOATHE the modern school of making every other book look like a freshman graphic design students crapped it out in five hours over photoshop.
And it's especially prevelant with YA. Everytime I go to Barnes and Noble and pass by the YA section, it looks like an endless sea of something I would half ass in my computer design class in high school. If there's nothing eye-catching about the cover that would entice someone to puase and look at it for a few extra seconds, then no wonder why teens aren't reading as much since there's nothing from the get-go to grab their attention, besides the fact that YA is just 'lonely, woke, mentally-arrested wine aunt that smells of puke and uses twitter' dribble.
 
Admittedly, the Honor Harrington book covers in the US are very good too. Baen is, for better and worse, increasingly better, die hards when it comes to classical cover art.

I LOATHE the modern school of making every other book look like a freshman graphic design students crapped it out in five hours over photoshop.
The thing that really got to me was when I was in the bookstore a few years ago looking at some sci-fi series (Kris Longknife, IIRC) and realized that all the weapons on the covers were just recolored Nerf guns. It's still maybe the laziest thing I've ever seen and it made me shake my head and snicker in disbelief.
 
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