Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

How well is the combat this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 46 6.6%
  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ A well planned strike with few faults

    Votes: 45 6.5%
  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 292 42.1%
  • ⭐⭐ Worse than expected

    Votes: 269 38.8%
  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 42 6.1%

  • Total voters
    694
Status
Not open for further replies.
If Russian T72s start rushing for Kiev, I wouldn't be shocked to see the Polish Army crossing the Ukrainian frontier to bolster UA defenses. That sort of conflict would have to bring the French along for the ride at the very least, much less the Americans.
Nobody's going to do anything for the Ukrainians. Sorry, that's just the reality. There will be saber rattling, there will be harsh words, there will be "sanctions", and then - big fat nothing. No country wills to send its pathetic military to senseless deaths for Ukraine, no military in Europe is capable of going toe to toe with Russians, just no.

I've sperged multiple times on KF whenever someone mentioned "poland stronk army" and how utterly ridiculous that notion is. Baltics are even worse.
nah i think economically EU is in a much stronger position than russia.
russia is extremely dependent on energy and resource exports to keep its economy running, and EU is its biggest customer. eurotards won't actually freeze to death, they'll suffer energy price spikes but they can manage that. russia on the other hand could not manage a trade boycott from the EU without collapsing.
That could be true maybe 10 years ago. Now Russia is trading with China. Do you know why the gas has become so expensive in Europe? That's right, it's because China buys it all and gives better money.

Russia is fed up with the constant bickering and will build more pipelines towards China, as it's currently a lot more reliable trading and diplomatic partner. Look up "Power of Siberia 2".
The Russia-NATO talks are turning bad. The next package of sanctions include disconnecting Russia from SWIFT which would collapse that economy. It's probably just a threat, because US was used it before, although not as frequently as "you'll freeze" threat.
Russia has its own interbanking messaging system now (SPFS) developed after first threats of disconnection surfaced in 2014, and their own card payment system (Mir). They aren't as dependend on trade with West as they were 20 or even 10 years ago - they can and do trade with China, India, Iran etc. Once again, disconnecting Russia from the West is currently more economically damaging for the West.
 
Once again, disconnecting Russia from the West is currently more economically damaging for the West.
And what does Russia produce besides gas, AKs and cheap prostitutes? Oh that's right, nothing because it's a third world shithole that's completely irrelevant economically to the West. Also China's main trade partners are either NATO members or NATO friendly countries meanwhile Russia is not even in their top 10, this fantasy that China will save poor baby Russia for no reason and burn every economic bridge they have with the West is the dumbest shit brainwashed vatniks like you come up with.
Russia can have a billion SWIFT alternatives, the truth of the matter is that no one with money to invest will waste their time and possible economic implication switching to some shitty kremlin control scuffed payment system when the world standard is SWIFT, let alone invest in a dying country like Russia.
 
And what does Russia produce besides gas, AKs and cheap prostitutes? Oh that's right, nothing because it's a third world shithole that's completely irrelevant economically to the West. Also China's main trade partners are either NATO members or NATO friendly countries meanwhile Russia is not even in their top 10, this fantasy that China will save poor baby Russia for no reason and burn every economic bridge they have with the West is the dumbest shit brainwashed vatniks like you come up with.
Russia can have a billion SWIFT alternatives, the truth of the matter is that no one with money to invest will waste their time and possible economic implication switching to some shitty kremlin control scuffed payment system when the world standard is SWIFT, let alone invest in a dying country like Russia.

Yes, other than being the worlds largest petrochemical exporter, worlds largest grain producer, enormous resource wealth, large defense industrial sector, having enough nuclear missiles to end life on earth, having one of the largest and most capable militaries on earth, Russia is entirely irrelevant and we can safely ignore them

Other than all that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?
 
Yes, other than being the worlds largest petrochemical exporter, worlds largest grain producer, enormous resource wealth, large defense industrial sector, having enough nuclear missiles to end life on earth, having one of the largest and most capable militaries on earth, Russia is entirely irrelevant and we can safely ignore them
Yeah but besides all that what have the Romans ever really done for us?
 
Yes, other than being the worlds largest petrochemical exporter,
That's Saudi Arabia by a landslide
worlds largest grain producer,
That's China followed by India, also imagine thinking that farming a lot of grain is an achievement in 2022.
enormous resource wealth
Irrelevant when all you do is mine it and sell it to other countries because you have no industry.
large defense industrial sector
Not even close, also they're heavily in debt, oudated and lack qualified personnel.
having one of the largest and most capable militaries on earth
So capable that they got ass raped while trying to take over a city like Grozny and then shoot their own planes during the Russo-Georgian war. The Russian army is a joke kept alive by shitty propaganda, mandatory conscription and occasionally bombing some Syrians.
 
That's Saudi Arabia by a landslide

No


That's China followed by India, also imagine thinking that farming a lot of grain is an achievement in 2022.

No (lol@ thinking it's China, the country known for its burgers and bread)


Irrelevant when all you do is mine it and sell it to other countries because you have no industry.

Not even close, also they're heavily in debt, oudated and lack qualified personnel.

So capable that they got ass raped while trying to take over a city like Grozny and then shoot their own planes during the Russo-Georgian war. The Russian army is a joke kept alive by shitty propaganda, mandatory conscription and occasionally bombing some Syrians.

Given your demonstrated ignorance I'm sure this is accurate
 
In real news there was supposedly a news spreading around that Russia was pulling its diplomat families from Ukraine. Later in the day it was said to be a fake, but who knows. Even a fake news has impact.


Yes.

OPEC is not just one country, camel-jockeys can work as one and they have bent Russia over a few times before by dumping oil prices. OPEC will always work with US.

The real problem is economic dependency on oil. For most of sand niggers, they went from something retardely high like 70-80% to below 30%. Russia actually pumps more oil but profits from sales have fallen which on paper looks like they are less dependent on sale of dino juice/farts. Also keep in mind that Urals is far less desirable than Brent and its price reflects that.

Nobody's going to do anything for the Ukrainians. Sorry, that's just the reality. There will be saber rattling, there will be harsh words, there will be "sanctions", and then - big fat nothing. No country wills to send its pathetic military to senseless deaths for Ukraine, no military in Europe is capable of going toe to toe with Russians, just no.

Russian military is the same paper tiger as Chinese. For every bad ass, there are tens of thousands of dumb conscripts who never shot a rifle and who don't want to be there and enough dumb generals like Shoigu, defense minister, a hero of Russia with assload of medals who has never in his life actually served in military. One thing that Russia/USSR was good at is throwing bodies until enemy literally run out of ammo. In that regard no military ever can match that.


But whatever bro, just watch how Russian military fared in Armenia/Azerbajan proxy war against Turkey. It was fucking bloodbath. All the Russian high tech and training and modules just got fucked. Do you want to tell me that another proxy war between Russia and whatever will go differently?

This why proxy wars are fought. Because potential customer looks at that shit show and buys from guys who actually won (hint: not Russia)


That could be true maybe 10 years ago. Now Russia is trading with China. Do you know why the gas has become so expensive in Europe? That's right, it's because China buys it all and gives better money.

China gets it's gas from Sila Sibiry pipeline. EU gets gas from a different pipe. Those pipes are like thousands of miles apart. It's like saying that concrete market in San Francisco dictates concrete prices in London.
 
Russia has its own interbanking messaging system now (SPFS) developed after first threats of disconnection surfaced in 2014, and their own card payment system (Mir). They aren't as dependend on trade with West as they were 20 or even 10 years ago - they can and do trade with China, India, Iran etc. Once again, disconnecting Russia from the West is currently more economically damaging for the West.

This a megathread-size material.

The "importozameshenie" - "replacement of import" became a thing when West placed sanctions on Russia and Vlad, being the lolcow that he is, placed sanctions on the West. :story: This is like threatening people with you cutting your own balls. Sure, rank and file Russians suffered because cheap apples (Russia imports those since they can't fucking grow own and export them) would be carted to a dump instead of may be given to an orphanage or given out free to poor. Later they had to use tractors to flatten the "contraband" with tractors to avoid poor babushkas from picking that shit from a city dump.

Anywho ... Russian effort to replace foreign parts have been comedy gold on so many levels.

There has been many "scandals" of Russian ministers peddling what seems like domestically developed shit only to be recognized as some Ali Express items. Including new Russian military fashion show ... too lazy to dig that up.

Ukraine has made most rocket engines and aircraft engines since USSR. Fuck with them and now Admiral Kuznetsov, Russia's only aircraft carrier and epic lolcow, can't get repaired (it was built in Nicolaev, Ukraine) That aircraft career warrants another thread, but I digress. A lot of Russian military ships can't get repair components because no one figured it would be a problem to get them from Ukraine in the future.

But enough of Ukraine, Russian aircraft industry is heavily dependent on Western components for both domestic and military aircraft and no one in their defense ministry would admit that. SU-57, the latest and greatest got rejected by street shitting pajits after lengthy (it costs too much) talks which debunks the whole trade with India and China bullshit.

Russia is still riding that wave of USSR recognition when USSR could sell shitty, but stupid cheap products. Well, Russia is not USSR, not even by a long shot. Since 1991, factories have been closing right and left, there is another graph somewhere, but even the Russian Federation of USSR has degraded at least an order of magnitude from where it was.
 
Nobody's going to do anything for the Ukrainians. Sorry, that's just the reality. There will be saber rattling, there will be harsh words, there will be "sanctions", and then - big fat nothing. No country wills to send its pathetic military to senseless deaths for Ukraine, no military in Europe is capable of going toe to toe with Russians, just no.
Lmao
Once again, disconnecting Russia from the West is currently more economically damaging for the West.
God russians must have found some really good copium deposit
 
Ukraine and the Danger of Human Miscalculation (Archive)

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s threat to invade Ukraine and President Joe Biden’s threat to sanction Russia in response cast into high relief the danger of human miscalculation in causing a war neither side wants. Each side may miscalculate what the other may do, and each other’s options are asymmetrical to the other’s. That Putin has leaned so far forward makes it hard for him to back down without anything to show for his saber-rattling.

Don’t expect an invasion to end with Western sanctions. Thus, a key issue isn’t whether the West can deter an invasion. It’s what happens after that. Western economic sanctions would likely prompt an asymmetrical response. Open-source reporting has suggested that Russia may have already infiltrated elements of the U.S. power grid. Its malware may also be able to damage critical infrastructure and access to the Internet on which our lives depend. The West is vulnerable to cyberattacks from Russia—a long-term challenge that must be vigorously addressed. Deploying cyber malware can trigger rapid, catastrophic escalation that severely damages all parties. We need to think several steps ahead. We must guard against the danger of human miscalculation in anticipating how each side may react to action by the other.

Putin claims Ukraine is part of Russia. He ignores the 1994 Budapest agreement that guaranteed Ukrainian independence. But we’re dealing with how Putin’s perceptions affect his strategy, not their reasonableness. The subtext may be his desire, as he nears age seventy, to establish a lasting legacy. Having pronounced the collapse of the Soviet Union a tragedy, he views his legacy as reviving the Soviet empire’s influence—Making Russia Great Again. Even though he withdrew his troops, his actions in Kazakhstan also suggest that.

Putin is smart and resourceful. But critics argue that he is also paranoid and emotional. Thucydides wrote that nations go to war out of fear, interest, or pride. Pride includes nationalism, a virulent, strong current in Russian politics. Emotion as much as reason may influence his actions.

It feels like Putin is primed to act over the next four to six weeks. Putin would likely avoid overrunning all of Ukraine in favor of seizing eastern Ukraine and then using intimidation against the western half to influence its politics. Occupying all of Ukraine would prove financially costly and invite nightmarish irregular warfare. He cannot afford a morass that sends lots of body bags home.

The United States needs a grand strategy for dealing with Russia that examines what kind of relationship is possible with Russia. Let’s not deal with Ukraine piecemeal. What are the broader consequences of action over Ukraine? How would the United States deal with rapid escalation? How much military support other than sending troops is prudent? Would a Western response drive Russia into a closer alliance with China? Is it possible to find common ground? Where are the irrational pitfalls?

U.S. strategy must be tough but smart. It must deter Russia from riding roughshod over Ukraine’s independence. It also needs to consider Russia’s perceived vital interests and address that in ways that don’t harm U.S. interests or Ukraine’s. One plausible outcome is for Ukraine to accept a status akin to Austria, which maintains freedom and independence but aligns with neither the United States nor Russia. Any strategy must persuade Russia to resist aligning with China. Russia may not be a U.S. friend, but its security interests strongly align with the U.S. goal of preventing China from achieving its 2049 dream of global military and economic supremacy, ending the international rules-based order, and rendering other nations its economic tributaries. That outcome would serve neither U.S. nor Russian interests.

How should all this be accomplished? Ideally, the Biden administration would be well advised to initiate a new Solarium project, such as the one that President Dwight Eisenhower initiated in 1953 to forge a grand strategy for defeating communism. It produced the successful strategy of containment. No succeeding administration has embarked on a similar process. It’s overdue, lends itself to the studied approach the administration seems to prefer, and could do much to avoid armed conflict over Ukraine while mutually advancing the security interests of all the parties involved.

Lt. Gen. (Ret) Dell Dailey has commanded numerous special operations units in peacetime and wartime. As an ambassador, he headed the Department of State’s counterterrorism efforts.

James P. Farwell has advised U.S. Special Operations and the Department of Defense. An Associate Fellow in the Dept. of War Studies, King’s College, University of London, he is the author of
Information Warfare (Quantico: Marine Corps U. Press, 2020) and The Corporate Warrior (Brookfield: Rothstein Publishing, 2022). The opinions expressed are their own and not those of the U.S. Government, its agencies, departments or COCOM.
 
Oh, that’s great. I knew Biden&Co. were living in the past but I had no idea how far back. Now they want to go back to “containment”. Well, how well did “containment” work in Vietnam?
 
And what does Russia produce besides gas, AKs and cheap prostitutes? Oh that's right, nothing because it's a third world shithole that's completely irrelevant economically to the West.
Blah blah blah "just a gas station" herp derp". I'd mount a more cohesive response if it wasn't already granted in this thread.

Besides you seem too ignorant to imagine that Russia not only produces, but also (and maybe more important) buys.

Russia can have a billion SWIFT alternatives, the truth of the matter is that no one with money to invest will waste their time and possible economic implication switching to some shitty kremlin control scuffed payment system when the world standard is SWIFT, let alone invest in a dying country like Russia.
Oh I see, you're at the "denial" stage. Carry on deluding yourself then.
 
Blah blah blah "just a gas station" herp derp". I'd mount a more cohesive response if it wasn't already granted in this thread.

Besides you seem too ignorant to imagine that Russia not only produces, but also (and maybe more important) buys.


Oh I see, you're at the "denial" stage. Carry on deluding yourself then.
Russian buying power is rather small and loss of the SWIFT system is as damaging to that as it is to their exports.

Russia’s military is also a paper tiger - all of their recent military procurement has been an absolute mess, and never large enough to actually matter. New planes? The Su-57 isn’t really that stealthy, and too expensive for the Russians to purchase many. The T-14? A joke in terms of numbers. The anticipated amount purchased is… 100. They currently have 20 to 30 in service and these are still experimental. Every attempt to modernize Russian small arms? Too expensive to do, issued in limited numbers or thrown into the reserve because of flaws or lack of widespread adoption.

Let’s not even get into the shitshow of the Russian Navy.
 
Russian military is the same paper tiger as Chinese.
Even if true (and I can believe it only so far), it's irrelevant if what's doing the job are the long range missiles, not full-scale boots on the ground invasion force.

Besides it becomes even more irrelevant if their opponent is not even a paper...kitten? in comparison. No state in Europe has the stomach to send their people to die in a pointless war, it would be an utter diplomatic, political and economical suicide. That is the whole point - nobody will bat an eye, because in comparison everyone is even weaker and has no will to fight.
Do you want to tell me that another proxy war between Russia and whatever will go differently?
When did we shift the goalposts into proxy conflicts? I thought the thread was about direct Russian intervention in the Ukraine.
China gets it's gas from Sila Sibiry pipeline. EU gets gas from a different pipe. Those pipes are like thousands of miles apart. It's like saying that concrete market in San Francisco dictates concrete prices in London.
Honest question: isn't there an infrastructure to move gas flows inland? I remember calls upon Russia (or maybe more specifically Gazprom?) to release some of their reserves which, I assume, don't come from the fields directly.
Ukraine has made most rocket engines and aircraft engines since USSR. Fuck with them and now Admiral Kuznetsov, Russia's only aircraft carrier and epic lolcow, can't get repaired (it was built in Nicolaev, Ukraine) That aircraft career warrants another thread, but I digress. A lot of Russian military ships can't get repair components because no one figured it would be a problem to get them from Ukraine in the future.

But enough of Ukraine, Russian aircraft industry is heavily dependent on Western components for both domestic and military aircraft and no one in their defense ministry would admit that. SU-57, the latest and greatest got rejected by street shitting pajits after lengthy (it costs too much) talks which debunks the whole trade with India and China bullshit.
I don't disagree with that and I don't claim that they can (yet?) manage all their technology requirements and yes, I know that fun story of their burning carrier.

What I'm saying is - the Russians are able to develop some areas of the military tech competently (various missile systems) and that might be good enough to deter West-style militaries, which are very sensitive to casualties and are strongly dependent on stand-off weapon systems.
 
Last edited:
Russia’s military is also a paper tiger - all of their recent military procurement has been an absolute mess, and never large enough to actually matter. New planes? The Su-57 isn’t really that stealthy, and too expensive for the Russians to purchase many. The T-14? A joke in terms of numbers. The anticipated amount purchased is… 100. They currently have 20 to 30 in service and these are still experimental. Every attempt to modernize Russian small arms? Too expensive to do, issued in limited numbers or thrown into the reserve because of flaws or lack of widespread adoption.

Let’s not even get into the shitshow of the Russian Navy.
The thing is to not compare the Russian mil to US mil (which will not come around), but to the Eurozone military. In that scenario the issue of Navy is completely irrelevant, there won't be another Gallipoli at the Crimean Peninsula or whatever nonsense the British might dream up.

I'm dead serious, what are the options? Germany and France don't want to get involved due to dependency on Russian energy exports. Poland and Baltics are stupid and suicidal, but very weak. Britain is acting belligerent and might actually do something agressive, but they're too far and can't project power well enough.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: George Lucas
Here’s what’s going to happen. Putin is going to take 1/2 of Ukraine. Biden’s handlers are going to deploy troops to the other half that Putin doesn’t want, then claim “victory” by saying that the presence of US troops deterred Putin from taking the other half, (which he didn’t want anyway). “Even when we lose, we win!”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back