Magic The Gathering

[Retink]

It's worse because it was card ADVANTAGE since you essentially got an 8th card in hand every game.

Anyway if you really want a laugh, here's what MaRo said about the mechanic in his design article:

#1: It had to be verifiable.​

​

Let's say I'm playing against my opponent and they play a creature with companion. How do I know that their deck actually follows the constraints of that companion? We didn't want players to have to call a judge and have them verify the deck every time a companion got cast. What this meant was that the constraint had to be something straightforward and applied to the whole deck. A constraint like "half the nonland cards in the deck had to be all the same card type" wasn't verifiable. Saying "all the nonland cards in your deck had to be the same card type" was. This requirement is probably the thing that knocked out the most designs. I will note, there was one card, Lutri, the Spellchaser, that technically didn't follow this constraint, but not having any repeated cards felt like a thing people could grok easily enough that it was okay.​

It's not only card advantage, it's a tutor for a specific effect on card advantage. Being able to blink a bunch of stuff or bring back a permanent like red pseudo-Yawg's Will is insane when you just always have access to that spell on demand and most of the time the drawback is minimal enough that the decks that build around it don't care that it exists for the most part. It's a mechanic that either makes the card unplayable or nuts busted in the right deck with little to no middle ground.

I get sometimes a card slips by and shit happens, but this mechanic just had so many levels of bad idea in it that I can't imagine no one in R&D didn't point out how retarded it was. It's card advantage, it's essentially a tutored card, it's boom-bust in terms of deck building, and so on.

View attachment 2939527

So Magic is about to lose one of their few remaining talented artists. Seb McKinnon was spotted at the Canadian trucker protest.

I wonder if they'll ban cards with his art on it and then when they go up ten times in price because of the banning they'll try to get eBay and sites to pull the listings like they did with Invoke Prejudice when it went from 60$ to 500$ overnight because they made it haram.

 

[I'mma real anime gurl]

If they ban his ass then they should force the tranny who designed the cards to at least work like them.

 

[AnotherPleb]

If they ban his ass then they should force the tranny who designed the cards to at least work like them.

You can't train someone in that style of art without the person having talent.

I wonder if they'll ban cards with his art on it and then when they go up ten times in price because of the banning they'll try to get eBay and sites to pull the listings like they did with Invoke Prejudice when it went from 60$ to 500$ overnight because they made it haram.

The Seb McKinnon SL is gonna skyrocket in price.

 

[Polyboros2]

You can't train someone in that style of art without the person having talent.

The Seb McKinnon SL is gonna skyrocket in price.

I don't think it will too much. It isn't like when they tried to shield themselves from not woke enough hiring practices by banning a bunch of cards from the game. It'll be like Neilson or Bradley where they stop hiring them and don't reprint there art. The cards will largely retain or lose value on functional reprints than on the exclusivity of who did the art.

While the topic is still largely relevant, I want to address my feelings on the Maro hatred. I feel like Maro gets a lot of hate that is unjustified. There has definitely been examples put forward in this thread that have been wildly inaccurate(like blaming his harm to the game coming after he became the Lead Designer, when he almost killed the game with how broken he made the Urza's Saga block). He's been involved with the game early on, he largely wrote the story a lot of people consider to be Magic at it's best(Tempest block), and if you liked Magic to any degree beyond the first five years, it probably had a lot to do with Maro's influence on it.

That said, Maro is cringe. I do genuinely think he loves the game, and as such has put himself forward as a spokesperson for it. However, he is limited by what he can say, and how he must promote things, and so why he tries to come across as candid, he's often actually very dishonest about what he says for what I believe to be mainly corporate business reasons. He thinks he's a comedic writer when he has a very boring sense of humor. He's an idea man that gets blamed for his ideas after run though the balancing process that will often chew up or destroy fun ideas that are not balanced(of note, the set where the game was so broken it almost killed Magic(Urza's Block) Maro was both Design(comes up with cards and mechanics) and Development(balances cards and sets/formats). He puts himself out there as a face of Magic if not THE face of magic, and has made himself the target of a lot of ire for anything disliked in the game even if its out of his control(like a lot of things the new CEO has done in the last 3-4 years).

TLR Maro is cringe and a sperg, but I also thinks he gets blamed for more things than he's responsible for but was definitely significantly influential in many different periods of Magic considered great.

 

[Maratus volans]

I wonder if they'll ban cards with his art on it and then when they go up ten times in price because of the banning they'll try to get eBay and sites to pull the listings like they did with Invoke Prejudice when it went from 60$ to 500$ overnight because they made it haram.

Nah, you can still play (most) cards with Harold McNeill's art, and that guy is an actual, out-and-proud neo-Nazi.

I'll probably buy a print or a playmat from Seb if WotC does actually axe him. To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't issued a statement yet.

 

[Flexo]

I don't think it will too much. It isn't like when they tried to shield themselves from not woke enough hiring practices by banning a bunch of cards from the game. It'll be like Neilson or Bradley where they stop hiring them and don't reprint there art. The cards will largely retain or lose value on functional reprints than on the exclusivity of who did the art.

While the topic is still largely relevant, I want to address my feelings on the Maro hatred. I feel like Maro gets a lot of hate that is unjustified. There has definitely been examples put forward in this thread that have been wildly inaccurate(like blaming his harm to the game coming after he became the Lead Designer, when he almost killed the game with how broken he made the Urza's Saga block). He's been involved with the game early on, he largely wrote the story a lot of people consider to be Magic at it's best(Tempest block), and if you liked Magic to any degree beyond the first five years, it probably had a lot to do with Maro's influence on it.

That said, Maro is cringe. I do genuinely think he loves the game, and as such has put himself forward as a spokesperson for it. However, he is limited by what he can say, and how he must promote things, and so why he tries to come across as candid, he's often actually very dishonest about what he says for what I believe to be mainly corporate business reasons. He thinks he's a comedic writer when he has a very boring sense of humor. He's an idea man that gets blamed for his ideas after run though the balancing process that will often chew up or destroy fun ideas that are not balanced(of note, the set where the game was so broken it almost killed Magic(Urza's Block) Maro was both Design(comes up with cards and mechanics) and Development(balances cards and sets/formats). He puts himself out there as a face of Magic if not THE face of magic, and has made himself the target of a lot of ire for anything disliked in the game even if its out of his control(like a lot of things the new CEO has done in the last 3-4 years).

TLR Maro is cringe and a sperg, but I also thinks he gets blamed for more things than he's responsible for but was definitely significantly influential in many different periods of Magic considered great.

This. Maro is responsible for some things, but not every thing.

Nah, you can still play (most) cards with Harold McNeill's art, and that guy is an actual, out-and-proud neo-Nazi.

I'll probably buy a print or a playmat from Seb if WotC does actually axe him. To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't issued a statement yet.

They should just have 1 blanket statement: "what artists do on their own time is of no concern to us as long as they get their work in on time."

 

[Maratus volans]

They should just have 1 blanket statement: "what artists do on their own time is of no concern to us as long as they get their work in on time."

If only. Sadly, this is the same company that's shoehorning Kaya into every set so they can put a black woman on the ad copy and making dungeons wheelchair accessible in D&D so cripples can be real heroes too.

 

[Retink]

Nah, you can still play (most) cards with Harold McNeill's art, and that guy is an actual, out-and-proud neo-Nazi.

I'll probably buy a print or a playmat from Seb if WotC does actually axe him. To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't issued a statement yet.

They should just have 1 blanket statement: "what artists do on their own time is of no concern to us as long as they get their work in on time."

The problem is they went the other direction with it, as they buckled to people brigading like BDM was and banned a bunch of cards because of their name and whatever. They even banned ones like Stone-Throwing Devils because supposedly that's what Israelis call Muslims but when I tried to find any reference of that all that came up was one article talking about the specific card. It's just weird that some rando can write and article about a card, potentially make up that it's name is a slur, and then people just parrot it as if it's fact. Then again we've seen milk, clowns, and the OK symbol become racist because of 4chan so why am I at all surprised it's that easy?

 

[Flexo]

The problem is they went the other direction with it, as they buckled to people brigading like BDM was and banned a bunch of cards because of their name and whatever. They even banned ones like Stone-Throwing Devils because supposedly that's what Israelis call Muslims but when I tried to find any reference of that all that came up was one article talking about the specific card. It's just weird that some rando can write and article about a card, potentially make up that it's name is a slur, and then people just parrot it as if it's fact. Then again we've seen milk, clowns, and the OK symbol become racist because of 4chan so why am I at all surprised it's that easy?
View attachment 2941980

Oh I obviously quite agree with you and @Maratus volans .

Though you've now given me the idea that we need to get 4chan to declare basic islands as white supremacy so we can finally get them banned.

EDIT: Also Re:Kaya. I wish the company would learn moderation. Back in the day where there were "teams" for the babes planeswalkers I was Chandra all the way (a shop near me has a life sized statue of her and I've seriously debated getting it). But then they just. kept. shoving her into everything. Even i was sick of her by then. (And fuck Jace...)

Likewise I think Kaya could be interesting (she's like the closest we'll probably get for a ghost pw) but they're overexposing her now. Stop choking the audience on your mascots!

 

[AnotherPleb]

They should just have 1 blanket statement: "what artists do on their own time is of no concern to us as long as they get their work in on time."

They should. Shame that it's entertainment in CY and based in the Seattle area, so that kind of common sense statement will never happen.

At least we still have Volkan Baga, but the impending loss of Seb McKinnon is going to make the game's cards lose a lot of character. Guess they'll have to try and tap into Rebecca Guay for their poster child artist.

EDIT: Also Re:Kaya. I wish the company would learn moderation. Back in the day where there were "teams" for the babes planeswalkers I was Chandra all the way (a shop near me has a life sized statue of her and I've seriously debated getting it). But then they just. kept. shoving her into everything. Even i was sick of her by then. (And fuck Jace...)

Likewise I think Kaya could be interesting (she's like the closest we'll probably get for a ghost pw) but they're overexposing her now. Stop choking the audience on your mascots!

Kaya's set to take both the Black PW and White PW slots in the Gatewatch so no way they're going to tone it down with her. Speaking of, has Kaya ever had a card that was half as pushed as Teferi's cards? IIRC they've all been 'nice but not busted' compared to the Hero of Dominaria and T3feri that absolutely snapped formats over their knees.

They have Alchemy now and they want to push that, so they really don't give a fuck about what's printed on the physical cards any more. I really wouldn't be surprised if they end up fucking up and pushing one YASS KWEEN SLAY card to the point where it breaks Standard or Modern.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

To be fair Invoke Prejudice was too based for this world since it had KKK robes and the card number 1488. The other cards banned in that bunch were wild overreactions but banning that card was just a mild overreaction because the art was a obvious reference at the very least.

 

[Retink]

EDIT: Also Re:Kaya. I wish the company would learn moderation. Back in the day where there were "teams" for the babes planeswalkers I was Chandra all the way (a shop near me has a life sized statue of her and I've seriously debated getting it). But then they just. kept. shoving her into everything. Even i was sick of her by then. (And fuck Jace...)

Likewise I think Kaya could be interesting (she's like the closest we'll probably get for a ghost pw) but they're overexposing her now. Stop choking the audience on your mascots!

A part of why Urza worked so well as we were rarely with him specifically, and his story was always told through the eyes of others like Xancha, Barrin, and Jhoira.

Kaya has some cool gimmicks but I think what will sink her as a character is what sinks most female characters these days, that people are afraid to make them have any kind of real flaws or challenges because that might give the reader the wrong impression and as a result we just end up with the pseudo Mary Sue who is always witty and sassy with the magic touch that can do anything. At least with characters like Jhoira there was some vulnerability to them, like when she was bluffing the Kelds and while she was cocky on the outside inside her head she knew they could beat the shit out of her and that the weapon she was holding that she took from them was about to snap her wrist off.

To be fair Invoke Prejudice was too based for this world since it had KKK robes and the card number 1488. The other cards banned in that bunch were wild overreactions but banning that card was just a mild overreaction because the art was a obvious reference at the very least.

From what I remember the guy who drew it came out and said it wasn't based off of the KKK but other traditional costumes, like those worn on Spanish Easter. Doubt he'd really have a reason to lie about that as he's openly a neo-Nazi so it's not like he'd shy away from endorsing the KKK if needed.

 

[cuddle striker]

If only. Sadly, this is the same company that's shoehorning Kaya into every set so they can put a black woman on the ad copy and making dungeons wheelchair accessible in D&D so cripples can be real heroes too.

don't talk shit on Daretti!

 

[Islamic Creampie]

Haven't played Magic in years. Too expensive to keep up with and I can't deal with the disgusting tards that hang out at game shops, but the art talk made me think of when I somewhat recently contacted Dameon Willich about an art print and got a bit of a curt answer. Love the artwork to Regrowth, so I was hoping to get a nice print of it. Very simple and basic, but love the warmth and colour palette. Great artwork. Get the feeling he doesn't want to be associated with MtG whatsoever anymore based on how he responded.

 

[Flexo]

Kaya has some cool gimmicks but I think what will sink her as a character is what sinks most female characters these days, that people are afraid to make them have any kind of real flaws or challenges because that might give the reader the wrong impression and as a result we just end up with the pseudo Mary Sue who is always witty and sassy with the magic touch that can do anything. At least with characters like Jhoira there was some vulnerability to them, like when she was bluffing the Kelds and while she was cocky on the outside inside her head she knew they could beat the shit out of her and that the weapon she was holding that she took from them was about to snap her wrist off.

Bingo. That was part of what I liked of Chandra at first is that she had a vulnerability and faults to her. Heck, go read one of the original webcomics of Jace vs Chandra.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/fuel-fire-2008-11-19

Maybe not the best, but it is great that neither side is really portrayed as "right" but rather both have points to them and the reader could side with either one.

Then go read say... the Kaladesh stories and you will see they have totally turned Chandra into a Mary Sue. Heck she regains one of her parents instead of being an orphan.

If anything it's sad because Gideon is the one they were most able to keep balanced generally, even adding more tragedy onto him, and he's the one they go and kill.

 

[AnotherPleb]

Bingo. That was part of what I liked of Chandra at first is that she had a vulnerability and faults to her. Heck, go read one of the original webcomics of Jace vs Chandra.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/fuel-fire-2008-11-19

Maybe not the best, but it is great that neither side is really portrayed as "right" but rather both have points to them and the reader could side with either one.

Then go read say... the Kaladesh stories and you will see they have totally turned Chandra into a Mary Sue. Heck she regains one of her parents instead of being an orphan.

If anything it's sad because Gideon is the one they were most able to keep balanced generally, even adding more tragedy onto him, and he's the one they go and kill.

It was either that or having him troon out with modern day WOTC, which would you rather have?

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Then go read say... the Kaladesh stories

You are better off if you..just don't.

Ixalan was the only Gatewatch Story worth reading.

 

[AnotherPleb]

You are better off if you..just don't.

Ixalan was the only Gatewatch Story worth reading.

Jace and Vraska being broken apart was a fucking crime.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Jace and Vraska being broken apart was a fucking crime.

That is one of the things that convinced me that Magic has no actual direction whatsoever in terms of Lore, Game Design or Competitive Formatting. Jace and Vraska's relationship was unironically the most interesting plot point to happen since The God Damned Mending and they completely fucked up doing anything with it.

 

[AnotherPleb]

That is one of the things that convinced me that Magic has no actual direction whatsoever in terms of Lore, Game Design or Competitive Formatting. Jace and Vraska's relationship was unironically the most interesting plot point to happen since The God Damned Mending and they completely fucked up doing anything with it.

The worst part is that their novels which they bragged about to high heaven in the climax of that Bolas Arc completely abandoned it with no fanfare. I was reading those story articles at the time and I honestly really liked their interactions.