Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
It wasn't the #1 target, rather it was the Belgium of mediums. They wanted movies, TV, and ultimately video games. The soft underbelly of entertainment where a wink and a smile from 5/10 made fat nerds hand over the keys to the castle.
 
My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
It wasn't the #1 target, rather it was the Belgium of mediums. They wanted movies, TV, and ultimately video games. The soft underbelly of entertainment where a wink and a smile from 5/10 made fat nerds hand over the keys to the castle.
Not so sure comics were some kind of top priority for destruction as much as they were just a piece of the pop culture puzzle that needed to fall in line with the rest of the media's shift towards idpol and social justice retardation. Granted it's an even more important piece than it was 10 years ago since Hollywood has been strip mining comics for ideas in earnest since 2012.

I think comics seem to be damaged the most because the drop in quality is more noticeable than it is for things like movies and TV. You can dress up a shitty movie or TV series with CG, a major star, multi-million dollar budgets and a big brand franchise name to disguise the fact that it's poorly written. Most audiences don't even really think about how stupid the average blockbuster film has become because they've been watching glitter covered turds for at least a decade.

Comics used to have a somewhat stringent barrier to entry if you wanted to be a pro. Ask anyone that's ever had their work critiqued by a professional artist or editor. Editors would flat out tell you your work was bad, the anatomy was off, the women you drew weren't sexy enough, etc. Not saying there haven't always been bad writers and artists, God knows that's not true. But there was at least a semblance of quality control at the top. You could pick up a Marvel or DC or even an Image book and know the characters would look and act a certain way. The male heroes would generally be muscular, brave, and good looking. The women would be feminine, strong and probably have a great set of knockers. That standard changed once the editors became more concerned with things like body positivity and inclusion and started hiring Tumblr and Twitter freaks to write this shit. Now we have the "approved body type", "bisexual lighting", and art that would never have passed a portfolio review 20 years ago. Comparing a Marvel comic from the 90s-00s or even the early 2010s to the stuff they pump out now is night and day because the medium is still visual. You can blatantly see the quality of the art has gone down the shitter and there's not much you can do to disguise it.
 
I like how SJWs fucked comic books so hard in the ass it's literally only a matter of time until publishers like Marvel and DC, things that have been around for almost a century, go defunct.

My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
It wasn't them alone, but instead a series of bad decisions over course of decades. Comics have been circling the drain for a long time, and people were ringing alarm bells even in late 80s and early 90s before implosion became obvious. Most of these bad decisions were made in pursuit of short term profits at the expense of everything else. People hired in last decade and a half certainly accelerated the decline, maybe even to a level nearing 90s situation. This time we do not have as many good indie comics, but at least quality foreign imports are plentiful.

As to your question, it's because mainstream American comics were an easy target. Most staff and creatives at big two were desperate fanboys or people too incompetent to do equivalent work in other industries. People at the upper levels only cared about chasing a quick buck. Both groups would let anyone in if they serve their whims, and will give in to enough pressure to not rock the boat. Since mid 90s you could get in largely with some networking and buttering up big two employees the right way. Your skill only mattered if you were an artist but the bar was not very high compared to other industries.
 
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I like how SJWs fucked comic books so hard in the ass it's literally only a matter of time until publishers like Marvel and DC, things that have been around for almost a century, go defunct.

My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
The left is not trying to demoralize america by making capeshit woke. Culture is downstream from politics. SJWs are right that historically comic creators have leaned progressive to a-political. Many characters/series may have "right wing elements" but the number of consistently right wing comic creators is pretty small in the grand scheme of things (Steve Ditko, Dave Sim, Frank Miller, Chuck Dixon). The issue has never been politics but bad writing. Alan Moore is the second best comic writer regardless of what you think about his politics. Corporate comics have been going down the shitter since the 80s with trite, event driven melodrama. Any badly written political commentary is down stream from just bad writing. Comicsgate's issues with comics seem to be that they want to be fed the same slop they were fed for decades. Wake me up when EVS and his buddies instead of making shit like cyberfrog make actually quality content like From Hell, Cerebus, or a Contract with God. Bonafide Graphic Novels made when a prominent creator broke off from the big two.

On the doom saying with DC and Marvel, the money has been in merchandising since probably the 70s. When was the last time you saw someone was reading Archie comics? And guess what Archie is still around. If Archie can still be around you bet Spider-man and Batman will be okay.
 
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I like how SJWs fucked comic books so hard in the ass it's literally only a matter of time until publishers like Marvel and DC, things that have been around for almost a century, go defunct.

My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
Comics is the dorly guy who would date the ugly and deranged chick out of desperation.

Anyone talented and/or sane got a job on TV and movies, so comics hired some of the weakest links.
 
I like how SJWs fucked comic books so hard in the ass it's literally only a matter of time until publishers like Marvel and DC, things that have been around for almost a century, go defunct.

My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
I don't think comics were ever the number one target, just a side effect. The number one targets were the media and education system. Because of this all mainstream news stories, books, articles, are now more likely to have a progressive agenda and/or focus on women, minorities, LGBTQ+ etc. The old "ripped from the headlines" style of writing for TV, movies, and even comics will be packed with these issues as a result. But not every consumer is going to give a damn and this leads people who are fleeing these politics in comics and other entertainment right into the arms of grifting anti-SJW YouTubers. A lot of their predictions are wishful thinking, hopium like Doomcock's Star Wars rumors that never pan out. Impending doom is a story that sells, great clickbait to get the marks in the door to milk superchats or sell product. But in reality Marvel and DC publishing going completely defunct any time soon is kind of bullshit. Even IDW is still around despite years of videos about their imminent demise. I'll believe it when it happens.

Quick update on Warcampaign at the Ottawa Convoy protest, big numbers on the last stream and 1.5K new subs:
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I am very interested to see where this goes and if other Comicsgate lolcows start IRL streaming to mimic Ice Rosiedon's success.
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I don't think comics were ever the number one target, just a side effect. The number one targets were the media and education system. Because of this all mainstream news stories, books, articles, are now more likely to have a progressive agenda and/or focus on women, minorities, LGBTQ+ etc. The old "ripped from the headlines" style of writing for TV, movies, and even comics will be packed with these issues as a result. But not every consumer is going to give a damn and this leads people who are fleeing these politics in comics and other entertainment right into the arms of grifting anti-SJW YouTubers. A lot of their predictions are wishful thinking, hopium like Doomcock's Star Wars rumors that never pan out. Impending doom is a story that sells, great clickbait to get the marks in the door to milk superchats or sell product. But in reality Marvel and DC publishing going completely defunct any time soon is kind of bullshit. Even IDW is still around despite years of videos about their imminent demise. I'll believe it when it happens.

Quick update on Warcampaign at the Ottawa Convoy protest, big numbers on the last stream and 1.5K new subs:
View attachment 2948163
I am very interested to see where this goes and if other Comicsgate lolcows start IRL streaming to mimic Ice Rosiedon's success.
View attachment 2948176
Just wait till Warcampaign starts spamming Trudeau with rainbow dildos. That'll show him.
 
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I like how SJWs fucked comic books so hard in the ass it's literally only a matter of time until publishers like Marvel and DC, things that have been around for almost a century, go defunct.

My question is why we're comic books their number 1 target for destruction and the thing they did the most damage to?
Marvel and DC will never go defunct because they’re not real businesses, they’re the worldly incarnation of valuable IP. Disney and WB don’t EXPECT them to make money, and total comic book market is such a drop in the bucket compared to Disney/WB’s actual business ventures that even if they lost all of the money used to make comics, it would still be worth it to keep them around.

Straight up axing Marvel or DC would be the ultimate show of lack of faith in the source material. And as long as they plan on continuing to make movies based on these characters, they will not do anything that might suggest to the public.
 
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Marvel and DC will never go defunct because they’re not real businesses, they’re the worldly incarnation of valuable IP. Disney and WB don’t EXPECT them to make money, and total comic book market is such a drop in the bucket compared to Disney/WB’s actual business ventures that even if they lost all of the money used to make comics, it would still be worth it to keep them around.

Straight up axing Marvel or DC would be the ultimate show of lack of faith in the source material. And as long as they plan on continuing to make movies based on these characters, they will not do anything that might suggest to the public.
But... but... but... They'd doing Shang Chi. Morbius. Craptain Marvel. They're doing also-rans, because they ran themselves out of the valuable characters, and they were such a success that they kind of laid the foundation of their own demise. You can't really re-cast Tony Stark, or Thor, or any of these guys who are/will age out. So they're digging deeper into Marvel lore and hitting the sewage lines.

DC can keep changing Batmans, because it's practically expected at this point.

The Multi-verse is their opportunity to reboot. Keep the younger actors, replace the older ones, maintain continuity. I wonder if they will be successful at it, or if they'll be doing Stilt Man and Tigra next year. lol
 
But... but... but... They'd doing Shang Chi. Morbius. Craptain Marvel. They're doing also-rans, because they ran themselves out of the valuable characters, and they were such a success that they kind of laid the foundation of their own demise. You can't really re-cast Tony Stark, or Thor, or any of these guys who are/will age out. So they're digging deeper into Marvel lore and hitting the sewage lines.

DC can keep changing Batmans, because it's practically expected at this point.

The Multi-verse is their opportunity to reboot. Keep the younger actors, replace the older ones, maintain continuity. I wonder if they will be successful at it, or if they'll be doing Stilt Man and Tigra next year. lol
Marvel ain’t done with well-known characters yet, they have at least another decade to milk out of the X-men once they’re inevitably brought into the MCU.
 
But... but... but... They'd doing Shang Chi. Morbius. Craptain Marvel. They're doing also-rans, because they ran themselves out of the valuable characters, and they were such a success that they kind of laid the foundation of their own demise. You can't really re-cast Tony Stark, or Thor, or any of these guys who are/will age out. So they're digging deeper into Marvel lore and hitting the sewage lines.

DC can keep changing Batmans, because it's practically expected at this point.

The Multi-verse is their opportunity to reboot. Keep the younger actors, replace the older ones, maintain continuity. I wonder if they will be successful at it, or if they'll be doing Stilt Man and Tigra next year. lol
When Marvel will eventually ditch the MCU because it's more bombs than hits at one point, nothing will stop them from rebooting and re-imagining everything, but I agree we'll probably see a multiverse reboot attempt first.
We got 3 different Spiderman on the bigscreen in 20 years and the only one they complained about was Garfield's because his movies sucked. Heith Ledger is the patron saint of the Joker and while every subsequent Joker was compared to him Jared Leto's was rightfully laughed out of theaters while Joaquin Phoenix's was lauded. X-men also basically ran two series of movies in parallel. I don't think people will complain that much about young new faces and reimagined stories as long as the movies are good and the new actors can actually act not just be young.
 
Probably Dave Sim he is an utter loon but has an ear for dialog and an complete commitment to creative freedom.
Hard No!

Dave Sim had 100-some stellar issues of Cerebus, which is an incredible feat. At some point though it goes off the rail. Savage Dragon turning into hardcore pornography is, at least, an entertaining trainwreck. Cerebus is not an entertaining trainwreck, it is a sad fall from grace of an once talented cartoonist who completely lost it.

Also, he is responsible for everything you hate about the comicbook industry:
  1. Overlong storylines that lead to nowhere
  2. Pacing for the trade
  3. Pretentious plotlines that beg to be deep and literary
  4. Personal politics that took over the comicbook
  5. A series that should have ended around issue 200 got to 300 issues because creator had an LSD overdose and envisioned it as a 300-isssue long graphic novel
  6. Barcon and comicbook creators acting and partying as rock stars
  7. Was the main inspiration for Neil Gaiman's Sandman.
Which is funny, because every single SJW tries to be Dave Sim who is, and I kid you not, a far right fundamentalist lunatic that once made 4 arcs in his book just to write the phrase Women Read Minds Guys.
 
Hard No!

Dave Sim had 100-some stellar issues of Cerebus, which is an incredible feat. At some point though it goes off the rail. Savage Dragon turning into hardcore pornography is, at least, an entertaining trainwreck. Cerebus is not an entertaining trainwreck, it is a sad fall from grace of an once talented cartoonist who completely lost it.

Also, he is responsible for everything you hate about the comicbook industry:
  1. Overlong storylines that lead to nowhere
  2. Pacing for the trade
  3. Pretentious plotlines that beg to be deep and literary
  4. Personal politics that took over the comicbook
  5. A series that should have ended around issue 200 got to 300 issues because creator had an LSD overdose and envisioned it as a 300-isssue long graphic novel
  6. Barcon and comicbook creators acting and partying as rock stars
  7. Was the main inspiration for Neil Gaiman's Sandman.
Which is funny, because every single SJW tries to be Dave Sim who is, and I kid you not, a far right fundamentalist lunatic that once made 4 arcs in his book just to write the phrase Women Read Minds Guys.
Almost all of these can be summed up as plot vs story. If you go into Cerebus wanting a series of defined events and foreword momentum where the story closes to a period after the bad guy is gone. A key motif of Cerebus is Cerebus the character's desire for happiness putting him in conflict with the main narrative demanding he do things. Its a satire of traditional heroic tales where the central hero is utterly ignorant of everything going on around him and a passive actor rather then an active one. Writing for the trade is an entirely neutral thing. Dave Sim pulls it off as he can actually fill the spaces with interesting stuff vs modern comics where its filler fights and bad dialog punctuated by fight scenes. One of my major issues with Tom King's writing is that he seems to choose 12 issue minis, and since Tom King is working for DC he has to fill the books with content that is reader/corporate friendly rather then really go to interesting places.

As I have been saying the problem was never politics or "trying to be deep" its shit writing and plotting. The mainstream superhero form doesn't mesh well with politics as its too stupid and infantile, this conclusion was reached on paper in Grant Morrison's Animal Man and Watchmen. It is why Alan Moore covered politics in From Hell but not in Tom Strong and Supreme. Again my original point, if your issue with modern comics is that they have "politics" and are "trying to hard to be deep" then sorry you are missing the point. Any piece of adult art worth a damn will probably have some politics and guess what "try to be deep". A little bit of trash culture is fine in small doses, but modern fandom types just seem to wanna read and watch the same crap they did when they were twelve and never grow up. I will just drop this quote from Matt Dow at the Moment of Cerebus blog:
And the Master-'gaters SAY they want better comics. Okay, make better comics.

"But we're just fans, we don't make the comics..."

Okay, but ya know Previews? That bigger than the phonebook thing at your local comic shop? Well, in the back, past the premier publishers, are hundreds of little publishers. And they're publishing ALL kinds of things. So instead of bitchin' about how Marvel and DC are RUINING your childhood by publishing whatever, grow up and find a NEW thing.

Because let me tell you what I really want from EVS and the other Master-'gater creators.

I want EVS to do A Contract With God.

"Wait Matt, you want EVS to do Will Eisner's A Contract With God? Like redraw it?"

No, I want EVS and his fellows to do THEIR A Contract With God.

See, one of EVS's big ideas, is that Marvel and DC are doing a disservice to their fans, by not giving them what they want. Mind you, that's a STUPID idea.

"Gee, Matt, that's kinda insulting..."

Yes, yes it is. So's the idea that Fan-service is the way to run a railroad.

See, back in the day what the fans wanted from Will Eisner was more The Spirit. And in EVS's worldview, Eisner should have given fans what they wanted and spent the rest of his life writing and drawing The Spirit.

Except, Will Eisner didn't want to do The Spirit. Will Eisner wanted to do A Contract With God. Which is one of the greatest graphic novels of all time. Probably Eisner's best work.

But again, not what the mob wanted.

But by that point in his career, Eisner had the financial freedom to do what HE wanted, not what the FANS wanted. And so he created the greatest G__ D___ graphic novel of all time. Because he could.

I will concede that Dave is a horrible person, which is why I find it so funny that religious Dave is considered so evil by the comics community for writing mean words. Feminist Dave Sim was a womanizing piece of shit, so him being sexist in his own house is frankly better for women then him crawling around cons for poon.
 
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Looks nice on him doesn't it.

Speaking of @Tyne, we all love him of course, but did any of you guys ever wonder what it sounds like inside the torn brain of Liam Gray?

Well wonder no more!

Presenting the music of Liam's mind:
 
@Cool kitties club I would say that the first Cerebus volume is great, High Society and Jaka's Story are excellent, Church and State is great but plodding a bit.
Then you get into Melmoth and DS is just huffing his farts. "Oh, I have ANOTHER Oscar Wilde standin, I am so LITERARY! COMICS CAN BE LITERARY GAIZ!!!".
Flight to Minds is Dave Sim masturbating his ego over pages and pages.
Guys and Rick's Story actually hit something interesting, they get that French film movie type of story where it is people talking to eachother. Going Home and Form and Void are just Dave Sim filling issues to hit 300 while also adding all those LITERARY STUFF GAIZ.

Later and Last Days were also masturbatory, except for the final issue. The ending of Cerebus feels like that issue of High Society that took 20 pages to explain a joke: It is 6000 pages to hit a punchline that we knew from issue one but gosh damnit it hit like a ton of bricks.

I won't say that DS is not a great cartoonist. He is. But Alan Moore, for all his looniness, actually made comics that delivered. DS did one that tried to be all 20 comics Alan Moore made at once.
 
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@Cool kitties club (reply bug)

Therein lies the main problem: hardcore comic fans don’t want good stories, they want to keep spending money on X-men so that they can have a nice collection of sequential numbers to satisfy their autism. Or rather, they would prefer good stories, but the absence of such isn’t going to get in the way of their desire for consooming muh complete run.

It’s a problem I’ve noticed in general with Western fandom/media - this inability to let a story fucking end. It’s almost as if there’s this fear that you can’t enjoy something if you don’t keep consooming new media, even if it’s utter garbage that bears zero resemblance to the story you once loved. It’s not just comic books, you see it with movies and TV as well.

My hypothesis for why this doesn’t occur (as frequently) in anime/manga is that their entire business model is ultimately merchandise-driven - anime literally only exists to drive people to read the manga and buy the figures. In the West, it’s driven much more by the sale of the media itself, be it movie tickets or Blu-Ray box sets or streaming service subscriptions. Not to imply that they don’t have merch, but it’s just a fundamentally different business model - nobody is gonna say “oh, they stopped making Star Wars movies because the merch didn’t sell”, it’s always gonna be “oh, they stopped making Star Wars movies because they fucking bombed”.
 
There is a board called Sperg about Comic books here where more serious comic book talk ought to be. I would go interrupt their current X-Men continuity talk if you want to keep up the conversation of the best writer etc (also there is one for Anime/Manga with a NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING! warning). Unless you want to talk about the rest of that Moment of Cerebus blog post where Edwin Boyette gayopped Dave Sim into talking about grooming and then collaborated with Renfamous in getting Dave Sim cancelled by Ethan Van Sciver's supposed anti-cancel-culture movement way back in late 2018/early 2019. That part is relevant to this board, but more like 3 years and many pages ago on it. Comicsgate really is not about discussing comics in any real way apart from outrage clickbait and finding declining sales numbers. In fact there are many active comicsgate followers on Twitter and YouTube who have admitted they never bought a comic book at all before they followed it. Sure you could corner an ex pro like Graham Nolan or Mike Baron away from the autistic shit show and get them to talk seriously about the craft but that's not where it's at for the views and the superchats. In the context of this Kiwi thread the part worth talking about is the embarrasing exploits of manchildren on the internet. People who got their morality from capeshit and fancy themselves a Lex Luthor or Batman of nerds talking on Twitter or YouTube.

Speaking of that, here's an update on the big time views Warcampaign is getting on their Ottawa Freedom Convoy content. One broke 100K and they got more subs this week than they ever had from CG, but will they be able to keep this up after this stops being a hot news story?
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Matt Dow is a supreme faggot. I don't even know who he is but the quote @Cool kitties club dropped has me picturing some skinny-fat douche in retro frames and a t-shirt with way-too-short sleeves foaming at the mouth while defending mainstream consoomerism and hurling insults like master-'gater because readers don't want to invest in a fictional world where every woman looks like Megan Rapinoe.

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