- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
Is RWBY somewhat decent again or is still a fucking flaming mess of a shitshow?
I swear, the only good thing about this garbage is the porn.
I swear, the only good thing about this garbage is the porn.
RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future
- Thread starter Fougaro
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2019
Not only does it still suck major ass, it's inspired speds to write their own fanfiction that is equally trash but in a differently shaped dumpster.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Still an ever raging dumpster fire but right now it's on an indefinite hiatus. Previous posts are all about a retard with a lesbian fetish and his circle of nonces trying to rewrite RWBY by cramming Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts inside the broken plot.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
Smith Wesson
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2021
So speaking of character designs, which one should we talk about in-depth first? Both on the retarded ideas and which rejected concepts for the same character ended up better.
Sleazy Car Salesman
Believe me when I say that I will take your money
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 27, 2021
When did you stop watching? Actually never mind, that doesn't matter. It's gotten worse.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
I think it's better to start with Team RWBYJNRQRN since their the main characters.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2013
If you're asking this, then what rock have you lived under and can I join you?
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Alright here's my two cents on the designs proper again then.
Ruby Rose:
Whatever was particularly good and memorable about her design besides the cape is obliterated from existence with this design. This doesn't feel like Ruby Rose, the girl that wants to become a huntsman and slay grim like her mother. If anything this make her feel like Ruby Rose, the underaged prostitute from Victorian England/Oregon Trail America. They should've opted to make her look more and more like a hunter, her design should be something like a super diet Bloodborne or Witcher character but with elements of her Fairytale motif. You know so the design actually symbolizes how she's growing up and started taking her ambition and profession more seriously. On a sidenote though, I highly doubt that they can even pull my suggestion off properly without it becoming Grimderpy.
Weiss Schnee:
I said this with her design time and time again, how hard is it for these depraved mongoloids to grasp the concept of elegance and white? Everything wrong with Weiss' design V4 onwards has been amplified up to 11 here, the poor attempts to integrate the red in her dresses are incredibly out of place because the blue had drowned out the white, her supposed main color. There is no elegance to be found here and the main dress itself look like it was made by the lead designer of Final Fantasy because it looks bland and unremarkable without the esoteric amounts of belts. What they should've done is to improve upon her V1 outfit, even adding some influence from her alternate outfit, as the saying goes; if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Blake Belladonna:
(Thank you Rhymes for a better quality image)
This design reeks of Final Fantasy the most, this is supposed to be a guard uniform and according to Raymond was designed with practicality in mind, and I say that he and Mupa shat the bed incredibly hard in that aspect as well as implementing hints Blake's general Motif and fighting style in the outfit, There is no way that someone who's main fighting style is heavy in evasion and quick retaliation would wear this thing, it's incredibly detrimental even in simple battle maneuvers like foot work, not to mention that the enemy will take every opportunity to grab those tailcoats. This outfit is more in line to a parade garment rather than that of a proper guard uniform meant to be worn on patrol.
as a comparison, here is the standard uniform of the Swiss guard:
Simple, Noticeable, and let's the wearer fight without detriment. This getup is also literally very easy to translate into the rule of cool too. If they really want to stick with the Blake guard outfit, all they have to do is to take some influence with the layout of the attire and then mix it with a more eastern and kunoichi motif. The armor can fit in the design but it's more optional than mandatory, just make the pauldrons look a lot lighter and have the breastplate be a bit more lenient towards sexy rather than practical. Basically when it comes to her, just weeb the outfit up and help themselves with a helpful serving of rule of cool.
Yang Xiao Long:
As I said before, V5 outfit but worse. Wanna know why Brown was not an issue with Yang's V1 design? Simple, the brown was a very light shade, she showed more skin, and the hair, the undershirt, and other details did a lot to pop out the Yellow. But Raymond and Mupa were like; naw, let's stick to biker chic, because she's the muscle and she gotta look tough. The phrase "keep it simple, stupid" just hits the nail when it comes on tackling her design but FRWBY somehow just felt the need to go overboard with unnecessary details and accessories on her design.
I'll do JNR next time since RWBY alone makes me feel physically exhausted typing. Also will probably post RWBY character redesign artfaggotry once I finally finish an unrelated drawing.
Ruby Rose:
Whatever was particularly good and memorable about her design besides the cape is obliterated from existence with this design. This doesn't feel like Ruby Rose, the girl that wants to become a huntsman and slay grim like her mother. If anything this make her feel like Ruby Rose, the underaged prostitute from Victorian England/Oregon Trail America. They should've opted to make her look more and more like a hunter, her design should be something like a super diet Bloodborne or Witcher character but with elements of her Fairytale motif. You know so the design actually symbolizes how she's growing up and started taking her ambition and profession more seriously. On a sidenote though, I highly doubt that they can even pull my suggestion off properly without it becoming Grimderpy.
Weiss Schnee:
I said this with her design time and time again, how hard is it for these depraved mongoloids to grasp the concept of elegance and white? Everything wrong with Weiss' design V4 onwards has been amplified up to 11 here, the poor attempts to integrate the red in her dresses are incredibly out of place because the blue had drowned out the white, her supposed main color. There is no elegance to be found here and the main dress itself look like it was made by the lead designer of Final Fantasy because it looks bland and unremarkable without the esoteric amounts of belts. What they should've done is to improve upon her V1 outfit, even adding some influence from her alternate outfit, as the saying goes; if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Blake Belladonna:
(Thank you Rhymes for a better quality image)
This design reeks of Final Fantasy the most, this is supposed to be a guard uniform and according to Raymond was designed with practicality in mind, and I say that he and Mupa shat the bed incredibly hard in that aspect as well as implementing hints Blake's general Motif and fighting style in the outfit, There is no way that someone who's main fighting style is heavy in evasion and quick retaliation would wear this thing, it's incredibly detrimental even in simple battle maneuvers like foot work, not to mention that the enemy will take every opportunity to grab those tailcoats. This outfit is more in line to a parade garment rather than that of a proper guard uniform meant to be worn on patrol.
as a comparison, here is the standard uniform of the Swiss guard:
Simple, Noticeable, and let's the wearer fight without detriment. This getup is also literally very easy to translate into the rule of cool too. If they really want to stick with the Blake guard outfit, all they have to do is to take some influence with the layout of the attire and then mix it with a more eastern and kunoichi motif. The armor can fit in the design but it's more optional than mandatory, just make the pauldrons look a lot lighter and have the breastplate be a bit more lenient towards sexy rather than practical. Basically when it comes to her, just weeb the outfit up and help themselves with a helpful serving of rule of cool.
Yang Xiao Long:
As I said before, V5 outfit but worse. Wanna know why Brown was not an issue with Yang's V1 design? Simple, the brown was a very light shade, she showed more skin, and the hair, the undershirt, and other details did a lot to pop out the Yellow. But Raymond and Mupa were like; naw, let's stick to biker chic, because she's the muscle and she gotta look tough. The phrase "keep it simple, stupid" just hits the nail when it comes on tackling her design but FRWBY somehow just felt the need to go overboard with unnecessary details and accessories on her design.
I'll do JNR next time since RWBY alone makes me feel physically exhausted typing. Also will probably post RWBY character redesign artfaggotry once I finally finish an unrelated drawing.
Last edited:
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Something, something, Adel Aka and VexxedViewer said it first without the snarky memes and presented their argument better, days after Volume fucking 7 finished... Also Marey Cagle Podcast tackled the issue after V7 as well.
Edit: Changed V8 to V7
Last edited:
Mega Black
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2022
I didn't think it was possible to create designs so much worse than in the original show, but by God the sketchy speds found a way. I know I said Raymond shouldn't shit on people giving him stuff for free... but, well, suffice it to say that if these designs got handed to me I'd have a hard time resisting the urge to scratch my mouth with the barrel of a shotgun.
I also found it really funny how he's taken these minor characters, changed them completely, blown up their importance and relationships, then reintroduced them under the guise of fixing the character. Complete fanfic writer mentality, for all the shit Miles has gotten (rightfully) for treating Jaune as his personal self-insert, by Celtic, it's hilarious to see history repeating itself with his garbage rewrite. I 'fixed' the character by changing her design, purpose within the narrative, relationships with all the characters, getting overtly attached, stapling bad anime tropes onto her even when they don't make sense or show up, etc; Like fuck dude, you sure did, fixed her so good it's not even the same character!
I remember him talking about it when he first started too, about how he wanted to keep as close to the original show as possible as justification for why he wasn't throwing the plot and story-elements introduced out wholesale.
I also found it really funny how he's taken these minor characters, changed them completely, blown up their importance and relationships, then reintroduced them under the guise of fixing the character. Complete fanfic writer mentality, for all the shit Miles has gotten (rightfully) for treating Jaune as his personal self-insert, by Celtic, it's hilarious to see history repeating itself with his garbage rewrite. I 'fixed' the character by changing her design, purpose within the narrative, relationships with all the characters, getting overtly attached, stapling bad anime tropes onto her even when they don't make sense or show up, etc; Like fuck dude, you sure did, fixed her so good it's not even the same character!
I remember him talking about it when he first started too, about how he wanted to keep as close to the original show as possible as justification for why he wasn't throwing the plot and story-elements introduced out wholesale.
I'm curious, sorry if you said so before, do you have any copies of the script? It might be a kick to read. He's so retarded he thinks he's invented a new system of script-writing. A 'narrative essay' right? I can only imagine how autistic it is.
Sleazy Car Salesman
Believe me when I say that I will take your money
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 27, 2021
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
Yep, and in the last stream I linked, he and Mupa (one of the character designers), got REALLY defensive when asked about treating Vernal and Shiloh as Mupa's OCs. As for Celtic himself, his character that gets brought up is Roman Torchwick, who survives getting eaten in V3.
Mega Black
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2022
Yeah, Roman being his self-insert is especially obvious. Way to take one of the few good scenes of RWBY, Torchwick's untimely death, and completely ruin it in order to carry him on into a plot that no longer needs him. Don't even get me started on how retarded it is to make him Ozpin's new vessel. Gotta make my favorite character more important! Them getting bent out of shape by the critique is just evidence that the critique hits too close to home.
One of Torchwick's better elements as a character is that he was around long enough to be good, then died before the crew could ruin him forever. Well, I haven't read that tie-in book yet so maybe they have, but still.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2021
Aight. I see what I can do. I'll do a little bit a day, and no more. I will also only be doing the V five because A, that's what I have the doc for and b, I don't drink, and this is the kind of thing people shouldn't do sober.
The bit I'll be critiquing today. If the lack of paragraphs bother you, get fucked. Formatting getting eaten is only a problem when it's -my- stories. Rhymes posted a link to the google doc, find it if you really want the paragraphs.
We open on darkness, muffled sounds echoing in our ears; distant combat, screams of terror, rushing wind and nearby explosions, all drowned by the shadows. And then, a hand emerges, wearing a partially dissolved glove layered in flickering green aura. Tendrils of darkness lap at the hand, trailing dry, acidic scars in the skin before it’s completely obscured again. A moment later a face emerges, struggling against the living ink; it’s Roman, panicked, angered, and scrabbling desperately to escape the haze, his limbs pulling free for a second only to be dragged back in, a new trail of scars like chemical burns etched into his body. We see that in one of his hands is his cane , and as the tendrils begin to lap at his face, he squeezes his eyes shut and pulls the trigger.
The darkness around him explodes in a flash of red and we finally cut to outside, where the Griffin that had eaten him is limply flying away from the airship it had been kicked into, having burst out of the side. A moment later it explodes from the inside out and we see Roman hurtle to the ground, his aura flickering from the slow dissolve on his body and the sheer force of the explosion in such close proximity. His cane shatters from the strain and it can be seen that his signature coat has been almost completely devoured, leaving him in only the tattered remains of his shirt, pants and shoes.
As his hat flies off into the night, Roman sees the approaching ground below and has no time to react as his body meets it. He slams into it, his aura breaks completely and he passes out from the shock. Moments pass before a golden glow flashes beneath his eyelids. His eyes open, this time a much softer green, greyer in color. Wordlessly, he stands, and he limps his way from the battlefield. The camera pans down to the broken cane, and as it fades to black, we’re given a title card telling us that this is taking place eleven months prior to the present at the Fall of Beacon.
The camera cuts back to Roman jolting awake in an emergency shelter in a Vale gymnasium, one among dozens of people who have taken refuge there. He sits up and quietly takes stock of the situation, including his injuries and the people around him. With a grimace at the scars on his arms and the tattered state of his clothing, he tries to stand before realizing he’s been chained to the bed with handcuffs. A glint of panic crosses his face until he realizes that the people around him are either too busy taking care of the injured or too injured to care about him being awake. Gritting his teeth, Roman dislocates his thumb, slips free of the handcuffs, stands up, relocates his thumb and walks his way to the door… through which one of the emergency workers walks leading two Atlesian guards.
The worker points at Roman, and the guards waste no time moving to apprehend him. Roman scowls and moves towards the set of doors on the other side of the gym, breaking into a sprint and knocking medical equipment into the paths of the men chasing him. The chase is brief, as the minute Roman gets outside, he’s back in his element of Vale’s streets, and he vanishes into an alleyway. We see him leaning against a brick wall, catching his breath as the guards incorrectly choose to follow the main thoroughfare, giving Roman his moment to breath and fully escape.
He leaves, and we transition to him arriving at an apartment door, and when he reaches for the keys, he realizes he’s left them in his coat… which has now been dissolved. Rolling his eyes, he kicks open the door and walks in to what is presumably a safehouse apartment. Unfortunately, it’s not much of a safehouse anymore because one of the walls has been blown open during the attack, leaving the main room partially exposed to the street outside. Roman looks at it with defeat and moves on to do what he came here to do; clean up and get a fresh set of threads.
Opening the closet of the bedroom, there’s a group of outfits set aside for him and a group for Neo, and he lingers looking at her side of the closet before taking his clothes and closing the door. In the bathroom he tries the shower, only for nothing but gunk to leave the pipes. Resigned to not getting a proper shower, he changes clothes… and hears a voice, seemingly from somewhere else in the apartment. With the first word he’s muttered this whole time, Roman calls out for the person, checking every corner of the place and threatening to beat them within an inch of their life if they’ve stolen anything. Instead, he hears noises coming from within the bathroom. Returning, he hears the voice again while looking towards the mirror.
This is where he’s blindsided by the bold mental proclamation of “Hello, I’m Professor Ozpin.” Roman slams himself into the wall behind him, breath rapid. He asks where the voice is coming from and Ozpin tells him he’s inside Roman’s mind. Roman doesn’t believe him and is quick to scour the bathroom and his clothes for hidden speakers. Finding none, Ozpin asks if he’s satisfied, and of course Roman isn’t, there has to be some better explanation for it. Ozpin muses that his attitude is very ungrateful for the person who saved his life, and when Roman asks, Oz explains he was the one who took control of Roman’s body and brought him to the field shelter.
Roman is furious at that, since that almost ended with him getting arrested again, and Ozpin apologizes for that. He does exactly get a choice who he ends up in the mind of, and he had no way to know he was inside Roman’s head. All he knew at the time is that his new host had passed out in the middle of a battlefield and was injured. Ultimately, getting arrested a second time would have been preferrable to being eaten, wouldn’t it? Roman tells Oz to spend a couple of weeks locked up inside Ironwood’s prison carrier and then talk to him about what would be preferrable.
Ozpin turns that around on Roman by asking him to spend eternities hopping bodies with little control over what they do. For emphasis he moves one of Roman’s arms, though it’s sluggish and unwieldy. Roman is horrified as his hand moves of its own accord, and he’s quick to use his other hand to restrain it. Ozpin comments that demonstration was about the peak of what he can do, and even that much is dwindling quickly as their motor functions begin to fuse; short of Roman ceding control directly, Ozpin will be powerless to do anything with Roman’s body.
Roman collapses on the remains of the apartment’s couch before acknowledging, with no small level of disbelief, that someone else really is in his head. Ozpin agrees it was quite the surprise when it first happened to him, and the weight of the implications might be more so; the world is at stake from a grave threat, and Ozpin has been fighting for centuries to stop the threat from succeeding. Roman has the distinguished honor to be the next in a long-line of hosts destined to fight that threat and keep all of Remnant safe. Ozpin notes that it could be quite the adjustment period for Roman, but he’s sure that by the time they link up with Ozpin’s allies, Ozpin’s presence will begin to feel like second nature.
Roman waves that off, saying it’s only an adjustment period so much as Oz remains in his head; he happens to enjoy the luxury of his own mind and doesn’t intend to give up real estate that’s rightfully his. He doesn’t know how Oz got in his head, but once he finds Neo they’ll go to a shrink or a priest or something and find a way to kick Oz out.
Ozpin is actually taken aback by Roman’s brazen reply and is quiet for just a moment before asserting Roman doesn’t quite understand the situation. Roman cuts Oz off, stating that there’s some old fart in his head trying to tell him what to do; extort enough corporate suits and you get to know the type. Roman explains he’s just gotten out of a rather sticky business… entanglement and he’s not keen on entering another one. Whenever Roman gets Ozpin out of his head, the ghost can go haunt someone else and bring his ‘save the world’ nonsense with him.
Ozpin replies that it doesn’t work that way; there’s no way for Ozpin to leave, outside of Roman dying. Like it or not, they’re stuck together. Roman stands and cracks his neck, commenting he’s always found a way to be the exception the rule; you don’t become a criminal mastermind without a little grit, determination and creativity. But his first priority is Neo, and in that he will not budge. Ozpin, capitulating as a show of good faith, says he’ll help Roman look for his partner, and in exchange perhaps he’ll humor the old man’s plans. Roman approaches the door to the apartment, resting a hand on the broken handle before replying tentatively that he might listen. Might, but Oz shouldn’t count on it. And with that, Roman is out the door.
The darkness around him explodes in a flash of red and we finally cut to outside, where the Griffin that had eaten him is limply flying away from the airship it had been kicked into, having burst out of the side. A moment later it explodes from the inside out and we see Roman hurtle to the ground, his aura flickering from the slow dissolve on his body and the sheer force of the explosion in such close proximity. His cane shatters from the strain and it can be seen that his signature coat has been almost completely devoured, leaving him in only the tattered remains of his shirt, pants and shoes.
As his hat flies off into the night, Roman sees the approaching ground below and has no time to react as his body meets it. He slams into it, his aura breaks completely and he passes out from the shock. Moments pass before a golden glow flashes beneath his eyelids. His eyes open, this time a much softer green, greyer in color. Wordlessly, he stands, and he limps his way from the battlefield. The camera pans down to the broken cane, and as it fades to black, we’re given a title card telling us that this is taking place eleven months prior to the present at the Fall of Beacon.
The camera cuts back to Roman jolting awake in an emergency shelter in a Vale gymnasium, one among dozens of people who have taken refuge there. He sits up and quietly takes stock of the situation, including his injuries and the people around him. With a grimace at the scars on his arms and the tattered state of his clothing, he tries to stand before realizing he’s been chained to the bed with handcuffs. A glint of panic crosses his face until he realizes that the people around him are either too busy taking care of the injured or too injured to care about him being awake. Gritting his teeth, Roman dislocates his thumb, slips free of the handcuffs, stands up, relocates his thumb and walks his way to the door… through which one of the emergency workers walks leading two Atlesian guards.
The worker points at Roman, and the guards waste no time moving to apprehend him. Roman scowls and moves towards the set of doors on the other side of the gym, breaking into a sprint and knocking medical equipment into the paths of the men chasing him. The chase is brief, as the minute Roman gets outside, he’s back in his element of Vale’s streets, and he vanishes into an alleyway. We see him leaning against a brick wall, catching his breath as the guards incorrectly choose to follow the main thoroughfare, giving Roman his moment to breath and fully escape.
He leaves, and we transition to him arriving at an apartment door, and when he reaches for the keys, he realizes he’s left them in his coat… which has now been dissolved. Rolling his eyes, he kicks open the door and walks in to what is presumably a safehouse apartment. Unfortunately, it’s not much of a safehouse anymore because one of the walls has been blown open during the attack, leaving the main room partially exposed to the street outside. Roman looks at it with defeat and moves on to do what he came here to do; clean up and get a fresh set of threads.
Opening the closet of the bedroom, there’s a group of outfits set aside for him and a group for Neo, and he lingers looking at her side of the closet before taking his clothes and closing the door. In the bathroom he tries the shower, only for nothing but gunk to leave the pipes. Resigned to not getting a proper shower, he changes clothes… and hears a voice, seemingly from somewhere else in the apartment. With the first word he’s muttered this whole time, Roman calls out for the person, checking every corner of the place and threatening to beat them within an inch of their life if they’ve stolen anything. Instead, he hears noises coming from within the bathroom. Returning, he hears the voice again while looking towards the mirror.
This is where he’s blindsided by the bold mental proclamation of “Hello, I’m Professor Ozpin.” Roman slams himself into the wall behind him, breath rapid. He asks where the voice is coming from and Ozpin tells him he’s inside Roman’s mind. Roman doesn’t believe him and is quick to scour the bathroom and his clothes for hidden speakers. Finding none, Ozpin asks if he’s satisfied, and of course Roman isn’t, there has to be some better explanation for it. Ozpin muses that his attitude is very ungrateful for the person who saved his life, and when Roman asks, Oz explains he was the one who took control of Roman’s body and brought him to the field shelter.
Roman is furious at that, since that almost ended with him getting arrested again, and Ozpin apologizes for that. He does exactly get a choice who he ends up in the mind of, and he had no way to know he was inside Roman’s head. All he knew at the time is that his new host had passed out in the middle of a battlefield and was injured. Ultimately, getting arrested a second time would have been preferrable to being eaten, wouldn’t it? Roman tells Oz to spend a couple of weeks locked up inside Ironwood’s prison carrier and then talk to him about what would be preferrable.
Ozpin turns that around on Roman by asking him to spend eternities hopping bodies with little control over what they do. For emphasis he moves one of Roman’s arms, though it’s sluggish and unwieldy. Roman is horrified as his hand moves of its own accord, and he’s quick to use his other hand to restrain it. Ozpin comments that demonstration was about the peak of what he can do, and even that much is dwindling quickly as their motor functions begin to fuse; short of Roman ceding control directly, Ozpin will be powerless to do anything with Roman’s body.
Roman collapses on the remains of the apartment’s couch before acknowledging, with no small level of disbelief, that someone else really is in his head. Ozpin agrees it was quite the surprise when it first happened to him, and the weight of the implications might be more so; the world is at stake from a grave threat, and Ozpin has been fighting for centuries to stop the threat from succeeding. Roman has the distinguished honor to be the next in a long-line of hosts destined to fight that threat and keep all of Remnant safe. Ozpin notes that it could be quite the adjustment period for Roman, but he’s sure that by the time they link up with Ozpin’s allies, Ozpin’s presence will begin to feel like second nature.
Roman waves that off, saying it’s only an adjustment period so much as Oz remains in his head; he happens to enjoy the luxury of his own mind and doesn’t intend to give up real estate that’s rightfully his. He doesn’t know how Oz got in his head, but once he finds Neo they’ll go to a shrink or a priest or something and find a way to kick Oz out.
Ozpin is actually taken aback by Roman’s brazen reply and is quiet for just a moment before asserting Roman doesn’t quite understand the situation. Roman cuts Oz off, stating that there’s some old fart in his head trying to tell him what to do; extort enough corporate suits and you get to know the type. Roman explains he’s just gotten out of a rather sticky business… entanglement and he’s not keen on entering another one. Whenever Roman gets Ozpin out of his head, the ghost can go haunt someone else and bring his ‘save the world’ nonsense with him.
Ozpin replies that it doesn’t work that way; there’s no way for Ozpin to leave, outside of Roman dying. Like it or not, they’re stuck together. Roman stands and cracks his neck, commenting he’s always found a way to be the exception the rule; you don’t become a criminal mastermind without a little grit, determination and creativity. But his first priority is Neo, and in that he will not budge. Ozpin, capitulating as a show of good faith, says he’ll help Roman look for his partner, and in exchange perhaps he’ll humor the old man’s plans. Roman approaches the door to the apartment, resting a hand on the broken handle before replying tentatively that he might listen. Might, but Oz shouldn’t count on it. And with that, Roman is out the door.
To start with, Roman basically gets the shit kicked out of him.
He escapes from the griffin, somehow, and then gets blow up with enough force that his clothes get shredded, then falls to the ground from a high altitude.
His aura shatters.
From a technical perspective, theres nothing -strictly- wrong here. But that doesn’t make it good writing. Actions -must- have consequences.
Roman passes out from the impact after his aura shattered, indicating that this is something serious. Then, seconds later, his eyes flash, he gets up and walks away.
Now, there are reasons for that, but the reasons simply aren’t good enough, and heres why.
Anyone who knows anything about the human body understands that there isn’t a concussion that isn’t serious. Romans clothes were shredded. He hit the ground, his aura broke. Then he gets up and walks away.
From a narrative perspective, Roman has been an evil, evil man. He lied, cheated, stole, and murdered his way across Vale, and was more than happy to participate in an attempted genocide. RWBY’s end for Roman was well thought out. It was poetic, and certainly a deserved comeuppance. By altering that, and allowing Roman to live, you remove that comeuppance. Right here, Roman needs to be hurt, and not a little either. He needs to be hurt -badly, and it needs to be visible. Bone revealing through a gash in the thigh, being unable to walk, an eye thats unsalvageable, there needs to be -something-, and it -must- affect Roman in that scene negatively.
And Roman just gets up and walks away.
It doesn’t matter if dear old Ozzy is now sharing Roman’s head, that’s a perk that roman can exploit, and it’s plot related. There needs to be a visible price for Roman’s actions prior to this volume.
Next scene.
Roman wakes up. He’s chained to a bed in a hospital full of refugees. He dislocates his thumb and slips his hand out.
My first problem?
The handcuffs.
Huntsman have been regularly shown to do feats of superhuman strength. Look at Ruby Rose. Look at Yang Xao long. Look at Nora Valkyrie. If you tell me that Roman Torchwick is not capable of simply breaking a pair of metal cuffs with his own strength, I will laugh in your face. These need to be special cuffs, and as that isn’t explicitly noted, I must assume they aren’t.
Which leads into the next problem.
>Roman wakes up.
They know who Roman is. They have him handcuffed. They are in a hospital. Roman is no longer the criminal mastermind of Vale, this is Roman, the man who helped kill thousands of innocent civilians, and gave a good go at getting the rest killed. He should be drugged, even if it means taking opioids away from civics. Don’t let him wake up.
Alternatively, execute him. “Rule of law” doesn’t exist right now because of Roman. They are in martial law territory. If they don’t have the resources to properly secure Roman, the smart thing to do is summary execution.
Lol @ anyone who thinks Ironwood wouldn’t do it in a heartbeat. The only problem Ironwood would have with that idea is that he can’t torture Torchwick for information first. But, if he had to choose between Roman escaping and the enemy being deprived an asset?
*click-bang*
As for the rest of it? It’s hard to explain, but these two just aren’t characterized right.
Roman learns that Ozpin is in his head now, and the man can puppet his body, and Celtic thinks the first response isn’t to flip his shit?
This is question-everything-I-know territory. Shattered worldview and all that jazz at -bare minimum-. Because the question is how is this even possible. Say Roman handwaves it away as ‘aura’ bullshit. Well, that’s still bodysnatcher territory, which would be distressing to anyone.
Instead of a freakout, Roman is, get this, pissed that Ozpin brought him to the hospital because it almost got him arrested again.
That’s right ladies and gentlemen, the first priority in this situation is the police, not the fact that he is possessed, nor the fact he is possessed by one of the most powerful men in vale, and his former enemy.
Celtic you hack, what the fuck are you doing? There is Drama with a capital D to be had here, and you have to be a faggot.
Roman should be in two modes, panic if you want to make Roman empathetic, or smooth as ice if you want to emphasize his intelligence, and the Torchwick charm that made him a fan favorite. You do neither. You make him -stupid-, and have him get into a spatfight about being locked up in a prison when Roman should be trying to charm Ozpin.
Of course, Roman isn’t the only problem child here.
Ozpin is just as bad. Throughout the show, Ozpin has been shown to be intelligent, ruthless, perceptive, and a master manipulator. Absolutely none of that is on display here, from the braindead introduction, to the snarky comments that would only alienate Torchwick, and of course ending with retarded rants about how being a host is an “Honor.”
The story clearly isn’t done cooking.
Ozpin should have an undercurrent of anger at Torchwick, something well concealed, but at the same time Ozpin should be doing his best to put those centuries of experience to good use, offering Torchwick things the man likes, such; power, money, and influence, all things Ozpin can readily supply in spades. And all Ozpin wants is a little cooperation.
Stuff happens after this, but it all stems from the same problems; these characters are written like they are morons when they need to be written like two compulsive liars trying to screw each other the most.
Torchwick threatens to exorcise Ozpin once he links up with Neo.
First off, this is not a situation where Roman is going to be threatening. Roman would schmooze and flatter until he was absolutely slow that exorcism was not only a possibility, which he doesn’t know at this time, but likely. Then the threats would happen. Second, once again, Roman got over Ozpin being in his head way too fucking quick, making scenes like this strain the SOD.
And Ozpin, I quote, was “actually taken aback by Roman’s brazen reply and is quiet for just a moment before asserting Roman doesn’t quite understand the situation.”
-Why-.
Why would this -ever- be out of character for Roman, theif extraordinaire? The idea that Roman would just bow his head and go along quietly is stupid. -No one- would go along quietly, period. The idea anyone would is stupid. Ozpin should’ve taken this as a -given-.
Idiot ball galore.
At the end of this scene, Roman says that Neo is his first priority, and Ozpin ‘capitulates’ as ‘a sign of good faith’, saying he’ll help Roman find Neo in hopes that Roman will help Ozpin afterwards.
Again, why?
Roman has made it clear that step number one after finding Neo is the exorcism of Ozpin. Even if that’s not possible, Ozpin has no reason to help Torchwick. Torchwick’s reputation is literally built on being a slimy, scheming, dishonorable criminal. He’s charming, but a total slimebag. Why is Ozpin appealing to Roman’s morals -period-?
Why is this master manipulator not taking advantage of Romans greed?
He escapes from the griffin, somehow, and then gets blow up with enough force that his clothes get shredded, then falls to the ground from a high altitude.
His aura shatters.
From a technical perspective, theres nothing -strictly- wrong here. But that doesn’t make it good writing. Actions -must- have consequences.
Roman passes out from the impact after his aura shattered, indicating that this is something serious. Then, seconds later, his eyes flash, he gets up and walks away.
Now, there are reasons for that, but the reasons simply aren’t good enough, and heres why.
Anyone who knows anything about the human body understands that there isn’t a concussion that isn’t serious. Romans clothes were shredded. He hit the ground, his aura broke. Then he gets up and walks away.
From a narrative perspective, Roman has been an evil, evil man. He lied, cheated, stole, and murdered his way across Vale, and was more than happy to participate in an attempted genocide. RWBY’s end for Roman was well thought out. It was poetic, and certainly a deserved comeuppance. By altering that, and allowing Roman to live, you remove that comeuppance. Right here, Roman needs to be hurt, and not a little either. He needs to be hurt -badly, and it needs to be visible. Bone revealing through a gash in the thigh, being unable to walk, an eye thats unsalvageable, there needs to be -something-, and it -must- affect Roman in that scene negatively.
And Roman just gets up and walks away.
It doesn’t matter if dear old Ozzy is now sharing Roman’s head, that’s a perk that roman can exploit, and it’s plot related. There needs to be a visible price for Roman’s actions prior to this volume.
Next scene.
Roman wakes up. He’s chained to a bed in a hospital full of refugees. He dislocates his thumb and slips his hand out.
My first problem?
The handcuffs.
Huntsman have been regularly shown to do feats of superhuman strength. Look at Ruby Rose. Look at Yang Xao long. Look at Nora Valkyrie. If you tell me that Roman Torchwick is not capable of simply breaking a pair of metal cuffs with his own strength, I will laugh in your face. These need to be special cuffs, and as that isn’t explicitly noted, I must assume they aren’t.
Which leads into the next problem.
>Roman wakes up.
They know who Roman is. They have him handcuffed. They are in a hospital. Roman is no longer the criminal mastermind of Vale, this is Roman, the man who helped kill thousands of innocent civilians, and gave a good go at getting the rest killed. He should be drugged, even if it means taking opioids away from civics. Don’t let him wake up.
Alternatively, execute him. “Rule of law” doesn’t exist right now because of Roman. They are in martial law territory. If they don’t have the resources to properly secure Roman, the smart thing to do is summary execution.
Lol @ anyone who thinks Ironwood wouldn’t do it in a heartbeat. The only problem Ironwood would have with that idea is that he can’t torture Torchwick for information first. But, if he had to choose between Roman escaping and the enemy being deprived an asset?
*click-bang*
As for the rest of it? It’s hard to explain, but these two just aren’t characterized right.
Roman learns that Ozpin is in his head now, and the man can puppet his body, and Celtic thinks the first response isn’t to flip his shit?
This is question-everything-I-know territory. Shattered worldview and all that jazz at -bare minimum-. Because the question is how is this even possible. Say Roman handwaves it away as ‘aura’ bullshit. Well, that’s still bodysnatcher territory, which would be distressing to anyone.
Instead of a freakout, Roman is, get this, pissed that Ozpin brought him to the hospital because it almost got him arrested again.
That’s right ladies and gentlemen, the first priority in this situation is the police, not the fact that he is possessed, nor the fact he is possessed by one of the most powerful men in vale, and his former enemy.
Celtic you hack, what the fuck are you doing? There is Drama with a capital D to be had here, and you have to be a faggot.
Roman should be in two modes, panic if you want to make Roman empathetic, or smooth as ice if you want to emphasize his intelligence, and the Torchwick charm that made him a fan favorite. You do neither. You make him -stupid-, and have him get into a spatfight about being locked up in a prison when Roman should be trying to charm Ozpin.
Of course, Roman isn’t the only problem child here.
Ozpin is just as bad. Throughout the show, Ozpin has been shown to be intelligent, ruthless, perceptive, and a master manipulator. Absolutely none of that is on display here, from the braindead introduction, to the snarky comments that would only alienate Torchwick, and of course ending with retarded rants about how being a host is an “Honor.”
The story clearly isn’t done cooking.
Ozpin should have an undercurrent of anger at Torchwick, something well concealed, but at the same time Ozpin should be doing his best to put those centuries of experience to good use, offering Torchwick things the man likes, such; power, money, and influence, all things Ozpin can readily supply in spades. And all Ozpin wants is a little cooperation.
Stuff happens after this, but it all stems from the same problems; these characters are written like they are morons when they need to be written like two compulsive liars trying to screw each other the most.
Torchwick threatens to exorcise Ozpin once he links up with Neo.
First off, this is not a situation where Roman is going to be threatening. Roman would schmooze and flatter until he was absolutely slow that exorcism was not only a possibility, which he doesn’t know at this time, but likely. Then the threats would happen. Second, once again, Roman got over Ozpin being in his head way too fucking quick, making scenes like this strain the SOD.
And Ozpin, I quote, was “actually taken aback by Roman’s brazen reply and is quiet for just a moment before asserting Roman doesn’t quite understand the situation.”
-Why-.
Why would this -ever- be out of character for Roman, theif extraordinaire? The idea that Roman would just bow his head and go along quietly is stupid. -No one- would go along quietly, period. The idea anyone would is stupid. Ozpin should’ve taken this as a -given-.
Idiot ball galore.
At the end of this scene, Roman says that Neo is his first priority, and Ozpin ‘capitulates’ as ‘a sign of good faith’, saying he’ll help Roman find Neo in hopes that Roman will help Ozpin afterwards.
Again, why?
Roman has made it clear that step number one after finding Neo is the exorcism of Ozpin. Even if that’s not possible, Ozpin has no reason to help Torchwick. Torchwick’s reputation is literally built on being a slimy, scheming, dishonorable criminal. He’s charming, but a total slimebag. Why is Ozpin appealing to Roman’s morals -period-?
Why is this master manipulator not taking advantage of Romans greed?
Your TLDR is that I only dip my toes into the RWBY fandom every once in awhile, and only to read fanfiction, but I still have a better grasp of Ozpin and Torchwick's character than Celtic.
Celtic's cardinal sin in this chapter?
The idiot ball, and literally everyone is carrying it. Celtic tries to mimic Roman's snark, but utterly fails because the most important thing about Roman isn't the snark, it's the mans intelligence. Roman is smart. Not as smart as Ozpin, but he's smart.
The problem with Roman is the same one Ozpin has.
These are intelligent characters who need to be written as intelligent. Celtic is nowhere near as smart as his inflated ego thinks he is, so he writes these characters as a pair of crayon munching speds.
Celtic is trying to make Torchwick look cool, and the entire world around him warps as a result. Ozpin acts in the stupidest way possible so that Torchwick has the chance to refuse to cooperate. Torchwick refuses to be smart because if he was, then there wouldn't be this scene where Torchwick told Ozpin, a well respected and powerful character no. Torchwick got hurt, but it's okay because it wasn't anything serious. Just some scars. 'Aren't scars cool guys?' And because of the lack of any tangible consequences, those scars are robbed of any emotional impact or character development they might've inspired, making them the narrative equivalent of filler. The Atlesian military is portrayed as a bunch of morons so Roman can escape.
What people like Celtic fail to understand is that in order for smart characters to be inspiring, they need to be smart. You win no awards for your 'genius' being the brightest sped among a group where the average IQ is significantly lower than room temp. They don't look cool, they look kinda sad, especially when I could go up to a random child and get someone who could manipulate better than these two did.
I also noted that both Roman and Ozpin were extremely unlikable. I shouldn't have to explain why one of the most charismatic characters in the show should be a problem.
Diagnosis?
Terminal Mary Sue. I recommend treating it by making sweet, sweet love to the business end of a shotgun.
Look, Celtic is a moron who doesn't understand how to tell a good story. He's in that sweet spot of good enough to know the basics, but not good enough to realize he's a hack.
Torchwick surviving V3 isn't a problem. It can be done. Celtic just doesn't understand how to do it.
I never particularly liked Ozpin the reincarnating genie period. Not the biggest fan of that plot device.
As for Torchwick... Torchwick was one of the few characters in RWBY that was genuinely charismatic. Celtic getting his grubby paws on the man is nothing short of a crime.
Last edited:
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
@The Periodic Gamer If this is your reaction to the first scenes of the first episode, I pray for you.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
@The Periodic Gamer I said this before in the thread, his writing reeks of Joss Whedon. Raymond's Roman is written awfully similar to Whedon's take on MCU Stark, all snark no smarts. It's pretty much the tell tale sign that this is the author's pet, the guy that cannot lose an arguement, the man that is always right, blah blah blah. It's a pitfall for newfags in writing who don't know any better.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2021
Being honest here, the only reason I really bother is because of the thread. If interest dies off, I'll stop. There is nothing about Celtic or his writing that interests me. The second I opened the document a few weeks ago, I realized that Celtic had nothing to teach me.
There's an awful lot that I can overlook so long as it's done competently. Authors pets are one of them.
Just from the first few scenes, I watched the world and the characters bend over backwards to hand Roman a win that Celtic still flubbed. I had low expectations, but I was still shocked by how Celtic undershot them by a mile.
Honestly, whenever I think of FRWBY, I alternate between disgust for Celtic, and his arrogance to consider himself a master of the craft, and disgust for his orbitors, for being so stupid as to worship such a talentless hack. I know that most people aren't trained to look for weaknesses in scenes the way I am, but even so, this is disappointing. This fandom has produced giants like Coeur, and we have this team of field rejects fondling Celtics balls with anime hearts in their eyes. The only thing that makes it pathetic instead of actively outrageous is that as far as I can tell, there is no one currently on the team that could be charitably called passable, let alone good.
They all deserve each other.
Artists who cannot draw, animators who cannot animatic, modelers who can't model, and a writer whos story fails the Mary Sue litmus test less than a thousand words in.
And they all have this idea in their heads that they are actually good at what they do. Meanwhile, anyone with talent looks at them with expressions of disgust.
It seems a fitting punishment for claiming mastery. Celtic gathered a collection of people who are every bit a master at their art as he is. And together, they amount to nothing more than disappointment and wasted potential.