General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[Marvin]

Marvin I’m sorry but I simply do not agree that all of those that have dysphoria have something of a mental illness, absolutely not the same thing, there is someone I even know who Is trans/non binary a woman who wants to be a male, and she/he is a perfectly legitimate and non mentally ill person. There are people, some kids and teens who just don’t feel right in their own bodies who want to transition and like I’ve mentioned before hope people will accept them as they slowly begin to transition. Very corny I understand, but they not mentally ill, they have legitimate body issues and don’t and will not grow up to be Screeching SJW transexual deviants and psychopaths who have ruined the image of the LGBT Community. They really are just innocent victims of circumstance, just want to transition quietly and I wish more people acknowledged that younger people suffer from this.

Point being when you refer to all of them as ‘mentally ill sociopaths with cum for brains’ you forget there are children as young as twelve who start to feel gender dysphoria, it comes across as cruel and ignorant when there are younger people involved. It makes you look less like someone with a controversial yet understandable view on a hot issue to just a full blown asshole shitting on the weak. That’s going too far.

I don't label it a mental illness to denigrate them. I definitely think that stigmatizing people with mental illnesses is a serious problem because it discourages them from seeking treatment.

But it's important to have that category. Mental illnesses do exist and they really fuck up people's lives and their ability to operate in society. When they do exist, they should be treated.

The thing is, it's not inherently a mental illness for a man to behave in a gender nonconforming way. A man being girly, a woman being manly. None of these are mental illnesses nor are they gender dysphoria.

The definition of gender dysphoria is (and I'm paraphrasing here) when someone believes so strongly they should've been the opposite sex (and experience to some extent the accompanying gender stereotypes) that it causes them such significant distress, that it inhibits their ability to function on a day-to-day basis.

That's the critical element. A man merely wanting to be a woman? Not gender dysphoria. A man being unable to get through day-to-day life because someone called him by his sex based pronouns? That's gender dysphoria and that's a mental illness.

Again, body dysmorphia is a good parallel for this idea with gender dysphoria. Anorexia and bulimia and other eating disorders are forms of body dysmorphia.

Someone wanting to be skinny? Not dysmorphia. Starving yourself to be skinny, fucking up your health? Dysmorphia, a mental illness.

 

[Resident Evil]

>Open kiwi Tran thread
>isnt complete shit, with people having a fair discussion over it instead of blowing up
Color me suprised and pretty happy about that.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

By definition, if you have something that harms the way you function or does not allow you to function properly, you have an illness. A mental illness is something which a person has that denegrades the ability of their brain to properly function, and as subjective as "properly" is, I think we can all probably understand that to be something along the lines of not having a mental breakdown at misgendering, that having suicidal feelings would not be proper function, that ongoing depression is not proper, etc.

Just going to put this out there, the issue of stigmatizing illnesses is a separate matter,

But trans people do have a mental illness, by definition. If they did not, if they did function properly, they would not need surgery or therapy. How you assist with their mental illness, and whether that is SRS or therapy, is another matter entirely, though I'm of the camp that therapy for these people, and not SRS, would do a hell of a lot more.

Semantics, anyways

 

[feedtheoctopus]

I notice whenever this topic comes up you guys get really obsessed with SRS for some reason even though it's a pretty small minority of trans people who get that or even want to get it. Also calling it "mutilation" is a bit much. I met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself. For all accounts and purposes modern SRS gives you something that is pretty much indistinguishable from an actual vagina. It's not like they're leaving you with this bloody, circular, wound where your dick and balls used to be. Ya know, they actually replace it with something. Whether it's something you want to stick your dick in is another matter.

 

[Ser Prize]

I notice whenever this topic comes up you guys get really obsessed with SRS for some reason even though it's a pretty small minority of trans people who get that or even want to get it. Also calling it "mutilation" is a bit much. I met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself. For all accounts and purposes modern SRS gives you something that is pretty much indistinguishable from an actual vagina. It's not like they're leaving you with this bloody, circular, wound where your dick and balls used to be. Ya know, they actually replace it with something. Whether it's something you want to stick your dick in is another matter.

You're fucking delusional. It is by all means butchery.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

You're fucking delusional. It is by all means butchery.

Now tell me your opinion on brazilian butt lifts

 

[Kerr Avon]

met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself.

Trying too hard there fren
,

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Trying too hard there fren
,

I just really don't see how this is fundamentally different than any other cosmetic surgery or understand why you guys are so obsessed with this. Also that you never mention SRS in regards to trans men. If I didn't know better I'd say it's because of a tremendously deep sexual insecurity and a profound terror of acknowledging your own innate femininity and actually has nothing to do with a surgical procedure almost nobody actually gets. Ya know, like your cock is the only thing holding together your fragile sense of identity and thus you recoil in horror at the notion that somebody might not want theirs, and the broader concept of it just being flesh with no inherent value terrifies you to the core because your only remaining sense of self worth comes from taking refuge in an increasingly incoherent and fragile form of masculinity that can only sustain itself by defining itself by what it isn't rather then what it IS.

Faggots, basically.

 

[Ser Prize]

Now tell me your opinion on brazilian butt lifts

Also butchery, but at least people acknolwedge it's cosmetic.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Also butchery, but at least people acknolwedge it's cosmetic.

Hey man if dat ass is butchery you can call me a carnivore, know what I'm saying? Yeah you know what I'm sayin', you rascal you.

Spoiler

I'm saying I want to put my face in their gigantic silicone cheeks and breathe in their farts

 

[Toluene Blood]

I met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself.

Did you verify this for yourself or did you just take their words at face value?

For all accounts and purposes modern SRS gives you something that is pretty much indistinguishable from an actual vagina. [...] Ya know, they actually replace it with something. Whether it's something you want to stick your dick in is another matter.

You are contradicting yourself. How can it be indistinguishable for all accounts and purposes while also being something men are unwilling to interact with? And again, have you verified this yourself, with objective criteria, or did you just take someone else's word for it?

Also that you never mention SRS in regards to trans men.

Now this is just outright lying. Neophalluses are discussed quite often in the SRS thread, which you would know if you ever opened it. So not only is SRS cosmetic in the sense that it is done for looks only, it doesn't even meet its own low standards because it doesn't even look as advertised.

when you refer to all of them as ‘mentally ill sociopaths with cum for brains’ you forget there are children as young as twelve who start to feel gender dysphoria

You say this like being 12 means that they can't be coombrained/psycho. Have you seen the things that 12 year olds (including biological girls) are writing on the internet these days? Go to the Fanfiction Horrors thread and find out.

Anyway, it's clearly a hyperbolic statement that you're responding to, and I can see that you are trying to be empathetic and "think of the children", but whenever you talk to one, you often find that they are responding to sexism with a child's literal-mindedness (e.g. I'm not as outdoorsy as the other boys, therefore I must be a (weak) girl; I'm not as makeup-obsessed as the other girls, therefore I must be a (brutish) boy). Adults with critical thinking skills will see that the sexism is the problem. Adults who believe kids too quickly, or are actually sexist themselves, encourage social/medical/surgical transition and end up enforcing sexist stereotypes.

Try a thought experiment - consider transracialism (e.g. those weeb kids who identify as Japanese, those white kids who identify as part-Native American) and trans-able-ism (identifying as disabled). If you don't believe in race or ability dysphoria then why believe in gender dysphoria?

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Did you verify this for yourself or did you just take their words at face value?

I poked it with a stick. No not that, I mean like a tree branch

Also you can look this up, you know that right?

You are contradicting yourself. How can it be indistinguishable for all accounts and purposes while also being something men are unwilling to interact with? And again, have you verified this yourself, with objective criteria, or did you just take someone else's word for it?

Huh? If you want to fuck a trans women you can go right ahead man, plenty of guys are into that shit.

Now this is just outright lying. Neophalluses are discussed quite often in the SRS thread, which you would know if you ever opened it. So not only is SRS cosmetic in the sense that it is done for looks only, it doesn't even meet its own low standards because it doesn't even look as advertised.

Something being "cosmetic" doesn't mean it's wrong, man. The human body isn't sacred, your baby diddling priest lied to you. It's profane. Repulsive. A ball of slime and flesh speeding towards entropy and rotting as it goes. Do whatever the fuck you want to your body, the only difference between it and hamburger is it's still throbbing.

Also don't kid yourself, whenever trans people come up nobody gives more then a passing thought to ftm types. Everywhere, not just here. Because if we're being honest all of the "controversy" here is really about men acting like women, which historically is something every culture flips its fucking shit about. Ya know, because small dicked insecure men make up like half of our society.

I can shittalk crazy tranny politics all day and night, but the obsession you people have with the state of their genitals speaks for itself.

 

[Vect]

Spoiler

I'm saying I want to put my face in their gigantic silicone cheeks and breathe in their farts

Gotta be a troll, but I'll sperg 'cause I saw the Adele thread.

Also if you like Brazilian silicon cheeks, buy ballons, some expired eggs and close that car door.

It's funny, how "sexual insecurity" is the classic attack, when, in fact, it is precisely our security in our gender and sexuality that causes this discomfort and disgust of watching people who have a claimed (and frequently misdiagnosed) physiological disconnect between their bodies and their minds (which generically used to be called mental...something) turn to this drug trough and demand for "cosmetic surgery."

Butt lifts is your comparison? Really? A successful butt lift still means I have a butt but have an easier time nicking tips from over the bar counter. A successful SRS means I no longer have a working penis, which, dysphoria aside, I could l have earned to really enjoy using (as I believe many trans-women do), and in it's place I have a mortar hole I have to stretch open every day for years against the bodies natural design like it's a massive bunch of half-inch rubber bands, with a small-to-moderate chance of never having decent sex again - all for the reward for hopefully being called ma'am as I stagger crotch-first into the nearest Pinkberry stall. And they don't tell them about this, they never tell them, just get on drugs, get surgery, you'll be so happy, you're valid no matter what your family says. It's like they're invited to Black Friday at the try-then-buy pop-up pharmacy, and they get angry at the people trying to tell them that there are freezer trucks and a tinted SUV out back.

I used to freely be pro-trans. I didn't even think about it. I thought transphobia was a real and self-evident thing and that observing gender pronouns and such was a reasonable ask provided you worked with us on this issue. But then I saw how way too many transpeople talk to each other online when they think nobody can see them. The fetishes, the white lies, the clamping on dissent. The whole veil of the sunk-cost fallacy and how they just take and invade and demand and whine and complain to the point of ludicrous contradictions in logic that the community is never willing to address. The way they silence other transpeople for calling out the charade, to the point where I'm borderline losing all my good faith. Yeah some people here are virulently transphobic and when I start seeing what they've seen, the people they've known misled and ruined, the sometimes unbelievable effort in covering up troublesome stories, I can't blame them for getting aggressive.

And sitting there for hours replying to every slow response on this thread ain't a power move, fella.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

It's funny, how "sexual insecurity" is the classic attack, when, in fact, it is precisely our security in our gender and sexuality that causes this discomfort and disgust of watching people who have a claimed (and frequently misdiagnosed) physiological disconnect between their bodies and their minds (which generically used to be called mental...something) turn to this drug trough and demand for "cosmetic surgery."

Yeah that's just some delusional bullshit. No, the real reason you obsess about these people is their willingness to toss your personal hangups in the trash reminds you how fucking meaningless your own bullshit identity is. Turns out masculinity is a choice and you are only you by an accident of birth and upbringing. "Secure" my ass. "Secure" people don't write 3 paragraphs trying to argue that their obsession with others genitalia has some sort of meaning other then...fuck, wait, it HAS no meaning. Not really.

Butt lifts is your comparison? Really? A successful butt lift still means I have a butt but have an easier time nicking tips from over the bar counter. A successful SRS means I no longer have a working penis, which, dysphoria aside, I could l have earned to really enjoy using (as I believe many trans-women do), and in it's place I have a mortar hole I have to stretch open every day for years against the bodies natural design like it's a massive bunch of half-inch rubber bands, with a small-to-moderate chance of never having decent sex again - all for the reward for hopefully being called ma'am as I stagger crotch-first into the nearest Pinkberry stall. And they don't tell them about this, they never tell them, just get on drugs, get surgery, you'll be so happy, you're valid no matter what your family says. It's like they're invited to Black Friday at the try-then-buy pop-up pharmacy, and they get angry at the people trying to tell them that there are freezer trucks and a tinted SUV out back.

Jesus christ Lacan would have a fucking field day with you.

I used to freely be pro-trans. I didn't even think about it. I thought transphobia was a real and self-evident thing and that observing gender pronouns and such was a reasonable ask provided you worked with us on this issue. But then I saw how way too many transpeople talk to each other online when they think nobody can see them. The fetishes, the white lies, the clamping on dissent. The whole veil of the sunk-cost fallacy and how they just take and invade and demand and whine and complain to the point of ludicrous contradictions in logic that the community is never willing to address. The way they silence other transpeople for calling out the charade, to the point where I'm borderline losing all my good faith. Yeah some people here are virulently transphobic and when I start seeing what they've seen, the people they've known misled and ruined, the sometimes unbelievable effort in covering up troublesome stories, I can't blame them for getting aggressive.

Oh I didn't realize I was talking to a cock philosopher

 

[Marvin]

I notice whenever this topic comes up you guys get really obsessed with SRS for some reason even though it's a pretty small minority of trans people who get that or even want to get it. Also calling it "mutilation" is a bit much. I met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself. For all accounts and purposes modern SRS gives you something that is pretty much indistinguishable from an actual vagina. It's not like they're leaving you with this bloody, circular, wound where your dick and balls used to be. Ya know, they actually replace it with something. Whether it's something you want to stick your dick in is another matter.

This isn't true for the vast majority of neovaginas in males. I guess by "indistinguishable", you're referring to the external view of the surgically constructed labia? Some of them you might not take a second look at, but a surprising number of them look super bad. I say "surprising", because that's the aspect that theoretically should be easy for a cosmetic surgeon to get right (isn't superficial skin sculpting what they do?), but they even mess that up.

But for the internal structures, what's supposed to be the "neovagina", yeah, no, they're all very distinguishable from real vaginas.

Vaginas aren't just holes to fuck. They're actual organs, with a purpose and a muscular structure that exists to serve that purpose. (not going naturalistic here, just pointing out that the form follows the function)

They're also situated in the pelvic floor of a female, which is very different from the pelvic floor of a male. Neovaginas feel very different internally.

The traditional penile inversion doesn't self lubricate. The peritoneum neovaginas are better and do lubricate to some extent. The sigmoid colon vaginoplasties also lubricate, although reportedly it's like a leaking tap.

A big problem with neovaginas is that it's cosmetic surgeons doing it, not urologists or better qualified surgeons. Sometimes they consult urologists, but a depressingly high number of them don't.

What cosmetic surgeons do is important, like dealing with burn victims or cancer patients. But they're not really qualified to be fucking around with sensitive urological structures or other internal organs. They make a mess of things.

 

[Vect]

Yeah that's just some delusional bullshit. No, the real reason you obsess about these people is their willingness to toss your personal hangups in the trash reminds you how fucking meaningless your own bullshit identity is. Turns out masculinity is a choice and you are only you by an accident of birth and upbringing. "Secure" my ass. "Secure" people don't write 3 paragraphs trying to argue that their obsession with others genitalia has some sort of meaning other then...fuck, wait, it HAS no meaning. Not really.

Take it you don't read many books then.

Edit: Oh, I see you're one of those kinds of people. 6 years? I respect dedicated performance art.

 

[Wuornos]

Marvin I’m sorry but I simply do not agree that all of those that have dysphoria have something of a mental illness, absolutely not the same thing, there is someone I even know who Is trans/non binary a woman who wants to be a male, and she/he is a perfectly legitimate and non mentally ill person. There are people, some kids and teens who just don’t feel right in their own bodies who want to transition and like I’ve mentioned before hope people will accept them as they slowly begin to transition. Very corny I understand, but they not mentally ill, they have legitimate body issues and don’t and will not grow up to be Screeching SJW transexual deviants and psychopaths who have ruined the image of the LGBT Community. They really are just innocent victims of circumstance, just want to transition quietly and I wish more people acknowledged that younger people suffer from this.

Point being when you refer to all of them as ‘mentally ill sociopaths with cum for brains’ you forget there are children as young as twelve who start to feel gender dysphoria, it comes across as cruel and ignorant when there are younger people involved. It makes you look less like someone with a controversial yet understandable view on a hot issue to just a full blown asshole shitting on the weak. That’s going too far.

Gender dysmorphia absolutely is a mental illness. It is not possible to be a "woman" trapped in a male body or vice versa.

 

[Wuornos]

I notice whenever this topic comes up you guys get really obsessed with SRS for some reason even though it's a pretty small minority of trans people who get that or even want to get it. Also calling it "mutilation" is a bit much. I met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself. For all accounts and purposes modern SRS gives you something that is pretty much indistinguishable from an actual vagina. It's not like they're leaving you with this bloody, circular, wound where your dick and balls used to be. Ya know, they actually replace it with something. Whether it's something you want to stick your dick in is another matter.

Not possible. It's not a vagina. It's an inverted penis that is lubricated by bowel mucus. It does not function in the same way an actual vagina functions. They don't even have vaginal muscles or a functioning clitoris. How on earth do they orgasm then if they don't have the required components? What you've posted is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Jimmy Olsen]

I laugh when trannies do dumb stuff on the internet, but I don't actually hate them. I think they have mental problems, but that doesn't inherently make a person bad, and as long as dressing up as a girl (or boy) and calling themselves Davida doesn't severely negatively impact their lives or the lives of others, there are worse things in the world. Some are probably better off living as transsexuals than getting the treatment necessary to fix the underlying psychological problems. In medicine, sometimes it is more risky to try and cure the problem compared to letting a mild pathology remain (like how you don't risk shattering a bone to repair a crack).

I don't think hormones or sex reassignment surgeries should be promoted, and should be discouraged, not encouraged, by professionals. Adults are allowed to have stupid, self harming behaviours (if we aren't, outlaw cigarettes and any sort of recreational drug), but it shouldn't be something that we celebrate, and doing it to a child should be just as taboo as handing little Johnny the vodka and smokes to calm his nerves while he gets his first tattoo. Let adults who are determined to chop themselves up do it in a sterile, relatively safe environment, but discourage the practice as a whole.


To sum it up, harm reduction should be the name of the game, as it is in all other parts of medicine and psychology. People have a right to personal freedom, but don't glorify dangerous behaviours. Like with most things, when treating someone with transgender symptoms, it should be viewed on a case by case basis. Some people are probably better off in a dress (again, not talking surgery/hormones, my opinions aren't fully decided regarding those) despite the known drawbacks of such behaviour, but not everyone who has transgender feelings will be better off living as the opposite sex, and it should not be seen as the only option for those dealing with gender dysphoria.


I'm still going to get a chuckle out of troon selfie bingo, but in terms of actually living in society, this is my shit take.

 

[Shpongoolio Trismegistus]

I notice whenever this topic comes up you guys get really obsessed with SRS for some reason even though it's a pretty small minority of trans people who get that or even want to get it. Also calling it "mutilation" is a bit much. I met somebody who had it once, their "vagina" was not only capable of producing orgasm, it got wet by itself.

Did they, like, show it to you?