Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[TootfuckingToot]

I wouldn't be either.


My understanding is that 12-step programs pressure you to admit you're an addict even when you are not because it's a cult that always requires more converts.

X to doubt Mallory was ever a true addict. She sounds like an insufferable daddy's girl that drank too much at a party a couple times in college so that automatically makes her an alcoholic.

She prolly just says she's an addict to fit in with her husband and all the troons, since they're all mostly addicted to drugs

Or it could be as simple as trying to get attention from daddy, but she's vague because she isn't a true addict and she knows it.

My recollection of the great Romeo & Juliet story is that Mallory was already sober and Joe got sober after they started to dance around each other.

I can believe though that Mallory's addiction is over soul searching bullshit, the desire for a safety net of interested people, general meaning - and a response to her evangelical upbringing.

 

[behindyourightnow]

An Aussie anthropologist named David Boarder Giles.
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Hope he likes wearing his nan’s nightdress.

Don’t forget that Laurie accused Julie Bindel of hatecriming “LGBTQ authors” recently when Bindel published a bad review of Laurie’s book. Bindel is an actual lesbian and Laurie is a woman in a heterosexual marriage to a man. But she is "queer" and that apparently wins out in Current Year.

Given how we've all noted how much older Joe looks compared to his actual age, is there any chance he might be fudging his age a bit? If not, he's just another troon who proves that "cracking your egg" makes you age like milk. Well, that and porking out like he has. There's no putting old Humpty Dumpty back together again.

I doubt it. There’s too many people he interacts with regularly on Twitter who know him in real life. Plus lying about his age would involve admitting to himself on some level that he is old and uncool, and he is not self-reflective enough for that.

I am not kidding when I say I am fascinated by how badly cross-sex hormones seem to age a lot of people; I wonder if it has something to do with fat redistribution? Men and women have more fat in different places on their faces, and the hormones probably make the body "try" to shift that fat around. But if you're already at a certain age and your collagen isn't what it used to be, maybe the newly distributed fat just kind of slumps and gives you jowls. I don't know, I'm just spitballing here because actual science isn't interested. Any dermatologist lurkers in the thread?

 

[Prescription Bugs]

That really is Mallory.

 

[behindyourightnow]

There's some discussion back in the thread about this. Mal has been very vague about the details of this supposed addiction, and there was some skepticism about it. She really doesn't strike me as the addictive type. Has there been more info about this recently?

Sorry any Mal fans here, but I find her to be someone with wildly unreliable takes on anything and everything.

Frankly, I think that she's not very intelligent, and is terrible at analyzing situations and coming to reasonable conclusions. I get the impression that she has led a very sheltered life, without much interaction with other humans, except for Nicole Cliffe and Joe (who are both nuts, too), so her frame of reference is very narrow. Aside from her cognitive limitations, she has a lot of psychological issues as well, which distort her perceptions, and Joe is further twisting her.

It wouldn't surprise me if her status as ex-addict is part of Joe's manipulation techniques, or just one of her cuckoo misinterpretations.

I think she's extremely intelligent and talented (far more intelligent than Joe). You can be intelligent and dumb, though. Maybe those aren't the right words to use (we need better vocab around this). Case in point would be high-functioning autistic people (not Rain Man savants, actually 'high functioning'), many of whom are extremely good at various intellectual pursuits but will hand over their money to you if you tell them you're a Wallet Inspector.

I harp on this a lot because I think this particular neurotype (smart, verbally intelligent, comes off as self-sufficient, but actually gullible and trusting to an extent of being childlike) comprises the majority of young people being groomed into trooning out today. High-functioning autists are a bigger part of the population than they used to be, but we still don't have a good way of categorizing them, let alone protecting them from predators, because we think that if you are an adult and you are not retarded, you must have the same ability to make good decisions and protect yourself as anyone else.

I don't know if this applies to Mallory.

 

[Allo Vera]

I wondered if Joe was lying about his age, but it’s easily checked online. Lavery is quite an unusual surname, and here is a Joseph Lavery born in Worcestershire in 1983.

 

[Holiday of no return]

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That really is Mallory.

Joe wasn't lying! If you transition for long enough, you start to look like a real thing!

 

[FATTESTCUNT]

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That really is Mallory.

Many years ago, me and a friend were absolutely shit-faced and got refused entry to a local club because we had on jeans and t-shirts, and we ended up stealing a bag of clothes that had been left outside a charity shop, putting on whatever fit, then trying to regain entry to the club, much to the amusement of the bouncers that had told us to fuck off the first time.

We looked better dressed than these two cunts.

 

[Carnavoyeur]

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Are you fucking kidding me

 

[Potatis Salad]

God he looks incredible. That tourniquet of a belt around his flab, lmaoooo.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

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That really is Mallory.

How is it that so many female troons end up looking like Downs kids? Mallory really does look like this DS guy who folds boxes at my local pizzeria. But she isn't the only one- I have seen quite a few ftm troons who look literally like chubby retarded kids. What is it? Not just the bad haircuts and ill fitting clothes. Honestly Exceptional Pizza Guy is a better dresser than her.

 

[chickenbutt]

Many years ago, me and a friend were absolutely shit-faced and got refused entry to a local club because we had on jeans and t-shirts, and we ended up stealing a bag of clothes that had been left outside a charity shop, putting on whatever fit, then trying to regain entry to the club, much to the amusement of the bouncers that had told us to fuck off the first time.

We looked better dressed than these two cunts.

That's actually really funny. I'd have let you in, personally, but that's just one of a million reasons why I'd make a terrible bouncer.

God he looks incredible. That tourniquet of a belt around his flab, lmaoooo.

What I don't understand in all of this - while you guys opine much more eloquently about precisely how much Asperger's Mallory has - is how literally a single actual female can stand to be in Joe's presence. He's so utterly, relentlessly tedious I feel like my life force is being drained just looking at him trying to recreate a "waist" by cutting off all his circulation around the middle. He looks like if you just had another belt to pull really tight around his knees he'd make sausages... which is ironic, I suppose.

He's just so radioactively repulsive in an overwhelmingly pathetic way, just a giant waste of a y-chromosome lumbering about the place like if Edina from Ab Fab had an embarrassing fat SPED cousin. Shoving his gross, ridiculous self-insert fanfic toilet paper at you so he could talk more about himself while simultaneously skinwalking as you. I've said before that Joe looks like a neglected Afghan hound, but at this point I'd be willing to put money on him having the breath of one, too.

I cannot comprehend how a single actual woman can bear to be in his presence for more than 15 seconds without rolling her eyes so hard she goes blind, or just reflexively punting him in the nuts.

 

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

I'm kind of sad that there's yet been "normie" reviews of Joe's book, professional or otherwise. There's been nothing on GoodReads or Amazon (there's a lonely five star review, obviously by someone who knows Joe). I'm really curious how someone who doesn't have a stake in either the TRA or TERF camp would react to it.

 

[Cryin RN]

I don't want to run down all of the press tour interviews, but here's some stuff about Mallory wanting to transition to have better sex.

The podcast "Gender: A Wider Lens: had a really interesting interview with a detransitioner who spoke about how fanfic communities create "gay" FTMs. Essentially, they sell girls on the idea that gay relationships are more emotionally fulfilling than straight ones- beyond just being "hotter"- basically because in fanfic communities the blind (straight girls) lead the blind (other straight girls) describing all the hot monogamous emotional sex gay guys totally have in real life. Those communities are full of nerdy, educated upper-class mostly-white girls just like Mallory who have issues relating to real boys, probably like Mallory the preacher's daughter. And they might be book smart but they are street stupid. Just like Mallory. She's exactly the right age and demo to have built her expectations of gayness and sexual satisfaction on shitty HP fanfic and it would explain decisions like that one.

 

[Bani]

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That really is Mallory.

Huh, I didn't realize Mr. Plinkett was her transition goal.

 

[Trianon]

There's some discussion back in the thread about this. Mal has been very vague about the details of this supposed addiction, and there was some skepticism about it. She really doesn't strike me as the addictive type. Has there been more info about this recently?

Sorry any Mal fans here, but I find her to be someone with wildly unreliable takes on anything and everything.

Frankly, I think that she's not very intelligent, and is terrible at analyzing situations and coming to reasonable conclusions. I get the impression that she has led a very sheltered life, without much interaction with other humans, except for Nicole Cliffe and Joe (who are both nuts, too), so her frame of reference is very narrow. Aside from her cognitive limitations, she has a lot of psychological issues as well, which distort her perceptions, and Joe is further twisting her.

It wouldn't surprise me if her status as ex-addict is part of Joe's manipulation techniques, or just one of her cuckoo misinterpretations.

Joe said something weird about Mallory's addiction in the interview I posted.

Grace: Absolutely, that’s right. When Danny and I met — which is narrated through a sort of fiction in the book — there really was this incredible theatricality to it. We immediately looked at each other and knew we would be in each other’s lives somehow. I think we both had this sense of filmic drama. You’re absolutely right that transness was an axis that we were able to access before we had a language for it.

And I think the same is true for alcoholism. I mean Danny’s alcoholism and mine are quite different. Mine is speedier and his is stonier, so we sort of complement or contrast each other. But at the core is a very, very deep likeness, a very deep sameness that we share and we love in each other and we need in each other and need from each other.

Archive

I guess he means literal "speed" and "stoned," like uppers and downers. It's fucking weird to say that's why you fit together, as if "what kind of drunk are you?" is a Myers-Briggs test. Also GAG at this "we were fated to be" nonsense. They're both annoying theater kids, and this is exactly what her relationship with Nicole was always like. I don't know how anyone can stand being that performatively codependent all the time.

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That really is Mallory.

That hat is sped central. I hate it.

God he looks incredible. That tourniquet of a belt around his flab, lmaoooo.
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Why do his moobs come down to his belly button?

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

God he looks incredible. That tourniquet of a belt around his flab, lmaoooo.
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The most widely accepted opinion about AGPs' clothing choices - which empirical evidence seems to corroborate - is they tend to dress like the women they'd like to fuck.
If Joe's the same, well... I don't even want to think about its implications considering his recently found Babushka *~a e s t h e t i c s~*.
And yet I did think about it and so did you. Je suis vraiment désolé.

 

[Mealy Mouth Spittle]

I think she's extremely intelligent and talented (far more intelligent than Joe). You can be intelligent and dumb, though. Maybe those aren't the right words to use (we need better vocab around this). Case in point would be high-functioning autistic people (not Rain Man savants, actually 'high functioning'), many of whom are extremely good at various intellectual pursuits but will hand over their money to you if you tell them you're a Wallet Inspector.

I harp on this a lot because I think this particular neurotype (smart, verbally intelligent, comes off as self-sufficient, but actually gullible and trusting to an extent of being childlike) comprises the majority of young people being groomed into trooning out today. High-functioning autists are a bigger part of the population than they used to be, but we still don't have a good way of categorizing them, let alone protecting them from predators, because we think that if you are an adult and you are not retarded, you must have the same ability to make good decisions and protect yourself as anyone else.

I don't know if this applies to Mallory.

In my neck of the woods, that would be known as book smart vs common sense. As in "he's book smart but doesn't have a lick of common sense". It's actually quite common. I think you're right that gullibility is a major factor. I think for people like this it has less to do with autism and more to do with being sheltered as a child. If you insulate yourself with only a certain type of crowd, you start to think that everyone thinks like you and has the same motives as you. It is hard for people like this to comprehend that people can be malicious in a more serious manner than just petty, passive-aggressive behavior.

The most widely accepted opinion about AGPs' clothing choices - which empirical evidence seems to corroborate - is they tend to dress like the women they'd like to fuck.
If Joe's the same, well... I don't even want to think about its implications considering his recently found Babushka *~a e s t h e t i c s~*.
And yet I did think about it and so did you. Je suis vraiment désolé.

Maybe he'll end up like Chris Chan. But that does make me wonder if maybe he was molested by an older woman when he was young. We don't often think of young boys as victims when they get molested by an older woman which in a lot of ways makes it harder because they are given the message that they were "lucky" to get sex at an earlier age. Probably not Joe's problem -- but I do think there is a decent percentage of FtM who troon out because of being molested as a kid (thinking they could have fought back or even avoided it if they were male), I'm sure there must be some MtF who also got messed up enough from molestation to troon out.

And wow, Joe has massive dark circles. He needs to learn how to use concealer. And also drop some weight. The fatter he gets, the worse they are going to look.

 

[Prescription Bugs]

But that does make me wonder if maybe he was molested by an older woman when he was young. We don't often think of young boys as victims when they get molested by an older woman which in a lot of ways makes it harder because they are given the message that they were "lucky" to get sex at an earlier age. Probably not Joe's problem -- but I do think there is a decent percentage of FtM who troon out because of being molested as a kid (thinking they could have fought back or even avoided it if they were male), I'm sure there must be some MtF who also got messed up enough from molestation to troon out.

Okay so. I made a new Instagram a while back and centered it around Joe and Mal and a bunch of trans people almost exclusively. If Joe liked a cartoon, I added it in. If someone commented on his wall, I added them in. I’m now following a ton of sex workers and dominatrix types and those who love to be tied up in ropes naked and hurt. Guess what? The strangest thing happened, in this account at least 10% of the ads are all about finding an attorney to fight your child sexual abuse— at school, at church, at your mental health facility. For my regular normal, “Me” account, the ads are clothes to buy, jewelry, vacations, gadgets, books, home cooking services. I wish I had more experience with tech research and algorithm analysis because I’m not doing anything different. It’s simply the people I’m following that are different.

Even stranger is I block these depressing ads every time I get them and I never get that same ad again… just more and more ads from different scenarios asking me if I want to join a lawsuit about child sexual abuse. There is an endless source of these attorneys and class action lawsuits pursuing action against abusers.

It’s so prevalent that I can’t help but wonder if truly this demographic of “deviants” is full of people who are victims of CSA.

Another common ad for this account only is various kinds of psychiatric drugs and legal psychedelics. Microdosing, adderall alternatives. I’m doing the same things, to reiterate. I’m clicking on pajama ads and normal stuff I always click on, but on my “deviant lives” account, this is what I get. Tbh, it’s built my compassion so much more than before because it’s occurred to me that this fog they are in, the confusion, the pursuing happiness at great personal cost… all of it is perhaps at root truly profound mental illness and interruption of healthy development in some way.

The feed and ads have become so disturbing, I’ve considered shutting down the “deviants” account more than once. It makes me sad and it feels as though I’ve found my way into someone’s home— seen their bookshelves, looked in their drawers, read their diaries and their friends’ diaries.


If it helps me build some compassion for a group of people who support medical interventions for minors, it might be worth it. Because this topic is huge for me. It bothers me to see development interrupted in teens and young adults. It helps me to view the teen boob chopper enablers through this victim lens. Before I was viewing them as abusers too. Now I’m able to see them more as wounded abusers. Cutting off boobs and being into bdsm is maybe the ultimate protection (in their minds) from sexual exploitation? All just fleeting theories, but interesting to think about.

 

[Allo Vera]

He's just so radioactively repulsive in an overwhelmingly pathetic way, just a giant waste of a y-chromosome lumbering about the place like if Edina from Ab Fab had an embarrassing fat SPED cousin. Shoving his gross, ridiculous self-insert fanfic toilet paper at you so he could talk more about himself while simultaneously skinwalking as you. I've said before that Joe looks like a neglected Afghan hound, but at this point I'd be willing to put money on him having the breath of one, too.

That is a fantastic paragraph and is surely exponentially better than anything in Lavery’s awful book.

The podcast "Gender: A Wider Lens: had a really interesting interview with a detransitioner who spoke about how fanfic communities create "gay" FTMs. Essentially, they sell girls on the idea that gay relationships are more emotionally fulfilling than straight ones- beyond just being "hotter"- basically because in fanfic communities the blind (straight girls) lead the blind (other straight girls) describing all the hot monogamous emotional sex gay guys totally have in real life. Those communities are full of nerdy, educated upper-class mostly-white girls just like Mallory who have issues relating to real boys, probably like Mallory the preacher's daughter.

I keep meaning to check this podcast out but I definitely will now. Tumblr was dominated by teenage girls writing filthy slash fic about their favourite boy bands, like One Direction, at one point. That didn’t happen to 90s boy bands (which was my boy band era) but I guess Internet use was in its infancy then.

I understood it. These girls were just projecting their dreams and fantasies onto these pretty boys that represented a very unthreatening and feminine form of masculinity. I guess becoming unthreatening, feminine manlets was always going to be the next logical step.

 

[Twiggez-Vous]

The most widely accepted opinion about AGPs' clothing choices - which empirical evidence seems to corroborate - is they tend to dress like the women they'd like to fuck.
If Joe's the same, well... I don't even want to think about its implications considering his recently found Babushka *~a e s t h e t i c s~*.
And yet I did think about it and so did you. Je suis vraiment désolé.[/ispoilerThe most widely accepted opinion about AGPs' clothing choices - which empirical evidence seems to corroborate - is they tend to dress like the women they'd like to fuck.

In my neck of the woods, that would be known as book smart vs common sense. As in "he's book smart but doesn't have a lick of common sense". It's actually quite common. I think you're right that gullibility is a major factor. I think for people like this it has less to do with autism and more to do with being sheltered as a child. If you insulate yourself with only a certain type of crowd, you start to think that everyone thinks like you and has the same motives as you. It is hard for people like this to comprehend that people can be malicious in a more serious manner than just petty, passive-aggressive behavior.


Maybe he'll end up like Chris Chan. But that does make me wonder if maybe he was molested by an older woman when he was young. We don't often think of young boys as victims when they get molested by an older woman which in a lot of ways makes it harder because they are given the message that they were "lucky" to get sex at an earlier age. Probably not Joe's problem -- but I do think there is a decent percentage of FtM who troon out because of being molested as a kid (thinking they could have fought back or even avoided it if they were male), I'm sure there must be some MtF who also got messed up enough from molestation to troon out.

And wow, Joe has massive dark circles. He needs to learn how to use concealer. And also drop some weight. The fatter he gets, the worse they are going to look.

Joe needs mortician-grade make-up to hide those. This is a seriously ropey looking dude for 38/39. Considering he is wealthy and teetotal with a cushy indoor job, it is staggering that he looks like a wino who 's slept in a skip. Joe, the young male body has no receptors for excess oestrogen, you fool. God knows what your heart and veins look like.