Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[ScooterL]

Edit: The Daily Mail has picked up the story

This is fame beyond his wildest dreams. Jo's arrived, at last.

Here's the article he's referring to as evidence. It's quite interesting and well worth a read.

Guy who wrote that used to write for Vice, ffs. Calling these people "fascist" pushes Mr Lavery into snowflake stereotype territory.

 

[BluntyBitch]

Awww, Joe is taking our advice to focus on his students, kinda. Also get this expert on English a damn dictionary, this note ain't brief. Though this explains his book - it's a "creative work"

Joe The Translation: "No point in debating Joyce because I would have won anyway, and I didn't drop out because I was scared of her." But yet tellingly used the word "terrified"

"I had No reason to drop out, until all this chaos happened and the critics came for me with real questions I could no longer avoid!"

He can claim it's because he didn't research the forum enough, and claim theyre altright or Nazi sympathizers all he wants. (That's a good look - a professor not doing his homework)

But personally I always find it suspicious and telling that he brought up specifically articles on Nazis - We Must Learn History Soas Not To Repeat It, Joe, and sometimes that means articles about Nazis. Personally I find it insulting when people want to judge for the types of media or books that we are consuming as lifelong learners - am I not allowed to read anything I fucking want and make my own opinions after the last page is closed? there is so much to be learned from whatever interest or "hatereading" especially reading authors from many sides and experiences, and learn and decide for ourselves. I think it's because folks like Joe want to avoid parts of history, like the Holocaust, (unless he can use it to Furthur his cause, somehow) Instead of Joe taking the scholarly approach of, idk, that there is something to learn from difficult topics and different opinions on them? Instead he has to make the forum out to be fascist.

Maybe I'm biased but I find that approach insulting for a scholar and professor.

And he COULDNT RESIST dropping Jesse Singals name, LOL. And that he was called names! Pwoor bhayybie

Does the "black shirt on facism" read to other kiwis like sarcasm? Does Joe not understand satire and sarcasm?

Joe, it's not a *private* Instagram if you made *public* posts, please use that dictionary.

So Joe publically throws his mother and her parenting under the bus more than once before. I wonder if any of that had gotten back to her?

Joe, someone sending your publically posted internet sex pictures to your mother is not"rage directed at your mother." No one called her a slag, or a bad parent, or a piece of shit, or an enabler of a narcissistic lying son, or egged her house or even threatened to in Minecraft because she's an innocent little old lady (most likely, idk she made Joe so it could go either wayfor me, but obviously she doesn't deserve to be bothered by her son's public degeneracy, even if I find it funny) Someone simply sending her your internet history is not a reason to "protect her" and pull out of the debate.( Since she's older, and susceptible to loneliness, and scams, maybe make sure she is safe in THAT department?)

"I don't feel safe" my ass, you're not being threatened Joe, nothing here says you're being threatened. You're just simply ing out because you are a foolish Englishman who is out of his wheelhouse, and Knew you would lose. But how convenient, just drop the "tranny doesn't feel safe" card. And to basically imply you wouldn't be safe there debating without "preparations to feel safe" is insulting and I hope they call you out on it. It's shameful on your end as a debater and a scholar.

"I remain quite sure that changing one’s entire hormonal system is not “cosmetic,” that lesbians do not need the state to define lesbianism for them, that feminism does not need and should not seek an apparently natural account of womanhood, and I am quite sure that women’s rights are not, have never been, and must never be, “sex-based.” "

He won't define woman,because he knows he can't. Well, we *presume* to know he cant. Keep refusing Joe!

" I hope someone can tell me why I’m wrong without justifying those harassing my mother."

Joe you are wrong on so many feminist points and it has nothing to do with your mother, please stop bringing her up, it's pathetic. Mommy can't save you from our critical opinions if YOUR work, including your public "sex pictures," if you could even call them that.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

I wonder if it's occurred to Mallory yet how those photos will follow her around forever.

I wonder if it's occurred to her that her parents can also receive the same photos. And that they may have read the disturbing sex scenes in her hanger-on's book where she's licking a flaccid penis while pressing her fingers on an inguinal canal she's forced to pretend is a vagina.

And that those scenes, too, will follow her around forever.

Her parents are probably praying for her. I wonder if she thinks about that. Her brother, too.

Those things are empowering, there is nothing to be ashamed of here. The only harm is when those things are shared with people who are not enlightened enough to understand this. Although perhaps those people should be forced to see these as it may open their eyes to the oppression they suffer under and cause them to throw off their chains as well.

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Oh my, so chickenhawk Graceless Joe Lavatory ran away from yet another debate and might even cancel his UK book tour?
What an unexpected turn of events, I would never have guessed his Grand Crusade against those dang dirty terves would end not in a bang, not a whimper, not even in a wet fart, but painful groaning in a fruitless effort to squeeze out that wet fart.
His equally ridiculous and pathetic "3edgy5me" fed SASposting reminds me of my niece a couple years ago - "I'M NOT TOUCHING YOUR PHONE MOM I'M JUST REACHING FOR IT I'M NOT TOUCHING IT, HONEST". It was kind of cute, in a childish way. A grown man doing the same is pathetic and disgusting.

 

[Mealy Mouth Spittle]

The most hilarious part is that this was all self-inflicted. The TERFs didn't beg Joe to debate. He dared them to debate him. He threw down that gauntlet fully expecting women to be too intimidated by his male intellectual prowess (A debate world champion! Professor at BERKELEY!) to even dare to accept such a challenge.

All he had to do to avoid this was not be a dick on social media. The strategies that work on Mallory at home don't work on actual feminists, Joe. You know, women who don't feel like they have to debase themselves or completely alter their entire being to please a man or to avoid his rage.

I'll give Helen Joyce a lot of credit. He tried to push all her buttons to get her to rage quit the debate and she didn't fall for the bait. All she had to do was ignore Joe to get him to self-destruct. And he's just admitted to the world that troons are deathly afraid of free and open debate and that he is too stupid to beat a mere woman in a battle of wits (oh the horror! for a misogynist like Joe). Please let him cancel his book tour, too. That will make Joe 0 - 3 in his battle against the Terven Horde.

 

[MeganDodgedABullet]

Julie Bindel is up next I read - she's a tough old working class boot and will not take any of this coddled rich boy's shit.

 

[Potatis Salad]

A subtweet from James "Emmy Zje" Radich, courtesy of @Snarky Clark

 

[ScooterL]

Julie Bindel is up next I read - she's a tough old working class boot and will not take any of this coddled rich boy's shit.

He's already shit himself and run from Bindel. I don't blame him, there's no way he could out-debate her.

 

[Potatis Salad]

For easy reading, here is the text of the screenshotted statement that Joe pushed out via Christa Peterson on Twitter. To be clear, this has already been posted, it was just difficult to read in jpg form:

Joe says:

I want to offer a brief note of explanation for my part of the chaos of the last few weeks. I do so, of course, fully aware that my credibility as a commentator on contemporary trans politics has been utterly shot. Accordingly, I'm going to concentrate on my scholarly and creative work from now on.

I initially asked Helen Joyce and others to engage me in debate on trans civil rights last year. Helen Joyce never acknowledged my entreaties directly, but a few months later I was contacted by UnHerd, who told me they had an exclusive agreement with Joyce, such that if I declined their offer to host a debate, I'd effectively be walking away. I agreed, somewhat grudgingly, since knew they were a far right organization-which, of course, was why Joyce had put me in that position in the first place.

Separately, I discussed a second event with Julie Bindel, who did talk with me directly, at least at first. I discussed the event with Tortoise, a conservative news organ, and was generally very moved and struck by the evenhandedness of their approach. Ironically, while I remained fairly confident about my ability to defeat Joyce, whose public appearances always strike me as vague and unpersuasive, I was much more anxious about Bindel, who is persuasive, thoughtful, funny, vigorous, and was an active feminist organizer years before Caitlyn Jenner appeared on the front cover of Vanity Fair. But for some reason, Joyce's supporters seemed convinced I was terrified of her, and going to drop out-a belief I found variously funny and tactically disadvantageous to their side, because of course I didn't want to drop out, and I couldn't see any possible reason why I ever would.

Once UnHerd made their announcement, however, things became obvious. One group of comrades seemed to think, as people often do, that "debate" over trans civil rights is itself bad, and perhaps that it is connected to state crackdowns on trans people. I didn't and don't agree with that position: in my view, trans people need to be seizing as much camera time as possible, if we are to resist the extraordinarily rapid and far-reaching takeover of UK and US institutions by the so-called "gender critical" activists. But another group pointed out that UnHerd were a significantly more toxic platform than I had realized, pointing to obviously anti-Semitic content on the website, including articles lavishly praising the SS officer Ernst Jünger and the Nazi philosopher Carl Schmitt. I held a meeting with some members of the UK trans community who had expressed concern, and was persuaded by those who spoke there that it would have been a strategic mistake for me to align my own political interests with those of a far-right news organization that was actively working to mainstream fascist authors and ideas.

So, I publicly withdrew from the Joyce debate-ironically therefore proving her champions right, who still believe that I backed out from fear of Joyce's apparent debating prowess. And understandably, the GC Twittersphere went bananas: Jesse Singal, of all people, called me a "huckster"; Joyce herself, apparently unconcerned about her commitment to a platform that celebrated Schmitt and Jünger, suggested that someone make her an actual blackshirt to celebrate her association with fascism.

There then came the matter of the second debate, to be hosted by Tortoise and featuring Julie Bindel. My understanding of the UK trans community perspective on that had been some kind of split: one group of activists urged greater participation in public events and advocacy of that kind, and another group argued that such debates would necessarily harm the most vulnerable members of the community, especially to the extent that even the question of Bindel's or Joyce's apparent transphobia would be misguided if it did not also explore the connections between GC ideology and white supremacy, antiSemitism, and other aspects of far-right ideology. Nonetheless, my perspective at the end of that meeting was that the Bindel event would go ahead.

A couple of things happened yesterday (02/23) that changed that. One was that my mother was mobbed on Twitter by the same gender critical activists who have been hounding me for the last few years, with some going so far as to post pictures of my husband and I having consensual, loving, and mildly kinky sex that GC activists stole from a private instagram account some years ago. The hatred, misogyny, and rage that were being directed at my mother were simply too much to bear. I could not, and can not, ask her to bear the vicious attacks that I have become used to. The other was that I was, finally, terrified, in a way I just hadn't been before. I no longer felt like I could understand exactly how my advocacy could be useful to the UK trans community, which after all remained in some parts now fairly skeptical of me after I had missed the Nazi stuff on the UnHerd website. But more, I realized that my UK tour would likely become a focal point for the same kind of people who would send my mother pictures of me and Danny having sex. I am scared of those people, and I am not prepared-in a literal sense, I am not prepared, cannot afford the preparations that would be necessary-to feel physically safe at a debate. My friends and supporters, who have been encouraging me to move ahead with this, finally encouraged me to call it a day for my own safety, including my emotional safety, which is frayed. I am a sober alcoholic, and I have felt my sobriety pressured the last few week or so. So I need to put that first-and I've not lost my sobriety, I'm happy to say.

So, for these reasons, I've canceled the Bindel event, with mixed feelings and genuine gratitude to Julie Bindel and to Tortoise for handling the matter so professionally-a marked difference from the attitude demonstrated by Helen Joyce and UnHerd. I've considered scaling back my UK events, or abandoning the UK leg of the tour entirely. I've decided not to do that, in the end, because have written a book I'm proud of and I want to connect with those who have read PLEASE MISS. I hope those who are critical of my work and advocacy will be welcome at my events-some of that is up to my hosts, but I want to say here that for my part, I am available to speak with Julie Bindel, Helen Joyce, or anyone else at those events. I hope the book tour does not go by without at least some capacity to engage my opponents directly, even if in an ad hoc way.

The lesson for me is clear. For the last few years, I've tried to be a scholar, a public intellectual, and an author of creative prose. One of those has had to go, and it's the second one. If I were willing to claim I'd been "canceled," maybe I could salvage my reputation among the chattering classes, but I don't want to do that, because it isn't true. So again, I'm not going to be doing any more political engagements other than those to which I've already agreed. For others, I'm not so sure. I maintain that making political choices based on predictions about how our enemies will feel about them is misguided—the GCs are an unhinged and cruel group, and they will mock someone for expressing discomfort with Nazi ideology, and send revenge porn to a proud mother. So let's not do anything just because we think it will make them feel bad. Let's decide what our priorities are and commit to them instead. I'm not going to be part of those conversations moving forward, at least not in public, but I am always ready to take instructions and act with my comrades and siblings when it's helpful to do so.

I remain quite sure that changing one's entire hormonal system is not "cosmetic," that lesbians do not need the state to define lesbianism for them, that feminism does not need and should not seek an apparently natural account of womanhood, and I am quite sure that women's rights are not, have never been, and must never be, "sex-based." I hope someone can tell me why I'm wrong without justifying those harassing my mother.

In solidarity,

Grace Joe

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

"mildly kinky sex" = biting your partner's FACE.

This is an admission that he's abusing her massively. He doesn't consider himself just a "mildly kinky" person. And of course the idea that it was on a private account is stupid, I think they're still on a public account today. He loves that lie, though.

The kinds of lies he tells, where you have to go check around and source it and follow it up, mean that it's likely his academic work is probably peppered with source references that don't actually say what he says they do. This is such a common trick for academics to pull: they cite a source in a footnote and when you look the source up, it says nothing like what they claimed (or may even say the opposite of what it's being cited for saying). Even scientists and medical researchers use this dirty trick, so why not when you're a literature professor?

 

[TootfuckingToot]

"mildly kinky sex" = biting your partner's FACE.

This is an admission that he's abusing her massively. He doesn't consider himself just a "mildly kinky" person. And of course the idea that it was on a private account is stupid, I think they're still on a public account today. He loves that lie, though.

The kinds of lies he tells, where you have to go check around and source it and follow it up, mean that it's likely his academic work is probably peppered with source references that don't actually say what he says they do. This is such a common trick for academics to pull: they cite a source in a footnote and when you look the source up, it says nothing like what they claimed (or may even say the opposite of what it's being cited for saying). Even scientists and medical researchers use this dirty trick, so why not when you're a literature professor?

The Helen Joyce retelling is also false, sorry Kiwi's too ill to bring receipts right now but easily disproved. The guy is a totally wank - like we didn't know that already

 

[Swimminglanes]

*I remain quite sure that changing one's entire hormonal system is not "cosmetic," that lesbians do not need the state to define lesbianism for them, that feminism does not need and should not seek an apparently natural account of womanhood, and I am quite sure that women's rights are not, have never been, and must never be, "sex-based." I hope someone can tell me why I'm wrong without justifying those harassing my mother.*

So these are his slam dunk arguments?

Adding oestrogens and using testosterone blockers is not "changing the entire hormone system". And the reason men do it is for the cosmetic effects.

Lesbians don't need transsexual men to define lesbian either and yet that is what they are doing.

Feminism does not need transsexual men to define what it "should" be doing.

And yes, it's for the female sex.
So bored of these men and their boorish muscling in with their feeble, muddled up, specious pleading.

Let's hope he does shut up now. He's got nothing original to say and the old rubbish he's trotting out is threadbare with overuse. We've heard it all.

 

[Prescription Bugs]

I love how woke Joe constantly uses low intelligence as an insult. Particularly using IQ, which is ableism completely.

A subtweet from James "Emmy Zje" Radich, courtesy of @Snarky Clark
View attachment 3012916

Were these like Mussolini’s neighbors or something? Grew up around “fash?” Really? What does that even mean? You grew up around people who believe in a reasonable fairly ordered society with protection of borders, people’s freedoms, and property? Or you grew up with actual Nazis. Hmmmm.

 

[cherrysour]

Sweet Jesus. Is “bullshit avalanche” (in the H. Frankfurt sense, where one makes statements without regard for truth) a legit debate tactic? Is this how a staggering penis became number-four debater in all of Kazakhstan?

 

[Potatis Salad]

The Helen Joyce retelling is also false, sorry Kiwi's too ill to bring receipts right now but easily disproved. The guy is a totally wank - like we didn't know that already

Yes, totally. Here's a small but egregious example of Joe twisting the truth:

1.) Joe tweets that Helen Joyce is a "profiteering outrider" of a "fascist sect." Everyone lols.



2.) Arch-terf Jane Clare Jones jokes that troons can't seem to decide if terfs are violent fash or pathetic wine moms:


3.) Somebody chimes in, "Why not both? It would make a great t-shirt!"


4.) Someone makes a mock-up of the t-shirt and Helen Joyce jokes that she wants one.


The whole exchange was clearly just a bunch of people joking around and making fun of Joe's histrionic "fascist sect" bullshit. Helen Joyce was not being serious when she asked for a "scary fascist wine mom" shirt. And yet for some reason, Joe recounted Helen Joyce's joke tweet like this:

"Joyce...suggested that someone make her an actual blackshirt to celebrate her association with fascism."

"AN ACTUAL BLACKSHIRT." This absolute fucking asshole.

Meanwhile, it's the pot calling the kettle blackshirt because here's Joe in AN ACTUAL BROWNSHIRT. FASH!!!!!!!! LITERAL NAZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ona Quest]

Lol this response to Joe being a pure is priceless. I for one am incredibly sad the sausage roll will never get its chance to embarrass Lavery

Spoiler

 

[OttoWest]

If Gucci put out a swastika sweatshirt, this dipshit would buy it.

 

[Trianon]

A subtweet from James "Emmy Zje" Radich, courtesy of @Snarky Clark
View attachment 3012916

"Porn-based attacks." Is that like sex-based rights?

Instagram roundup:

Mallory stupidity:

 

[chickenbutt]

Mallory stupidity:
View attachment 3014968

What, like bald-faced hysterical lying about your own family being pedos/pedo enablers (without any proof) to get back at them for your pathetically ongoing struggle against pseudoadolescent daddy issues in your 30s, because your retarded tranny boyfriend assured you it was, like, totally brave of you to "protect children"?

Do you mean that kind of evil?

Yeah next time someone tries to claim Mallory isn't a retard, point them to this one. She's so painfully weak and stupid she arouses nothing but contempt in me, honestly. If you're going to sacrifice your entire personality and life for a man, Jesus christ at least pick better. She might as well be a child bride for all of the autonomy she has, and unlike the child bride she's ultimately there voluntarily.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

Were these like Mussolini’s neighbors or something? Grew up around “fash?” Really? What does that even mean? You grew up around people who believe in a reasonable fairly ordered society with protection of borders, people’s freedoms, and property? Or you grew up with actual Nazis. Hmmmm.

If you didn't grow up in a Marxist Maoist Hoxhaist commune outside the NATO countries you were surrounded by fash.