War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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I feel like Putin is using Muh Nazis rhetoric as a way of shitting on western media and their glorification of Antifa. I could be wrong but if I'm right that's hilarious.
The Socialists and Communists in the west often say that Ukraine is either run by or closely associated with neo-nazis post-Euromaidan. The World Socialist Web Site runs articles echoing this sentiment. State-aligned media has been doin so similarly, going on about 'muh Azovs'.

Just last week the WSWS ran a piece stating that American and British officials' public reports of a preparation for an invasion were 'baseless and unfounded'. In fairness to them, the Ukrainian govt. was also calling reports of a planned invasion as overblown, but that could simply have been propaganda aimed at reducing panic.

It does make one wonder who exactly is puppeteering these groups in the West when they're often giving out similar, if not the same, talking points. It would be remiss to think that Russia decided to immediately cut loose any foreign interference operations in the West just because the RSFSR and East-European Communism was no more.
 
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Yes, this sounds like the actions of a sane and reasonable NATO member state - invading the territory of another country and engaging in military action with Russia there.

Jamie, pull up that satellite scan, show us where Poland's army is!!
How many times has Poland been steamrolled by its neighbors just in modern history? NATO has nothing to do with it. NATO membership means the Poles match Putins Nuclear threats with guaranteed retaliation. But the Poles will not tolerate a direct border with Moscow ever again. They have the largest most modern and most capable military in Europe. With actual warfighting experience. They don't fear Putin. They despise him. They still feel he murdered a recent Polish President. The Poles will not be looking to NATO's interests this week. They will be looking to their own. And their interests unquestionably lie in having the Russian Army bleed out in Eastern Ukraine, rather than a Putin puppet on their border.
 
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How many times has Poland been steamrolled by its neighbors just in modern history? NATO has nothing to do with it. NATO membership means the Poles match Putins Nuclear threats with guaranteed retaliation. But the Poles will not tolerate a direct border with Moscow ever again. They have the largest most modern and most capable military in Europe. With actual warfighting experience. They don't fear Putin. They despise him. They still feel he murdered a recent Polish President. The Poles will not be looking to NATO's interests this week. They will be looking to their own. And their interests unquestionably lie in having the Russian Army bleed out in Eastern Ukraine, rather than a Putin puppet on their border.

You are certifiably insane if you think the US, NATO at large, and anyone else holding Poland accountable is going to allow WW3 to happen because some dumbasses with unpronounceable names decided they "weren't going to tolerate a direct border with Moscow".

They will tolerate whatever the fuck they're told to tolerate. They have the backing of NATO so nobody is going to be steamrolling them. Them going out into foreign territory and trying to pick fights with another country in direct combat is absolute madness.
 
It's war, it's now all propaganda.
"Truth is the first casualty in war."
Except Stalin was supplied by the West to fight against the Axis. Lend Lease was the only thing that kept the Soviet Union from collapsing and the only thing that allowed them to actually counter-attack. Modern Russia has no such benefits.
And he completely disregarded the wartime summit agreements to allow for free elections in the East in favor of installing pro-Soviet puppet governments through blatantly fraudulent referenda, knowing through the network of spies the NKVD had embedded through the West we'd have zero stomach to go to war with the USSR to enforce those agreements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference#Democratic_elections
Eh, no. Russia could have crushed Germany and friends even without Lend-Lease, it just would've taken longer, maybe 6 years instead of 4.

Germany was MASSIVELY outmatched by their opposition both in numbers and industrial output. Plus they were retarded and blinded by ideology.
Russia had major issues with food supply (since you know, starving your agricultural class to death so you can industrialize and then conscripting the survivors into the military doesn't have big consequences) and logistics that were only solved by the USA. And I don't mean just trucks either. With the total conversion of Russian industry to the output of war materiel a shocking number of "Russian" locomotives and rail cars during the war were made in the USA. As to the food, American-made beef stew in a can fed half the Red Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#US_deliveries_to_the_Soviet_Union
The United States delivered to the Soviet Union from October 1, 1941, to May 31, 1945 the following: 427,284 trucks, 13,303 combat vehicles, 35,170 motorcycles, 2,328 ordnance service vehicles, 2,670,371 tons of petroleum products (gasoline and oil) or 57.8 percent of the high-octane aviation fuel, 4,478,116 tons of foodstuffs (canned meats, sugar, flour, salt, etc.), 1,911 steam locomotives, 66 diesel locomotives, 9,920 flat cars, 1,000 dump cars, 120 tank cars, and 35 heavy machinery cars. Provided ordnance goods (ammunition, artillery shells, mines, assorted explosives) amounted to 53 percent of total domestic consumption. One item typical of many was a tire plant that was lifted bodily from the Ford Company's River Rouge Plant and transferred to the USSR. The 1947 money value of the supplies and services amounted to about $11 billion.
Where did I say I care about Biden? I just don't want to have Russia as my neighbour.
Asshole Russia.jpg

I feel really, really bad for Ukraine because the pain has seriously spread a hell of a lot further than just their assholes.
Putin warned other countries that any attempt to interfere with the Russian action would lead to consequences they have never seen.
I hope that's an iffy translation and not Putin dropping a "Consequences will never be the same!" remark...

and shoulder fired anti-tank weaponry can be lethal
We’re less then 24 hours in but those new toys we sold Ukraine seem to be paying dividends for them.
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She's been more effective than I thought she would.
You are certifiably insane if you think the US, NATO at large, and anyone else holding Poland accountable is going to allow WW3 to happen because some dumbasses with unpronounceable names decided they "weren't going to tolerate a direct border with Moscow".

They will tolerate whatever the fuck they're told to tolerate. They have the backing of NATO so nobody is going to be steamrolling them. Them going out into foreign territory and trying to pick fights with another country in direct combat is absolute madness.
Yes, I am certain that there will be no advisors, volunteers, or other totally-not-regular Polish forces fighting in Ukraine. What's Putin going to do, claim the Poles are openly sending troops to oppose him should a bunch of potato-scented half-Slavs mysteriously appear on the other side of the Ukrainian border? He'd be forced to admit he had Russians in Ukraine ever since 2014, completely wrecking what thin little veneer of legitimacy he has.
 
Ukraines airforce didn't stand a chance and their best GBADs were S300s - Soviet era predecessors to the S400s the Russians use - and too few in number to hold off the Russians. In the air it was a done thing before the fighting started, too few in number and too old.

That said: No. MANPADs are still going to be a threat, and will no doubt represent the majority of the air threat that the Russians face. This will allow for the Ukrainians to contest the air somewhat, in addition to this while airpower is important - it really depends on what Russia can achieve once it has air superiority. They're not anywhere near on par with the the US, or Western Nations in terms of capability. While they can match a lot of the tech the West has, they can only do so in limited numbers. Hence, the fact most Russian munitions in Syria weren't smart bombs like the West uses. These are less accurate and therefore less effective, and using them accurately would open you use to MANPADs which would not be able to be used against aircraft using guided standoff munitions as they would be out of range.

If, and this is a big big if, Russia can quickly win then how they will occupy such a large, hostile and well armed landmass is up in the air. I think they would fail ala Afghanistan in the 1980s. If they don't win quickly, then this will become attrition based and that gives Ukraine an opportunity to "no lose", but even if Russia won in that scenario the end game would be the same. A large, well armed landmass full of people who want to shoot you.
Some of the news sources around are saying Ukranians are moving around alot to throw off Russian air and are ambushing Russian spearhead tanks at night. It is slowing them down and I do think Ukranian tactics going forward are going to be guerilla tactics like this.
 
Add to this Poland does not want a direct border with Russia ever again. Poland is probably the one European Military that Putin cannot simply overwhelm. Any conflict with the Poles will be harsh and bloody for the Russians. Poland does have a large land border with Ukraine. So much so that the Russians will be hard pressed to prevent vast shipments of arms and advisors from Poland. The Poles have been remarkably quiet. Does anyone kniw where their army is right now? Given the history it is quite possible the Poles might choose to fight in Kyiv rather than waiting for the fighting to reack Warsaw yet again.
lol don't count on it, that would throw the art.5 of NATO out of the window entirely
Also Poland army is lacking the same important thing that Ukrainian army is lacking- decent and plentiful AA, which gives Russians almost unopossed air superiority

How many times has Poland been steamrolled by its neighbors just in modern history?
If by Modern History you mean since ca XVII century, then more or less 3 times, or 2 times if you count WWII as one steamrolling (not a history pro, so don't quote me on that). In the same timeframe saved Europe from Ottoman empire and won a war against Soviet Union once. So it's a mixed bag really
 
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Yes, I am certain that there will be no advisors, volunteers, or other totally-not-regular Polish forces fighting in Ukraine. What's Putin going to do, claim the Poles are openly sending troops to oppose him should a bunch of potato-scented half-Slavs mysteriously appear on the other side of the Ukrainian border? He'd be forced to admit he had Russians in Ukraine ever since 2014, completely wrecking what thin little veneer of legitimacy he has.

You are movings of goalposts. RodgerDodger said the Polish Sausage Army would be moving across the border and actively fighting Russian forces in Ukraine to prevent them from succeeding. "Advisors" is one thing, and so are the rest of the plausibly-deniable epithets you used. Openly moving your army (with, presumably, non-local vehicles, equipment, uniforms, etc) into a neighboring country and shooting at Russkies is another.

I'm not sure I follow how dead Poles on the ground in Odessa would prove Russia had troops in Ukraine since 2014.
 
More memes for the annuls:

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And now some ramblings:

Didn't The West just spend billions repairing/re-containing the Chernobyl site? *sigh* Kinda sums up the whole trusting Russia thing we should have figured out during Napolian's time.

Every side of this war sucks, the US is going to use it as an excuse to transfer more taxpayer wealth to Lockheed Martin and pals, while declaring it extra treasonous and 'pro-Russian' to appose Biden/Dems. Putin is going to continue to act like a typical Russian backstabbing pragmatist because that's what old Pete would have done and sanctions will tie them to the Chinese at the hip. The best thing that could happen here is Europe realizing that hippy bullshit won't win/stop wars and that daddy America has retired and can't/won't pay your rent anymore. Then there is the stink of brother war for the banking interests pervading the whole thing.
 
You are movings of goalposts. RodgerDodger said the Polish Sausage Army would be moving across the border and actively fighting Russian forces in Ukraine to prevent them from succeeding. "Advisors" is one thing, and so are the rest of the plausibly-deniable epithets you used. Openly moving your army (with, presumably, non-local vehicles, equipment, uniforms, etc) into a neighboring country and shooting at Russkies is another.

I'm not sure I follow how dead Poles on the ground in Odessa would prove Russia had troops in Ukraine since 2014.
My point is that if a few Leo 2PL's with no national markings start shooting at Russian forces Putin can't claim the Poles are directly intervening with a straight face, not when the entire reason Trump sent the Ukrainians Javelins is because they've been getting shot at by Russian T-72's for years prior to this.
 
lol don't count on it, that would throw the art.5 of NATO out of the window entirely
Also Poland army is lacking the same important thing that Ukrainian army is lacking- decent and plentiful AA, which gives Russians almost unopossed air superiority


If by Modern History you mean since ca XVII century, then more or less 3 times, or 2 times if you count WWII as one steamrolling (not a history pro, so don't quote me on that). In the same timeframe saved Europe from Ottoman empire and won a war against Soviet Union once. So it's a mixed bag really
1) Article 5 seems to have been mostly irrelevant in modern times. Poland can send sabotage groups into Ukraine to undermine the Russian effort and get away with it. Hell, I'm pretty sure that's what NATO is doing now, Ukrainians are actively counter-attacking now and I guarantee that it is with external help. People don't seem to understand how important it is for Russia to overwhelmingly win this, if they get defeated, get bogged down or achieve a Pyrrhic victory at best, this is a failure.

2) Pilsudski only really won against the Soviet Union in the 1920s because the Bolsheviks were too busy fighting a civil war and conflicts against several other states simultaneously and didn't try too hard to hold onto Poland. Same goes for the Ottoman Empire, who only got caught off-guard by the Polish at Vienna because the Crimean warlord they hired to cover their flanks decided to defect because he wasn't getting paid enough and it barely put a dent in Ottoman operations in Europe in the long run.
 
There are rumors that Russia is preparing for an aerial bombardment of Kyiv. Could be an abundance of caution on the Ukrainians' part, since bombing a major civilian population would definitely be a serious escalation of violence.
One explanation I've heard is that the Ukrainians put up a much stronger resistance than the Russians expected, so the Russian army decided to rape them with some more artillery before trying another push.
 
I feel like Putin is using Muh Nazis rhetoric as a way of shitting on western media and their glorification of Antifa. I could be wrong but if I'm right that's hilarious.

Maybe partially but not entirely. People always got fined or jailed for neo-nazism, "racism," criticism of Russia's Muslim minority, etc. under Putin, as per his "anti-extremism" and "anti-racial hatred" legislation. He's just a really authoritarian Russian identity civic nationalist.

I'm sure he'd think it's funny if he knew how many American righties on 4chan are eager to believe he's some based and redpilled god emperor who's all about the freedom to say nigger.
 
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2) Pilsudski only really won against the Soviet Union in the 1920s because the Bolsheviks were too busy fighting a civil war and conflicts against several other states simultaneously and didn't try too hard to hold onto Poland. Same goes for the Ottoman Empire, who only got caught off-guard by the Polish at Vienna because the Crimean warlord they hired to cover their flanks decided to defect because he wasn't getting paid enough and it barely put a dent in Ottoman operations in Europe in the long run.
U wot m8? After Vienna in 1683 things immediately starting going downhill for the Ottomans. 1699 saw them hand Hungary over to the HRE, the first major loss of territory ever since their first invasion of Europe centuries prior, territory they would never again possess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Karlowitz
While they were able to hold their own against an Austria increasingly facing threats to its West, by the end of the 1700's Russia had begun forcing them from the Balkans and the Treaty of Kuchuk-Kainarji in 1774 placed the Orthodox subjects of the Ottomans under Russian protection, the first time the Ottomans had to abdicate authority over any of their peoples.
 
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