War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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JUST IN - Chechen paramilitary (known as Kadyrovites) have been mobilized and are preparing to depart for #Ukraine, according to the Russian news outlet Baza.

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"MORE - It is worth noting that the current footage from the live camera outside the mosque in Grozny does not show this gathering. So the footage must be days or weeks old."


"MORE - However, there is indeed evidence that Chechen kill squads have been sent to fight in Ukraine."


"MORE - Guardian journalist Neil Hauer has shared this footage of Chechen forces mobilization in Grozny."

 

Squad of Chechen special forces 'hunters' is unleashed in Ukraine to detain - or kill - Kyiv officials​


  • A squad of Chechen special forces 'hunters' has been ordered to detain or kill specific Ukrainian officials
  • The kill squad was pictured in a Ukrainian forest as they took part in prayer rituals ahead of potential fighting
  • It came after Ramzan Kadyrov, 45, the republic's leader and a close Putin ally, visited his forces in Ukraine
  • Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky, 44, said on Thursday he had been told there were Russian special forces in Kyiv hunting him down
  • He said his family were the second target on the 'kill list' issued by Moscow for senior Ukrainian government officials
A squad of Chechen special forces 'hunters' has been unleashed in Ukraine to detain or kill a set of specific Ukrainian officials.

Each soldier was reportedly given a special 'deck of cards' with Ukrainian officials' photos and descriptions on them, a Moscow Telegram channel with links to the security establishment reported.

The list is of officials and security officers suspected of 'crimes' by the Russian Investigative Committee, the report added.

It came as Ukraine's president admitted he is 'target number one' for Russian assassins in his capital, while his family is 'the number two goal' for Putin's hitmen.

The Chechen squad is thought to be in a Ukrainian forest and was allegedly given an 'order to kill' if those on the wanted list could not be detained.

There is speculation those identified by Moscow as 'Nazis' would also be on the hunted list.

Putin previously said a key aim of invading Ukraine was to 'deNazify' the country.

State TV in Chechnya reported that Ramzan Kadyrov, 45, the republic's leader and a close Putin ally, had visited his forces in Ukraine.

The Chechens are believed to be from the South battalion of the Federal Guard Service, based in Chechnya.

Kadyrov yesterday met with Viktor Zolotov, director of the Federal National Guard Service and Commander-in-Chief of the Russian National Guard Forces, another close Putin ally.

Volodymyr Zelensky, 44, addressed the nation on Thursday night, at the end of the first day of the Russian invasion of his country.

The former TV comedian insisted he had remained in Kyiv as he urged his fellow citizens to stay strong.

He said he was speaking from Kyiv but the elegance of the presidential palace was long gone: Zelensky, in his olive green t-shirt, appeared to be speaking from a bunker.

'I know that a lot of misinformation and rumours are being spread now,' he said.

'In particular, it is claimed that I have left Kyiv. I remain in the capital, I am staying with my people,' he said.

Zelensky said his family also remained in the country - his wife Oleana, a 44-year-old architect and screenwriter, and their two children: daughter Aleksandra, 17, and son Kiril, nine.

'My family is not a traitor, but a citizen of Ukraine,' he said, adding that he would not reveal their location.

'According to our information, the enemy marked me as the number one target. My family is the number two goal.

'They want to destroy Ukraine politically by destroying the Head of State.'

President Zelensky has also expressed his anger at Western rulers after his country was 'left alone' to face Russian troops as officials warn that Kyiv will be seized by this weekend.

He called his fallen compatriots 'heroes' after 137 were killed on the first day of fighting, and insisted he will stay until the bitter end.

He said: 'They're killing people and turning peaceful cities into military targets. It's foul and will never be forgiven.

'We have been left alone to defend our state. Who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone.

'Who is ready to give Ukraine a guarantee of NATO membership? Everyone is afraid.'

He said they believed Russian special forces were already in the capital.

'We also have information that sabotage groups of the enemy have entered Kyiv,' he said.

'That's why I am urging Kyivites: be careful, follow the rules of curfew. I remain in the government quarter together with all those who are necessary for the work of the central government.'

The Ukrainian capital is expected to be surrounded by Russian forces this weekend and the country's resistance effectively crippled, US security officials fear.

Troops are already closing in on the seat of Ukrainian power after taking control of the strategic Chernobyl nuclear power plant earlier on Thursday, and will seize it within 96 hours, bringing a 'new Iron Curtain' down on Europe, Zelensky warned.

In the early hours of Friday, explosions were heard across the capital, Kyiv, and air raid sirens rang out.

Ukraine's deputy defense ministry said that one missile was shot out of the sky by their anti-missile defense systems.

Another missile struck a residential building in the city, the government said.

A Russian jet, was shot down by a surface-to-air missile in a separate incident, the Ukrainian government said.

Ukrainian Interior Ministry adviser Anton Gerashenko shared footage on social media of a blaze in what he said was the Darnitsky district of Kyiv, in the southeast of the city on the left bank of the Dnipro river.

Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, said today will be the war's 'hardest day'.

Once Kyiv is surrounded, US intelligence believes the plan will be for Russian special forces to move in and seize an airport - likely Sikorsky or Boryspil - which would then be used to fly in a much larger force of up to 10,000 paratroopers who would assault the capital.

The job of the paratroopers would be to enter the city, find Zelensky, his ministers, and parliamentarians, before forcing them to sign a peace deal handing control of the country back to Russia or a Moscow-backed puppet regime - effectively ending the war without Putin's ground forces needing to complete the difficult and bloody task of seizing and occupying the whole country.

It appears the Russians almost pulled off the plan on the first day of the invasion when 20 attack helicopters landed a crack team of troops at Antonov Airport, 15 miles to the north of Kyiv.

Ukrainian national guard units managed to retake the landing strip overnight after heavy fighting, scattering the surviving Russian attackers into the surrounding countryside.

The military may last slightly longer but this isn't going to last long.'

A source close to the Ukrainian government said they agreed that Kyiv will be surrounded within 96 hours but believed the government will stay strong and not collapse.

In a bid to thwart the imminent capture of the city, Emmanuel Macron spoke to Vladimir Putin on Thursday night, who gave the French leader an 'exhaustive' explanation of his justification for war.

The Kremlin said the call took place at Macron's initiative, and he and Putin agreed to stay in contact.

Zelensky has also signed a decree on the general mobilisation of the population within 90 days, but men aged 18-60 are banned from leaving the country.

Speaking after the latest developments, Joe Biden announced more sanctions against Russia but admitted that he had not expected previous threats of financial penalties to deter Putin.

He also resisted calls to send in US troops to Ukraine, saying he has no plans to speak to the Russian leader who he accuses of trying to rebuild a Soviet empire.

The sanctions will target Russian banks, oligarchs, state-controlled companies and high-tech sectors, but Russian oil and natural gas were exempt in a bid to avoid disruption to global markets.

'Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences,' Biden said in remarks at the White House.

Putin personally gave the order to attack around 5am on Thursday, unleashing a salvo of rocket fire that American intelligence said involved more than 100 short and medium-range ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles, and 75 bombers that targeted military sites including barracks, warehouses and airfields in order to knock out the country's military command structure.

Russia said the strikes destroyed 74 Ukrainian military ground facilities, 11 airfields, three command posts and 18 radar stations controlling Kyiv's anti-aircraft batteries.

That was followed by attacks from Crimea in the south towards the city of Kherson, a northern advance from Belarus to Kyiv, and an eastern advance from Belgorod towards Kharkiv where the heaviest fighting is going on.

American officials said this was merely an 'initial phase' of the attack, and that the majority of Russia's 190,000 troops at the front remain in reserve.

The goal of the attack is to 'take key population centres' and 'decapitate the Ukrainian government', the officials added.

Ukraine's health ministry said so far 137 people have been killed on the first day of conflict, while 300 have been wounded.

The port cities of Mariupol and Odessa, where Ukraine's main naval bases are located, were also attacked - though Odessa appeared to remain under Ukrainian control as of Thursday afternoon. Russian tankers blockaded the Kerch Strait, leading from the Back Sea to the Sea of Azov, cutting off Mariupol.

Ukraine has hit back, shooting down five Russian helicopters, destroying dozens of tanks and capturing Russian troops.

A Russian AN-26 military transport aircraft also crashed in the southern Voronezh region, killing its crew on board.

The accident could have been caused by a technical failure and has not inflicted any damage on the ground, Interfax said, citing a press office of Russia's western military district.

In the address to his nation, Zelensky also described Russia as 'evil' and said Putin had attacked 'like a suicidal scoundrel... just as Fascist Germany did in World War II'.

'Ukraine will not surrender its freedom, whatever Moscow thinks,' he added.

'For Ukrainians independence and the right to live free on our land is the highest value.'

He had earlier called on all Ukrainian citizens willing to defend their homeland to step forward, saying guns will be issued to everyone who wants one.

He also asked for civilians to give blood to help wounded troops.

And he asked world leaders to impose the 'harshest sanctions possible' on Putin.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, addressing the nation at midday, said western allies are preparing a 'massive' package of sanctions against Russia and told the people of Ukraine: 'We cannot and will not just look away.'

Johnson referred to Putin as a 'dictator' who would never 'subdue the national feeling of the Ukrainians'.

As the West prepared to cut off Russia financially, Vladimir Putin summoned his oligarchs to demand loyalty over his attack on Ukraine - perhaps fearing a rebellion from within after prominent Russian TV figures and celebrities spoke out to oppose the conflict.

Speaking in the Kremlin, he said that Russia had been 'forced' to take action over Ukraine and had 'no other choice' but to attack, saying the country remains 'part of the global economy' and that he 'will not hurt the system we belong to'.

He told them: 'I want you to show solidarity with the government.'


Exclusive: U.S. Expects Kyiv to Fall in Days as Ukraine Source Warns of Encirclement​


Three U.S. officials have told Newsweek they expect Ukraine's capital Kyiv to fall to incoming Russian forces within days, and the country's resistance to be effectively neutralized soon thereafter.

The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that Moscow's focus, as revealed in Russian President Vladimir Putin's references to a "special military operation" to "demilitarize" the neighboring country, would be to encircle Ukrainian forces and force them to surrender or be destroyed. They expect Kyiv to be taken within 96 hours, and then the leadership of Ukraine to follow in about a week's time.

And Russia's thunderous attacks on Ukrainian government and military institutions, paired with reports of ground personnel seeking to take strategic points, including the Chernobyl nuclear facility, appeared to only be the initial phase of what may be a more comprehensive ground campaign.


One former senior U.S. intelligence officer with extensive experience dealing with Russia expressed a similar sentiment.

"After the air and artillery end and the ground war really starts, I think Kyiv falls in just a few days," the former senior U.S. intelligence officer told Newsweek on the condition of anonymity as well.

"The military may last slightly longer," the former intelligence officer added, "but this isn't going to last long."

Afterward, the senior U.S. intelligence officer said the next stages may be determined by U.S. President Joe Biden's capability and willingness to risk further provoking Moscow by supporting partisan efforts on behalf of a potential Ukrainian resistance.

"Then it either becomes a robust insurgency or it doesn't, depending largely on Biden," the former senior U.S. intelligence officer said.

A source close to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's government, who also asked not to be named, agreed with the U.S. assessment that Kyiv could be surrounded within 96 hours. But the source did not believe Zelenskyy's government would collapse.

Asked by Newsweek whether the government was confident it could break a possible Russian encirclement, the source said, "I think it's too early to say...They say Ukraine is holding better than they expected."

A NATO diplomatic official, who also did not wish to be named as the official was not authorized to speak publicly on the subject, told Newsweek of the U.S. assessment: "My personal opinion: unfortunately, it does sound rather believable. However, I think now the first 24 hours are the most critical."

A statement from Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukraine's presidential chief of staff, and shared with Newsweek by Ukraine's embassy in Washington outlined what Kyiv suspected were Moscow's goals and the likelihood of Russian forces seizing government buildings in major cities.

"The Office of the President of Ukraine believes the Russian federation has two tactical goals – to seize territories and attack the legitimate political leadership of Ukraine in order to spread chaos and install a marionette government that would sign a peace deal on bilateral relations with Russia," Podolyak said. "The enemy attempts to destabilize [the] situation in large cities, in particular Kharkiv and Kyiv. The probability exists the Russian armed forces will seize the government quarters."

The Antonov Airport near the town of Hostomel, just outside Kyiv, was the scene of some of the most dramatic early fighting. Ukrainian Interior Ministry officials reported early Thursday that Russian helicopter-borne forces had seized the airfield, though fighting around it is believed to be ongoing.

The outcome could be pivotal to Ukraine's fate. The airport is 15 miles west of Kyiv. If secured by Russian troops, Antonov could become a springboard for an assault on the capital.

"Let's see if they can counter," the Ukrainian source said of the Ukrainian troops at Hostomel.

Conflicting reports have emerged of whether Russian troops have captured or been repelled from various positions across the country. One notable site was Chernobyl, where the world's worst nuclear disaster took place during the Soviet era in 1986 and had since been captured by Russian forces, according to Podolyak.

But clashes continued as both sides tallied the other's casualties.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces commander-in-chief Valerii Zaluzhnyi claimed earlier Thursday that Ukrainian troops have destroyed at least four Russian tanks and dozens of armored vehicles and downed up to six Russian planes and two helicopters. The Ukrainian Armed Forces then reported that Ukraine was targeted by four ballistic missiles from the direction of Belarus.

The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry's Crisis Center, for its part, reported more than 30 strikes with Kaliber cruise missiles, multiple-launch rocket systems, aircraft and artillery against Ukrainian civil and military infrastructure.

Russian Defense Ministry spokesperson Igor Konashenkov later said that "groups of troops of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics broke through the well-equipped echeloned defence of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, advanced 6-8 kilometers deep," a task "made possible thanks to the fire support of Russian artillery and army aviation."

"All tasks assigned to the groups of troops of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the day have been completed successfully," the spokesperson said.

He added that the "joint use of raiding detachments and airborne troops in the Crimean direction enabled Russian troops to reach the city of Kherson," an effort that "made it possible to unblock the North Crimean Canal and restore water supply to the Crimean peninsula."

"In total, as a result of the strikes of the Russian Armed Forces, 83 ground objects of the military infrastructure of Ukraine were disabled," the spokesperson added. "Since the beginning of the special military operation, two Su-27s, two Su-24s, one helicopter and four Bayraktar TB-2 attack unmanned aerial vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been shot down."

The list was later amended to also include Russia-built, Ukraine-operated S-300 and Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile systems, along with 11 airfields three command points and a naval base.

Putin's decision to invade Ukraine came late Wednesday as the Russian leader accused the fellow former Soviet republic of acting as a puppet to Western interests by seeking to join the U.S.-led NATO military alliance and acquire weapons to threaten Russia's national security.

"We have been left no other option to protect Russia and our people, but for the one that we will be forced to use today," Putin said. "The situation requires us to take decisive and immediate action."

Ukrainian officials have repeatedly denied that their country poses any threat to Russia. Amid an unprecedented Russian military buildup along Ukraine's borders, the Biden administration has warned for weeks that an incursion could begin at any time.

Newsweek reported Wednesday, prior to the beginning of the invasion, that the United States had warned Zelenskyy that a full-scale Russian invasion to include the use of airstrikes, missiles, ground troops and cyber attacks was anticipated to begin within 48 hours.

In the weeks and months leading up to the eruption of the conflict, Moscow had accused Washington of hyping up the possibility of a war. On Monday, however, Putin sent in troops he termed "peacekeepers," after offering recognition to two breakaway separatist states in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region, signaling that more military action might follow.

The self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics then appealed to the Russian leader for military support, which Putin granted.

The United States and its allies have roundly condemned Putin's actions. They have begun to introduce a series of sanctions designed to hurt Russia's economy and the wealth of influential officials within Putin's inner circle, as well as their family members.

After announcing sanctions against Russia's sovereign wealth fund, Biden added further economic restrictions against state-backed institutions during a televised address Thursday.

"President Putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering," Biden said. "Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring, and the United States and its allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way. The world will hold Russia accountable.

 
See, you couldn't be any strategic advisor because emotions are speaking to you. You're confusing "right" with "smart".

Let me explain it to you like I'd to any other emotionally charged observer.

If you have a female friend who's in abusive relationship with a crazy violent man and she'd like to leave but she's scared, you don't go to that man and tell him: hey Jenny is gonna leave you, cos you're a cunt, she's coming to live with me now. Right? You don't do that because that dude is gonna go nuts and go after both of you.

As for me being insane thinking ex soviet satelite countries would dare to join NATO since the fall of the iron curtain these countries have joined NATO:

1999: Poland, Czechia, Hungary
2004: Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia

These went on to join the EU too. Georgia tried in 2008 and we know what happened after the Bucharest Summit.
I don't know what to make of this metaphor. Ukraine isn't Russia's girlfriend. States have legal personality but they don't have the kind of interpersonal relationships natural persons do. Real women leave abusive men all the time and usually don't get carved up for it while everyone else stands around sending thoughts and prayers, muttering under their breath, "Bitch should've known this would happen." This isn't good strategic advice or personal advice.
 
Of course I don't support Russia, but would you blame em?
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I think I saw this earlier but I'll post it again because same vibe.
Saying No to the Banana Republic.jpg
 
I don't know what to make of this metaphor. Ukraine isn't Russia's girlfriend. States have legal personality but they don't have the kind of interpersonal relationships natural persons do. Real women leave abusive men all the time and usually don't get carved up for it while everyone else stands around sending thoughts and prayers, muttering under their breath, "Bitch should've known this would happen." This isn't good strategic advice or personal advice.

I didn't mean it in a victim blaming way. I'm just saying that even if sometimes you think you should have the right to do something, and the actions of your opponent are immoral, you do need to consider consequences of your actions and whether it's worth the price you're gonna pay.

Are you ok with the world going into WW3, which could result in god knows what from great depression to nuclear disaster, over a country like Ukraine.
 
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Live updates: Russia says its ready for talks with Ukraine​

The Kremlin says Russia is ready to send a delegation to Belarus for talks with Ukrainian officials.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin is ready to send the delegation in response to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s offer to discuss a non-aligned status for Ukraine.

That indicates Zelenskyy would be willing to negotiate dropping his country’s bid to join NATO, as Russia has demanded.

Before the invasion, the West had rejected the demand. Putin claimed the refusal to discuss keeping Ukraine out of NATO prompted him to order a military action in Ukraine to “demilitarize” it.

VILNIUS, Lithuania — Lithuania’s Radio and Television Commission has temporarily suspended the operation of six Russian-language TV channels for their alleged incitement to war and propaganda.

The six TV channels were taken off the air Friday

Planeta RTR, Rossijya 24, Belarus 24, NTV Mir, RTR Planeta and Rossiya 24 were suspended for five years, and PBK and TVCI for three years, commission Vice Chairman Ricardas Slapsys told the Baltic News Service.

Lithuania, the most southern of the three Baltic nations, borders Russia’s Kaliningrad region to the southwest, Belarus to the east, Latvia to the north and Poland to the south.

Latvia banned several Russian television channels had their right to broadcast in Latvia suspended Thursday for several years.

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MOSCOW — The Russian military claims it has taken control of an airport just outside Kyiv, as Kremlin forces bear down on the Ukrainian capital.

The claim could not be independently verified.

Taking possession of the airport in Hostomel, which has a long runway allowing the landing of heavy-lift transport planes, would mean Russia can airlift troops directly to Kyiv’s outskirts.

Hostomel is just 7 kilometers (4 miles) northwest of the city.

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Friday that the Russian airborne forces used 200 helicopters to land in Hostomel and killed over 200 troops belonging to Ukraine’s special forces.

Konashenkov claimed that Russian troops suffered no casualties. That contradicts Ukrainian claims that Russian troops sustained heavy casualties in the fighting there.

___

BERLIN — Germany’s Defense Ministry has confirmed media reports that it is deploying additional military assets to NATO’s eastern flank.

German weekly Der Spiegel reported that the deployments included 150 soldiers and about a dozen Boxer armored fighting vehicles, two ships and anti-missile systems

Ministry spokesman Christian Thiels declined to say Friday exactly how many soldiers were being deployed. But he confirmed that a navy corvette would leave Saturday for patrols in the Baltic while a frigate will be deployed in the Mediterranean, both under NATO command.

Germany is also assessing whether to deploy Patriot anti-missile systems to an eastern European NATO country, Thiels said.

Decisions on deploying further troops could be expected soon, he added.

 
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Are you ok with the world going into WW3, which could result in god knows what from great depression to nuclear disaster, over a country like Ukraine.
Yes. This entire globalization thing was a gigantic fucking mistake that turned the world into a conflict bubble as conflicting culture from various races constantly clashed against each other. It also made the world too overly dependent on each other rather than having each country have their own reserves/resources/manpower, turning most countries past the G7 and the superpowers into shitholes where majority of humanity resides. It is a shit outcome but what did you expect? Were you expecting that every fucking one was going to accept one other race like Jews/Asians/Chinks for years until forever?

That is how the world worked ever since the Assyrians stepped into the world map.
 
Think you misunderstand, its not that they're insane joining NATO - that's the smart thing to do - it's insane to think these countries would ever agree to be a neutral border state next to Russia.

It's the difference between staying with the abusive boyfriend because he said he'd change this time and getting out of there and shacking up with an MMA fighter.

Joining NATO works, Russia doesn't like NATO because it is an effective check on their Westward expansion. Based on their performance on the past few days, they would get sent packing if they tried it.

That's a fair point. But the problem is we have just decided to start WW3, with already crippled global economy and other post coof problems, over a country like Ukraine.

If you're saying that NATO already is stronger and would send Russia packing then why the fuck do we need to recruit new members no matter the consequences?
 
"US State Dept. issues new alert reminding Americans in Ukraine that the US will not be helping citizens evacuate. "Know the location of your closest shelter or protected space. In the event of mortar and/or rocket fire, follow the instructions from local authorities…” "

 
That's a fair point. But the problem is we have just decided to start WW3, with already crippled global economy and other post coof problems, over a country like Ukraine.

If you're saying that NATO already is stronger and would send Russia packing then why the fuck do we need to recruit new members no matter the consequences?
It's not going to be WW3 unless there is a major miscalculation.

NATO would fuck Russia up beyond belief based on the Russian performance in Ukraine. Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a harder target, and yet half way across the world the Western Allies waltzed in after flattening them with a month long aerial bombardment. Russia can't do that against a weaker opponent on their doorstep.

It's not that we need new members, it's more that it allows other nations protection and prevents Russia - and potentially other threats - from bullying and absorbing smaller nations. If Ukraine was in NATO, this wouldn't be happening.

Consider this, Russia on the first day of invading a nation used around 150ish cruise missiles. When punishing Syria for chemical weapons in 2018, the US alone launched 100 tomohawks as a punishment strike - much better quality than the Russian equivalent - and the UK and France added I think another 20 to that total. The disparity in capabilities between Western forces and Russia is dramatic.

Some of these Russian tactics of massed helicopter and armour assaults are almost cold war era, except we wouldn't be using ambush tactics with NLAWs, it would be storm shadows and other stand off munitions turning them in burning heaps from 50km off.
 
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It's not going to be WW3 unless there is a major miscalculation.

NATO would fuck Russia up beyond belief based on the Russian performance in Ukraine. Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a harder target, and yet half way across the world the Western Allies waltzed in after flattening them with a month long aerial bombardment. Russia can't do that against a weaker opponent on their doorstep.

It's not that we need new members, it's more that it allows other nations protection and prevents Russia - and potentially other threats - from bullying and absorbing smaller nations. If Ukraine was in NATO, this wouldn't be happening.

Consider this, Russia on the first day of invading a nation used around 150ish cruise missiles. When punishing Syria for chemical weapons in 2018, the US alone launched 100 tomohawks as a punishment strike - much better quality than the Russian equivalent - and the UK and France added I think another 20 to that total. The disparity in capabilities between Western forces and Russia is dramatic.

The difference is that Russia has nuclear arsenal, Iraq didn't. Yes I know NATO and EU probably also have nuclear weapons but who the fuck would even want to go there.

Furthermore, we don't know whether Russia's shitty attack isn't strategic before they go all in, maybe hoping the west will back down at the last minute. I mean most people didn't believe Russia was gonna do anything at all.

We're just gonna have to wait and see I guess.
 
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