War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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afraid of what? 1945 finns and moderns days finns are 2 completely separate species, or they may as well be.
finns are some of the most comfortable, privilaged people on planet earth. a modern diet of soy and watching internet all day, does not a soldier make. the only things it makes are Myopic Chuds who would never choose to die for Ukraine. and the few tough conservative finns whos would dont want to die at the command of people that show contempt for them.
Then why the hell would Putin even bother threatening them? Again, you only make that kind of threat, that specific threat, (Finland hasn't gotten involved yet, BTW) unless you fear their involvement. Putin making that threat is his reaction to his own fear of Finnish involvement. If he didn't fear the Finns, he wouldn't bother threatening them at all, since there would be nothing to threaten.

This comes at the heels of the fact that he hasn't taken Kiev despite having an overwhelming numerical advantage, and no NATO forces getting involved. If he took Kiev in a day and made that threat, it would be terrifying. But now? It just seems like he genuinely fears someone else butting in on the war that he's currently screwing up.
 

Ukraine's parliament passed a law allowing citizens to carry firearms, and a local NGO official said 'there's a feeling that Ukrainians will fight'​


  • The Ukrainian parliament passed a law on Wednesday which allowed citizens to carry guns in public.
  • Previously, citizens could only have firearms in private.
  • According to the Guardian, gun stores in Kyiv are selling out following the news.
The Ukrainian parliament passed a law on Wednesday, which allows citizens to carry firearms in public, alongside the enactment of a state of emergency, after Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to eastern Ukraine on Monday.

Previously, Ukrainian citizens were barred from carrying guns outside of their homes.

"Now it's the intention of the parliament is to liberalize ownership of armaments by citizens," Dmytro Shulga, the European Programme Director at the International Renaissance Foundation, an NGO in Kyiv, told Insider. "And I think that this is very popular news now."

The passage of the law followed the approval of a state of emergency in Ukraine.

On Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops into Ukraine's eastern Donbas region, recognizing the Donetsk and Luhansk regions as independent people's republics as opposed to belonging to Ukraine.

In the weeks prior, the Kremlin has mobilized more than 150,000 Russian troops along Ukraine's borders.

Prior to parliament voting in favor of the state of emergency measures on Wednesday, Ukrainian officials were told Tuesday morning local Kyiv time by US intelligence officials that Russia will likely begin an invasion into eastern Ukraine within the next 48 hours.

According to the Guardian, gun stores in Kyiv are selling a much higher volume of guns than usual, including AR-10s and AR-15s. The report added that close to 400,000 Ukrainians have combat experience.

Shulga added that he believed that with its own training and US and EU military backing, the Ukrainian army itself is better trained than in 2014.

"There's a feeling that Ukrainians will fight. I see it. I observe it," Shulga, who as of Wednesday afternoon has been carrying on with his daily life, told Insider. "If the Russians want to come to our home, we will meet them."
Ukraine should've had open-carry from the start imo.
 
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Has anyone seen this man? He was one of my contacts in Ukraine. I haven't heard from him since last night. He told me he needed to go off camera for a moment to check on a pot of soup that he had on the stove. A few minutes later I heard shattering glass and some groans. It has been almost 20 hours now. I really hope he's OK.
 
afraid of what? 1945 finns and moderns days finns are 2 completely separate species, or they may as well be.
finns are some of the most comfortable, privilaged people on planet earth. a modern diet of soy and watching internet all day, does not a soldier make. the only things it makes are Myopic Chuds who would never choose to die for Ukraine. and the few tough conservative finns whos would dont want to die at the command of people that show contempt for them.
That doesn't mean he wants to open up another front, one that does not get him anything.
 
Are you ok with the world going into WW3, which could result in god knows what from great depression to nuclear disaster, over a country like Ukraine.
>Are you okay with the world going to war over Austria
>Are you okay with the world going to war over the Sudetenland
>Are you okay with the world over the rest of Czechoslovakia
etc etc etc. At a certain point you have to be willing to fight these assholes over the minor shit, because if you don't you'll eventually be fighting them over the majors, unless you somehow think Putin will totally stop if he gets what he wants in Ukraine

>Inb4 we should have just let Hitler have everything he wanted because then the world would magically be a totally better place etc etc
Some of these Russian tactics of massed helicopter and armour assaults are almost cold war era, except we wouldn't be using ambush tactics with NLAWs, it would be storm shadows and other stand off munitions turning them in burning heaps from 50km off.
They're not almost cold war era, they're exactly cold war era, which is weird. We demonstrated conclusively years ago that those tactics are shite in a modern combat scenario (absent complete and overwhelming air superiority as well). I can only assume Putin for some reason thought the Ukranians wouldn't fight, because it was pretty clear that while NATO wouldn't be poutting boots on the ground they've been shipping ATGMs and MANPADs to the ukranians like they're going out of style, and that's a hard counter to his attempted zerg rushes.

The only problem is, modern Russia's replacement rate makes losing large numbers of men unsustainable. At least back in the old Tsarist or Soviet days, they didn't have the massive scale of modern, on-demand abortion that's as common as getting groceries.
The other problem is the morale side of it. Not just amongst the troops, but the population as a whole. it's a hell of a lot easier to absorb those kind of casualties when you can convince people it's for a good cause.
 
>Are you okay with the world going to war over Austria
>Are you okay with the world going to war over the Sudetenland
>Are you okay with the world over the rest of Czechoslovakia
etc etc etc. At a certain point you have to be willing to fight these assholes over the minor shit, because if you don't you'll eventually be fighting them over the majors, unless you somehow think Putin will totally stop if he gets what he wants in Ukraine
Considering that he's stuck in a USSR mindset, he's not going to stop until he gets to East Germany and Berlin.

>Inb4 we should have just let Hitler have everything he wanted because then the world would magically be a totally better place etc etc
Basically, that's why I lost faith in the libertarian movement. It seemed to just be a movement to justify letting assholes have their cake and eat it too.

They're not almost cold war era, they're exactly cold war era, which is weird. We demonstrated conclusively years ago that those tactics are shite in a modern combat scenario (absent complete and overwhelming air superiority as well). I can only assume Putin for some reason thought the Ukranians wouldn't fight, because it was pretty clear that while NATO wouldn't be poutting boots on the ground they've been shipping ATGMs and MANPADs to the ukranians like they're going out of style, and that's a hard counter to his attempted zerg rushes.
And unlike the Zerg Swarm, which can brush off casualties and replace them like it's nothing, it takes a generation to raise new Russian soldiers, and their families won't be happy seeing their boys get blown to bits by NATO weapons wielded by Ukrainians. Especially since there are families that have members on Russia AND Ukraine. This war is a literal nightmare for such families.

The other problem is the morale side of it. Not just amongst the troops, but the population as a whole. it's a hell of a lot easier to absorb those kind of casualties when you can convince people it's for a good cause.
Exactly. WW1 went on for years because the people genuinely believed they were fighting for God and country. And usually, nations who fight wars have high morale at the start, then they slowly trickle down in terms of morale until morale gets low enough that they'd sue for peace. Russia began this war with low morale, and it doesn't look like it's going to get any higher. Even if they take Kiev, would the men fighting in Putin's army believe that the deaths of their comrades was worth it?
 
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How are the UK calculating deaths? I really don't get it. Russia has 5x the casulties despite the fact that several regions are already under Russian control?

I don't know if I believe these numbers.
 
How are the UK calculating deaths? I really don't get it. Russia has 5x the casulties despite the fact that several regions are already under Russian control?

I don't know if I believe these numbers.
The same thing happened with China and the Korean War. They took entire regions by climbing over the bodies of their dead.

And considering that, as others have pointed out here, that the Russians are using Cold War-era tactics, the casualty numbers would match up to their tactics.
 

Australia seeks to join global move to hit Putin with sanctions​

Australia seeks to join others in imposing direct sanctions on Putin and has extended its punitive financial measures to members of Russia’s parliament and more oligarchs, Foreign Minister Marise Payne has said.

“It is an exceptional step to sanction leaders, but this is an exceptional situation,” Payne said at a press conference, adding that the government is seeking advice on how to follow other nations in the move.

“Vladimir Putin has unparalleled personal power over his country and he has chosen to go to war against a neighbour that posed no threat to Russia, because he wants to reverse history and take away the freedom and the democracy that the Ukrainian people chose for themselves.”

In its new sanctions, Payne said Australia will target 339 members of the State Duma, the lower house of Russian parliament and eight more oligarchs. The new measures follow a series of Australian sanctions announced earlier in the week.





Ukraine says two commercial ships hit by Russian missiles near Odessa port​

Ukraine has said Russian warships shelled a Moldovan-flagged chemical tanker and a Panamanian-flagged cargo ship due to load grain near Odessa port in the Black Sea.

A total of three non-military vessels have now been hit since the start of the invasion. On Thursday, the Turkish-owned Yasa Jupiter cargo ship was struck off Odessa.

 

White House asks Congress for $6.4bn for Ukraine crisis​


The White House asked Congress to approve $6.4bn in aid to address the Ukraine crisis, including $2.9bn in security and humanitarian assistance and $3.5bn for the Department of Defense, Biden administration and congressional aides have said.

“In a recent conversation with lawmakers, the administration identified the need for additional US humanitarian, security, and economic assistance to Ukraine and Central European partners due to Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified invasion,” an official from the White House Office of Management and Budget said.

Make that money machine go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
 
How are the UK calculating deaths? I really don't get it. Russia has 5x the casulties despite the fact that several regions are already under Russian control?

I don't know if I believe these numbers.
At this point I think they're either making optimistic guesses for morale or just straight up lying. Maybe a bit of both. It's not like Ukrainian officials would tell the world of an entire greenhorn battalion being decimated and turning tail and I can't blame them there.
 
At this point I think they're either making optimistic guesses for morale or just straight up lying. Maybe a bit of both. It's not like Ukrainian officials would tell the world of an entire greenhorn battalion being decimated and turning tail and I can't blame them there.
If Covid has taught us anything, everything publically reported can be assumed to be a lie until confirmed otherwise. In several cases they openly admitted they had lied just to make things easier for their needs.
 
>Are you okay with the world going to war over Austria
>Are you okay with the world going to war over the Sudetenland
>Are you okay with the world over the rest of Czechoslovakia
etc etc etc. At a certain point you have to be willing to fight these assholes over the minor shit, because if you don't you'll eventually be fighting them over the majors, unless you somehow think Putin will totally stop if he gets what he wants in Ukraine

>Inb4 we should have just let Hitler have everything he wanted because then the world would magically be a totally better place etc etc
It's been a weird aspect of this whole conflict seeing people equating a regular Democratic country like Ukraine to Afghanistan, arguing that if there was a defense of Ukraine that it's like trying to install a foreign style society into Afghanistan where the soldiers there didn't even want to fight for it. I could understand early on saying Putin was just taking some village on the border (that most would end up evacuating) so it's insane to get into a conflict to defend it, but then he continued on with trying to essentially take over an entire European country.

I can even understand the idea of not wanting to send American soldiers on the ground, but then you have people equating sending Ukrainians weapons so they can defend themselves to putting Americans in harms way. It's all a bit strange and performative as though they've overdosed on political memes and are trying to shove every new situation they come across into some old meme they remember no matter how little sense it makes. I can't see how else people could look at a bunch of patriotic Ukrainians fighting against an invasion and think helping them is identical to helping some kiddy fucking Muslim in the middle east by having US soldiers act as a permanent police force for them.

Anyway, to keep things more relevant to the thread, there was apparently Ukraine is claiming they shot down a Il-76 plane that would have been carrying about a 100 paratroopers and there was an additional report a short while ago of them shooting down a second of the same type.

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Alright, I'm gonna pose an autistic theory here and no one should take this seriously until someone who knows what they are talking about verifies it as possible.

Ok, so in the HBO series of Chernobyl, I distinctly remember there were talks that the meltdown could have affected the river nearby and effectively poisoned a main water supply for almost all of Europe. It was only one of many types of fallout disasters prevented there, but I am wondering - could Putin hypothetically hold Europe hostage if he threatens to do that intentionally?

For anyone who might be thinking "he could just use a regular nuke to do that" not necessarily, or at least not to the same effect if I understand correctly. If I'm not mistaken, the radioactivity idling in Chernobyl dwarfs that of any existing nuclear weapon. Secondly, the material's radioactivity is longer lasting than a single nuclear explosion. Thirdly, it's precisely that: not a nuclear explosion. Obviously the world wouldn't take that kind of action while sitting down, but it certainly doesn't pose as much of a threat of worldwide nuclear warfare as launching a missile.

Again, this is just spit balling and I know I'm probably wrong on like 20 different things here.
 
Alright, I'm gonna pose an autistic theory here and no one should take this seriously until someone who knows what they are talking about verifies it as possible.

Ok, so in the HBO series of Chernobyl, I distinctly remember there were talks that the meltdown could have affected the river nearby and effectively poisoned a main water supply for almost all of Europe. It was only one of many types of fallout disasters prevented there, but I am wondering - could Putin hypothetically hold Europe hostage if he threatens to do that intentionally?

For anyone who might be thinking "he could just use a regular nuke to do that" not necessarily, or at least not to the same effect if I understand correctly. If I'm not mistaken, the radioactivity idling in Chernobyl dwarfs that of any existing nuclear weapon. Secondly, the material's radioactivity is longer lasting than a single nuclear explosion. Thirdly, it's precisely that: not a nuclear explosion. Obviously the world wouldn't take that kind of action while sitting down, but it certainly doesn't pose as much of a threat of worldwide nuclear warfare as launching a missile.

Again, this is just spit balling and I know I'm probably wrong on like 20 different things here.
This is like bad video game villain plan shit.
 
Alright, I'm gonna pose an autistic theory here and no one should take this seriously until someone who knows what they are talking about verifies it as possible.

Ok, so in the HBO series of Chernobyl, I distinctly remember there were talks that the meltdown could have affected the river nearby and effectively poisoned a main water supply for almost all of Europe. It was only one of many types of fallout disasters prevented there, but I am wondering - could Putin hypothetically hold Europe hostage if he threatens to do that intentionally?

For anyone who might be thinking "he could just use a regular nuke to do that" not necessarily, or at least not to the same effect if I understand correctly. If I'm not mistaken, the radioactivity idling in Chernobyl dwarfs that of any existing nuclear weapon. Secondly, the material's radioactivity is longer lasting than a single nuclear explosion. Thirdly, it's precisely that: not a nuclear explosion. Obviously the world wouldn't take that kind of action while sitting down, but it certainly doesn't pose as much of a threat of worldwide nuclear warfare as launching a missile.

Again, this is just spit balling and I know I'm probably wrong on like 20 different things here.
logically, that makes sense, i read somewhere in the thread that because the activity from tanks and shelling etc etc, that the "setteling pools" that caught the radioactivity and let it settle to the bottom, have been disturbed and agitated,

knowing putin leaking into the river is probably something he'd 100% do
 
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