War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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What the hell is with people making declarations that the Russians have failed after two days? Even the most curb-stomp of curb-stomps wasn't over in a fucking weekend.
Wars have ended before breakfast.

What's clear is Russia isn't having the progress it wants and is taking higher losses than one would expect.
 
As is rushing ground troops in before they have achieved air superiority.
You rush in ground troops AFTER you own the skies, so that they won't suddenly get blown to bits by enemy bombers. The fact that the Russians are making such amateur mistakes is both hopeful and puzzling. On the one hand, maybe this war will end soon with a truce, but on the other hand, did Putin really get rid of anyone with a brain in the Russian military? Damn, it's 1941 all over again. Except this time, Russia doesn't have an ally that will pump near-infinite supplies of food and war materiel into it. Unless of course, they turn to China, by which they can expect to get food poisoning for their men.

Wars have ended before breakfast.

What's clear is Russia isn't having the progress it wants and is taking higher losses than one would expect.
Considering that Ukraine is much smaller in size and is RIGHT NEXT DOOR to Russia, not to mention how modern technology speeds up warfare, this really speaks more about Russia's incompetence rather than Ukraine's will to fight.
 
I know that there is an information war going being fought just as much as a physical one, even on the Farms, and I'm willing to concede that good points have been made, but I simply can't agree with the whole "Lol if Russia doesn't have total control by now they failed" narrative that's being pushed.

Wars are hard to win, even for a more well-equipped army. Ukraine may have donated US weapons, but Russia probably has Chinese ones as well.

There are no good guys here. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia, just smaller. I'm not nessesarily rooting for Putin, but I'm sick of smug Western liberals, and want them taken down a peg.
This should make them peg their trannies with rage.

Heres an article suggesting that Russia is winning the battle for Kiev.

 
China is busy building up its navy before it would consider such an adventure. at the moment they're building 4 Aircraft carriers at once, they'll want overwhelming superiority in local regional assets, such a conflict would probably have one or two American battlegroups nearby versus 10 Chinese aircraft carriers and numerous escort ships, along with the ground based aircraft. The US would quickly withdrawal all forces far to the east of Taiwan and do nothing. Also this timetable is way out towards 2030 when these ships are completed, the US will also be substantially weaker by 2030 as well. An assault on Taiwan would yield the same level of kvetching and do-nothing that is occurring right now with Ukraine, these braindead nations have to understand by now that the West's promises of security are fraudulent. We're going to enter a decade or two where nobody will trust the US after the trifecta of Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine... this occurred right after Vietnam collapsed and absolutely no nation would take the US' assurances seriously until Desert Storm.
China is working on the third, has decided to finish already under construction #4, and cancelled all the ones after that. All of the Nuclear ones. Their experiments with Carriers have largely been a complete failure. It doesn't help that they started with what was arguably the worst Carrier ever built, bought for scrap from Ukraine no less. And before they had worked out just how bad that thing was they built their Carrier Doctrine around it and had 3 more under construction. Carrier #2 is so grossly over weight and rides so low in the water that it is unlikely to survive a seasonal Typhoon should it get out into the open ocean. The cycle rate of their carriers is well below anything resembling combat capable. Which is just as well as their Carrier aircraft is well below combat capable, and the delays failures and mismanagement of its replacement program is what is prompting China to rethink its whole Carrier dream.

The Chinese Navy does not have a long deep history of combat experience. What few offensive actions they have taken in the CCP's history is almost entirely that of bullying fishing boats in international waters and similar acts of low level piracy. They have no institutional experience of war fighting. (Well except for a few attempts to cross the Taiwan straight that ended rather badly. ) Which is generally fine for a coastal patrol Navy/Coast Guard. But is a detriment in a Blue Water Navy that seeks to project power. The only worrying piece of the Chinese Navy's fleet are its submarines. Which are reasonably capable.
 
I know that there is an information war going being fought just as much as a physical one, even on the Farms, and I'm willing to concede that good points have been made, but I simply can't agree with the whole "Lol if Russia doesn't have total control by now they failed" narrative that's being pushed.

Wars are hard to win, even for a more well-equipped army. Ukraine may have donated US weapons, but Russia probably has Chinese ones as well.

There are no good guys here. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia, just smaller. I'm not nessesarily rooting for Putin, but I'm sick of smug Western liberals, and want them taken down a peg.
This should make them peg their trannies with rage.

Heres an article suggesting that Russia is winning the battle for Kiev.

The Russians don't NEED Chinese weapons. They have plenty of their own, of equal or better quality and sophistication.

Nobody doubts the Russians can eventually take Kiev, if they are willing to pay the butcher's bill. Face it, having your capital so close to a border is like having your heart at the end of your index finger. Am sure the Ukrainians have long had contingency plans to displace should Kiev finally become untenable.
 
I know that there is an information war going being fought just as much as a physical one, even on the Farms, and I'm willing to concede that good points have been made, but I simply can't agree with the whole "Lol if Russia doesn't have total control by now they failed" narrative that's being pushed.

Wars are hard to win, even for a more well-equipped army. Ukraine may have donated US weapons, but Russia probably has Chinese ones as well.

There are no good guys here. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia, just smaller. I'm not nessesarily rooting for Putin, but I'm sick of smug Western liberals, and want them taken down a peg.
This should make them peg their trannies with rage.

Heres an article suggesting that Russia is winning the battle for Kiev.

Nobody is saying Russia is failing. What they are saying is Russia is coming across as much weaker, much more vulnerable and far less of a threat than anybody was expecting. And that will have far greater consequences for them than the on the ground outcome in Kyiv, or Ukraine in general. The Javelin's in particular are somewhat emasculating what has long been the most feared armored land force on the planet. The Russian Tank Brigades. The Ukrainians are fighting back harder that either Moscow or the World was expecting. Especially considering how quickly they were forced out of the East just a few years ago. And their avenues of fighting back are ones that can be kept up for long after Russian Tanks roll into the cities. Will Russia lose? I dunno, define lose. But they will be in for a rather more bloody fight than they were expecting. and one that has the potential to go on almost indefinitely. Did Russia win in Afghanistan? (Trick question, nobody wins in Afghanistan, especially not the citizens).
 
I know that there is an information war going being fought just as much as a physical one, even on the Farms, and I'm willing to concede that good points have been made, but I simply can't agree with the whole "Lol if Russia doesn't have total control by now they failed" narrative that's being pushed.

Wars are hard to win, even for a more well-equipped army. Ukraine may have donated US weapons, but Russia probably has Chinese ones as well.

There are no good guys here. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia, just smaller. I'm not nessesarily rooting for Putin, but I'm sick of smug Western liberals, and want them taken down a peg.
This should make them peg their trannies with rage.

Heres an article suggesting that Russia is winning the battle for Kiev.

That would be the case, if it wasn't for the fact that Ukraine is right next door, and Kiev is a stone's throw from the Belarusian border. Also, Chinese weapons? Everything in China from the skyscrapers to the food is rotten with corruption. Why would their guns be any better?

And no, there is good and evil here. Ukraine is corrupt, yes, but that doesn't justify Putin's aggression. He could have just done the smart thing, used military presence on the border to wring some concessions out of Ukraine, Sleepy Joe, and the west, and then sent the boys home. If I were him, I'd just keep bilking Sleepy Joe for more concessions while having the army hold glorified picnics at the Ukrainian border. Instead, Putin had to go and kill people, including innocent civilians, over stupid-ass politics. Also, Ukraine is just as based, if not more so, than the Russians, especially since they're willing to let fucking Neo-Nazis fight their wars for them, which no leftist would ever dare to do. The fact that Russia is invading them because "ERHMAHGERD, NAZIS!" is a sure sign that the Ukrainians are obviously not on the same side as the global left.

Winning Kiev is the easy part. Holding it is a different story altogether. I expected Russia to have conquered Kiev 18 hours ago. The fact that they're still trying to take it shows that they're having shits in this campaign.

China is working on the third, has decided to finish already under construction #4, and cancelled all the ones after that. All of the Nuclear ones. Their experiments with Carriers have largely been a complete failure. It doesn't help that they started with what was arguably the worst Carrier ever built, bought for scrap from Ukraine no less. And before they had worked out just how bad that thing was they built their Carrier Doctrine around it and had 3 more under construction. Carrier #2 is so grossly over weight and rides so low in the water that it is unlikely to survive a seasonal Typhoon should it get out into the open ocean. The cycle rate of their carriers is well below anything resembling combat capable. Which is just as well as their Carrier aircraft is well below combat capable, and the delays failures and mismanagement of its replacement program is what is prompting China to rethink its whole Carrier dream.

The Chinese Navy does not have a long deep history of combat experience. What few offensive actions they have taken in the CCP's history is almost entirely that of bullying fishing boats in international waters and similar acts of low level piracy. They have no institutional experience of war fighting. (Well except for a few attempts to cross the Taiwan straight that ended rather badly. ) Which is generally fine for a coastal patrol Navy/Coast Guard. But is a detriment in a Blue Water Navy that seeks to project power. The only worrying piece of the Chinese Navy's fleet are its submarines. Which are reasonably capable.
Considering the fact that corruption in Chinese construction projects extends to almost everywhere, along with their army of spoiled one-child generation soldiers and their lack of experience with naval battles, what the hell makes anyone think they're a genuine threat? Even the modern Imperial Japanese Navy, which is just a glorified peacekeeping force, is far more threatening than China's fleet.

There's a good reason why the PLA doesn't want another war. PLA commanders know that their soldiers aren't ready. It's just the dumbass politburo twats who promote this whole idea of war with Taiwan, and most of them won't lose anything in such a war since their kids will be safe at home, whereas many Chinese families would lose their only heir if they go to war and get killed out there. Which would obviously lead to discontent, not only among the families of the soldiers, but the military itself. Any dictator willing to make enemies out of his own people and his own army is asking for his head to be put on the chopping block.

Nobody doubts the Russians can eventually take Kiev, if they are willing to pay the butcher's bill. Face it, having your capital so close to a border is like having your heart at the end of your index finger. Am sure the Ukrainians have long had contingency plans to displace should Kiev finally become untenable.
That, and the fact is, taking Kiev is just step one of an invasion. Just as taking Baghdad was easy for the Americans, but holding it against insurgents was a whole different story.

Nobody is saying Russia is failing. What they are saying is Russia is coming across as much weaker, much more vulnerable and far less of a threat than anybody was expecting. And that will have far greater consequences for them than the on the ground outcome in Kyiv, or Ukraine in general. The Javelin's in particular are somewhat emasculating what has long been the most feared armored land force on the planet. The Russian Tank Brigades. The Ukrainians are fighting back harder that either Moscow or the World was expecting. Especially considering how quickly they were forced out of the East just a few years ago. And their avenues of fighting back are ones that can be kept up for long after Russian Tanks roll into the cities. Will Russia lose? I dunno, define lose. But they will be in for a rather more bloody fight than they were expecting. and one that has the potential to go on almost indefinitely. Did Russia win in Afghanistan? (Trick question, nobody wins in Afghanistan, especially not the citizens).
I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again, but the Soviets were much more powerful than Russia is now, and they got sent back home with their tails between their legs by some cave-dwelling goat-fuckers with American MANPADs. And the Ukrainians have more resources and allies than the Mujahadeen ever had. This is going to be just as bad as Afghanistan was for the USSR, if not worse.

Russia won't lose in the sense of Moscow getting threatened or something. More likely, the war will just bog down until both sides start talking again. But the fact that Russia's lethargic advance showed such weaknesses within its war machine means that the world won't fear Russia like they used to. And with their abysmal replacement rates, worsening economic prospects, and their inability to conquer a much smaller, weaker neighbor, all of this makes them less of a feared lion and more of a paper tiger. Their slow transformation into a third-world banana republic is almost complete.
 
What a lot of the people saying this isn't total failure are forgetting is that this was an obvious decapitation attempt of the country's capital city, at which they're currently struggling to capture after using swift & decisive attacks to move into the region, Kyiv is on the border and they still haven't taken it, they came in with momentum that just suddenly stopped to a crawl, you can expect this standoff to last maybe a week before something new happens.
 
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Kyiv is on the border and they still haven't take it
Kyiv is not on the border, it's a good distance from the Russian border, flanked by the Belarus border, and split by a river.
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What a lot of the people saying this isn't total failure are forgetting is that this was an obvious decapitation attempt of the country's capital city, at which they're currently struggling to capture after using swift & decisive attacks to move into the region, Kyiv is on the border and they still haven't take it, they came in with momentum that just suddenly stopped to a crawl, you can expect this standoff to last maybe a week before something new happens.
Especially when the enemy's capital is within spitting distance of friendly (Belarusian) borders. That gives Russia an enormous advantage, and Russia is still having a tough time. Fucking Germany got within a stone's throw of Moscow in WW2 and still lost after advancing deep into Russian territory, whereas Russia is struggling to take a city that's literally within driving distance of friendly borders. It's obvious that the momentum they had when the war started was their biggest advantage, that shock and surprise that sent the West reeling in fear, and now, it's slowed down to a crawl, and the longer it lasts, the weaker Russia looks, and the more determined the Ukrainians will be to fight. Which is more bad news for Russia.
 
Folks, you can bet the intelligence services of every major country in the world, plus the NATO command/other commands, have been paying VERY close attention to what has happened, is not happening, and didn't happen in this conflict. Guaranteed, certain of our alphabet agencies have been going all-out on this shit, have been for a while.

Added - Wonder if any NATO countries flying MiG-29s might be flying them, now in Ukrainian colors,to Lvov. Not a huge number but surely would help make up for combat losses. Could see aircraft parts coming in from the West, munitions, etc.
 
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Russia doesn’t exactly have an abundance of smart weapons so this will be a very common occurrence. Either way I would like to thank Ukraine and Russia for providing NATO with valuable combat data.
At which point you really have to question how they are going to seize Kyiv quickly.

They can't attack enemy forces with precision.

Their armoured vehicles are vulnerable to easily used, shoulder launched anti-tank weapons.

They don't know who is strapped up or not, and people can and will open fire on them when they have an opportunity.

They won't, at least for some time, be able to achieve any sort of local numerical superiority, and they've already shown their training isn't up to negating that.

No element of surprise, invasion shock or other to take advantage of. People know they're coming and are getting ready.

They could try and starve the city out I guess, but then it could devolve into siege of Sarajevo tier stuff.

All these "oh the Russians aren't losing" well, they're not meeting their own objectives. The Ukrainians aren't in disarray, and see to be united in this effort rather than looking for the door. Meanwhile, Russia is attempting opposed air assaults and landings, which makes them appear either insane, overstretched or inept. They're not losing, sure, but I don't know who would call this winning.
 
Kiev high rise got hit by a missile. No deaths reported for those who even care.



View attachment 3019795
There probably weren't any civilian casualties since they all moved into the basements or fled from the city/country.

I would hate for that to be my apartment/condo.
 
They could try and starve the city out I guess, but then it could devolve into siege of Sarajevo tier stuff.
A siege would be so stupid, Ukraine's Western border is completely open which gives plenty of routes for anybody to bring in supplies, including weapons.
 
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