Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

How well is the combat this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 46 6.6%
  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ A well planned strike with few faults

    Votes: 45 6.5%
  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 292 42.1%
  • ⭐⭐ Worse than expected

    Votes: 269 38.8%
  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 42 6.1%

  • Total voters
    694
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Reminder that Hitler's invasion of Poland ended with 17.000 german dead and 30.000 wounded and they didn't accomplish any major objectives within 48 hours of starting the offensive.

Can't say what Russian casualties will look like by the end but I will say that as far as I know they're doing ok.
 
White-on-white violence, niggers most affected.
View attachment 3023756
"Noooooo you can't complain that border patrol doesn't let you escape a country at war because of your skin color"
fq2di33t0x461.png
 
Propoganda alert but this is claimed to be one of the brave warriors of Snake Island


Attempted translation from the comments:

"Can’t understand him properly but from what we gather he says “we laid down weapons, it was all professional. No one got hurt. I thought it will be a lot worse. All normal” the rest, can’t understand"
"He talks about „heroes of Ukraine“ medal for them, „if they already buried us then it was all their plan to bury us“, then says what you said and in the end talks to the camera and says „hey,I’m still alive“"
"Yeah, we have the soldiers here, and they're doing great!"
"O rly? Put them on the phone right now."
"Uhhh... Negative, negative! We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak... very dangerous."
 
t's also pretty entertaining seeing two people at war, fighting by trying to out-shitpost the other. If you don't speak slav, you can translate the page through your browser. It works fairly well.
I don't have to visit Russian /pol/ to see that. And here on the farms I don't have to translate slav to English.
 
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This is getting bizarre. Aren't they Ukrainians on the side of globohomo through NATO? But doesn't globohomo support the replacement of Christian populations in Europe with Muslims? Don't the Ukrainians have literal neo-nazi units despite their president being a Jew?! Isn't Putin literally Hitler despite wanting to de-nazify Ukraine?!?!?

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON
>wildly different groups of people ally due to a common enemy

This isn't hard for someone without autism to understand
 
Reminder that Hitler's invasion of Poland ended with 17.000 german dead and 30.000 wounded and they didn't accomplish any major objectives within 48 hours of starting the offensive.

Can't say what Russian casualties will look like by the end but I will say that as far as I know they're doing ok.
"The Hussar of Warsaw has destroyed 6 German Panzers singlehanded. Sources familiar with his thinking report that Hitler is drip-feeding himself cyanide."
 
I'm not even against NATO including Ukraine. In fact that would have been a good thing given the circumstances. The problem is that the west has been enticing Ukraine for years, aided in a coup and then encouraged ukraine to take a mega hardline stance against Russia. The thing is, this wouldn't even have been a problem if they had let Ukraine into NATO, because Russia would not have dared attack NATO. But since they refuse, NATO has more or less knowingly paved the way for this invasion.
If I had any faith in the competence of strategic vision of our various executives, and a more conspiratorial mindset, seems like this has given the West every justification and more they could have ever dreamed of for striking the Russian economy. All for the sake of some irredentist dream of the Russian government or a legitimate belief that the disjointed States of America might gather a coalition to invade. I'm not really interested in who's to blame since morality kind of ceases to exist at the geo-level - just whether any of it was a good idea.
 
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Sounds like Illia might be a liar.

Seems desperate to start throwing their puppet manpower at the enemy
Not really, if you look at the way the brits used their colonies and dominions even up to ww2 you’ll see a lot of similarities and in some cases they were even worse than the ruskies (Boer war, battle of the some, galipoly, that one pre d day attack on normandy that saw a shit ton of canadians wiped out) and their puppet states were still loyal and in some repects are still loyal today.
 
I personally just don't agree with the reasoning behind the NATO argument. What would a Ukrainian NATO look like? Maybe a few more CIA listening posts closer to Russia? I cannot believe that the Russian government genuinely considered an invasion by some western coalition to have been even a remote possibility. Ukrainian admittance to NATO should not have been pushed by the West but I can't imagine that it would have really amounted to much.

The Russians were in a perfectly good position. Kazakhstan had been brought back into the fold, Crimea was taken without any real impact on the Russian state, Assad is still in and Belarus will eventually be de-facto annexed when the Union State project is completed (which will put the Union State on a border with NATO Poland anyway). Is what-ever Russia is going to get from the peace accords really worth the sanctions, the delaying of the German pipeline, and how expensive this thing is going to turn out to be?
NATO exists as an organization against Russia in its current form. It's probable that Russia is concerned that the U.S. and other Western powers could springboard into Western Russia (The most important part of Russia) from these nations should Russia do something America doesn't' like. The Crimea incident was met with a lot of criticism and Russia was kicked out of the G8 so it wasn't without loss. The conflict with Crimea was even more complex and more justified on Russia's ground given its history. Prior to the Crimean incident, Russia was satisfied with a Moscow friendly run Ukraine, but doesn't want its Black Sea port threatened further by the encroaching West. Indeed I'd argue Russia has no leg to stand on if NATO didn't exist or Russia was allowed to join NATO. However, Russia has been in isolation for decades.

As for the consequences, I think they didn't believe that it would go this far (in terms of the West's response) and I think Putin personally doesn't care. It was speculated that Putin has some goals (Pan-Russian ones) that he wanted to accomplish, but he is getting up there in age. I think he believes now is the time to accomplish those goals and that they need to be rushed (incorporating the Russian part of Ukraine and preventing further NATO encroachment) due to his age. Zelensky has been making numerous schizophrenic statements making bold and walking them back statements that make Putin uneasy.

He probably feels now is the time to act given the economic and social situation in the West to remove some of the lingering doubts he has.
 
If I had any faith in the competence of strategic vision of our various executives, and a more conspiratorial mindset, seems like this has given the West every justification and more they could have ever dreamed of for striking the Russian economy. All for the sake of some irredentist dream of the Russian government or a legitimate belief that the disjointed States of America might gather a coalition to invade. I'm not really interested in who's to blame since morality kind of ceases to exist at the geo-level - just whether any of it was a good idea.
My experience is lots of thing that can fall under the conspiracy umbrella, the powers walked into it, realised there's an opportunity for thing and then take hold of the thing.
 
Good American Morning to the Farms.

I used to think the Gulf Wars fried people's perception of war. Now I think it is even worse.

People are celebrating that Kyiv hasn't fallen after a mere, what? Three days after the start of the war? How strong must the Ukrainians be to have held the Russian Menace back!?! This is a major military disaster for PUTIN!!!!!!

Bullshit.

Or at the very least, being completely unrealistic in expectations.

Let me give you some numbers and statistics:


2nd battle of Fallujah:
Coalition forces had complete dominance in manpower, airpower, equipment, and training. The opposition had extremely little artillery, minimal anti-armor assets, effectively no air defenses, patchwork communications at best, basically no armored assets, and well over half of their forces had no real training to speak of. US and allied forces had quite a bit of time to surround the city and pre-position all major assets before the offensive to take the city started. And the city was effectively clear of civilians. Coalition forces outnumbered the insurgents by 3 to 1.

It still took a full five (5) days to take the city.

The most recent Battle for Raqqa:
Coalition forces, notably backed very heavily by US support assets, took 4 fucking months to take the city back from ISIS. That is with the assault force outnumber the ISIS forces by over 10 to 1, complete air dominance, extreme recon and intelligence overmatch, a monopoly on armor and artillery support, and US Spec Ops support. Many civilians had evacuated, and coalition forces din't care much about collateral since it wasn't an officially US lead operation (despite all the material support, notably artillery, which flattened the city).

Again, 4 months after having entered the city for the first time, and 3 months after having completely surrounded and cut off the town.

These two towns are tiny compared to the Ukrainian cities being talked about here. They are also being defended by forces which aren't illiterate 3rd world peasants, armed with nothing but zeal, knock-off AKs, and improvised explosives. And these battles were conducted mostly after the allied forces had secured the surrounding territory, and had complete freedom of preparation and movement. This as opposed to the ongoing Russian assaults which do no yet have that benefit.

To give another couple points of comparison:


The First Gulf War:
Five Weeks of air assaults lead-up to the breach.
A brilliant misdirection leading to an outflanking maneuver enabled by the then new GPS technology, combined with every technological advantage ever conceived of, was just the start of the advantages. Allied coalition forces outnumbered active military numbers for Saddam. Allied leadership had actual leadership capabilities, especially in comparison to the arab army. Widespread use of Smart Munitions made their combat debut.

It was a lightning fast campaign for something this size, and the ground assault lasted 13 days before Saddam called for a ceasefire.

The Second Gulf War:
Somehow the Allied Coalition forces setup an even more absurd overmatch the second go-around. The Iraqi Army really hadn't rebuilt its forces, and its conscripts knew it. Their moral was about as low as any force in history, and the surrender rates show it. US and coalition forces had even stronger technological advantages this time, and they used it and lessons learned from the previous war to maximal effect.

The US and Allied forces steamrolled their way across the country in just over 25 days.
_
To tell you all my point as explicitly as possible: Manage your expectations.

The Ukrainian military is reasonably well equipped. They have/had modern air defense systems, including many MANPADs. They have/had strong armored forces as well as anti-armor forces. They have/had a decently trained core of soldiers. And as importantly, they aren't Arabs. In addition to all this, the Russians still have their heavy armored and Artillery forces in reserve. They are being remarkably gently in this operations so far, considering that the usual MO for the Russian forces is to "Grozny" a city if it gives them any trouble (I expect this to change as time goes on).

Of course the Russians weren't going to take Kyiv in the first fucking 3-4 days of war. The only way that would have happened is if the Ukrainians stright-up surrendered. Which was unlikely.

Considering all this, the Russians are doing pretty damn well, and that is coming from someone rather pro-Ukrainian.

______
TL ; DR: Wars take a long time. City fights take forever and a day. The Russian Campaign is going rather well, despite some minor setbacks.
 
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