- Joined
- Jan 9, 2019
- Highlight
- #1
Quick intro to Jehovah's Witnesses and internet Ex-JWs
Glossary post here.
Most people know the Jehovah's Witnesses as the friendly oddballs knocking on your door on Saturday mornings or hanging around with a cart of leaflets on your commute.
They have a lot more sinister cult practices behind the scenes, including but not limited to: expecting members to inform on each other to the congregation elders so they can control what they think, do and say; keeping Catholic style secret databases of paedophiles in the congregations and spending members' donations on their legal defences for the resulting court cases; banning blood transfusions to the point of having elders who will visit you in hospital specifically to talk you out of it; "disfellowshipping" or shunning, where, like Scientology's disconnection policy, current members are made to cut all contact with anyone who leaves the church or who the elders judge to be guilty of sinning in some way (e.g. getting a blood transfusion), even if they're family.
The disfellowshipping policy leads to a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses leaving the organisation and finding themselves without any family and friends, so for a while there has been a growing ex-JW movement on the internet to provide that replacement support network. The various ex-JW communities do a lot of good helping people get out and build their lives and raising awareness about the dodgy things the Jehovah's Witnesses organisation and Watchtower do.
But when you grow up in an isolated hierarchical cult full of paranoia, manipulation and infighting, you don't always leave all that behind when you quit, which brings us to the subject of this thread.
Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
There's many ex-JW YouTubers with lolcow tendencies, but the most popular (and biggest cow) is James Lloyd Evans (he goes by Lloyd). He's the host of JWWatch (formerly JWSurvey.org) and has had his own channel since leaving the church in 2013. His channel is all about the cult's practices, reviewing its weird propaganda videos and internal documents that PIMOs have leaked to him, discussing each new legal trouble and scandal that the church is caught up in, and interviewing other ex-JWs about their experiences in the organisation.
When he first started the channel, he used the pseudonym John Cedars because he was a PIMO, and didn't want to have his real name attached to the videos he made voicing his doubts, since he could be disfellowshipped for that. He explains that he picked the name "Cedars" as a reference to an old JW convention in Cedar Point, Ohio where photos show them flying US flags, and then in a JWBroadcasting reenactment of it they removed the flags.
As for why he picked the name "John"... well, you'll see.
Life in the JWs
He actually gives a pretty concise summary of his early life on the site (archive). In which he describes how he became an elder in his local congregation - that is, responsible for "shepherding the flock of God" and dealing with discipline within the congregation.
Rather bafflingly, he includes a lot of detail about when his wife caught him cybering with "girls".
But these troubles were soon to pale into insignificance when my wife made a heartbreaking discovery. She learned that, though I hadn’t cheated on her, I had been fraternizing with girls on the internet in ways that I shouldn’t have done as a married man. I had a big issue with cyber sex and pornography, which I had developed as a teenager, and which remained with me even into my marriage.
I am not proud of my actions, and to this day I grimace at what I put my wife through. She has never been anything but loyal and loving, and it saddens me that I hurt her by betraying her trust so early in our marriage.
I also feel it was hypocritical of me to accept an appointment as an elder with the aim of helping others and offering spiritual guidance when I had so many issues of my own to contend with. I was living a double life and being dishonest with people.
Even so, I can’t help but consider these actions to be very much a by-product of sexual repression in my formative years. In particular, I think of the difficulties I had in finding a marriage partner from a narrow pool of Witness girls, and the unscriptural Watchtower injunctions designed to induce guilt over masturbation.
Of course, I accept responsibility for my actions and I do not blame Watchtower for everything. After all, plenty of Witnesses seem to develop into well-balanced adults without these problems.
But my wife and I both now realise that sexual repression in my upbringing was a major factor. It forced me into finding ways of satisfying my natural sexual urges as a virgin without intercourse so as to remain “morally clean,” and this led to an unhealthy dependency on the internet and pornography.
Once my wife discovered my problem we had a number of emotional exchanges. Decisions needed to be made. My first instinct was to sweep things under the rug and work things out between us, but in the end I decided to stand down as an elder and move back to the congregation I had grown up in to receive discipline.
Apart from anything else I knew I wouldn’t get a fair trial from the bully elder, who would doubtless want to make sure I suffered further for daring to question him. This matter involved my wife and I, and not him – so I chose to receive my punishment from elders I felt I could rely on to be impartial.
I wrote an exhaustive confession in a letter and posted it through the letter box of my new Coordinator. Before long I was summoned to a Judicial Committee and made to relive everything I had done in excruciating detail, despite my signed confession which had already explained everything.
At one point I remember being reduced to tears. By the end of it all, it was decided that I should be reproved and not disfellowshipped. However, my reproof was to be publicly announced both in my new and former congregations to make it clear that I had done wrong during my time as an elder.
I am not proud of my actions, and to this day I grimace at what I put my wife through. She has never been anything but loyal and loving, and it saddens me that I hurt her by betraying her trust so early in our marriage.
I also feel it was hypocritical of me to accept an appointment as an elder with the aim of helping others and offering spiritual guidance when I had so many issues of my own to contend with. I was living a double life and being dishonest with people.
Even so, I can’t help but consider these actions to be very much a by-product of sexual repression in my formative years. In particular, I think of the difficulties I had in finding a marriage partner from a narrow pool of Witness girls, and the unscriptural Watchtower injunctions designed to induce guilt over masturbation.
Of course, I accept responsibility for my actions and I do not blame Watchtower for everything. After all, plenty of Witnesses seem to develop into well-balanced adults without these problems.
But my wife and I both now realise that sexual repression in my upbringing was a major factor. It forced me into finding ways of satisfying my natural sexual urges as a virgin without intercourse so as to remain “morally clean,” and this led to an unhealthy dependency on the internet and pornography.
Once my wife discovered my problem we had a number of emotional exchanges. Decisions needed to be made. My first instinct was to sweep things under the rug and work things out between us, but in the end I decided to stand down as an elder and move back to the congregation I had grown up in to receive discipline.
Apart from anything else I knew I wouldn’t get a fair trial from the bully elder, who would doubtless want to make sure I suffered further for daring to question him. This matter involved my wife and I, and not him – so I chose to receive my punishment from elders I felt I could rely on to be impartial.
I wrote an exhaustive confession in a letter and posted it through the letter box of my new Coordinator. Before long I was summoned to a Judicial Committee and made to relive everything I had done in excruciating detail, despite my signed confession which had already explained everything.
At one point I remember being reduced to tears. By the end of it all, it was decided that I should be reproved and not disfellowshipped. However, my reproof was to be publicly announced both in my new and former congregations to make it clear that I had done wrong during my time as an elder.
He repeats this anecdote in his book, "The Reluctant Apostate":
Leaving the JWs
Before JWs are disfellowshipped, they are summoned before their congregation's elders for a judicial committee: basically if you do something the church considers wrong, and it gets back to the elders in your local congregation, you'll essentially have an interrogation with them and they decide whether to forgive you or disfellowship you. This is what they do for everyone, from normal people with doubts to actual criminals (including chomos) instead of calling the police.
He mentions the first judicial committee he had in the UK in his book excerpt above. Soon after this, he left the UK and moved to Croatia with his wife Dijana, for a fresh start, and has lived there ever since. Then in Croatia, he had a second judicial committee, for his doubts about the organisation and apostasy.
It's become common practice for PIMOs to record the proceedings, so that they have evidence of any bullying tactics, criminality or negligence by the elders, and proof that it was for a minor "offence" and they conducted themselves well in the hearing, in case anyone still in the organisation later tries to slander them. Almost all of the big ex-JW YouTubers have a video in which they react to or comment on their own judicial committee.
Unusually for an ex-JW YouTuber, Lloyd didn't record his judicial committee. There's a lot of speculation as to why, but so far, that's all it is. The Vast Apostate Hour, another ex-JW channel, clipped and captioned this part of his video from the time, pointing this out. Lloyd doesn't mention this in his video, but it's very rare for a branch representative to sit in on a judicial committee, it's usually just the local elders. VAH also said that it's very rare for elders to be removed by judicial committees at all. (thread) This is all stuff that former JWs would know, and Lloyd usually explains internal JW practices to us normies, but he didn't do that this time. He also heavily implies he has some kind of leverage over the organisation, or at least the Croatia branch. What did he mean by this? VAH theorises it's a sort of mutually assured destruction tactic on his part: yes, they could out him as on their secret database of nonces, but to do that, they'd also have to admit that there was a database in the first place.
They give a lot more context to this here (attached).
The Grift, part 1: The Australian Royal Commission book
Lloyd's forever plugging his Patreon, his books and his merch. Not necessarily a bad thing in itself, man's gotta eat. However, a few times he has really compromised his integrity as a "professional activist".
2015 saw the Australian Royal Commission - an investigation into child sexual abuse in Australia that focused on a lot of different groups, including Jehovah's Witnesses. Lots of testimonies from victims and a couple of the governing body members. JWWatch (then JWSurvey) made a lot of good videos about it, though while Lloyd hosted them, almost all the information and insight came from the cohosts Daniel Walker (Covert Fade), Mark O'Donnell (John Redwoods) and retired lawyer Kim Silvio.
Fade decided to write a book about it all, without consulting any of the victims who testified, and when one, "BCG", objected, he and Lloyd sperged out at her and summoned their personal army to bother her on socials, and later issued a non-apology, a running theme with this guy. Here's the public statement from BCG.
This wouldn't be the last time he'd be accused of trying to cash in on victims without their permission either. https://archive.ph/wUyBT
The Grift, part 2: Crisis of Conscience
The seminal ex-JW book is "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz, a former governing body member who quit the organisation and exposed all its inner workings and explained his doubts. It was (and still is) a huge catalyst for helping people to escape the JWs.
In 2016, Lloyd announced a competition for his viewers to win "bootleg" copies his mate had printed. When people pointed out this was illegal, he wrote a long non-apology screed (archive) in which he reeeees about "the haters", and yet if you read between the lines, he admits everything.
Mike and Kim Brooks also have a YouTube channel. Far from being "evangelical activists", they're also ex-JW activists who happen to have converted to a normal mainstream kind of Christianity instead of atheism like Lloyd.
He then rambled about how important it is to make this wonderful resource available to people, despite having criticised Mike and Kim for making it available as a free PDF, while talking about returning the money, implying he and his friend were charging for it.
IICSA
Lloyd has been interviewed on TV and radio quite a bit, and was in Leah Remini's Aftermath special about Jehovah's Witnesses.
In 2019, the UK government held IICSA, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse; basically the same sort of thing as the Australian Royal Commission. Lloyd applied to be a core participant and was accepted: (application here)
It's not clear why he applied instead of other ex-JWs. He did have some knowledge of how the church operates in the UK, having been an elder, and he has interviewed a lot of ex-JW CSA victims on his channel.
Remember that date, though, 2019.
#Lloydgate
On 31st January 2022, Lloyd's former JWWatch collaborator, Kim Silvio, put out a statement on the ex-JW subReddit accusing Lloyd of repeatedly cheating on his wife with prostitutes he rented with his Patreon money:
I write this statement in the interest of scrutiny, transparency and truth. Knowledge can be a powerful thing however in this instance, knowledge has been a heavy weight that has taken time to consider.
Sometimes a day comes when the good that someone does can start to be outweighed by the not so good. Behaviour becomes toxic, hypocritical, suffocating and controlling.
Some weeks back Lloyd openly and without warning notified me of his infidelity and engagement with prostitutes on a very regular basis over many years, amongst other matters that don’t need to be specifically mentioned.
This was shortly before he notified the community that he would be taking a two month break from activism “to re-evaluate my life for the sake of my mental health”.
This is not correct. Lloyd had been in Thailand making use of the many different facilities and getting to know the locals and other tourists since shortly after Christmas, only returning to Croatia a few days ago.
It has often been said that activists are happy for individuals to be Jehovah’s Witnesses, providing that they know the whole truth about the organisation.
Lloyds subscribers, support team and patrons are not being given the correct information. There are matters that he does not want the public to know about, wanting rather to maintain a facade that appeals to those concerned.
To show his narcissistic behaviour, deficit regard for the feelings of others, use of funding generated through his activism work to pay for prostitution, an industry known for the exploitation of women and minors, a solo non-mental health related trip to Thailand and failure to be honest in respect to the true reason for his absence would cause reproach to be brought upon his name and therefore must not be spoken about.
It is hoped that this information will give you the same opportunity that Lloyd gives to all Jehovah’s Witnesses about their religion. The truth. You are being deceived by this hypocritical, dishonest and misogynistic man.
Many times Lloyd has shouted down other activists, members of our community for not agreeing with him, or as a result of him somehow convincing others that on every single occasion he is questioned, he is the victim. How many activists have stopped their efforts? How many people have been silenced? You would be shocked at how many people have left activism because of him.
Is it possible for us all to consider that he has manipulated the entire community to see him as the authority, the only opinion that should be considered? Does he have a monopoly on the activism movement?
Experts often say that the indication of a cult is what happens when you leave. It cannot go unnoticed how many people are cut off, cut down, attacked and shouted into silence for expressing a varied opinion to Lloyd or for daring to question him or critique him in any way.
Is it now time that the community are given the opportunity to consider these matters and to ask this question:
“Is it time to let the videos Lloyd has produced speak for themselves, and let many other activists take the mantle with a truly free and community spirit?”
I have given great consideration as to whether I should disclose this information to the community and I have considered a few factors; Would I want to know if I were a patron? Yes. Would I want to know if I were a subscriber? Yes. Would I want to know if I were recommending Lloyd for media opportunities? Yes. Would I want to know if I were considering entering into a joint activism project with him? Yes.
And finally, can I live with myself knowing that each and everyone of you are being lied to just like we all were as Jehovah’s Witnesses? No.
We will not accept it from the organisation therefore we cannot accept this type of behavior in our community.
Producer Bob and I have resigned from the JW watch team as we can no longer support this behaviour.
We wish you all well and trust that this knowledge will not divide the community, rather unite and build a community that is built on freedom and truth.
In closing I do wish to say that I hope my reputation through the work that I have done and my known association with Lloyd may give you confidence to accept this as truth. I am not concerned that I may be accused of deformation as the first defense of such a claim is truth.
Kind regards,
Kim Silvio
Sometimes a day comes when the good that someone does can start to be outweighed by the not so good. Behaviour becomes toxic, hypocritical, suffocating and controlling.
Some weeks back Lloyd openly and without warning notified me of his infidelity and engagement with prostitutes on a very regular basis over many years, amongst other matters that don’t need to be specifically mentioned.
This was shortly before he notified the community that he would be taking a two month break from activism “to re-evaluate my life for the sake of my mental health”.
This is not correct. Lloyd had been in Thailand making use of the many different facilities and getting to know the locals and other tourists since shortly after Christmas, only returning to Croatia a few days ago.
It has often been said that activists are happy for individuals to be Jehovah’s Witnesses, providing that they know the whole truth about the organisation.
Lloyds subscribers, support team and patrons are not being given the correct information. There are matters that he does not want the public to know about, wanting rather to maintain a facade that appeals to those concerned.
To show his narcissistic behaviour, deficit regard for the feelings of others, use of funding generated through his activism work to pay for prostitution, an industry known for the exploitation of women and minors, a solo non-mental health related trip to Thailand and failure to be honest in respect to the true reason for his absence would cause reproach to be brought upon his name and therefore must not be spoken about.
It is hoped that this information will give you the same opportunity that Lloyd gives to all Jehovah’s Witnesses about their religion. The truth. You are being deceived by this hypocritical, dishonest and misogynistic man.
Many times Lloyd has shouted down other activists, members of our community for not agreeing with him, or as a result of him somehow convincing others that on every single occasion he is questioned, he is the victim. How many activists have stopped their efforts? How many people have been silenced? You would be shocked at how many people have left activism because of him.
Is it possible for us all to consider that he has manipulated the entire community to see him as the authority, the only opinion that should be considered? Does he have a monopoly on the activism movement?
Experts often say that the indication of a cult is what happens when you leave. It cannot go unnoticed how many people are cut off, cut down, attacked and shouted into silence for expressing a varied opinion to Lloyd or for daring to question him or critique him in any way.
Is it now time that the community are given the opportunity to consider these matters and to ask this question:
“Is it time to let the videos Lloyd has produced speak for themselves, and let many other activists take the mantle with a truly free and community spirit?”
I have given great consideration as to whether I should disclose this information to the community and I have considered a few factors; Would I want to know if I were a patron? Yes. Would I want to know if I were a subscriber? Yes. Would I want to know if I were recommending Lloyd for media opportunities? Yes. Would I want to know if I were considering entering into a joint activism project with him? Yes.
And finally, can I live with myself knowing that each and everyone of you are being lied to just like we all were as Jehovah’s Witnesses? No.
We will not accept it from the organisation therefore we cannot accept this type of behavior in our community.
Producer Bob and I have resigned from the JW watch team as we can no longer support this behaviour.
We wish you all well and trust that this knowledge will not divide the community, rather unite and build a community that is built on freedom and truth.
In closing I do wish to say that I hope my reputation through the work that I have done and my known association with Lloyd may give you confidence to accept this as truth. I am not concerned that I may be accused of deformation as the first defense of such a claim is truth.
Kind regards,
Kim Silvio
The jannies quickly deleted the OP and locked the thread. Kim discussed it on her Twitter and has since done streams with several other ex-JW YouTubers discussing it.
Lloyd responded with a thoughtful video statement, in which he showed self-reflection and deep contrition for his actions.
...Nah, just kidding, he got wasted and did an hour and a half livestream in which he chimped out at Kim, the haters, and the chat, and he confessed to everything.
There's a lot of him just sitting around and the sound and video fucking up, so here's the highlights:
00:00: The stream starts and Lloyd's sound is off.
02:06: He looks at the chat yelling at him that he's muted, and fixes it.
02:23: He has been dragged kicking and screaming back onto YouTube and cut his mental health break short because of a "massive invasion of privacy and betrayal of confidence". Reees about his privacy and how it's nobody's business but his.
04:59: His in-laws are looking after his daughters, and his wife Dijana is out and "she's asked me to say as little about her as possible".
05:40: "I haven't raped anyone. I haven't committed any kind of sexual offence." (Remember this part.) "I haven't murdered anyone, no seal cubs have been bludgeoned by my hand."
06:05: He grumps about how Kim Silvio, his former colleague and friend, posted the statement on Reddit, and says it "grossly invaded my privacy AND MY FAMILY'S privacy. My wife's privacy, my children's privacy, because they're gonna grow up eventually and they're gonna want to know what's on the internet about their daddy."
07:19: "I feel like my house was burgled and I've been held at gunpoint." Shades of Russell Greer's fanfic about what Taylor Swift figuratively did to him. Rages about how he feels "abused".
08:40: Technical difficulties.
9:10: Starts explaining the situation. "Apparently you all need to know what I do with my dick, the world needs to know."
9:44: Plugs his book, whines about how he was sexually repressed by growing up in the JW church.
11:12: Reminds himself that his wife specifically told him to talk about her as little as possible.
11:29: Immediately starts spilling the beans about his and his wife's sex life.
12:24: Plugs his book again. Says he didn't write about it because he wanted to, but because he had to, because he knew that his judicial committee and other JWs in his family had that dirt on him and could share it themselves.
13:23: Says he explicitly moved to Croatia because his wife had discovered him chatting with girls online.
13:34: Hurriedly corrects himself, "When I say 'girls', I mean 'women'". Superchats come in begging him to end the stream.
13:57: Credits his porn/cybering/sexting/infidelity addiction and subsequent move to Croatia with him getting out of the cult.
14:59: Mentions his wife as little as possible again, saying that she wasn't "enough" for him and goes on about their sexual difficulties.
16:45: Technical difficulties again
17:15: Superchat says "no need to tell us anymore" and he starts laughing about how apparently it's everybody's business according to Kim.
18:00: The visual and audio cut out for a few seconds. The visual returns but no audio for a good few minutes. as Lloyd keeps talking and apparently doing some weird impression of "the haters" and laughing.
23:20: Lloyd floats the conspiracy theory that one of his former friends is tampering with his video and that's why he keeps fucking up.
25:00: He says all the creepy sex shit continued "up until very, very recently". Continues to talk about his wife as little as possible.
25:40: "There were no affairs... I haven't wanted a relationship with anyone else, but I have looked for sex."
26:00 The chat pleads with him to shut the fuck up, he gets all snarky about it and downs his entire whisky. He says the technical problems appear to have stopped now that he's suggested someone's tampering with it, as if they've realised he's onto them.
26:55: "The situation came to a head very recently when Dijana made a discovery... she saw some pictures" - so again, like the previous, he didn't actually confess any of this to her, she found out.
28:50: A chat from Alien Encounters says "YOU WERE GROOMING A 14 YEAR OLD" and he loses his mind and rants about how everybody betray him, they no good. "They want me to be a paedophile".
31:33: This happens.
It later got posted to /r/PublicFreakout as "Mastery of the Penis".
36:00: Lloyd explains he took a break for mental health reasons and says that technically he was honest about that, because he was stressed at the consequences of his own actions.
37:00: He finally starts telling the story. He had a Zoom call with his producer Bob and Kim Silvio, both of whom have since left JWWatch, and he told them everything, apparently without them having asked. At the time they were really supportive and understanding of him at the time.
39:00: He ditched his wife and kids and went to Thailand on his own to FiNd HiMsElF for three weeks, over Christmas and New Year, to see if it was "possible for him to exist" without his marriage.
40:00: Starts reading WhatsApp messages from Kim helping him organise his holiday and approving of his video where he announced he was taking a break.
42:00: Reads messages he sent to Kim on NYE when he was thinking about suicide and she told him to keep it together for his kids. Fakes sobbing for a bit, face is completely dry and normal when he pulls his hand away.
45:00 Mentions he had some weed and says "maybe that's something I'm also a villain for".
48:00: Says he was grumpy at his friend, fellow ex-JW and occasional contributor Javier Ortiz, for not responding to his messages.
50:30: "By the way, this was literally called 'The Meltdown Support Group'. So, not just 'The Unfaithfulness Support Group', or 'The Prostitutes/Sex Workers Support Group' or whatever". PLOT TWIST.
53:30: Lloyd says Kim's tone changed on New Year's Day when an ex-JW attempted suicide and posted about it on Twitter. (Lloyd tries to keep it vague here, but his drunk ass slips up and names the guy.) Lloyd reads her message to him, in which she talks about managing his public persona and reputation, because people look up to him. She tells him either to get off social media or come clean to his viewers. He responded grumpily to her and said he didn't like being told what to do. He interprets her message as shaming him for talking about his mental health issues.
1:03:00: He compares it to being back inside the JWs and being judged, "where if you do anything outside of what the organisation expects, you're worse than a paedophile."
1:06:00: He finally reads Kim's statement. "He notified me without warning of engagement with prostitutes on a very regular basis over many years." He takes issue with this and says it was "only" every 2-3 months, for 3-4 years. "I didn't have an opportunity to do it on a regular basis, I'm not sure I would NEED to, so that part is factually untrue. And libelous!"
1:11:00: Says it's none of his Patreon patrons' and superchat donors' business how he spends their donations, and compares himself to a doctor who gets paid for helping people and is allowed to spend his money however, and calls his Patreon NEETbux "my wages".
1:13:00: Doesn't understand how any of his actions ever could possibly be misogynistic, so chalks it up to him disagreeing with Kim, a woman.
1:17:00 Plays the victim for a bit and talks about how this impacts on all of his family, again saying as little as possible about his wife. Talks about his children, including giving their names and ages, and his in-laws.
1:23:00: Again talks about how he spends his "wages" and asks if he's supposed to get receipts from the hookers for expenses.
1:24:00: A chat asks "is prostitution legal in Croatia?" He freaks out.
1:28:00: Kim shows up in the chat and he bitches her out.
1:30:00: Someone in chat calls Kim a snake and Lloyd puts it up on the screen and leaves it there for a good few minutes. "Oops didn't mean to leave the 'snake' comment up for quite so long!"
1:32:00: Lloyd says he never presented a facade, but if he did, everyone does that on Facebook and Instagram all the time anyway.
02:06: He looks at the chat yelling at him that he's muted, and fixes it.
02:23: He has been dragged kicking and screaming back onto YouTube and cut his mental health break short because of a "massive invasion of privacy and betrayal of confidence". Reees about his privacy and how it's nobody's business but his.
04:59: His in-laws are looking after his daughters, and his wife Dijana is out and "she's asked me to say as little about her as possible".
05:40: "I haven't raped anyone. I haven't committed any kind of sexual offence." (Remember this part.) "I haven't murdered anyone, no seal cubs have been bludgeoned by my hand."
06:05: He grumps about how Kim Silvio, his former colleague and friend, posted the statement on Reddit, and says it "grossly invaded my privacy AND MY FAMILY'S privacy. My wife's privacy, my children's privacy, because they're gonna grow up eventually and they're gonna want to know what's on the internet about their daddy."
07:19: "I feel like my house was burgled and I've been held at gunpoint." Shades of Russell Greer's fanfic about what Taylor Swift figuratively did to him. Rages about how he feels "abused".
08:40: Technical difficulties.
9:10: Starts explaining the situation. "Apparently you all need to know what I do with my dick, the world needs to know."
9:44: Plugs his book, whines about how he was sexually repressed by growing up in the JW church.
11:12: Reminds himself that his wife specifically told him to talk about her as little as possible.
11:29: Immediately starts spilling the beans about his and his wife's sex life.
12:24: Plugs his book again. Says he didn't write about it because he wanted to, but because he had to, because he knew that his judicial committee and other JWs in his family had that dirt on him and could share it themselves.
13:23: Says he explicitly moved to Croatia because his wife had discovered him chatting with girls online.
13:34: Hurriedly corrects himself, "When I say 'girls', I mean 'women'". Superchats come in begging him to end the stream.
13:57: Credits his porn/cybering/sexting/infidelity addiction and subsequent move to Croatia with him getting out of the cult.
14:59: Mentions his wife as little as possible again, saying that she wasn't "enough" for him and goes on about their sexual difficulties.
16:45: Technical difficulties again
17:15: Superchat says "no need to tell us anymore" and he starts laughing about how apparently it's everybody's business according to Kim.
18:00: The visual and audio cut out for a few seconds. The visual returns but no audio for a good few minutes. as Lloyd keeps talking and apparently doing some weird impression of "the haters" and laughing.
23:20: Lloyd floats the conspiracy theory that one of his former friends is tampering with his video and that's why he keeps fucking up.
25:00: He says all the creepy sex shit continued "up until very, very recently". Continues to talk about his wife as little as possible.
25:40: "There were no affairs... I haven't wanted a relationship with anyone else, but I have looked for sex."
26:00 The chat pleads with him to shut the fuck up, he gets all snarky about it and downs his entire whisky. He says the technical problems appear to have stopped now that he's suggested someone's tampering with it, as if they've realised he's onto them.
26:55: "The situation came to a head very recently when Dijana made a discovery... she saw some pictures" - so again, like the previous, he didn't actually confess any of this to her, she found out.
28:50: A chat from Alien Encounters says "YOU WERE GROOMING A 14 YEAR OLD" and he loses his mind and rants about how everybody betray him, they no good. "They want me to be a paedophile".
31:33: This happens.
It later got posted to /r/PublicFreakout as "Mastery of the Penis".
36:00: Lloyd explains he took a break for mental health reasons and says that technically he was honest about that, because he was stressed at the consequences of his own actions.
37:00: He finally starts telling the story. He had a Zoom call with his producer Bob and Kim Silvio, both of whom have since left JWWatch, and he told them everything, apparently without them having asked. At the time they were really supportive and understanding of him at the time.
39:00: He ditched his wife and kids and went to Thailand on his own to FiNd HiMsElF for three weeks, over Christmas and New Year, to see if it was "possible for him to exist" without his marriage.
40:00: Starts reading WhatsApp messages from Kim helping him organise his holiday and approving of his video where he announced he was taking a break.
42:00: Reads messages he sent to Kim on NYE when he was thinking about suicide and she told him to keep it together for his kids. Fakes sobbing for a bit, face is completely dry and normal when he pulls his hand away.
45:00 Mentions he had some weed and says "maybe that's something I'm also a villain for".
48:00: Says he was grumpy at his friend, fellow ex-JW and occasional contributor Javier Ortiz, for not responding to his messages.
50:30: "By the way, this was literally called 'The Meltdown Support Group'. So, not just 'The Unfaithfulness Support Group', or 'The Prostitutes/Sex Workers Support Group' or whatever". PLOT TWIST.
53:30: Lloyd says Kim's tone changed on New Year's Day when an ex-JW attempted suicide and posted about it on Twitter. (Lloyd tries to keep it vague here, but his drunk ass slips up and names the guy.) Lloyd reads her message to him, in which she talks about managing his public persona and reputation, because people look up to him. She tells him either to get off social media or come clean to his viewers. He responded grumpily to her and said he didn't like being told what to do. He interprets her message as shaming him for talking about his mental health issues.
1:03:00: He compares it to being back inside the JWs and being judged, "where if you do anything outside of what the organisation expects, you're worse than a paedophile."
1:06:00: He finally reads Kim's statement. "He notified me without warning of engagement with prostitutes on a very regular basis over many years." He takes issue with this and says it was "only" every 2-3 months, for 3-4 years. "I didn't have an opportunity to do it on a regular basis, I'm not sure I would NEED to, so that part is factually untrue. And libelous!"
1:11:00: Says it's none of his Patreon patrons' and superchat donors' business how he spends their donations, and compares himself to a doctor who gets paid for helping people and is allowed to spend his money however, and calls his Patreon NEETbux "my wages".
1:13:00: Doesn't understand how any of his actions ever could possibly be misogynistic, so chalks it up to him disagreeing with Kim, a woman.
1:17:00 Plays the victim for a bit and talks about how this impacts on all of his family, again saying as little as possible about his wife. Talks about his children, including giving their names and ages, and his in-laws.
1:23:00: Again talks about how he spends his "wages" and asks if he's supposed to get receipts from the hookers for expenses.
1:24:00: A chat asks "is prostitution legal in Croatia?" He freaks out.
No.
Also illegal in England and Thailand, so wherever he did it, he actually has committed a kind of sexual offence, possibly several.
Also illegal in England and Thailand, so wherever he did it, he actually has committed a kind of sexual offence, possibly several.
1:30:00: Someone in chat calls Kim a snake and Lloyd puts it up on the screen and leaves it there for a good few minutes. "Oops didn't mean to leave the 'snake' comment up for quite so long!"
1:32:00: Lloyd says he never presented a facade, but if he did, everyone does that on Facebook and Instagram all the time anyway.
Now, Lloyd says he was punting "until very ,very recently" (and doesn't ever actually say he's stopped) , every few months "for three or four years". So that's from 2018 or 2019, through to the present day.
This means he was, under English and Croatian law, committing sex offences throughout the entire period of 2019 and 2020, at the same time he was interviewing CSA victims on his channel and was a core participant of IICSA.
Also while his wife was pregnant with his second child.
Adam van Wirdum, the ex-JW who'd attempted suicide has since also made a public statement on /r/exjw, initially supporting Lloyd and Kim on the mental health topic specifically, and then when he found out "further facts", he cancelled his Patreon subscription to Lloyd.
Since the stream, Lloyd has released a more sober statement on his Facebook page (archive). tl;dr: he doubles down on all of it and blames Kim for everything, and says he's going to block all the haters.
Hello all
I’m briefly breaking my social media hiatus to say a few things that some may need to hear:
(Note: I have updated this list to add points 3B, 3C and expand on point 6. I may make further updates as needed.)
(1) I want to clarify that I don’t think my livestream on the 31st was sabotaged by anyone. I was extremely stressed when recording and when my mic inexplicably kept muting itself, which it has never done before, my mind raced to possible causes. I remembered that Producer Bob at that point had access to my Streamyard and verbalized this on air, but there’s simply no way she could have interfered without me seeing her in the studio interface. I want to apologize to her unreservedly for making that inference/accusation.
(2) Since the livestream I have been informed that Producer Bob was very much involved behind the scenes in orchestrating/supporting the sharing of private information about my life despite her personal assurances to the contrary.
(3a) What little I’ve glimpsed of people weighing in on this issue falls very much into slippery slope fallacy territory. To reiterate: I am not a criminal, nor have I engaged in or facilitated any abusive behavior. Aside from the violation of privacy that impacts my whole family there is one injured party in all of this - my wife - and I know she objects to people treating her as a victim. Anyone wishing to accuse me of perpetrating crime should be going to the police before posting their claims on social media if they truly care about the crime itself or any potential victims. To hurl accusations without proof of any kind is slander. I am seeing accusations resurfacing that were leveled at me in 2017 as part of a cyber-bullying campaign orchestrated by the self-styled “Vast Apostate Army” or VAA. These accusations were forwarded to both the producers of Leah Remini’s Aftermath series and IICSA in an attempt to sabotage my involvement in both of those projects, but were given short shrift because minimal scrutiny revealed them to be utter fiction - the product of troubled minds who seek my destruction so fervently that they would like there to be a child who was molested, or “sexted”, by me. Let me be clear: I have many flaws, but exposing child sexual abuse while participating in it is not and has never been one of them. It feels like a violation that I even need to say that.
(3b) A specific concern that has been brought to my attention is the notoriety of Thailand's sex industry and its problems with sex trafficking. Such concerns were doubtless fueled by Kim's remark that while in Thailand I was "making use of the many different facilities." I want to assure everyone that I did not go to Thailand for its sex industry. My main reasons for choosing it as a place for reflection and self-discovery were its low cost of living (I didn't want to live exorbitantly if my trip ended up lasting many weeks), its amazing food and its natural beauty. If sex tourism had been my incentive I am sure I would have headed straight to Bangkok rather than Phuket and its stunning beaches. Suffice to say, not that its anyone's business but of those I met in Thailand, sex workers or otherwise, nobody was a minor by either Thai or US law and all were in their 20s or older. Again, it feels invasive to even make that statement but I am anxious to reassure people who may be being fed wrong, salacious information.
(3c) Today (February 7, 2022) photos are being circulated that Dijana disclosed privately to someone she assumed to be a trusted friend. I want to make it clear that the woman in the photos is in her 20s and not a sex worker.
(4) It is more than likely that Kim will try to share more personal information in the coming days and weeks. I won’t be commenting on each and every WhatsApp screen grab she tweets, if any. Suffice to say: I know who I am as a person and that I am not the narcissistic super villain that she is portraying. I know that despite my differences over the years with trusted colleagues and fellow activists, those I am working with now are the ones I have nothing but respect and admiration for. Whatever words of mine may surface on Kim’s social media, which will almost certainly be shorn of context, I know deep down that I am a good person; that I care passionately about the cause I have served for over 10 years, and that I care about and value all who have helped me in my work including my colleagues and patrons.
(5) I would like to reiterate that as a professional activist I get to spend my wages as I please. My patrons know that I churn considerable money into my channel. It is due to their generous support that I have been able to hire a video editor, build a studio, travel to investigate stories and invest in the best equipment. I simply shouldn’t be asked to account for how I spend my personal funds. If that had ever been the case, I would never have used Patreon to begin with.
(6) I am currently running a poll on the “community” tab of my YouTube channel to see whether my viewers would like me to keep my livestream from the 31st on the channel for the sake of transparency, or have it removed due to the invasive nature of its contents. At this time, the poll is running at 59% in favor of the video remaining. I will do my best to respect the wishes of the majority of my viewers and keep the video on my channel as long as possible, but I also reserve the right to override the results of the poll if I am asked to do so by Dijana who as with myself never asked for any of this attention on her private life. (Update: I have chosen to "unlist" both the 31st livestream and the "Taking a Break" video so that both videos are no longer being promoted on my channel but the information is available to those who want to see it.)
(7) I am now unapologetically blocking on social media anyone who sympathizes with Kim and her grossly judgmental, vindictive, surreptitious behavior. What Kim has done is the single biggest personal violation I have ever experienced, and it’s hard to believe anyone will ever be able to top it. I generally shy away from “you’re either for me or against me” rhetoric, and I want to be clear that I am not asking people to take sides. But if you use your social media platform to facilitate what is now being inflicted on me and my family, I don’t want to see any of what you have to say showing up in my feed in the future.
(8 ) I am at a point where I am seriously considering stepping down from ex-JW activism altogether. I have been overwhelmed and deeply touched by the outpouring of support by the vast majority of my viewers and patrons. However, I am also seeing the ugly side of the ex-JW movement as never before and I genuinely shudder at this moment when I consider summoning the energy to devote more of myself to producing content that can be enjoyed by individuals who would treat me and those I love with such disdain. Quite apart from that, a significant element of my work involves collaboration with other ex-JWs, which in turn requires trust. Kim’s actions have decimated my trust in working with other ex-JWs and I am not sure I can ever collaborate again on the level I was doing before all this happened. Suffice to say, my life is in turmoil right now and I have no idea what is going to happen next. But whatever becomes of me I want to sincerely thank all those who have extended support and solidarity in this profoundly stressful period. Your kind words and unconditional love means more than you can know.
Lloyd
I’m briefly breaking my social media hiatus to say a few things that some may need to hear:
(Note: I have updated this list to add points 3B, 3C and expand on point 6. I may make further updates as needed.)
(1) I want to clarify that I don’t think my livestream on the 31st was sabotaged by anyone. I was extremely stressed when recording and when my mic inexplicably kept muting itself, which it has never done before, my mind raced to possible causes. I remembered that Producer Bob at that point had access to my Streamyard and verbalized this on air, but there’s simply no way she could have interfered without me seeing her in the studio interface. I want to apologize to her unreservedly for making that inference/accusation.
(2) Since the livestream I have been informed that Producer Bob was very much involved behind the scenes in orchestrating/supporting the sharing of private information about my life despite her personal assurances to the contrary.
(3a) What little I’ve glimpsed of people weighing in on this issue falls very much into slippery slope fallacy territory. To reiterate: I am not a criminal, nor have I engaged in or facilitated any abusive behavior. Aside from the violation of privacy that impacts my whole family there is one injured party in all of this - my wife - and I know she objects to people treating her as a victim. Anyone wishing to accuse me of perpetrating crime should be going to the police before posting their claims on social media if they truly care about the crime itself or any potential victims. To hurl accusations without proof of any kind is slander. I am seeing accusations resurfacing that were leveled at me in 2017 as part of a cyber-bullying campaign orchestrated by the self-styled “Vast Apostate Army” or VAA. These accusations were forwarded to both the producers of Leah Remini’s Aftermath series and IICSA in an attempt to sabotage my involvement in both of those projects, but were given short shrift because minimal scrutiny revealed them to be utter fiction - the product of troubled minds who seek my destruction so fervently that they would like there to be a child who was molested, or “sexted”, by me. Let me be clear: I have many flaws, but exposing child sexual abuse while participating in it is not and has never been one of them. It feels like a violation that I even need to say that.
(3b) A specific concern that has been brought to my attention is the notoriety of Thailand's sex industry and its problems with sex trafficking. Such concerns were doubtless fueled by Kim's remark that while in Thailand I was "making use of the many different facilities." I want to assure everyone that I did not go to Thailand for its sex industry. My main reasons for choosing it as a place for reflection and self-discovery were its low cost of living (I didn't want to live exorbitantly if my trip ended up lasting many weeks), its amazing food and its natural beauty. If sex tourism had been my incentive I am sure I would have headed straight to Bangkok rather than Phuket and its stunning beaches. Suffice to say, not that its anyone's business but of those I met in Thailand, sex workers or otherwise, nobody was a minor by either Thai or US law and all were in their 20s or older. Again, it feels invasive to even make that statement but I am anxious to reassure people who may be being fed wrong, salacious information.
(3c) Today (February 7, 2022) photos are being circulated that Dijana disclosed privately to someone she assumed to be a trusted friend. I want to make it clear that the woman in the photos is in her 20s and not a sex worker.
(4) It is more than likely that Kim will try to share more personal information in the coming days and weeks. I won’t be commenting on each and every WhatsApp screen grab she tweets, if any. Suffice to say: I know who I am as a person and that I am not the narcissistic super villain that she is portraying. I know that despite my differences over the years with trusted colleagues and fellow activists, those I am working with now are the ones I have nothing but respect and admiration for. Whatever words of mine may surface on Kim’s social media, which will almost certainly be shorn of context, I know deep down that I am a good person; that I care passionately about the cause I have served for over 10 years, and that I care about and value all who have helped me in my work including my colleagues and patrons.
(5) I would like to reiterate that as a professional activist I get to spend my wages as I please. My patrons know that I churn considerable money into my channel. It is due to their generous support that I have been able to hire a video editor, build a studio, travel to investigate stories and invest in the best equipment. I simply shouldn’t be asked to account for how I spend my personal funds. If that had ever been the case, I would never have used Patreon to begin with.
(6) I am currently running a poll on the “community” tab of my YouTube channel to see whether my viewers would like me to keep my livestream from the 31st on the channel for the sake of transparency, or have it removed due to the invasive nature of its contents. At this time, the poll is running at 59% in favor of the video remaining. I will do my best to respect the wishes of the majority of my viewers and keep the video on my channel as long as possible, but I also reserve the right to override the results of the poll if I am asked to do so by Dijana who as with myself never asked for any of this attention on her private life. (Update: I have chosen to "unlist" both the 31st livestream and the "Taking a Break" video so that both videos are no longer being promoted on my channel but the information is available to those who want to see it.)
(7) I am now unapologetically blocking on social media anyone who sympathizes with Kim and her grossly judgmental, vindictive, surreptitious behavior. What Kim has done is the single biggest personal violation I have ever experienced, and it’s hard to believe anyone will ever be able to top it. I generally shy away from “you’re either for me or against me” rhetoric, and I want to be clear that I am not asking people to take sides. But if you use your social media platform to facilitate what is now being inflicted on me and my family, I don’t want to see any of what you have to say showing up in my feed in the future.
(8 ) I am at a point where I am seriously considering stepping down from ex-JW activism altogether. I have been overwhelmed and deeply touched by the outpouring of support by the vast majority of my viewers and patrons. However, I am also seeing the ugly side of the ex-JW movement as never before and I genuinely shudder at this moment when I consider summoning the energy to devote more of myself to producing content that can be enjoyed by individuals who would treat me and those I love with such disdain. Quite apart from that, a significant element of my work involves collaboration with other ex-JWs, which in turn requires trust. Kim’s actions have decimated my trust in working with other ex-JWs and I am not sure I can ever collaborate again on the level I was doing before all this happened. Suffice to say, my life is in turmoil right now and I have no idea what is going to happen next. But whatever becomes of me I want to sincerely thank all those who have extended support and solidarity in this profoundly stressful period. Your kind words and unconditional love means more than you can know.
Lloyd
So far, that's what we know for sure and that he has confessed to.
This is the photo he mentions in 3c, the one that his wife found, then sent to a friend who then leaked them.
Some Twitter users speculate that this is a ladyboy, the resolution is poor so you decide. Either way (s)he doesn't look happy.
Lloyd's statement doesn't clarify things, since he happily calls troons women, as in his occasional cow crossovers with Tranny Sideshows thread regular Colin "Katy" Montgomerie:
Regarding part 5, that he's allowed to spend his hipster neetbux however he pleases, this is pretty hypocritical in light of his multiple videos on JW governing body members spending followers' donations on legal defence for abuse trials, investment real estate and debauchery.
In 2019, the Bottlegate scandal broke. Governing body member Tony Morris was filmed at a liquor store buying a cartful of Macallan whiskey bottles, and Lloyd got hours of content out of it, making fun of it and referencing it every time Tony shows up drunk on JWBroadcasting.
A month later he criticised this JWBroadcasting cartoon that tells kids to donate their pocket money to the church.
He also mentions in part 3a some allegations from 2017 resurfacing.
The Gobbler69
NOTE: So far, these allegations aren't nearly as well substantiated as Kim's and, unlike hers, Lloyd hasn't confessed to them. It's entirely possible that this is a massive gayop by aggrieved JWs or other ex-JWs, but I mention it here to separate it from the other proven stuff, and because it does come up from time to time and was brought up recently. Lots of ex-JWs have gone back and forth about whether they believe it or not.
So what did he mean about allegations from 2017, and what was Alien Encounters's comment about "grooming a 14-year-old" all about?
You might spot the name Marc Cora as one of the few other people asking about this in Lloyd's trainwreck of a non-apology video. That's Marc and Cora Latham, also British ex-JW YouTubers. They hadn't made a video for three years before this went down, but then on February 8 2022, Marc made this statement about him:
In this video, Marc says he's got information about Lloyd that he's given to the police in England.
UPDATE: Cappytan, another ex-JW on Twitter (archive) says that Gloucestershire police have taken a report (presumably from the Lathams, since the police station Marc's outside in that video is in Gloucestershire). He gives the incident report number as GC-20220214-0123.
He doesn't clarify whether he means he's told the police about Lloyd visiting prostitutes, or about child abuse. But in the comments, the account (either Marc or Cora) has uploaded screenshots of e-mails allegedly from Lloyd in 2008 to someone called Becca claiming to be 14.
These screenshots have been going around for a few years now, even before IICSA, and nothing major has come of it so far, so it had largely been dismissed as fake.
Around the same time, there was a statement going around by a guy called Marko, who claimed to be related to Lloyd's in-laws. Someone claiming to be the same Marko has made another, repeating the claims of the first and expanding on them:
I am related to the Croatian family of Lloyd Evans by marriage. I have lived in Sisak for most of my adult life, but after last year’s earthquake there was some damage to my home and I do not live there at the moment.
I am personally acquainted with Lloyd Evans, his wife and her parents. I also know many of the people who go to the local church of Jehovah’s Witnesses that they attended, either through my line of work or from everyday life. I have never been a Jehovah’s Witness but my wife had some association.
I haven’t spoken to either Lloyd or his wife since shortly after I had made a comment on a Facebook group in 2017 about his troubled history. These new revelations regarding him going to Thailand and using prostitutes is new to me. I won’t have any comment about them since I did not know about it and have only found out about it on the internet. What I have to say is culled from personal recollections, discussions with his wife, my wife, and to a lesser extent, Lloyd himself. My English is not completely fluent as I have not been formally schooled in the language and I have been assisted in the second draft to correct grammatical mistakes and placing them in a way that is easier to understand.
I also asked for information from former Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding their practices in order to better understand and place into perspective. I have been contacted by many concerned former Jehovah’s Witnesses online, some of whom were close to Lloyd and asked for information. I have been reticent to do so due to the harassment I got online and in real life last time. This time I am far enough away from him that I do not fear the repercussions at least from a real life aspect. I do know that he has a lot of supporters online who will do anything to discredit and troll information that is negative to him. Many have already noticed that.
I realise that there is the burden of proof that everyone seeks from me. They ask for pictures, text messages, emails and even explicit photos. I want to be clear that I possess none of these. I was also asked to report this to the police. Again, I only know what was told or shown to me. I did make an attempt to contact UK police in 2017 but was unsuccessful in getting this investigated. The period in time that I am going to speak about are the years of 2007 to 2014 which is roughly the period of their wedding to about the time Lloyd had gone fulltime into his work with former Jehovah’s Witnesses. Should you choose not to believe me, I understand. Had I have known that much of the information I was provided at the time would be important to have documentation of over a decade later, I would have done more than just look at it or nod my head and not ask questions. So take what I tell you as a witness to the character of Lloyd Evans, much of which you already know from firsthand knowledge.
I am also concerned about the current situation of his wife and I am trying hard not to directly implicate her into much of this for her protection. Lloyd was married in Croatia in 2007. It was on the coast and many were invited including my wife. We were not married yet so I did not attend. The news round the town and especially in the family was initially positive. It was sad to see such a well respected young woman leave permanently for the UK, but the opportunities for her were great. I wished them nothing but good fortune.
By the time 2007 was nearing a close, it was clear there were a lot of dark issues with Lloyd. He was an overbearing husband and had a clear idea as to how his wife should treat him and her position in the household. Small things he made huge issues out of and was always onto his wife for things he thought she meant or did.
He also had rules about his own privacy which he berated her for. Lloyd was active on sex dating online sites which were suited for people looking for sex, not relationships. He felt this absolved him and it wasn’t truly cheating but working out his desires and fantasies. His wife found out about this with browser history and on his texts which he had on a second phone.
His online names were as I can recall “The Gobbler” and “The Pussy Destroyer”. I had seen some of his chats as they were forwarded to my wife in confidence back in 2007-2008. They were very animated and he had a fetish where the girls addressed him by “daddy” and he called them “daughter”. This pattern was established. Lloyd got angry when caught with inconvenient information and blamed his wife for not keeping it “in the family” where it could be solved by his reasoning. But as a foreign woman in a strange country, with a man she had barely known, I hope you can understand why she had reached out and asked for counsel.
After this Lloyd became more careful in his activities, but not careful enough. In 2008 he had moved his family to Bramhall church of Jehovah’s Witnesses and became appointed as an elder. It was explained to me he had become surer of himself and relished in his new power. He took it upon himself to endear him to many in the congregation. He took the lead with youths and was very interested in their well being. The problem with his online activities continued. Lloyd often waited for his wife to leave for work to go back on the chat sites. Suspicion was aroused and sexts were found on his phone of a graphic nature. He has a nose which is very protruding and he liked to fantasize about his nose being able to stimulate a woman while pleasuring orally. His wife found one of these sexts which stated something about when her parents were leaving so they could meet at her home. A call was made to the number and a young girl answered. Once she found out this was not Lloyd, she was upset and asked to please not inform her parents. She was 14 years old.
Bank records were examined and many of his transactions were in Wales. Lloyd was in a downward spiral. He was drinking heavily and looked weary. He was up all night secretly chatting when he thought his wife was sleeping and had many different chat relationships going. The very next day another sext was found and the decision was made to confess to elders.
But there was a problem with one of the elders there who was suspicious of his actions around young children. At Lloyd’s insistence, they were to hold back on the confession and move back and establish themselves at their old Wilmslow church. His father was an elder there and he still had a good reputation. He quickly resigned as an elder soon after the move and thought he could just write it down on paper and move to Croatia. A series of Judicial Committees were set up which asked for details. Lloyd felt his confession he wrote should be enough and demanded privacy. He felt since his father was an elder there he would fully protect him. This turned out to be incorrect, and it was the beginning his fallout with his father.
What his father did do for him was advocate that relocation to Croatia would do him well and in the end he was not disfellowshipped. Both parties were relieved to be in Croatia after all of that. I met Lloyd for the first time and he told me how wonderful this country was and had many ambitious plans for establishing himself here. Since I spoke better English than he spoke Croatian, we spoke in English. He looked to me like a man who had just went through a huge crisis. He did not know that I knew all about the crisis and his actions which led to it.
At or about 2011, Lloyd was serious about quitting Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am not sure how the information was relayed to the Croatian Jehovah’s Witnesses church about his problems in the UK but I doubt it was from his wife. It had become common knowledge round the Jehovah’s Witnesses that he had been unfaithful to her. The initial optimism about having a member overseas turned into suspicion. Lloyd picked up on that and I believe it was a factor in him wanting to leave the religion quietly.
By the end of 2013 everything started to reach its climax. His wife had recently left the religion and was expecting their first child. Lloyd was adamant about doing a public disassociation from the religion. His wife was not completely in agreement with this decision. Though she had genuinely left, it was not the kind of exit she sought and was compelled to author a letter of resignation. She preferred to wait after the baby came but Lloyd was more interested in making a good video and drawing attention to himself.
One of the elders of Jehovah’s Witnesses was a client of mine and I had known him personally for some time. It was during one of my visits to service his home that he asked me what I knew about Lloyd Evans. He stated there were a lot of stories circulating about him and wanted to know what I had heard if anything since I was related to his wife’s family. I asked him what they knew and he said and I will never forget it “everything”.
The file on Mr Evans had been forwarded to the Zagreb office and from there to the elders. An elder in the Bramhall church had felt he was preparing his 14 year old daughter for sex. Lloyd had very sexually explicit discussions with this girl and tried to use his position as elder to influence her. I relayed the information I had on him sexting a 14 year old girl and his wife finding out. He did not know about that.
That was all my involvement with that matter, though I noticed on the John Cedars channel that he said someone from Zagreb would be in his Judicial Committee. Lloyd Evans resigned as a Jehovah’s Witness in 2013. He stated it was for apostasy against Jehovah’s Witnesses and I have no reason to doubt that was one of the reasons.. What happened in the Judicial Committee meeting only Lloyd and three Jehovah’s Witness elders knew. For my part I know that he was preparing 14 year old girls for sex in the UK.
This is my testimony. Marko
I am personally acquainted with Lloyd Evans, his wife and her parents. I also know many of the people who go to the local church of Jehovah’s Witnesses that they attended, either through my line of work or from everyday life. I have never been a Jehovah’s Witness but my wife had some association.
I haven’t spoken to either Lloyd or his wife since shortly after I had made a comment on a Facebook group in 2017 about his troubled history. These new revelations regarding him going to Thailand and using prostitutes is new to me. I won’t have any comment about them since I did not know about it and have only found out about it on the internet. What I have to say is culled from personal recollections, discussions with his wife, my wife, and to a lesser extent, Lloyd himself. My English is not completely fluent as I have not been formally schooled in the language and I have been assisted in the second draft to correct grammatical mistakes and placing them in a way that is easier to understand.
I also asked for information from former Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding their practices in order to better understand and place into perspective. I have been contacted by many concerned former Jehovah’s Witnesses online, some of whom were close to Lloyd and asked for information. I have been reticent to do so due to the harassment I got online and in real life last time. This time I am far enough away from him that I do not fear the repercussions at least from a real life aspect. I do know that he has a lot of supporters online who will do anything to discredit and troll information that is negative to him. Many have already noticed that.
I realise that there is the burden of proof that everyone seeks from me. They ask for pictures, text messages, emails and even explicit photos. I want to be clear that I possess none of these. I was also asked to report this to the police. Again, I only know what was told or shown to me. I did make an attempt to contact UK police in 2017 but was unsuccessful in getting this investigated. The period in time that I am going to speak about are the years of 2007 to 2014 which is roughly the period of their wedding to about the time Lloyd had gone fulltime into his work with former Jehovah’s Witnesses. Should you choose not to believe me, I understand. Had I have known that much of the information I was provided at the time would be important to have documentation of over a decade later, I would have done more than just look at it or nod my head and not ask questions. So take what I tell you as a witness to the character of Lloyd Evans, much of which you already know from firsthand knowledge.
I am also concerned about the current situation of his wife and I am trying hard not to directly implicate her into much of this for her protection. Lloyd was married in Croatia in 2007. It was on the coast and many were invited including my wife. We were not married yet so I did not attend. The news round the town and especially in the family was initially positive. It was sad to see such a well respected young woman leave permanently for the UK, but the opportunities for her were great. I wished them nothing but good fortune.
By the time 2007 was nearing a close, it was clear there were a lot of dark issues with Lloyd. He was an overbearing husband and had a clear idea as to how his wife should treat him and her position in the household. Small things he made huge issues out of and was always onto his wife for things he thought she meant or did.
He also had rules about his own privacy which he berated her for. Lloyd was active on sex dating online sites which were suited for people looking for sex, not relationships. He felt this absolved him and it wasn’t truly cheating but working out his desires and fantasies. His wife found out about this with browser history and on his texts which he had on a second phone.
His online names were as I can recall “The Gobbler” and “The Pussy Destroyer”. I had seen some of his chats as they were forwarded to my wife in confidence back in 2007-2008. They were very animated and he had a fetish where the girls addressed him by “daddy” and he called them “daughter”. This pattern was established. Lloyd got angry when caught with inconvenient information and blamed his wife for not keeping it “in the family” where it could be solved by his reasoning. But as a foreign woman in a strange country, with a man she had barely known, I hope you can understand why she had reached out and asked for counsel.
After this Lloyd became more careful in his activities, but not careful enough. In 2008 he had moved his family to Bramhall church of Jehovah’s Witnesses and became appointed as an elder. It was explained to me he had become surer of himself and relished in his new power. He took it upon himself to endear him to many in the congregation. He took the lead with youths and was very interested in their well being. The problem with his online activities continued. Lloyd often waited for his wife to leave for work to go back on the chat sites. Suspicion was aroused and sexts were found on his phone of a graphic nature. He has a nose which is very protruding and he liked to fantasize about his nose being able to stimulate a woman while pleasuring orally. His wife found one of these sexts which stated something about when her parents were leaving so they could meet at her home. A call was made to the number and a young girl answered. Once she found out this was not Lloyd, she was upset and asked to please not inform her parents. She was 14 years old.
Bank records were examined and many of his transactions were in Wales. Lloyd was in a downward spiral. He was drinking heavily and looked weary. He was up all night secretly chatting when he thought his wife was sleeping and had many different chat relationships going. The very next day another sext was found and the decision was made to confess to elders.
But there was a problem with one of the elders there who was suspicious of his actions around young children. At Lloyd’s insistence, they were to hold back on the confession and move back and establish themselves at their old Wilmslow church. His father was an elder there and he still had a good reputation. He quickly resigned as an elder soon after the move and thought he could just write it down on paper and move to Croatia. A series of Judicial Committees were set up which asked for details. Lloyd felt his confession he wrote should be enough and demanded privacy. He felt since his father was an elder there he would fully protect him. This turned out to be incorrect, and it was the beginning his fallout with his father.
What his father did do for him was advocate that relocation to Croatia would do him well and in the end he was not disfellowshipped. Both parties were relieved to be in Croatia after all of that. I met Lloyd for the first time and he told me how wonderful this country was and had many ambitious plans for establishing himself here. Since I spoke better English than he spoke Croatian, we spoke in English. He looked to me like a man who had just went through a huge crisis. He did not know that I knew all about the crisis and his actions which led to it.
At or about 2011, Lloyd was serious about quitting Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am not sure how the information was relayed to the Croatian Jehovah’s Witnesses church about his problems in the UK but I doubt it was from his wife. It had become common knowledge round the Jehovah’s Witnesses that he had been unfaithful to her. The initial optimism about having a member overseas turned into suspicion. Lloyd picked up on that and I believe it was a factor in him wanting to leave the religion quietly.
By the end of 2013 everything started to reach its climax. His wife had recently left the religion and was expecting their first child. Lloyd was adamant about doing a public disassociation from the religion. His wife was not completely in agreement with this decision. Though she had genuinely left, it was not the kind of exit she sought and was compelled to author a letter of resignation. She preferred to wait after the baby came but Lloyd was more interested in making a good video and drawing attention to himself.
One of the elders of Jehovah’s Witnesses was a client of mine and I had known him personally for some time. It was during one of my visits to service his home that he asked me what I knew about Lloyd Evans. He stated there were a lot of stories circulating about him and wanted to know what I had heard if anything since I was related to his wife’s family. I asked him what they knew and he said and I will never forget it “everything”.
The file on Mr Evans had been forwarded to the Zagreb office and from there to the elders. An elder in the Bramhall church had felt he was preparing his 14 year old daughter for sex. Lloyd had very sexually explicit discussions with this girl and tried to use his position as elder to influence her. I relayed the information I had on him sexting a 14 year old girl and his wife finding out. He did not know about that.
That was all my involvement with that matter, though I noticed on the John Cedars channel that he said someone from Zagreb would be in his Judicial Committee. Lloyd Evans resigned as a Jehovah’s Witness in 2013. He stated it was for apostasy against Jehovah’s Witnesses and I have no reason to doubt that was one of the reasons.. What happened in the Judicial Committee meeting only Lloyd and three Jehovah’s Witness elders knew. For my part I know that he was preparing 14 year old girls for sex in the UK.
This is my testimony. Marko
In this thread on the forums of Jehovahs-Witness.com (an ex-JW website), various ex-JWs discuss them. Some Redditors are also looking at the EXIF data and think the second Marko statement may be linked to Mike and Kim Brooks, the ex-JWs mentioned before. That could either mean that they were the ones who helped him with the second draft, or that they made the whole thing up (including the entire Marko character) and put in the bit about multiple drafts to cover for it.
FWIW, Lloyd's wife has said it's fake and gay, and the Lathams say they've given everything to the police, so it could go either way. I'm inclined to think it's fake, but include it because it's mentioned so much in discussions of Lloyd.
The Aftermath
/r/exjw has a megathread on #Lloydgate, now in its sixth iteration. Archives here:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8 and the live thread
The thread on Jehovahs-witnesses started by the Brooks is still continuing with updates too.
Other ex-JW YouTubers have weighed in too.
Kim Silvio gave her side of the story in an interview with Jonathan Burger here
Fateful Slave
AltWorldly gives a pretty good summary of the situation
Handling Criticism
Lloyd likes to rage at "the haters", and will flip out at even the mildest, most constructive criticism. If his livestream didn't show that, his Reddit post history certainly does.
One of his fans posts a thread asking "Real question. Why are there people that don't like Lloyd Evans?"
Lloyd (cedars1929) responded to a lot of the comments bitching at them.
He then posted a thread of his own, "Real question. Please can people give me reasons to cancel/dislike [insert name of ex-JW activist]?"
I don't care, any name. Apparently this is the sort of post you can make on this sub-Reddit these days (which is a shame, because I had been recommending it quite extensively).
Let's see how many ex-JW activists we can character assassinate and/or put off from ever doing activism in the first place due to the needless toxicity.
Let's see how many ex-JW activists we can character assassinate and/or put off from ever doing activism in the first place due to the needless toxicity.
The next day he posted "Goodbye everyone", in which he announces he's leaving the sub and cannot believe people were criticising him and criticised Reddit mods of all people for not being censorious enough.
I know I've not posted much due to time constraints, but I want to make this my farewell post. It's come to my attention that this sub-reddit is no longer well moderated as I had assumed, and I don't feel comfortable posting here or recommending this as a resource to my viewers or readers.
Yesterday someone made a post literally titled "Real question. Why are there people that don't like Lloyd Evans?" and it was allowed to gather dozens of comments over many hours. The post only got deleted after the poster themselves acknowledged how unreasonable and uncalled for it was.
I have always said I am perfectly fine with being challenged on my ideas, statements, comments, books or videos. But a sweeping call for gossip/slander/mudslinging clearly goes beyond fair and reasonable criticism and is a breach of the community rules.
Rather than apologizing for leaving the post up rather than locking it or otherwise shutting it down as their own rules require, the mod team have declined to apologise and effectively censured me for complaining.
It's a shame that things have deteriorated to the point that ex-JW activists are not protected from muck-raking "please give me any negative stuff you have on this guy" posts. Apart from being detrimental to the mental health of individuals who deserve better than to be on the receiving end of this sort of treatment, it's a huge disincentive for others to get involved in activism if they know they can look forward to open invitations for character assassinations with no censure whatsoever from the mod team.
Maybe things will improve at some point and I can work with the sub again, but I'm done for now. Take care all
Yesterday someone made a post literally titled "Real question. Why are there people that don't like Lloyd Evans?" and it was allowed to gather dozens of comments over many hours. The post only got deleted after the poster themselves acknowledged how unreasonable and uncalled for it was.
I have always said I am perfectly fine with being challenged on my ideas, statements, comments, books or videos. But a sweeping call for gossip/slander/mudslinging clearly goes beyond fair and reasonable criticism and is a breach of the community rules.
Rather than apologizing for leaving the post up rather than locking it or otherwise shutting it down as their own rules require, the mod team have declined to apologise and effectively censured me for complaining.
It's a shame that things have deteriorated to the point that ex-JW activists are not protected from muck-raking "please give me any negative stuff you have on this guy" posts. Apart from being detrimental to the mental health of individuals who deserve better than to be on the receiving end of this sort of treatment, it's a huge disincentive for others to get involved in activism if they know they can look forward to open invitations for character assassinations with no censure whatsoever from the mod team.
Maybe things will improve at some point and I can work with the sub again, but I'm done for now. Take care all
More examples of him telling fans with even the mildest criticism to go away:
And here is how he speaks to a someone raped as a child, who doesn't appreciate him representing CSA victims. With bonus blaming the haters:
He also likes to threaten legal action, or just say he's talking with his "legal team" and getting legal advice, so the current saga with the former lawyer who did most of the research into legal cases for JWWatch calling him on his shit is particularly entertaining.
Kim has a Twitter thread collecting instances when he's calling his lawyer and wants everything off the internet now now now now now. thread (archive)
His usual MO is to say he's retained legal counsel and then not do anything, so far he doesn't seem to have brought any lolsuits. He will likely claim this thread is the work of Watchtower glowies or haters, much like Watchtower themselves call his work "apostate lies".
I've never been a JW, my only connection to this is that I like laughing at arrogant cult leaders embarrassing themselves, whether they be church leaders or YouTubers.
If you find a funny Facebook post Lloyd's done, screenshot and archive. Or use Removeddit if it's on Reddit. Null says "archive everything", but this applies especially to Lloyd's social media: he has a habit of writing great long threads on Facebook bitching at people, and then deleting all his comments afterwards.
Final Thots:
You can take the boy out of JWs, but you can't take the JW out of the boy. Not without a lot more therapy, genuine humility and work on himself than Lloyd has done so far.
Lloyd's Books:
Attached, "The Reluctant Apostate" and "How To Escape From Jehovah's Witnesses".
Social media:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cedarsjwsurvey
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/john.cedars.5, JWWatch Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/jwwatchorg/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/LloydEvans
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/user/cedars1929/
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cedars
Speakpipe: https://speakpipe.com/cedars
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lloydevanscedars/
This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.
edit: oh yeah I had this old classic in the attachments and meant to put it somewhere in the OP but forgot, so I'll just put it here.
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