Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Regarding OT Vader and subordinates, rewatch the scene with him and the junior officer flat out telling him the DS plans are not on the ship. Vader done nothing to him aside ordering him and his men to tear the ship apart to find them. OT Vader's beef and force chokes is with the Imperial Brass not the lower ranks.
 
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He only force chokes people who fuck up in ways that seriously hamper him getting the job done. Ozzel missing the jump, and Needa for letting the Falcon escape.

He doesn’t execute people just because they aren’t moving as fast as he would like. So long as you don’t bungle an operation then your usually fine. Obviously if he cares more about it(finding Luke) then something else than yeah your at more risk.

I don’t recall an instance where Vader killed someone who just failed because the opposition was stronger or superior. Maybe there is, but my guess would be don’t be completely incompetent, and make sure that nothing that goes wrong can be attributed to your failed judgement or stupidity and you’ll be (generally) fine.
 
Vader actually tended to punish via execution those people not only if they screwed up due to incompetence, but if they tried to blame others for it. If you owned up to the screw up, he'd likely just let you live after scaring you shitless and extracting an oath to do better. People forget Darth Vader was a pretty good boss by bad guy standards.
 
On the topic of Darth Vader's redemption I wonder why people don't mention that the only person to truly forgive him for what he's done is his son Luke. Luke spent his entire life wanting to know what happened to his father. Everybody else who knew him hated him or wanted him dead. Writers making him do more over the top and absurdly evil things over time like murdering children (thanks George) makes his redemption harder to believe but I still give it a pass because of Luke always seeing the good in other people and loving his family and friends.

What I want to know is why people think Kylo Ren deserved to be redeemed, because he didn't.
The version of Vader these people have in their heads is little more than a combination of an even edgier Anakin and the super badass Darth Vader they used to imagine when playing with their action figures. He bears no resemblance to the actual Vader that we see in the films and instead is turned into this flanderised mess of a character who by all means should've been killed long ago but can't due to the OT still being canon and the idea that Vader is this unstoppable Force of nature when he really isn't. I guess this is inevitable when you have a character so marketable but with so little to actually do between films.
This is the exact reason why the Vader hallway scene in Rogue One happened.

Something else I've wondered is what Anakin's reputation was like throughout the galaxy. What did people know about Darth Vader if they thought the force was made up bullshit and that the Jedi were all killed? Was there galaxy wide propaganda about him the Empire? Or was he more like a mythical figure most people barely saw? He's pretty high up in the chain so I doubt most Imperial grunts saw him regularly.
 
Edit: Something I always thought would have been better is if Anakin (as Vader) never killed the younglings. What at most could have happened is Anakin not being able to go through that himself so the clones did it for him. That would show he still has humanity and good within him, even if its just buried deep. That action connect to the fact he still has good within him and lines he wont cross even as Vader.

I dont know, I feel like it would give depth to Vader instead of just selling how "evil" he is now (and yet say he is still redeemable)

Frankly I just consider Force Ghosting to be enlightenment straight up, it's not just some technique that any random chucklefuck can learn.

Yeah, it pretty much seemed that until Qui Gon revealed there is a technique for it.

Some say that the technique serves only to project yourself on the physical realm so people can see you but it's not fully clear either way. Especially since SW is rather inconsistent to what happens after death in its universe.
 
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Went on the originaltrilogy.com forums because I was bored and found a thread about Vader's redemption with the absolute worst take on it imaginable
1646583960277.png

No matter what you may think about the topic at least you're not this guy.
 
Went on the originaltrilogy.com forums because I was bored and found a thread about Vader's redemption with the absolute worst take on it imaginable
View attachment 3048029
No matter what you may think about the topic at least you're not this guy.
Holy fuck, how dumb can one guy be? Fighting the Sith to his last breath is what Palpatine would have wanted for Luke. He would have been consumed by hate and the Jedi would be forever lost.

Anakin is redeemed because he fulfilled the prophecy and sacrificed himself for others. He wanted to save everybody he loved no matter what. He chose the dark side to save his wife, even if it meant killing children. But it didn’t save her and Anakin lost not only her, but his best friend, his companions, his faith, and lost the ability to live without his suit.

@Shamash describes Anakin correctly:
He possesses an abiding hatred of himself, but more importantly believes he’s already damned.
Darth Vader doesn’t believe there is anything to live for except to be an agent of his own hatred. Maybe he would one day kill the Emperor, thinking that it would end his suffering, but Vader would find another thing that is causing him problems until the galaxy is picked clean of the living that he once valued.

Until he finds out that he has a son, that there is someone he can protect. At first he wants to protect him by having him join the dark side. When he sees Luke’s defiance in the face of the Emperor, the willingness to die for the mere hope that his father would return to the light, Anakin kills the Emperor at the cost of his own life.

“You were right about me” For more than 20 painful, agonizing years Anakin believed that there was no hope for him. But one man, a man whose friends were killed by Anakin, whose mentor was killed by Anakin, whose mother was killed by Anakin, believed that there was still good in him. And Anakin proved that by saving his son at the cost of his own life, letting go of all he feared to lose. He crawled out of the hell he put himself in and died a Jedi.

And that poster thinks that emo bitch boy Kylo has a better redemption? His uncle tries to kill him and he decides to join the space nazi empire remanent, murders his own father, tries to kill his mother and uncle, and only turns to the light because he simps for a below average thot? Bitch, Zayne Carrick saw his fellow apprentices get murdered by their masters and he didn’t fall to the dark side.
 
Vader actually tended to punish via execution those people not only if they screwed up due to incompetence, but if they tried to blame others for it. If you owned up to the screw up, he'd likely just let you live after scaring you shitless and extracting an oath to do better. People forget Darth Vader was a pretty good boss by bad guy standards.

Needa went to personally report to Vader, took full responsibility, and got choked out.
Which tbf, Needa's execution really felt out of place. Ozzel almost felt like he was Rebel deep-cover agent with his repeated fuck ups.


The question if Vader deserved to be "forgiven" and become a force ghost at the end and "Why Batman doesnt kill the joker already" are rooted into the same issue with both characters.

I get what you are going for, but you're wrong here.
Batman doesn't kill the Joker because narratively, we need to have more conflict with Batman and his dark mirror he doesn't have any right to do so. He stops the Joker and turns him over the legal system who tosses him into Arkham for the 584th time instead of forcing congress to pass "Joker's Law" that imposes a three-strikes system of anyone who poisons an entire metro area, and on your third strike you are executed regardless of mental fitness.
Bruce knows that if he starts becoming his own judicial system, its only a short slide to becoming a true force of evil.
So Batman doesn't bare any responsibility for the Joker escaping (again), its the legal system that has failed.

Vader OTOH as others have said... well, he was supposed to be two characters, and Lucas merged them. So the character has a bit of D.I.D. baked in the core. But Vader as a character stopped making sense to me post-Prequels. Even as someone driven by self-loathing, or working 'on the inside' to stop the emperor or w/e, it doesn't make sense to be the Emperor's #1 assistant manager best troubleshooter working for the guy who killed all your friends and made you kill a room full of kids.

In the OT & Pre-PT EU, it seemed pretty clear he was just high on power and order. He fought the Jedi because he'd been seduced to the dark side and so the Jedi had to go. He just wanted power, and once he found out he had a son, he both cared about his son and saw Luke as a useful tool - they'd be able to defeat the Emperor together and Vader would rule the Galaxy with Luke taking over Vader's spot. But he realized that he actually cared about his son more than power, and that was his redemption.
 
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I don’t think Vader really believes he can overthrow the emperor. The effort with Galen Marek was a fraud, and none of his other endeavors were really serious about it.

If he has any hope of overthrowing Palpatine, it’s in a vague future behind the hills(that will never come) sort of way.
 
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I get what you are going for, but you're wrong here.
Batman doesn't kill the Joker because narratively, we need to have more conflict with Batman and his dark mirror he doesn't have any right to do so. He stops the Joker and turns him over the legal system who tosses him into Arkham for the 584th time instead of forcing congress to pass "Joker's Law" that imposes a three-strikes system of anyone who poisons an entire metro area, and on your third strike you are executed regardless of mental fitness.
Bruce knows that if he starts becoming his own judicial system, its only a short slide to becoming a true force of evil.
So Batman doesn't bare any responsibility for the Joker escaping (again), its the legal system that has failed.

I perhaps worded it wrong

"Why doesnt ANYONE kill the joker?"

Except people say that Batman should be the one to do it because he is the one that constantly puts the clown in Arkham and expects him to not escape and do it again. Its something the batman brand is actually pretty aware of it and it always struggles at giving a somewhat acceptable explanation as to why, if Batman doesnt do it (again for legal reasons and because Batman knows he might turn into a VERY dangerous threat if he ever crosses that line, which I recall The Batman Who Laughs and his crew were mostly about), why doesnt ANYONE ELSE does it? There are so many murderers and hired guns in DC alone, how come none of them ever decided to put a cap on the clown's head ? (outside of obvious plot armor, "Joker Immunity" as they put it). And then there is the legal system that, apparently, just accepts the joker gets locked up in Arkham over and over, escapes and commits attrocities that would make most terrorists blush. Even if they kept buying the insanity talk, you would think eventually someone would come up with a legal loophole to declare the joker more than liable for the death penalty. Its just something you arent suppose to think about it too much because The Joker is such an engaging villain that not having him around would be missed.

I don’t think Vader really believes he can overthrow the emperor. The effort with Galen Marek was a fraud, and none of his other endeavors were really serious about it.

If he has any hope of overthrowing Palpatine, it’s in a vague future behind the hills(that will never come) sort of way.

More like the stuff with Galen (again, going with EU vader here) was the evidence that just training someone to be strong enough wasnt going to work since Palpatine would catch on sooner or later. Luke was going to have to do it because he didnt want to destroy him and he was able to convince he could join them...tho if he thought that Palpy was ditching the rule of two (which is something he wasnt a particular fan of) or not, it wasnt clear.

But we could say that Vader's "Plans" to destroy palpatine were mostly pipe dreams and cooping mechanisms. Vader wanted to kill Palpatine for all he had done (tho there was also some ambition of ruling the galaxy himself too) but he knew that at his state, inside a suit PALPATINE designed so his force lightning will be extra effective, facing Palpatine was suicide.

Then again, Palpatine made it very clear he didnt intend on Vader killing him to keep the Rule of Two going, as he intended to achieve immortality, thus that rule would be worthless.
Vader OTOH as others have said... well, he was supposed to be two characters, and Lucas merged them. So the character has a bit of D.I.D. baked in the core. But Vader as a character stopped making sense to me post-Prequels. Even as someone driven by self-loathing, or working 'on the inside' to stop the emperor or w/e, it doesn't make sense to be the Emperor's #1 assistant manager best troubleshooter working for the guy who killed all your friends and made you kill a room full of kids.

Again, that aspect of the prequels feels like needed more re-writes because Anakin barely shows that "good" within him when becoming vader. Like I said, him sparing the children (probably claiming they are "No threat without their masters to teach them") and the clones saying "nope! Murder!" and shoot them all down while Anakin just walks away emotionally frustrated would have been more powerful. It shows that he is in the dark side, yeah, but he still has that good within him that has lines he isnt willing to cross (at least not until he becomes suited Vader). Either change the child murdering scene or just dont have it altogether, just have a passing dialogue from the clones to Anakin and say the "younglings were dealt with" with him probably reacting with a silent frustrated stare before he looks away, as if to say "Fuck, I know there is no turning back now but by God I wish there was..."

I also think the dialogue with Padme at Mustafar needed another rewrite (George Lucas himself admitted writing dialogue isnt his strongest suit). He needed to show more anguish over he is doing and trying to convince himself that he is on the right but hard path. Maybe he is close to becoming Vader evil but Padme is able to shatter that and bring him back down to Anakin again. Him throwing the "And we can rule together" dialogue felt out of place and perhaps a pointless call back to Empire. He should have made it clear that he is doing this for them and their child's future and that, altho he may hate it, its a "necessary" evil. Again, there were better versions of that scene, maybe he is close to agreeing with Padme, maybe kissing together to seal it when he sees Obi-Wan and Vader comes back tenfold.

They didnt portray the struggle that would get buried by Vader's apathy and hatred for everything that is (including himself), that only Luke's love was able to bring it back to the surface. Ep 3 should have been about the downfall but how there is still hope buried within Vader's dark heart that someone he has attachment could still bring it out, hence Padme's last words being that there was still good in him.

Again, this is mostly on George's fault.

Needa went to personally report to Vader, took full responsibility, and got choked out.
Which tbf, Needa's execution really felt out of place.

You can make the argument that Vader was particularly in a VERY bad mood because of his frustration at not finding Luke. So he really didnt feel like letting him go with a stern warning or a non fatal choking. He really wanted to send across he is seeing red and to not even THINK to mess up even a tiny bit or else its choking time for ya.

Vader actually tended to punish via execution those people not only if they screwed up due to incompetence, but if they tried to blame others for it. If you owned up to the screw up, he'd likely just let you live after scaring you shitless and extracting an oath to do better. People forget Darth Vader was a pretty good boss by bad guy standards.

Depends on the writer honestly...

Sometimes Vader is a decent boss to be under if you keep your head low, show him respect and loyalty and do your part.

Sometimes he is a murderous maniac that kills you if he is feeling bored or if you wronged him slightly on accident.

One could say that makes him somewhat realistic given his living condition

I say its inconsistent writing that comes from having several writers over the years
 
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I assume all the discussion about Book of Boba Fett was done pages back. But I just watched it and I must sperg.

It was not good. In no particular order:
  • Shouldn't Boba Fett be younger? We see Luke and he looks actually younger than in Return of the Jedi! I guess we never see Boba with his mask off in the OT but I didn't realise the guy under there was supposed to be sixty. He was a child in the PT. OT is around twenty years later. I'd have pegged him at 40 at most.
  • At the other end, Cad Bane showed up! He wasn't young in the Clone Wars cartoon. But I guess he could still be working at sixty. So I guess a pass on that. He was disappointing in this, though. In TCW he went toe to toe with Obi-Wan and that other Jedi at the same time and was a master planner. Here, he walks up to someone in the middle of the street, loses a High Noon and dies. It probably sounds good on paper as he partly raised Boba so a dramatic conclusion. But really it was just a deflated cameo that frankly took away from the original cartoon.
  • Rancor effects were very good. I would have thought seeing a Rancor fighting giant droids would be an epic finale and I liked the idea. But by that point in the show I was too dulled by everything else to really get into it.
  • A big weakness of the show - Boba Fett is a terrible crime lord. I mean for a start, he's against crime. For second, he's 100% reactive. Sit in chair and wait for plot to happen. Assassin lady has to come up with all his ideas
  • They have less realism than on Mandalorean. Obviously, Mandalorean is still pushing it but if you didn't over-think it and accepted his super-tough armour which was a pretty central tenet of the plot anyway, it worked for a one-guy defeating many enemies. When he was outnumbered he felt outnumbered and if he won there was usually something like those "Singing Birds" weapon that let him pull it off. In this show, we see him thrown forty-plus meters through the air by a Rancor monster, hit the side of a building and not only not be dead, but be back up in action next scene. Too much.
  • Closely related to above, everyone in this but especially Boba and the cyborg street gang, have zero ideas about tactics OR strategy. Honestly, it's walk up to a club this, announce your attentions that. In the finale when they were "covering" an area with two Gamoreans standing randomly near a train station or the Wookie just hanging out on a street corner with a gun... None of it was remotely convincing as able to manage a gang war.
I think that last one really has a meta explanation. I don't know what the budget or constraints were with this show but it felt really, really empty. Boba's crime gang is four teenagers on mopeds. And later there's a wookie. Now the make-up and size of the Wookie was great but it's besides the point - this isn't a gang. This whole thing would feel better if there actually people for Boba to lead. What was going on with this show that they can't have a crowd of petitioners but a couple of walk-on parts while he sits in a nearly empty throne-room. Why is the tribe of sand-people only, like twelve people we ever see at once. Was it deliberate or budget or Covid? Whatever it was, it severely undermined things.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Nobody in it was bad and some of the cast were good. But the show itself was really weak.
 
I'd rather just do anything else than waste my own brain cells on Blorba Fatt at all. It's nice to ignore a dead franchise and dance on its ashes here tbh. The time I could've wasted watching a couple of episodes of Blorba Fatt were instead used to make a basic map of a setting for a TTRPG book I have in mind.
 
I assume all the discussion about Book of Boba Fett was done pages back. But I just watched it and I must sperg.

It was not good. In no particular order:
  • Shouldn't Boba Fett be younger? We see Luke and he looks actually younger than in Return of the Jedi! I guess we never see Boba with his mask off in the OT but I didn't realise the guy under there was supposed to be sixty. He was a child in the PT. OT is around twenty years later. I'd have pegged him at 40 at most.
  • At the other end, Cad Bane showed up! He wasn't young in the Clone Wars cartoon. But I guess he could still be working at sixty. So I guess a pass on that. He was disappointing in this, though. In TCW he went toe to toe with Obi-Wan and that other Jedi at the same time and was a master planner. Here, he walks up to someone in the middle of the street, loses a High Noon and dies. It probably sounds good on paper as he partly raised Boba so a dramatic conclusion. But really it was just a deflated cameo that frankly took away from the original cartoon.
  • Rancor effects were very good. I would have thought seeing a Rancor fighting giant droids would be an epic finale and I liked the idea. But by that point in the show I was too dulled by everything else to really get into it.
  • A big weakness of the show - Boba Fett is a terrible crime lord. I mean for a start, he's against crime. For second, he's 100% reactive. Sit in chair and wait for plot to happen. Assassin lady has to come up with all his ideas
  • They have less realism than on Mandalorean. Obviously, Mandalorean is still pushing it but if you didn't over-think it and accepted his super-tough armour which was a pretty central tenet of the plot anyway, it worked for a one-guy defeating many enemies. When he was outnumbered he felt outnumbered and if he won there was usually something like those "Singing Birds" weapon that let him pull it off. In this show, we see him thrown forty-plus meters through the air by a Rancor monster, hit the side of a building and not only not be dead, but be back up in action next scene. Too much.
  • Closely related to above, everyone in this but especially Boba and the cyborg street gang, have zero ideas about tactics OR strategy. Honestly, it's walk up to a club this, announce your attentions that. In the finale when they were "covering" an area with two Gamoreans standing randomly near a train station or the Wookie just hanging out on a street corner with a gun... None of it was remotely convincing as able to manage a gang war.
I think that last one really has a meta explanation. I don't know what the budget or constraints were with this show but it felt really, really empty. Boba's crime gang is four teenagers on mopeds. And later there's a wookie. Now the make-up and size of the Wookie was great but it's besides the point - this isn't a gang. This whole thing would feel better if there actually people for Boba to lead. What was going on with this show that they can't have a crowd of petitioners but a couple of walk-on parts while he sits in a nearly empty throne-room. Why is the tribe of sand-people only, like twelve people we ever see at once. Was it deliberate or budget or Covid? Whatever it was, it severely undermined things.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Nobody in it was bad and some of the cast were good. But the show itself was really weak.
It all would have worked had it just been on Boba’s Infinitely more successful, better written, cooler Chad counterpart, Jango Fett. What I wouldn’t do for a series on him. Too bad Disney hates creativity now so it would never happen.
 
I was willing to give Filloni some credit for Clone wars season 6 & 7 cause it had some cool ideas but it turns out all of that was Georges vison for the sequel trilogy.
Fucking lol Filoni is a even bigger hack then i previously imagined. Most of what he added then was the boring Ashoka filler, was he and Kennedy the only one that could handle Georges autism?

Also holy shit Georges autism sometimes:
Well actually LEIA would be the true chosen one as she would be the one to bring balance by restoring the republic not Luke. :smug:
 
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  • Shouldn't Boba Fett be younger? We see Luke and he looks actually younger than in Return of the Jedi! I guess we never see Boba with his mask off in the OT but I didn't realise the guy under there was supposed to be sixty. He was a child in the PT. OT is around twenty years later. I'd have pegged him at 40 at most.
That's about right.
  • A big weakness of the show - Boba Fett is a terrible crime lord. I mean for a start, he's against crime. For second, he's 100% reactive. Sit in chair and wait for plot to happen. Assassin lady has to come up with all his ideas
  • They have less realism than on Mandalorean. Obviously, Mandalorean is still pushing it but if you didn't over-think it and accepted his super-tough armour which was a pretty central tenet of the plot anyway, it worked for a one-guy defeating many enemies. When he was outnumbered he felt outnumbered and if he won there was usually something like those "Singing Birds" weapon that let him pull it off. In this show, we see him thrown forty-plus meters through the air by a Rancor monster, hit the side of a building and not only not be dead, but be back up in action next scene. Too much.
  • Closely related to above, everyone in this but especially Boba and the cyborg street gang, have zero ideas about tactics OR strategy. Honestly, it's walk up to a club this, announce your attentions that. In the finale when they were "covering" an area with two Gamoreans standing randomly near a train station or the Wookie just hanging out on a street corner with a gun... None of it was remotely convincing as able to manage a gang war.
I think that last one really has a meta explanation. I don't know what the budget or constraints were with this show but it felt really, really empty. Boba's crime gang is four teenagers on mopeds. And later there's a wookie. Now the make-up and size of the Wookie was great but it's besides the point - this isn't a gang. This whole thing would feel better if there actually people for Boba to lead. What was going on with this show that they can't have a crowd of petitioners but a couple of walk-on parts while he sits in a nearly empty throne-room. Why is the tribe of sand-people only, like twelve people we ever see at once. Was it deliberate or budget or Covid? Whatever it was, it severely undermined things.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Nobody in it was bad and some of the cast were good. But the show itself was really weak.
Could not have put it better myself.
Boba Fett is supposed to be a ruthless bastard.
The setup at the end of season 2 of The Mandalorian still captured that.
But, fucking hell, whoever wrote the script forgot who they were writing about.
Boba is supposed to not talk too much and won't hesitate to break someone's neck if need be.
Way to take a good concept and just flush it.
 
@The handsome tard
You got quote bugged son.
So I'll just say

- For the Joker, remember its an excuse not a reason. A lot of "reasonable" actions just don't make for entertaining stories. But in every case when the Joker gets killed, its just the first domino. In the Injustice story, Superman starts his decent into despotism when the Joker kills the pregnant Louis and Superman loses it and flies him into space, no helmet.

- I 100% agree with you on Lucas fucking up Vader's characterization in the Prequels in more than Dialogue. GEE IF ONLY THERE HAD BEEN A WAY TO GIVE US MORE TIME WITH ANAKIN WRESTLING WITH THE CONFLICT BETWEEN LIGHT AND DARK TO BUILD CHARACTERIZATION LIKE I DUNNO MAYBE NOT MAKING A WHOLE MOVIE WHERE HE'S NINE NEVER MIND THAT'S SILLY. The broad strokes arc works, but the dialogue and individual scenes are such a mess.

tl;dr:
I say its inconsistent writing that comes from having several writers over the years

- The only way I was able to justify Needa getting choked out is because he got on a shuttle and flew to the Executor to report they lost the Falcon. Vader was doubly pissed that Luke escaped but mainly he was angry Needa wasted the time reporting to him personally. If he'd video screened over "They got away for the moment Lord Vader, we'll find them" he'd probably have survived. But it still always struck me as a very 'un-vader' thing to do.
 
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