Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

How well is the war this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 249 10.6%
  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ I ain't afraid of no Ghost of Kiev

    Votes: 278 11.8%
  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 796 33.7%
  • ⭐⭐ Stalemate

    Votes: 659 27.9%
  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 378 16.0%

  • Total voters
    2,360
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Sounds like a good argument for making Crimea an independent republic. What's the argument for having it ruled by an American puppet government based in Kiev?
I tend to like the general statement of Fuck Putin, thtat's why. But as much as I go on about sovereignty... there is zero chance that Crimea will be anything other than moving from puppet state to annexation to Russia unless Putin implodes in a way that not even the most ardent Ukranian propagandist could imagine.

Doesn't mean Crimea won't be worse off, for it. That region was fucked the second Putin had his temper tantrum. But that is the way it goes, Russia or the Soviet Union fucks something up, then fucks things up worse when they have to deal with the repercussions of their actions.

But another answer was, they had the chance to delare independence in 1992, they chose to stick with Ukraine, sadly IR doesn't have takesies backsies.
 
Sounds like a good argument for making Crimea an independent republic. What's the argument for having it ruled by an American puppet government based in Kiev?
The only reason Crimea was ever a part of the Ukraine is that in the 1950s, Nikita Khrushchev won the competition to replace Stalin. Khrushchev has risen up through the Ukrainian communist organization and changed the borders of Ukraine to include Crimea as a reward to his political supporters.

Its amusing to hear Ukrainians give love to the Crimean Tartars. Their ancestors used to hunt Ukrainians like rabbits out in the open grasslands. They also enslaved and sold off generations of them.
With the size of their gas reserves, there is a case to be made economically for an independent Crimea. But putting it back inside Ukraine would be a disaster for Ukraine. It would be a disaster because they would go back to voting as a bloc against the parties based in western Ukraine. Restoring 2013 Ukraine effectively means restoring an electorate that was just about evenly divided and whose problems could only be solved through revolutions.
 
Sanctions are useful, necessary and a good middle ground to fling shit at eachother without resorting to open violence. However, we cannot afford to sanction Russia without mutilating our own economies in the process, certainly with our Green Deal requiring massive investments to meet the 2050 deadline. Mark my words, the EU will allow Russia to assrape Ukraine without sanctions come the end of this year.
Yeah, the way the sanctions are used, they look like a boomerang coming back from behind or any ACME devices who blows up on Will E. Coyote's face.

ZeroHedge added more on the table about this.
Authored by James Rickards via DailyReckoninig.com,

Putin’s Options

There’s no doubt that the financial sanctions put on Russia by the U.S., the U.K., EU members and others are the most severe ever imposed. The U.S. Treasury has announced 15 separate sanctions programs in recent days and no doubt more are on the way.

The targets of these sanctions include Russian banks, Russian stocks and bonds and various payment channels. Most significantly, the U.S. froze the accounts of the Central Bank of Russia. That’s the first time a major central bank’s assets have been frozen since the Cold War, and possibly ever.

Yet the financial attacks on Russia go far beyond official sanctions.

Numerous private companies including Microsoft, Exxon Mobil, Shell and some major airlines have ceased their business activities in Russia. Visa and Mastercard have stopped accepting credit card charges from Russia. Google and Apple have turned off the mobile payment apps on phones held by Russian citizens.

Shipping giant Maersk has stopped its vessels from unloading or taking cargo from Russian ports. Stock index funds are pushing Russian companies out of their indexes and the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund is divesting Russian stocks. The list of public and private embargoes and boycotts goes on.

The financial impact on Russia will be extreme. The Russian economy may be expected to collapse by 20% or more in the first half of 2022, an amount comparable to the economic collapses in the second quarter of 2020 during the first lockdown stage of the pandemic.

The Sanctions Boomerang

But Russia has not stood still. The Central Bank of Russia imposed capital controls so that Russian companies cannot pay interest or principal on international debts. That means those loans and bonds may soon go into default.

Many such securities may be stuffed into 401(k) plans of Americans under the umbrella of “emerging markets” funds or ETFs. Even more important is the possibility that interbank lending may start to dry up as Russian banks are frozen and Western banks reduce leverage and shrink balance sheets in order to reduce risk.

This will lead to defaults in the West and could even mark the beginning of a global liquidity crisis that can only be contained by Federal Reserve currency swap lines, like we saw in the early stages of the pandemic when markets were collapsing.

But even that technique may not work since there are no swap arrangements in place between the Fed and the Central Bank of Russia. The shooting war may or may not be over soon, but the financial war has just started and will continue after the shooting stops.

For that matter, a global financial panic may emerge even before the shooting stops. We all see what’s happening on the surface. Here’s what you don’t see: Someone is on the wrong side of every one of those trades. Hedge funds and banks are losing billions and are sinking. It takes about a week for bodies to float to the surface.
 
Are you talking about when Russia initially conquered Crimea, under Stalin, or later on under Putin? Because I really hate to break it to you, but the poor oppressed Crimean Tartars are not indigenous to Crimea and did not come peacefully; they enslaved and massacred an unknowable amount of Greeks and Goths, who in turn massacred and enslaved the previous residents. Facts are, Russians have been the biggest ethnic group of Crimea since the late 19th century and Crimea should have never been made part of Ukraine.
Did I say they were the biggest part of the population? Everyone is talking Stalin, I am talking recent history, 140,000 tartars who went back to Crimea basically got the boot, along with a shitton of Ukranians who lived there too. As that happened Russians moved the fuck on in.
 
Or in some cases stating blatantly untrue things, like saying Zelensky has 15% support. I don't doubt he is as corrupt/useless as previous Ukrainian leaders, but to assert that baseless figure is just a flat out lie.
Ahem.

Clipboard11.jpg
 
I tend to like the general statement of Fuck Putin, thtat's why. But as much as I go on about sovereignty... there is zero chance that Crimea will be anything other than moving from puppet state to annexation to Russia unless Putin implodes in a way that not even the most ardent Ukranian propagandist could imagine.

Doesn't mean Crimea won't be worse off, for it. That region was fucked the second Putin had his temper tantrum. But that is the way it goes, Russia or the Soviet Union fucks something up, then fucks things up worse when they have to deal with the repercussions of their actions.

But another answer was, they had the chance to delare independence in 1992, they chose to stick with Ukraine, sadly IR doesn't have takesies backsies.
are you angwy?
 
There was something else that happend in 2014. Something that could shook Ukrainian economy. I cant put my finger quite on it...

Ah, yeah! Russia took over Crimea and started war with it
As we know having less territory reduces your GDP per capita that's why Russia, being the biggest country, has the highest GDP per capita whereas Luxembourg is full of swamp dwelling subhumans.
 
"Curiously" if you try to find media reports critical of Zalensky's presidential run and the corruption in the election they come up in the Google search but when you click it you get an appropriate "doesn't exist" message from the media outlet. The Guardian in the UK was particularly critical of him, referring to him as "the Ukrainian Trump" during the election but have DFE'd all that coverage.
 
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the comments are incredible. twitter flipping out on biden like he has canceled the next avengers movie they were promised.
Seems like cooler heads are prevailing. I hope.
I disagree, it can be traced back at least as far as the Cossack Hetmanate that existed in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the autonomous Zaporozhian Cossack communities resisting Polish-Lithuanian rule before it. Perhaps even back to the Kingdom of Ruthenia from the 12th-14th centuries.
Hard pass on Cossacks. While they weren't globo home diverse like they will soon be portrayed as in a few years, they weren't one ethnic group. They were largely groups of exiled or wandering Slavs and nearby ethnic groups who settled the region when it was more of a no man's land between the PLC, Muscovy, and Turks down south. They played all three off eachother for a while but the hosts were never going to exist as their our independent state for long and always swore fealty to one of their neighbors until Russia incorporated them.
 
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Remind me again what he did towards achieving this goal during the 2 years he spent in office other than "fuck all".
Fair point. I am sure it was just the usual empty promise we often see that sounds good on the campaign trail, but is too much effort to be bothered with once you get in power.

Still, I think it is worth mentioning that he promised it, and that Ukrainians liked that pledge. Yet we are being told Ukrainians are genocidal and want to kill ethnic Russians.

And another thing people fail to mention is that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker, so the claim that he wants to persecute Russian speakers is also a ridiculous lie.

Is the Ukrainian government useless/corrupt? Of course, all governments are. Are they neo-nazis? No. There haven't been neo-nazis in Ukraine's parliament, let alone the cabinet, since they got 2% of the vote and failed to win any seats in 2019.
 
ukraine is only slightly less corrupt than russia according to every nonprofit who attempts to index this stuff.
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i'm not following this thread bc I hate russia too but you are just presenting the other over simplification. this country is not worth ww3.
I'd take that information with a grain of salt. It's good way to supplement evidence but corruption to a lot of people often boils down to "I disagree with their politics."
 
Oh so now we're talking about approval ratings, not votes received? Sorry I didn't realise the government changed every time a new opinion poll came out but feel free to shift those goal posts some more!

Also I'm gonna be a real prick here and point out that 20% is not 15%. :smug:

Edit: also I can play the approval rating game too!
Screenshot 2022-03-12 at 17.22.39.png
 
I tend to like the general statement of Fuck Putin, thtat's why. But as much as I go on about sovereignty... there is zero chance that Crimea will be anything other than moving from puppet state to annexation to Russia unless Putin implodes in a way that not even the most ardent Ukranian propagandist could imagine.

Doesn't mean Crimea won't be worse off, for it. That region was fucked the second Putin had his temper tantrum. But that is the way it goes, Russia or the Soviet Union fucks something up, then fucks things up worse when they have to deal with the repercussions of their actions.

But another answer was, they had the chance to delare independence in 1992, they chose to stick with Ukraine, sadly IR doesn't have takesies backsies.
Crimea did not have the chance to declare independence as the only referendum that they held prior to being incorporated into the Ukrainian Republic was regarding reestablishing the Crimean ASSR. The parliament of Crimea did vote to become an autonomous part of Ukraine, but they did not have any legal power to do so as the law stated that this could only be decided by a referendum, making it illegitimate.
Did I say they were the biggest part of the population? Everyone is talking Stalin, I am talking recent history, 140,000 tartars who went back to Crimea basically got the boot, along with a shitton of Ukranians who lived there too. As that happened Russians moved the fuck on in.
Now I know you're full of shit. The only numbers regarding the Ukrainian population of Crimea show that they decreased between 2001-2014 under Ukraine's watch. There's absolutely no evidence that I've seen that any of Crimea's ethnic groups have decreased in number since Putin annexed it. In fact, the population has increased by nearly 10%, which is practically unheard of in post-Soviet Eastern Europe.
 
Oh so now we're talking about approval ratings, not votes received? Sorry I didn't realise the government changed every time a new opinion poll came out but feel free to shift those goal posts some more!

Also I'm gonna be a real prick here and point out that 20% is not 15%. :smug:
Hypocrisy, thy name is DARVO. And thy last name is ACKSHUALLY.
 
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