Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[frap]

I don’t hate Ollie. I think he’s funny, but in a laughing at him not with him way. Every time I see that ridiculously huge skull and remember that footage of him a few months back, legs apart and full male stance yelling into the megaphone (reminiscent of the actors in Blackadder the Third) I can’t help but laugh. It’s so absurd that he thinks he’s one of the girls.

And I won’t feel guilty about that and I certainly don’t feel bad for him because what I’m doing (laughing at him) is harmless compared to what he and his brethren are trying to do to my entire sex.

He is basically willing to trash all female rights in his shallow pursuit of fame.

He’s not attention-starved. He’s just an attention-greedy narcissist. Well now he’s got my (and many others’) attention, and all I see is a clown.

(ETA final two paragraphs.)

 

[Swimminglanes]

 

[esmeggs]

Olly's older brother did (still does?) comedy and he had a cousin or something that is a writer for Veep iirc. I think it's possible that they encouraged him to try out comedy or that he might've looked up to his older relatives and wanted to emulate them. He seems to genuinely like performing too so he probably thought that would translate over into comedy before realizing that it was incredibly nerve-wracking for him (I only watched one of his routines but he looked so fucking uncomfortable and unsure of himself that it was actually somewhat endearing seeing some vulnerability from him).

I get that some people really hate Ollie and are repulsed by him. For me it's more of this weird, morbid, quite melancholy fascination of watching someone spiral down into narcissistic pathology. I do sympathise and empathise with him a lot; sometimes I feel a lot of compassion towards him. I absolutely feel a lot of guilt laughing and psychobabbling about him on here. Perhaps its my projection of my own narcissistic traits; perhaps it's part of a wider pattern I have where (as my friends have framed it to me) I tend to leave no stone unturned finding the 'good' in people even if they really don't merit the patience. I don't know what others experiences are with this; it would be interesting to know.

Spoiler: Personal opinions

Yeah I think we both feel really similarly when it comes to Olly. My fascination with him started out when I watched a few minutes of his coming out as trans video (after skipping to the end) and realized in that moment that autogynephilia is real. I also find him interesting because he obviously tries his hardest to embody a certain character/persona for the internet, attempting to get everyone to see him as some sort of flawless princess, but it doesn't work and his narcissism and entitlement shines through. It's interesting to watch unfold.

I do sympathize with him even though I know I shouldn't - he's a misogynistic pig and likely a narcissist - but I just can't bring myself to hate him. I think a lot of lolcows are the way they are because the people around them have failed them in a way, and I don't think Olly is an exception here even though he is extremely privileged. Slight PL but I think I sympathize with him because even though we come from very different backgrounds I can relate when it comes to having a ton of pressure put on you to succeed from a young age. I think this is something that has clearly gotten to him and also possibly contributed to him feeling the need to play a character, I also used that as a coping mechanism when I was at a low point and really immature. I definitely don't sympathize with him out of some sort of need to try to find the good in people because I do flat out hate Contrapoints and think Contra has absolutely zero redeeming qualities whatsoever. As I've said before I hope to see a redemption arc from Olly even though I know it will probably never happen, he's too far deep into his combo of autogynephilia, narcissism, and misogyny for that to be likely.

Came across this and it made me laugh:

I'm curious- did bi/straight women in this thread find him attractive before he trooned out?

 

[frap]

Came across this and it made me laugh:
View attachment 3072115
I'm curious- did bi/straight women in this thread find him attractive before he trooned out?

God no.

Spoiler: Mild PL

I'm a tomboyish bisexual and the men I have a history of going for are the sort of creative funny non-sporty types, and despite falling in that broad category, I find both pre- and post-troon Ollie repulsive. The poster is right about the 'smarmy and not as clever as he thinks' thing, but I don't find that hot. He looked like soy then and like a manpig now.

 

[AfghanBlue]

The flowers/graveyard joke was funny (to me). That was...clever, a good Steven Wright joke...and almost a well-constructed joke in his style (would've been better with some sort of set-up, if she'd be depressed because her grandma had just died, or something like that?). Everything else is...not the worst thing I've seen on an open mic comedy stage, but done with no timing, at all. On this I think Olly would likely agree, and I think he could perform this same not so great material much better now.

But wow, Olly is really, REALLY insecure? He was trying this and that and everything to be famous, wasn't he, for as long as he's been documented? I've said in another thread that Contrapoints' theme song was "Not If You Were the Last Junkie on Earth" by The Dandy Warhols. For sure, Olly's theme song is The Stone Roses "I Wanna Be Adored": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2qcbu26gs&ab_channel=StoneRosesVEVO

It seems like Olly has never not been a very sad, attention-starved boy. He tried to get adulation — a single "great job, Olly!" from someone, anyone — that wouldn't fade in 5 minutes back into the black hole of Olly's parental-induced (?) depression — through his student cadet thing, through his University years, through his stand up, through his Philosophy Tube channel, through his acting, through his Abigail era, through his Abigail era acting...he always seems to be looking for a path in life that will lead him to a non-stop 24/7 way to feel adored and important and listened to that would never go away — an eternal high of external praise — because he does not adore himself, he knows he's not important, and he feels no one listens to him. Maybe that's just the recipe for narcissism, but it seems very sad.

If you've read this much, as a shift in gears, even taking into account his newer "Abigail" character stuff, Olly's worst video ever was the Confucius one. He admits to not knowing anything about the subject, philosophically or historically or culturally or ANYTHING...and he proceeds to make a huge video about it, expanding well beyond even a basic intro to something that seeks to envelope all of Western philosophical tradition, too! It's insane...and it shows how little Olly respects his audience, other cultures, or philosophy.

If Contras song is the last junkie on earth, then Ollies should be BJMs clap-back single about them ripping them off...
lmao just listened to it again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQERSQGEViI

@Real Gay Autist i agree, on times when someone's posted an old video, i feel really bad for all the shit we talk on him, and feel really sorry for him, when you see his desperate insecurity laid bare- but then that dries up with record-breaking instantaneity, when you so much at glance at his current twitter feed or whatever.
i think you're completely right, he's gone utterly the wrong direction for happiness or self-knowledge, and at this point, continuing with this path, he will be extremely lucky to live a life of quiet misery, rather than a huge explosion of hate and insanity.

@esmeggs (hot=absolutely not)

 

[fax machine]

Also that Kat Blaque twitter thread; he is so effing insincere. (And why does he feel the need to constantly mention his English-ness?)
If Kat replies to him at all I'll eat my hat. Or....Idk, I'll eat something lol. I kinda dig Kat to be honest and have a suspicion that she can't stand Olly and never could.

Kat hasn't interacted once with Olly since he had his big coming out — not to congratulate him, to reply to his replies, or even to toss a like at them. This despite thirst tweeting about him during his feminist prince era and being extremely online now, endlessly discoursing with everyone from bluechecks to single digit follower accounts. There's no way Kat hasn't seen his acknowledgements of her existence. It's very apparent she's ignoring him. I love it.

Kat's the kind of person who tries her best to sympathize with trans Twitter activists because she's a trans woman, they're supposed to be her people, there's no use making enemies of friends when others are immovably convinced you're a monster, etc., but through the mist of her many disclaimers and civilities you can see her getting tired of the bullshit. She honestly believes in the principles of intersectional liberal feminism and applies them to her analyses of events. Of course she favors her ingroup, as people do, but it actually rattles her when people who say they're on her side violate the principles they claim to uphold. I hate that I have to remark on this — it's just normal human behavior — but the circles she runs in are so Internet poisoned into MY TEAM IS ALWAYS RIGHT brain that Kat's normal human behavior is remarkable. God help us all.

A few days ago, she took issue with doing misogyny ~ironically against women who, according to self described leftists, deserve it:

Of course the reproof was wrapped in some fifteen layers of hedging, but you can see that Kat is genuinely bothered by misogyny in a way that many people who claim to be feminist for Internet points are not. Kat wouldn't make a podcast like Kill James Bond. Kat wouldn't characterize cis women as the ultimate villains in her life. She has her own baggage and blindnesses, and I disagree with her on many fronts, but I also think she's fundamentally a sincere person and I respect that.

It is the recipe for narcissism, and it is sad. I've said it before, but I do actually feel really sorry for Ollie. I see that sad, attention-starved boy in him and want to give him a hug and tell him everything will be alright. He doesn't have to leap around like a needy puppy to be enough (2014-era Ollie); nor does he need to become a 'Princess' or a 'Sexy Latin teacher' who is always superior or impervious to criticism (Abigail-era Ollie). What's interesting is I feel that empathy I have towards him diminish as a function of how much more developed his Abigail persona becomes. He's conceptualized 'becoming Abigail' as finding his 'True Self', but it really seems to be the opposite. He's so commited to being Abigail that any hope of him finding and reconciling with his actual True Self, that hurt and unseen little boy, has become nigh on impossible. You can really see how becoming Abigail, this False Self, acts as a defence against feeling and resolving trauma. I am super-sceptical of Ollie's (supposed) therapist, who must be either (a) a total wet rag (b) totally brainwashed on gender-affirmative bullshit (c) keeping him around for the steady income.

I get that some people really hate Ollie and are repulsed by him. For me it's more of this weird, morbid, quite melancholy fascination of watching someone spiral down into narcissistic pathology. I do sympathise and empathise with him a lot; sometimes I feel a lot of compassion towards him. I absolutely feel a lot of guilt laughing and psychobabbling about him on here. Perhaps its my projection of my own narcissistic traits; perhaps it's part of a wider pattern I have where (as my friends have framed it to me) I tend to leave no stone unturned finding the 'good' in people even if they really don't merit the patience. I don't know what others experiences are with this; it would be interesting to know.

This is a beautiful, sensitive, generous post, and I hate that I don't have the heart to agree. How long can you wear a mask before it becomes your face to the world? How long can you suppress a true self before it ceases to be true? Maybe there's a kernel of vulnerability buried deep under his persona, but we all have inner selves, and we can't expect them to be recognized if we refuse to express them. Olly chooses his masks. He happily annihilates himself — what you call his true self — to be adored. I don't see anything wrong with judging him by that choice: by the material he puts out rather than the anguish he may or may not carry secretly inside.

Perhaps I'd have more sympathy for him if he had any sympathy for others, but he crushes enemies under his heel with fanatic relish and I cannot fuck with that. Changing yourself to feel more deserving of love is one thing. Pouring hellfire on others to make more special your own spot in heaven is another.

Looks like transhumanism is next.

 

[AfghanBlue]

lol what have we got here, so this is on nebula's store app....isnt
Nebula that private streaming thing the BTS was on?
looks like he's selling his shitty wares- but wait, a Teeshirt that misgenders and Deadchests him? omg

Can anyone work out what the No Terfs weird looking salad thing is reference to?

 

[Clem Fandango]

Judging by that reading list the next episode is....more tranny shit yet again, regardless of the episode title.

I'm not going crazy, right? Olly did say after transitioning that every episode wouldn't just be related to his newfound trans-ness?

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

I'm not going crazy, right? Olly did say after transitioning that every episode wouldn't just be related to his newfound trans-ness?

He did, and he lied. It's all Old Lies. Ol' Lies' Old Lies, if you will.

 

[The Jackal]

It is the recipe for narcissism, and it is sad. I've said it before, but I do actually feel really sorry for Ollie. I see that sad, attention-starved boy in him and want to give him a hug and tell him everything will be alright. He doesn't have to leap around like a needy puppy to be enough (2014-era Ollie); nor does he need to become a 'Princess' or a 'Sexy Latin teacher' who is always superior or impervious to criticism (Abigail-era Ollie). What's interesting is I feel that empathy I have towards him diminish as a function of how much more developed his Abigail persona becomes. He's conceptualized 'becoming Abigail' as finding his 'True Self', but it really seems to be the opposite. He's so commited to being Abigail that any hope of him finding and reconciling with his actual True Self, that hurt and unseen little boy, has become nigh on impossible. You can really see how becoming Abigail, this False Self, acts as a defence against feeling and resolving trauma. I am super-sceptical of Ollie's (supposed) therapist, who must be either (a) a total wet rag (b) totally brainwashed on gender-affirmative bullshit (c) keeping him around for the steady income.

I was reading some of the articles he wrote for Huffington Post et al. around 2014 and earlier, and yeah... he definitely seems to be in full mental decline. He seemed far more reasonable back then. Now he's off the deep end and claiming he's biologically female. Is it Contra's malign influence that made him that way?

I do sympathize with him even though I know I shouldn't - he's a misogynistic pig and likely a narcissist - but I just can't bring myself to hate him. I think a lot of lolcows are the way they are because the people around them have failed them in a way, and I don't think Olly is an exception here even though he is extremely privileged.

Personally, I don't think narcissism is a character flaw so much as a psychological defect, so while it makes you a very unattractive person, it's not something I'd ever hold against someone in itself.

Yeah I think we both feel really similarly when it comes to Olly. My fascination with him started out when I watched a few minutes of his coming out as trans video (after skipping to the end) and realized in that moment that autogynephilia is real. I also find him interesting because he obviously tries his hardest to embody a certain character/persona for the internet, attempting to get everyone to see him as some sort of flawless princess, but it doesn't work and his narcissism and entitlement shines through. It's interesting to watch unfold.

That's the vicious spiral he's got himself on. He can never be what he's trying to be, and it'll make him only more and more desperate to be validated.

 

[Pedro's Heel Turn]

Judging by that reading list the next episode is....more tranny shit yet again, regardless of the episode title.

I'm not going crazy, right? Olly did say after transitioning that every episode wouldn't just be related to his newfound trans-ness?

A promise made isn't necessarily a promise kept and if there's anyone out there who's going to embody that phrase it's good ol' Tubey

Expect more trans centric content for a long time to come

 

[A Dark Day Indeed]

He did, and he lied. It's all Old Lies. Ol' Lies' Old Lies, if you will.

Are we married to that one? I am not sure it represents our best work.

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Are we married to that one? I am not sure it represents our best work.

No, while it definitely caught on, I don't think we're married to it. At least not yet.

 

[Swimminglanes]

He's a bit like Grim Lavery in that his gut is telling him to tranny on and on and on hard enough and he will find the holy grail.

The philosophical answer as to why he's not an autogynephile is at the end of this quest.

He can't possibly accept that he's simply developed a weird sexual attraction to himself that we already know about.

No! Ollie, the ACTUAL Princess of Terf Island, will reveal the philosophical truth of why men are women to the world and be carried around triumphantly by giant truckers in shiny silver bikinis and thigh high boots like a ghastly Busby Berkeley parody, with humbled terfs at their feet begging forgiveness.

You wait.

 

[PennyAni]

Apologies in advance, I'm having a hard time with inserting quotes today.

@Real Gay Autist
I suspect you're just a really decent and charitable person, and I wish I was more like you.

@esmeggs
Umm....I mean, kinda? I didnt think he was "hot" and I never had a crush on him or anything, but yes I think it'd be fair to say that I thought PT was a fairly attractive guy. This co-mingled with his personality which I actually liked ghb or like the first several videos of his I ever saw. Once he started making the more theatrical Contra-esque videos and - I remember this vividly- the first time I watched one of his post mortem livestreams, I started picking up on the more unsavory aspects of his personality. He just became more and more smarmy and cringey and so clearly just in love with himself, which all culminated with the "Identity" video. And then I peaked- fast, hard and irreversibly.

@fax machine
Yes- you're articulating pretty much exactly how I feel about Kat Blaque. I actually go so far as to like her- most of the time anyway. Who- speaking of, did y'all see this?

!

I wonder what The True Princess Abigail will think about Kat's conclusions?

 

[aanoo]

View attachment 3072831

View attachment 3072771!View attachment 3072772View attachment 3072773

I wonder what The True Princess Abigail will think about Kat's conclusions?

Yep, Kat has clearly been affected by misogyny in some form for her* whole life. Visibly feminine kid, transitioned very young. A lot of what she talks about with regard to women’s experiences and trauma also rings true to me as a “cis” woman. And, most importantly, she clearly aligns herself with the concerns of women generally.

Olly doesn’t. Olly has literally transitioned for clout, into a very privileged space, after having a charmed and explicitly male upbringing. Like, he wouldn’t have had the same education if he was born female. He likely wouldn’t be so repulsively arrogant, or come off so creepy now. I’m sure Kat can see the difference too.

*I get some people may object to the female pronouns. I’m not saying her biology or experiences are analogous to women, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t clock her as a woman when I see her.

 

[AfghanBlue]

No, while it definitely caught on, I don't think we're married to it. At least not yet.

i have a great deal of warmth to it being as it a based on an honest mistake in my spaz typing

 

[PennyAni]

No, while it definitely caught on, I don't think we're married to it. At least not yet.

I'd say we're in a polyamorous relationship with it, along with "Chube" and "Abighoul" and a few others. I think it's super cute how it started out as an honest @AfghanBlue typo.

Olly doesn’t. Olly has literally transitioned for clout, into a very privileged space, after having a charmed and explicitly male upbringing. Like, he wouldn’t have had the same education if he was born female. He likely wouldn’t be so repulsively arrogant, or come off so creepy now. I’m sure Kat can see the difference too.

Oh yeah, I'd bet cash she does. While I don't agree with everything Kat says- by any means- I still think she's too good for breadtube and am glad she has pretty gracefully (IMO) eschewed any kind of known association with it. Even when some of the bigger breadtube names were apparently actively courting her to be part of their clique because it was too white, which is just not a good look, babes!

I also wondered if that bit where she says that even "engaging in ironic misogyny to defend trans folk against TERFs" is never helpful, while ostensibly about Vaush, might also have been aimed at some of Olly's recent tweets as well? I'd like to think it was, anyway.

 

[cia-log]

HSTS realizing AGPs are just abusive narcs

the Kat the Blaque to Blaire the White pipeline

 

[The Jackal]

HSTS realizing AGPs are just abusive narcs

the Kat the Blaque to Blaire the White pipeline

The opening manoeuvres of a troon civil war perhaps?