Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

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I don't watch his videos but I'm fairly certain that character is supposed to a middle-aged "TERF" and "women and gahls" is supposed to be the feminist equivalent of "think of the children!!!" Like really it's just Olly mocking feminist women (similar to the way that people mock evangelical Christians, even though these two groups are entirely different ofc)
Right, so it doesn't really seem to work? He keeps bringing it up in situations where the context is....the rights of women and girls.

It's like doing that "think of the children!" bit at a PTA meeting. People are just going to think what's this weirdo going on about?
 
I don't even get the meme. I haven't seen the video it's from, but is it really just him putting a wig on and saying the word "girls" in a funny way?
The character is basically a middle class liberal journalist, Adelaide Sweetly-Schmidt. She spends her time hand wringing about anti-arson regulations and that people are being too rude and aggressive about taking precautions about arson - arson is a (dumb) analogy for fascism.

Essentially the character is a cryptofascist dressed up as a milquetoast liberal, who plays up her fragility and vulnerability to try and manipulate her audience into thinking her concerns are genuine. Whenever he posts "women and gahls", Ollie is essentially arguing that the thing he's reacting to is a nasty evil transphobe who wants an excuse to victimise trans people, so is only pretending to be concerned.

For example, JK Rowling's concerns about single sex spaces are because she just hates trans people, and she isn't actually concerned about the safety or wellbeing of girls - it's performative faux concern to maintain respectability and plausible deniability about her plans to literally genocide all trans people.
 
On the do you find Olly attractive front - for me definitely not - I find it too hard to divorce looks from personality. I did see a picture of him when he was much younger and had that hugh grant hair/English thing going for him so he is not unattractive but that's not really my thing. There is this thread "lolcows you would unironically sex" and Olly does appear in that thread (more than once) to my surprise lol.

I am more sympathetic to Olly because its obvious he hates himself first and hates women second. The reverse is true for Contra which is why I have no time for him - Contras hate is so outward and vicious.

Olly is like a bumbling Alan partridge so ego driven, yet so unaware of other peoples perceptions of him and clamouring for any chance at fame. Contra is a Ron Jeremy/Buffalo Bill hybrid - a sinister skinwalker who is weirdly lauded. I think people are more forgiving of Contra because in their eyes he's actually good at something/pioneered the breadtube essay whereas Olly has produced absolute drivel.

I'm fascinated by them both because I don't have much experience with narcs so their behaviour never ceases to interest me lol.
 
From AssignedEva's quote:
You may ask yourself. "How do I know my teeth exist?" but as you bite into a sandwich you can't help but believe in their metaphysical reality.

You may ask yourself "Why isn't a trans woman a woman?" as you brush their cheek you feel the beard stubble and differently sized pores. You may ask yourself "Why not include trans women in my feminism?" as you accidentally bump shoulders with them and see their misshapen breast. You may ask yourself "How do lesbians know they don't like dick?" when you see a transwoman accidentally get a boner. And you may ask yourself, "My god, what have I done?!"

With this one sentence he runs over his own argument for me. I can constantly say trans women are women but as soon as I encounter one and run into physical traits and male socalization I'm not being skeptical, I'm being handed the metaphysical reality to my eyes, ears, and touch. I hate doing reversals like this, but the industrial amount of skeptical coleslaw he speaks of is the church of trans itself, not the women sinking their teeth into the sandwich.

If he gets prostate cancer, will he realize he has to face the metaphysical reality of it?
 
Honestly the too much cynicism is like a plate full of coleslaw reference sounds a lot like those tactics cults use to shut down critical thought. Similar to toxic positivity or the like. Basically he's saying 'don't think about it too much'. I don't know the full context of the reference since Ollie is catastrophically bad at engaging with citations in his videos so I could be misunderstanding it.
 
Transhumanism is something I'm specifically interested in so I'm wondering what angle on it he's going to take on it in the upcoming vid. Probably "in the future trans women will be indistinguishable from cis women therefore trans women are valid." That's the reason so many trannies are invested in it, anyway.
 
Transhumanism is something I'm specifically interested in so I'm wondering what angle on it he's going to take on it in the upcoming vid. Probably "in the future trans women will be indistinguishable from cis women therefore trans women are valid." That's the reason so many trannies are invested in it, anyway.
Hotswappable genitals, artificial wombs, brain pods that can be implanted into any body (furry faggots and otherkin loonies).

"Let's assume a woman who has an artificial womb and an artificial vagina which look and work the same as biological ones. How is that woman any different from a biological woman? Checkmate, transphobes! With the meaningless barriers and discriminations of biology gone the distinction between cis and trans will become meaningless. Abandon your pitiful ideological positions and join us on the right side of history! We won't bite, I promise."
 

I hate the word 'mansplaining', but this gesture and face he's doing really scream 'mansplaining'.

Here he is casting himself as the most oppressed person in all of Britain. It’s interesting because Olly doesn’t even bother adding a coda like, “but of course black trans lives have it far worse” etc like the white woketards usually do.

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What more does he fucking want from the country? It provided him a first-class education, a lifestyle funded by the proceeds of his stupid, pointless YouTube channel and podcast, legions of online simps.

It's a rhetorical question of course, because pretending he's oppressed is the only thing he lives for and without it he'd be miserable.

I'm fairly sure he lives somewhere around Dalston.

Interesting. Next time I happen to be in Dalston, I'll keep an eye out. Perhaps I'll get to see Olly in the wild.

From AssignedEva's quote:

You may ask yourself "Why isn't a trans woman a woman?" as you brush their cheek you feel the beard stubble and differently sized pores. You may ask yourself "Why not include trans women in my feminism?" as you accidentally bump shoulders with them and see their misshapen breast. You may ask yourself "How do lesbians know they don't like dick?" when you see a transwoman accidentally get a boner. And you may ask yourself, "My god, what have I done?!"

With this one sentence he runs over his own argument for me. I can constantly say trans women are women but as soon as I encounter one and run into physical traits and male socalization I'm not being skeptical, I'm being handed the metaphysical reality to my eyes, ears, and touch. I hate doing reversals like this, but the industrial amount of skeptical coleslaw he speaks of is the church of trans itself, not the women sinking their teeth into the sandwich.

If he gets prostate cancer, will he realize he has to face the metaphysical reality of it?

You've hit the nail on the head. Which is the more plausible reality? That transwomen are women or that they are men? If a cat is dressed up to look like a chicken, does that make it a chicken? I can empirically judge that Olly is a man; to consider him a woman requires a leap of faith.
 
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Honestly the too much cynicism is like a plate full of coleslaw reference sounds a lot like those tactics cults use to shut down critical thought. Similar to toxic positivity or the like. Basically he's saying 'don't think about it too much'. I don't know the full context of the reference since Ollie is catastrophically bad at engaging with citations in his videos so I could be misunderstanding it.
So this quote is something he made up. David Hume never said anything about coleslaw because coleslaw had basically only just been invented in the 18th century.

David Hume's perspective was kinda that rationality has limits - where other Enlightenment writers were trying to view the world through order and reason, he was more like "It's impossible to know anything empirically because everything is filtered through our senses and so we can only make assumptions based on what we're experiencing, and we fall into patterns based off previous experiences". So for example you can't empirically prove that sticking your hand into a candle's flame will hurt you, you just assume based on prior experiences with candle flames that usually that hurts you. But also that a literal child will work that out, so not being able to empirically prove something isn't necessarily a big deal?

Relatedly there's the concept that morality isn't really about rationality, but more about good and bad feelings. Cheating isn't wrong because of a rational thing, but because it causes hurt, and your "operations of sympathy" (basically empathy) make that feel bad. We can use rationalisations to describe why things are good or bad, but they're just post hoc justifications and it's really just about feelings, which aren't always rational. This is kinda like utilitarianism - he thinks celibacy is bad and a denial of our human feelings, but also being super horny all the time is bad because it makes society less stable.

I'm not explaining this well because I'm not a philosopher... but basically "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and body them" - in other words, the opposite of "facts don't care about your feelings".

You could use Hume's approach to argue that there's no meaningful definition of what a man or what a woman is, but that's not really what he was arguing. He argued that there isn't really a consistent "self" - when you try and percieve yourself, you're perceiving how you are in the moment; maybe you're hungry, maybe you're upset at something your boss said, maybe you're in a good mood because it's sunny outside. You're a bundle of perceptions and the pattern of those perceptions creates an idea of a personal identity, but there's not really an empirical "you" - so you could also take that approach to argue trans women are not women in any meaningful way and they're just perceiving themselves as women.

He was mostly arguing that if you're a stickler for empiricism you're going to tie yourself up in circles, and we have to accept that humans aren't rational and are full of contradictions. He certainly wasn't of the opinion "if someone says they're a lesbian then just accept that and don't question it". He was a proponent of being sceptical of dogma and orthodoxy, arguing that religious belief is usually because of fear and the positive feeling of being in a congregation rather than because God is real.

Ollie's main falling down in his argument is he thinks transphobes go "how does someone know they're a lesbian" and not "this person thinks they're a lesbian but they're not".
 
So this quote is something he made up. David Hume never said anything about coleslaw because coleslaw had basically only just been invented in the 18th century.

David Hume's perspective was kinda that rationality has limits - where other Enlightenment writers were trying to view the world through order and reason, he was more like "It's impossible to know anything empirically because everything is filtered through our senses and so we can only make assumptions based on what we're experiencing, and we fall into patterns based off previous experiences". So for example you can't empirically prove that sticking your hand into a candle's flame will hurt you, you just assume based on prior experiences with candle flames that usually that hurts you. But also that a literal child will work that out, so not being able to empirically prove something isn't necessarily a big deal?

Relatedly there's the concept that morality isn't really about rationality, but more about good and bad feelings. Cheating isn't wrong because of a rational thing, but because it causes hurt, and your "operations of sympathy" (basically empathy) make that feel bad. We can use rationalisations to describe why things are good or bad, but they're just post hoc justifications and it's really just about feelings, which aren't always rational. This is kinda like utilitarianism - he thinks celibacy is bad and a denial of our human feelings, but also being super horny all the time is bad because it makes society less stable.

I'm not explaining this well because I'm not a philosopher... but basically "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and body them" - in other words, the opposite of "facts don't care about your feelings".

You could use Hume's approach to argue that there's no meaningful definition of what a man or what a woman is, but that's not really what he was arguing. He argued that there isn't really a consistent "self" - when you try and percieve yourself, you're perceiving how you are in the moment; maybe you're hungry, maybe you're upset at something your boss said, maybe you're in a good mood because it's sunny outside. You're a bundle of perceptions and the pattern of those perceptions creates an idea of a personal identity, but there's not really an empirical "you" - so you could also take that approach to argue trans women are not women in any meaningful way and they're just perceiving themselves as women.

He was mostly arguing that if you're a stickler for empiricism you're going to tie yourself up in circles, and we have to accept that humans aren't rational and are full of contradictions. He certainly wasn't of the opinion "if someone says they're a lesbian then just accept that and don't question it". He was a proponent of being sceptical of dogma and orthodoxy, arguing that religious belief is usually because of fear and the positive feeling of being in a congregation rather than because God is real.

Ollie's main falling down in his argument is he thinks transphobes go "how does someone know they're a lesbian" and not "this person thinks they're a lesbian but they're not".
You're not a philosopher but you explained Hume so much better than Ollie fucking did.
 
Olly is like a bumbling Alan partridge so ego driven, yet so unaware of other peoples perceptions of him and clamouring for any chance at fame. Contra is a Ron Jeremy/Buffalo Bill hybrid - a sinister skinwalker who is weirdly lauded. I think people are more forgiving of Contra because in their eyes he's actually good at something/pioneered the breadtube essay whereas Olly has produced absolute drivel.

I'm fascinated by them both because I don't have much experience with narcs so their behaviour never ceases to interest me lol.
Olly is legit:


Man I forgotten exactly how bad he was getting with that Philsosophy video.
There’s a reason St. Andrews ain’t exactly shouting about him from the rooftops, with this representation of their syllabus.

In the other hand he has mentioned he went there about 47,000 times?
Alumni dick usually gets sucked pretty hard, most especially when any sort of public facing figure.


It’s a bit weird to be telling everyone where you went to Uni, after like the first year or two of being there, when its relevant.

Bet that video just never works. Honestly what is wrong with video on kf.
 
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Oh ok I was confused since I thought I was the closest thing we've had to an Olly defender in this thread lol. I agree that both Olly and Contra are very manipulative when they are attempting to be "open and honest" with their fans. Shit like this just screams "feel sorry for me and don't listen to what JKR is saying because it makes me feel bad :("
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He refuses to stop mocking women's rights but has stopped trying to meme himself.
This dude is instrumental in peaking so many women right now
 
So this quote is something he made up. David Hume never said anything about coleslaw because coleslaw had basically only just been invented in the 18th century.

David Hume's perspective was kinda that rationality has limits - where other Enlightenment writers were trying to view the world through order and reason, he was more like "It's impossible to know anything empirically because everything is filtered through our senses and so we can only make assumptions based on what we're experiencing, and we fall into patterns based off previous experiences". So for example you can't empirically prove that sticking your hand into a candle's flame will hurt you, you just assume based on prior experiences with candle flames that usually that hurts you. But also that a literal child will work that out, so not being able to empirically prove something isn't necessarily a big deal?

The background to all this is the split between British empiricism (Hume, Locke, Newton) vs continental rationalism (Liebniz, Descartes, Pascal) which took place in the 18th century. The argument is about whether truth can be arrived at through reason alone or not.

What I think he was implicitly referencing was the famous line of Samuel Johnson in response to George Berkeley, who argued that it was impossible to know if gravity actually existed or was just a delusion. Johnson, when told of this, kicked a stone and said "I refute it thus".

I'm guessing Olly hid this behind a made-up quotation from Hume because either he thought it would be funny, or he wanted to hide the fact that he's too lazy to do any research for his videos, or both. Of course it backfired, because the TRAs' arguments are explicitly non-empirical.
 
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So this quote is something he made up. David Hume never said anything about coleslaw because coleslaw had basically only just been invented in the 18th century.

David Hume's perspective was kinda that rationality has limits - where other Enlightenment writers were trying to view the world through order and reason, he was more like "It's impossible to know anything empirically because everything is filtered through our senses and so we can only make assumptions based on what we're experiencing, and we fall into patterns based off previous experiences". So for example you can't empirically prove that sticking your hand into a candle's flame will hurt you, you just assume based on prior experiences with candle flames that usually that hurts you. But also that a literal child will work that out, so not being able to empirically prove something isn't necessarily a big deal?

Relatedly there's the concept that morality isn't really about rationality, but more about good and bad feelings. Cheating isn't wrong because of a rational thing, but because it causes hurt, and your "operations of sympathy" (basically empathy) make that feel bad. We can use rationalisations to describe why things are good or bad, but they're just post hoc justifications and it's really just about feelings, which aren't always rational. This is kinda like utilitarianism - he thinks celibacy is bad and a denial of our human feelings, but also being super horny all the time is bad because it makes society less stable.

I'm not explaining this well because I'm not a philosopher... but basically "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and body them" - in other words, the opposite of "facts don't care about your feelings".

You could use Hume's approach to argue that there's no meaningful definition of what a man or what a woman is, but that's not really what he was arguing. He argued that there isn't really a consistent "self" - when you try and percieve yourself, you're perceiving how you are in the moment; maybe you're hungry, maybe you're upset at something your boss said, maybe you're in a good mood because it's sunny outside. You're a bundle of perceptions and the pattern of those perceptions creates an idea of a personal identity, but there's not really an empirical "you" - so you could also take that approach to argue trans women are not women in any meaningful way and they're just perceiving themselves as women.

He was mostly arguing that if you're a stickler for empiricism you're going to tie yourself up in circles, and we have to accept that humans aren't rational and are full of contradictions. He certainly wasn't of the opinion "if someone says they're a lesbian then just accept that and don't question it". He was a proponent of being sceptical of dogma and orthodoxy, arguing that religious belief is usually because of fear and the positive feeling of being in a congregation rather than because God is real.

Ollie's main falling down in his argument is he thinks transphobes go "how does someone know they're a lesbian" and not "this person thinks they're a lesbian but they're not".
His whole argument literally contradicts himself- HE is the one saying ‘how do you know, how do you know’ about the actual nature of what is a man and what is a woman.

It’s pretty fucking obvious on a very surface level 95% of the time- the rest of the time, it takes the removal of a layer of clothing, if you’re really gonna be in a situation where someone’s gender matters more than what is civilly observable.

It’s insane how he thinks it’s chill to just throw wrongs, falsely, behind countering lines, and this is somehow reasonable- his seeth was showing through, I guess he wanted to show himself off as Mr Super Ally, so righteously angry it didn’t matter, but it just seemed pathetic. Contra managed it without stopping to such levels and it benefited her arguement enormously
 
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The background to all this is the split between British empiricism (Hume, Locke, Newton) vs continental rationalism (Liebniz, Descartes, Pascal) which took place in the 18th century. The argument is about whether truth can be arrived at through reason alone or not.

What I think he was implicitly referencing was the famous line of Samuel Johnson in response to George Berkeley, who argued that it was impossible to know if gravity actually existed or was just a delusion. Johnson, when told of this, kicked a stone and said "I refute it thus".

I'm guessing Olly hid this behind a made-up quotation from Hume because either he thought it would be funny, or he wanted to hide the fact that he's too lazy to do any research for his videos, or both. Of course it backfired, because the TRAs' arguments are explicitly non-empirical.
Telling that wikipedia has an article on that as a logical fallacy, whole theses on why Johnson was actually wrong and dumb, when the example is refuting the absurd claim that gravity cannot be known by practical demonstration. These people are not aware of any reality that cannot be reasoned with or changed by perception. Johnson was right because humans interact with forces which don't care. While the philosophaster argues in the lecture hall, the guy shoveling shit out of the academy sewer knows gravity exists full well. These are wealthy people who don't (won't) work with their hands. They start to inhabit their alternate realities, and try to enforce their delusions in society. It's the wealthiest people with identity problems trooning out. This is a kind of hubris-affluenza hybrid. A year having to work full time for your own room and board would be a good first step, but he's too far gone to even see work as a remedy. Olly's doubled down, living as if he truly is the woman he desperately wants to be. It's the same retreat into delusion as Chris, except in degree. It will end in tragic failure, and his parents will commit or bury him.
 
Basically he's saying 'don't think about it too much'.
Is there irony in a philosophy channel saying that?
A year having to work full time for your own room and board would be a good first step, but he's too far gone to even see work as a remedy. Olly's doubled down, living as if he truly is the woman he desperately wants to be. It's the same retreat into delusion as Chris, except in degree. It will end in tragic failure, and his parents will commit or bury him.
You know he'd just end up coming back to youtube using it as pinnacle trauma as well as him being able to claim he's a trendy prole. Then of course failure and or burying/commitment.
Transhumanism is something I'm specifically interested in so I'm wondering what angle on it he's going to take on it in the upcoming vid. Probably "in the future trans women will be indistinguishable from cis women therefore trans women are valid." That's the reason so many trannies are invested in it, anyway.
To be able to reshape your body to your liking, to become what YOU WANT others to see YOU as... a insecure person's dream.

We cannot yet reshape our biological reality yet, only our outlook. I can see what attracted him to philosophy so much now.
What about controlling our actions or taking responsibility for our thoughts as people? lol. Or doing actual work building or growing things with our hands? Double lol.
He was a proponent of being sceptical of dogma and orthodoxy, arguing that religious belief is usually because of fear and the positive feeling of being in a congregation rather than because God is real
To see yourself as the atheist when you're a part of the church now is always bizarre to me. At least people who join cults usually admit that belief is key (and proudly) to what their dogma is.

Rename this point in gender history as the era of good gender feelings and I think we got something.
This dude is instrumental in peaking so many women right now
Trans people want more trans representation both in front of and behind the camera but there's more self centered troons in the universe than normal trans people. If you hand them enough rope, your opponent hangs themselves.

I'm guessing Olly hid this behind a made-up quotation from Hume because either he thought it would be funny, or he wanted to hide the fact that he's too lazy to do any research for his videos, or both. Of course it backfired, because the TRAs' arguments are explicitly non-empirical.
His fanbase should pray it's the former. Imagine a philosophy channel that did lousy research. I mean, that wouldn't be too bad unless it was trying to say it was giving you a degree without having to go to college yourself. :story:
 
Telling that wikipedia has an article on that as a logical fallacy, whole theses on why Johnson was actually wrong and dumb, when the example is refuting the absurd claim that gravity cannot be known by practical demonstration. These people are not aware of any reality that cannot be reasoned with or changed by perception. Johnson was right because humans interact with forces which don't care. While the philosophaster argues in the lecture hall, the guy shoveling shit out of the academy sewer knows gravity exists full well. These are wealthy people who don't (won't) work with their hands. They start to inhabit their alternate realities, and try to enforce their delusions in society. It's the wealthiest people with identity problems trooning out. This is a kind of hubris-affluenza hybrid. A year having to work full time for your own room and board would be a good first step, but he's too far gone to even see work as a remedy. Olly's doubled down, living as if he truly is the woman he desperately wants to be. It's the same retreat into delusion as Chris, except in degree. It will end in tragic failure, and his parents will commit or bury him.

You could argue that it is, strictly speaking, a logical fallacy but empirically it is correct. It's true that everything I perceive around me in the world may be just a dream, or a spell cast on me by a demon, or whatever. But what good does this observation do me? I only have my senses to inform me what is real and what isn't, so it is meaningless to make suppositions about reality which are independent of this information. This is essentially what a logical positivist (or a scientist for that matter) would argue.
 
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