Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

How well is the war this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 249 10.6%

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ I ain't afraid of no Ghost of Kiev

    Votes: 278 11.8%

  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 796 33.7%

  • ⭐⭐ Stalemate

    Votes: 659 27.9%

  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 378 16.0%
  • Total voters
    2,360
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LurkTrawl said:
I could ask in what further context does it make one okay and not the other.
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If you could then you should do it. Conversational shortcuts are useful if it's either a casual conversation or if your interlocutors are all in absolute agreement with you. If you accuse me of "intellectual cowardice", then the actions one exhibits when performing whataboutery is intellectual laziness of the highest order.
LurkTrawl said:
Or I could be a dick and point out that you're proving my point in this section of your post, precisely, that it's about shutting down avenues of discussion that are uncomfortable or inconvenient to the narrative that you ascribe to.
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You're reshaping the argument because within the provided parameters you cannot achieve argumentative supremacy. Hence your need to invoke other entities performing similar actions. If you wish for such an invocation, you are required to connect the threads, so it doesn't sound like a desperate argument a-la "what is good for the goose, is good for the gander"

LurkTrawl said:
The conversation is still within the boundaries of the situation as we're talking about the history behind it. History, world events, and specifically geopolitics do not exist within a vacuum. History, and the actions of rulers/nations/governments are written in stone, not sand. To dismiss them is to effectively dismiss any productive discussion of any current dialogue.
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Nobody is talking about an outright dismissal. I, personally, am arguing about the necessity of elaborating arguments instead of resorting to shortcuts like whataboutery. For some reason, it looks like you defend lazy argumentation.

LurkTrawl said:
If you don't know enough to understand what hypocrisy is being talked about, perhaps you shouldn't act like you have an informed take on the situation?
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Are you asserting that you are aware of the geopolitical parallels between CIA actions in Cuba and the Russian war in Ukraine? If so, please provide your point and judging on your argumentation and facts provided we can assert who knows what and what level of knowledge we occupy.
 
BiggerChungus said:
Can't reply to him for some reason but
>shit since the 70s
That's why all those new Russian tanks and jets caused NATO repeat panic attacks, right? Tanks being the main reason we (US) made the Abrams? And it's why the CIA was paying people to try to steal Spetsnaz gear in Afghanistan and bring it to them, right? I'm not trying to sound like a total Russophile, but they got good shit, and I'll never get why it's a funny internet meme to act like Russia has a third-world ass-backward army with shittier gear and training than Somalian pirates. Joke's one thing, but there are people who legit believe that, and I just don't get it.
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But they don't have enough good shit. They just do not have the industrial capability or economy to mass produce their quality equipment pre-war. Now, I find it more likely that they'll reverse engineer NATO gear and move away from tank brigades.

That being said, you're right that everyone doesn't give Russia enough credit. Had the US stopped expanding NATO as proof of good will of the Russian Reset, Russia wouldn't have been paranoid enough to launch an invasion in the first place. They'd still have their buffer states that they can barely take over, but it wouldn't matter because their capital would have been sufficiently secure from the US. Now they know the US has been fucking around in their neighbor's yard and plan to take them out, they freaked out.
 
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LurkTrawl said:
I also asked what the differences are between this, the bay of pigs incident, and the media freaking out over Russian reinforcement of Cuba because it'd elaborate on the idea. If you don't want to discuss that, or go into that, that's fine. But I wonder if it's out of ignorance or out of a lack of willingness to engage with the subject due to how damaging it is to whatever narrative you'd rather have in place.
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Leading questions are not okay even on trial. Why would they be okay in a conversation with someone who wishes to win an argument? I am not responding to a leading question because I have a reason to believe that you require me to do argumentative work for you. Why won't you do it yourself?
 
BaldAndMorallyBankrupt said:
The only reason slavs aren't basically just slightly fairer gypsies now a days is because they adopted Orthodoxy and accepted everything that came with it without condition. Their entire writing system, Cyrillic, is just a slightly more refined version of a writing system created specifically so Orthodox priests could teach them Orthodoxy because guess what, they didn't have a unified language or a well defined language before that.

That's why your average european looks down upon the slavic nations, that's why your average european doesn't give a fuck about slavs killing each other, because only Americans think 200 years is a long time. There are plenty of peoples that have existed before them, still exist with them and will continue to exist after them. People like to make fun of Hoteps about "We wuz kangz" but the entirety of modern slavic history is a fucking LARP of that, that despite not having a proper language, or religion or culture, or hell even know what a chair or a spoon was that they somehow were the most powerful *insert administrative unit* of the region in *insert earliest plausible century they can give*.
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Kievan Rus adopted Orthodoxy in like 700 AD.

Your argument that the totally-always-culturally-homogenous European nations not caring about slavs because they existed before and will exist after slavic nations is retarded considering there isn't a single European country that has existed even relatively unchanged since whatever bullshit point on the timeline you want to point to. The Treaty of Verdun around the same time as Kievan Rus was adopting Orthodoxy and beginning to flourish just drew an arbitrary line through Europe and said "ok this part is West Francia and this part is East Francia" which essentially created what we now consider "France" and "Germany" but those countries are just as arbitrary as "Poland" and "Serbia" when you really get down to it.

The bullshit about "not having a proper language, religion or culture" is just invented out of whole cloth as well. Countries in that period are always composed of smaller cities, villages, regions that all speak their own dialect, have their own cultures, and often have differing religions (or different flavors of the same pagan/polytheist views). That's even true to this day, in modern countries like, for example, France, Germany, etc.
 
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Vince McMahon said:
What exactly is owed by Ukrainians to Russia? Do we consider Ukrainians by their passports or by their ethnic makeup?

And the Russians - do you mean Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin? Under what authority has he been vested a "collector of debt"?
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I assume by the authority of "bombs and armies and shit".

That tends to be the same authority we rely on over here in the U.S.
 
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Kane Lives said:
There's an entire jewish oblast actually.
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Well the answer will of course be that if Russian Jews can in your opinion be Russian, then Ukrainian Jews can be Ukrainian. And vice versa if you believe a Russian Jew can't be Russian then obviously a Ukrainian Jew can't be Ukrainian.

I don't see the gotcha in pointing out that either nation has Jews, and often in high ranking positions just like in the US
 
Status-6. said:
not really related to what you're saying but my thoughts are:
if one country does evil shit which with it gains more power another country must also do evil shit to survive and counter their tactics.
If you're not willing to rape the town rapist he will rape your daughter when your not looking. but if you have a mutually assured anus rape treaty he might pick the neighbor next door.
I think in that sense whataboutisms is not something to look negative upon.
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Russia isn't doing evil shit to counter the US here. Russia invading Ukraine and bombing it to shit does more to strengthen the US-led order than literally anything else. Especially if Russia wins and conquers Ukraine, US MIC will suddenly be rolling in cash once more because China isn't biting on Taiwan and here Russia just went full retard and made every single Cold War pundit relevant again.
 
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Why is it so easy to fool media with Arma 3 screenshots? You think they would have someone, out of all the editors, be able to take a look and notice something is off.
 
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So apparently the Ukrainian is launching several counter-offensive, or so they claimed. I do have watched a video of a Ukrainian Airmobile Brigade saying they have successfully counter-attacked in Luhansk
 
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