Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[bifftango]

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>Y-you want to go where Old Trek has gone before?
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Free pap smears on set!

 

[UnKillFill]

 

[AnOminous]

Tell me you wouldn't have banged the shit out of Marina Sirtis in her heyday.

 

[Miller]

>"guys, they're totally making old Trek again! Trust Akiva Goldsman!"



Once again, Kurtzman Trek is ripping off Mass Effect.

 

[Lithos]

>"guys, they're totally making old Trek again! Trust Akiva Goldsman!"

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Once again, Kurtzman Trek is ripping off Mass Effect.

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So, they're appealing to AAA gamers to try and get into Trek? Well, let's wait for the Assassin's Creed plots to take off.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Tell me you wouldn't have banged the shit out of Marina Sirtis in her heyday.

 

[khaine]

So apparently while intercepting the text, Laris says something like "Schaol" which Amazon Prime subtitled "Kach!", and Paramount+ US subs say: [speaks Romulan]. It was clear that in her home, the text on the pad and interface was also Romulan... This show gets dumber all the time.

Also, A tweet by showrunner Matalas indicates at this point of the show, he moved onto Season 3 planning leaving the following episodes to Akiva Goldsman. So its likely to get even worse.

 

[Miller]

So apparently while intercepting the text, Laris says something like "Schaol" which Amazon Prime subtitled "Kach!", and Paramount+ US subs say: [speaks Romulan]. It was clear that in her home, the text on the pad and interface was also Romulan... This show gets dumber all the time.

I noticed that too, I knew it didn't make sense since they established a couple of episodes earlier that not-Laris was not a Romulan.
This is another proof that they can have up to 4 writers on the same script and no one bother to read what other people wrote in a previous episode.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I noticed that too, I knew it didn't make sense since they established a couple of episodes earlier that not-Laris was not a Romulan.
This is another proof that they can have up to 4 writers on the same script and no one bother to read what other people wrote in a previous episode.

Reading is for nerds. Kurtzman doesn't hire nerds.

 

[glib]

Isn't it sad that they will try to do everything except make a spinoff in the same sensibility as TOS, TNG, and DS9?

Like they can't figure out that the format of Star Trek is:

Captain (Kirk/Picard/Sisko) = Primary Protagonist
Close Advisors (Spock/McCoy)(Troi/Crusher)(Dax/Nerys) = Supporting Stars
Crew (First Officer/Security/Engineer/Medical/Helmsman/Comms) = Supporting cast
Protagonist Guest Stars = Allies of the federation, or potential allies that need the help of the crew/federation (/Sarek/Setal/Edith Keeler/Vedek Bareil/Li Nalas)
Antagonist Guest Stars = Philosophical opposition/problem to solve/obstacle/test (Khan/Q/Tomalek/Dukat/Lemec/Vedek Winn/etc.)
Factional conflicts = Philosophical opposition/problem to solve but as a quantity, not as a quality necessarily (Romulans/Borg/Dominion/Cardassians/Maquis/etc.)

There has to be a setting that is "home base". It can be a ship, it can be a station, it could even be a planet potentially. However, the more mobile it is, the more opportunity there is for novel stories.
There have to be either recurring villains that represent a faction, or a recurring faction that has an oppositional ethos to the federation.
There has to be a level of serialization, and self containment, and there also has to be character growth over the course of the show.
The main draw is drama conveyed through dialogue and the performances, not action/gadgetry.
The aesthetic has to be consistent, pleasant, and comfortable enough for you to want to be there. OR reflective of the faction/environment opposing the federation.
There has to be a moral superiority to what the federation stands for, and all other civilizations have to conflict in some way with it. This also should be tested to increase tension/drama.
Violence is usually not the immediate answer to a problem. It is usually the first answer that results in horrible consequences. But, the first answer is usually a plot complication, and the story is usually about resolving the issue through other means.
Technology is meant to make mundane things simple,and to cover up the cost of a complex effect, so that the story can focus on conflict and consequences.

Characters should be good at their jobs, but they should also have other aspects of their character that make them three dimensional, and give them a weakness.
Kirk is a great captain, strong and intelligent, but can be egotistical and full of himself.
Spock can be supremely rational, but has identity issues due to his mixed race status.
Mccoy is a doctor, but is concerned with the soul, and is something of a technological luddite.
Sisko is an honorable man, but when he has to, he has no problem bending the rules so that they can be unbent back into the right direction. He also doesn't respect the religion or culture of the people he is supposed to look over.
Worf is a great Klingon warrior but he is a member of the federation, and his family has been disrespected by the people he wants respect from, so he doesn't necessarily believe the Federation or the Klingon Empire have everything correct.
Bashir is a great doctor, but is himself a medical experiment. Lacks what he really wants most which is to be important, have female companionship, and adventure.
Data is almost a perfect android, but wants to have human emotion and experience so he can have a connection and relate with others. This is what creates potential for character development.

This is also extended to factions.
The Cardassians want to be a powerful, respected race but they were forced to bend the knee, and this has tarnished their self-image.
The Bajorans want to be important and independent but depend on the federation because their superstitions have enormous power in their culture.
Vulcans are members of the federation, but appear to be less numerous than humans, and their relationship with the romulans tests their sense of superiority. They are supposed to be rational, and unfeeling but really they're just covering up their emotions that can burst out.
Romulans want to be the superior conniving race in the galaxy, but they are also constricted by their own societal structures.
Klingons are warriors that end up causing massive amounts of destruction to their own people and power by being such.
The Federation causes problems for themselves by sticking to their principles, and when they don't they look like enormous hypocrites.
Ferengi obviously are inherently self-contradicting with their economic based religion.
The Dominion are afraid of everyone destroying them, so they want to destroy everyone.
Other species of aliens represent cultural differences and priorities within different human cultures/historical civilizations.

The show should not be flippant about anything even if the showrunners disagree with the concept behind the rationale of the villains or monsters of the week. (Cardassians are written well for example because of how much objective consideration is given in regards to their rationale over the course of Deep Space Nine)
It's okay to be cheesy, or have an ending where everyone is laughing and back to normal, because sweetness is intrinsic to the fantasy.

Is it really that hard to make "Twilight Zone + Horatio Hornblower" in space?

 

[Absolutego]

@glib that's a great analysis and all, but the people currently writing the show a) don't have the attention span to process half of what you posted, and b) aren't intelligent/organized enough to think of the show on that high of a level, instead of just shitting out whatever they think might deliver ratings.

 

[khaine]

That's what pissed me off so much about Into Darkness. You set up the cast, and they you just do a shittier remake of the best Star Trek film. It would have been far better, to do a story like this:

Start it off with the Klingons fighting the Romulans because of Nero's attacks. In the endthey agree a peace, where the romulans will give the Klingon's clocking devices, and they will unite against the federation, blaming the federation for causing Nero to happen.

The Enterprise Officers go to a briefing which summarises Star Fleet Intelligence's indications of an alliance and sharing of technology, reporting on lost ships in the area. Have the enterprise ordered to the neutral zone to patrol.

Do a remake of balance of terror in the middle, after destroying the bird of prey have the enterprise investigate the asteroid it was heading to. They sneak around, and find a massive Klingon and Romulan attack fleet hiding in a hidden base inside an asteroid (aka a port). They send a message to Star Fleet, but realise it will take them too long to get here. They decide to attack, destroying many of the ships. The enterprise is crippled, the staff abandon the ship, and in the last act Kirk destroys the enterprise in a way that prevents the ships from leaving the asteroid.

Kirk, Bones, and Spock are sent back to Romulus to stand trial, as they are leaving the asteroid a star fleet armada arrives. On the journey to Romulus, Kirk and Co manage to distract and overpower the guards. They dress as romulans, with McCoy doing some work to make them look like romulans.

They get to Romulus and see some of the lost ships in dry dock, with star fleet officers being forced to load provisions and weapons into roman ships. They devise a plan, to rescue the prisoners steal back one of the ships, and a cloaking device and flee. They come back to a hero's welcome.

Its basically a remake of the 50s Hornblower film. Would have been so much better than the drivel they came up with, and aligns with some of the TOS episodes.

 

[Quantum Diabetes]

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>Y-you want to go where Old Trek has gone before?
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Brent Spiner looks like his jowls flap when there’s a strong wind

 

[Evil Peter Griffin]

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Was this crossover only made so they could make that joke?

 

[Captain Syrup]

Brent Spiner looks like his jowls flap when there’s a strong wind

This is every cliché about once-great bands, wearily performing solos with the guitar resting on their gut.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

It's not that hard to make a Trek show. Star Trek became a monster IP, but we've had good (or at least entertaining) scifi shows after and even before TOS: Lost in Space, Land of Giants, Quantum Leap, Alien Nation, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, and many more. All follow the same concept and structure that @glib mentions. If Trek fails nowadays is because modern writers put the message before the adventure: the important part is to promote a narrative. Old writers understood that the only way to attract people to watch your show is to make good stories and put the message within the story. They either don't know how to do it or they don't care.

Anyway, I found out through Computing Forever that S3 actually has a TEASER promo thingy... I thought it was just mentioned, but no. There is an actual teaser. This is pathetic. And very sad. You know how you know ST is dead? Because they've become the Futurama episode when the cast of TOS is forced to play their characters one and again to please some nerd alien writing lame fan fiction.

 

[Brain Problems]

It's not that hard to make a Trek show. Star Trek became a monster IP, but we've had good (or at least entertaining) scifi shows after and even before TOS: Lost in Space, Land of Giants, Quantum Leap, Alien Nation, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, and many more. All follow the same concept and structure that @glib mentions. If Trek fails nowadays is because modern writers put the message before the adventure: the important part is to promote a narrative. Old writers understood that the only way to attract people to watch your show is to make good stories and put the message within the story. They either don't know how to do it or they don't care.

Anyway, I found out through Computing Forever that S3 actually has a TEASER promo thingy... I thought it was just mentioned, but no. There is an actual teaser. This is pathetic. And very sad. You know how you know ST is dead? Because they've become the Futurama episode when the cast of TOS is forced to play their characters one and again to please some nerd alien writing lame fan fiction.

I still maintain that the over-serialisation of the show is the primary culprit with the hamfisted messaging and fucking terrible writing all forming together like some shitty Voltron.

If they were able to just put down their piece of shit overarching narrative that no one cares about (not even the writers, obviously) and do some unlinked adventures we'd all be better off for it. A good example of this outside of Trek is how X-Files handled it with the majority of episodes being Monster of the Week's with the seasons usually book-ended by mythos episodes and a few direct and indirect ones sprinkled throughout.

 

[DavidS877]

I still maintain that the over-serialisation of the show is the primary culprit with the hamfisted messaging and fucking terrible writing all forming together like some shitty Voltron.

If they were able to just put down their piece of shit overarching narrative that no one cares about (not even the writers, obviously) and do some unlinked adventures we'd all be better off for it. A good example of this outside of Trek is how X-Files handled it with the majority of episodes being Monster of the Week's with the seasons usually book-ended by mythos episodes and a few direct and indirect ones sprinkled throughout.

I think to some extent this is a problem with super short seasons. Although checking, Picard is scheduled for 16 which means there should be time to let the narrative breathe and not have to GO GO GO. Discovery has an entire bridge full of people whose names we barely know. For all the previous shows if we knew someone by name in more than one episode then we would probably know a bunch more about them. For Discovery it's "The Blonde Chick" "The Black Chick" "The Chick with Implants" "Asian Guy" "Black Guy" "Token Alien" yet they all have names and appear in almost every episode.

 

[White Devil]

I think to some extent this is a problem with super short seasons. Although checking, Picard is scheduled for 16 which means there should be time to let the narrative breathe and not have to GO GO GO. Discovery has an entire bridge full of people whose names we barely know. For all the previous shows if we knew someone by name in more than one episode then we would probably know a bunch more about them. For Discovery it's "The Blonde Chick" "The Black Chick" "The Chick with Implants" "Asian Guy" "Black Guy" "Token Alien" yet they all have names and appear in almost every episode.

That's what happens when you have no characterization.

 

[AnOminous]

That's what happens when you have no characterization.

But she's *B*lack with a capital B! What else do you need?