War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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Yes it is, its a western nation and we need to pretect it.
By that logic, Ukraine counts, as well. Kiev has been a Western city for over 1000 years.

Mariupol looks pretty unharmed if you dont only cosume cnn...
Many other news sources say otherwise:

even a totaly depleted russian army has enough old ammo to blow up half the world, even badly stored ww2 ammo will work fine if dr
Old ammo isn't good enough in a modern war where crossfires can annihilate infantry and drones can blow tanks to bits.
 
Christ, we've discovered the secret German military technique passed down for generations: throw out such patently stupid nonsense under the guise of strategy your opponents kill themselves to prevent the stupid from infecting them.

Clearly, German military science is the greatest!
 
They were launching cruise missiles into the mainland from it, no?
Probably, but almost all of their remaining ships can mount similar missiles, if in smaller numbers.

Also does this degrade Russian AA in the region significantly?
I'd argue yes. The Slavas and the Kirovs are the only ships that mount the navalized version of the S-300 long range SAM. The remaining ships in the Black Sea fleet are armed with short range SAMs.

Could we see the remaining Russian warships being much more vulnerable?
Again I'd argue yes, especially if the UK carries through on it's promise to equip ukraine with AShMs, doubly so if the reports are correct that we're trying to find a way to give them Harpoons. At the very least this is going to (or should if the Russkies weren't retarded) force a serious operational change in how the rest of their fleet operates.


Probably not much in terms of AA, although the new gap in their sensor coverage doesn't help; but it's not like an equivalent to Aegis. The thing was designed to launch cruise missiles, not so much for networked air/sea defense & cover. But if their systems & escorts couldn't handle even a fairly simple diversion & attack, well...
I disagree, while it's true the Russians don't rely on networked air defenses the way we do, the loss of the ship is a blow in and of itself. Going from a theoretical engagement envelope of up to 90km with S-300s, to ~30km with the Osa and Buk derivatives they have left is a significant weakness, especially if as I mentioned above, the UK really does give the Ukrainians Harpoons and a way to launch them.
 
What is the aftermath of the russians getting another black eye? They were launching cruise missiles into the mainland from it, no? Also does this degrade Russian AA in the region significantly? Could we see the remaining Russian warships being much more vulnerable?
Apparently a lot in terms of AA, according to this tweet, might be true might be not. I'm kind of 50/50 on the veracity of this claim
 
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Apparently a lot in terms of AA, according to this tweet, might be true might be not. I'm kind of 50/50 on the veracity of this claim
He stole that "DM" from a post from me off of /k/, and I was exaggerating. It's certainly a painful loss of AA capability for the black sea fleet and for holding the Kherson bridgehead, as the Moskva could sail within 20 nautical miles of the coast and cover quite a bit of territory and intercept planes coming in from the Odessa area. S-400's cover a good chunk of the gap, but those are likely mostly still in Crimea and aren't being moved up any time soon, as they're too valuable to risk the abandooner.
 
By that logic, Ukraine counts, as well. Kiev has been a Western city for over 1000 years.
no, but the west shoudl intervene if the russians are about to anbex lemberg.

Old ammo isn't good enough in a modern war where crossfires can annihilate infantry and drones can blow tanks to bits.
you have a whole lot of other problems if your artillery has to use small arms...

Many other news sources say otherwise:
even on CNN town doesnt looks so bad, the fire is focused on Azov strongpoints like the steelworks....
 
It's also a ship the Russians will never be able to replace, all their major surface combatants are Soviet relics that were built in fucking Ukraine and all they've been able to put to sea since the fall of the USSR are minor Euro country-tier frigates. They're going to be reduced to buying Chinese if they ever want to have a big boy surface fleet again but frankly the last century should have convinced the Russians to give up on their delusions of blue water relevance.
 
All the ammo in the world is no use if there's nobody left to shoot it.
thats not a problem. the real problem for russia are all the good assets lost to retarded shit, like using their flag ship without screens or losing fighters at CAS duties.

Shells and "stupid" rockets are no problem for Russia, losing a couple of ships and modern aircraft on the other hand is.
 
Since you're seemingly Russian maybe you can help me understand more. What the fuck is up with the paranoia? Russian leaders act like paranoid schizophrenics and I don't understand it at all. They'll say that China is a huge threat to them but then turn the whole world against them because they don't feel secure unless they control the policy decisions of like 300 million people to the west of them. Shit makes no sense at all from a realistic perspective. If they're worried about China why not team up with the west to destroy that shit. Hell, Russia seems pretty well poised to take over for China as the worlds factory. Might not be as cheap but it surely would help the people. It makes no sense to me unless you assume Russian leadership is actually full of paranoid schizos.
I've yet to meet anyone who regards China as a reliable ally, let alone kindred nation - no one here identifies as Asian. China is a very real threat, but for some reason Russians have a hate boner for the West. I reckon it's consequence of lingering propaganda from the Cold War era and an additional layer of bullshit from Putin's own factory of lies. That's why it's crucial that boomers die out if Russia is to have any chance for a better future.
It's that and probably envy. USSR sprouted through Dekulakization (among other things), which is where unwashed masses robbed, killed and raped their more successful neighbors. No one really envies China, but USA/EU is a different story.

If Russia's decision appears schizophrenic to you, just look at their coat of arms and it would all make sense.
 
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I've yet to meet anyone who regards China as a reliable ally, let alone kindred nation - no one here identifies as Asian. China is a very real threat, but for some reason Russians have a hate boner for the West. I reckon it's consequence of lingering propaganda from the Cold War era and an additional layer of bullshit from Putin's won factory of lies. That's why it's crucial that boomers die out if Russia is to have any chance for a better future.
It's that and probably envy. USSR sprouted through Dekulakization (among other things), which is where unwashed masses robbed, killed and raped their more successful neighbors. No one really envies China, but USA/EU is a different story.

If Russia's decision appears schizophrenic to you, just look at their coat of arms and it would all make sense.
Thanks for answering. I really wish Russia would stop being psychotic. I actually like alot of their shit even if I find it fun to shitpost about Russians and Slavs in general. It would be nice to live in a world where you could go on a tour of the Aleutians all the way to Russia without some kind of hullabaloo. Like some Russaboos have said the average redneck American has alot in common with the average Russian. The problem is that the average Russian seems to have some weird suicidal grudge which nothing short of nuclear genocide will solve. Obviously not all Rednecks are nice little cherubim but in my experience the average westerner doesn't hate people just because they are citizens of a country that is technically an "enemy". Most westerners view people and their governments as separate entities.

The entire shitshow with Russia just makes me sad. It could have been a huge tech and manufacturing hub with ample employment for people to grow families. Russians may not be surgical with their programming but they sure are quick on the uptake and really smart about it. Instead their leaders seem intent on turning them into a backwater again and again while culling anyone who would dare give them a chance. When I was a kid I knew a few adopted kids from Russia and they were some of the smartest and kindest people I knew who went out of their way to help people. I doubt that's entirely because their adoptive family, there is good to be found in the Russian but it is sadly smothered too often (:_(
 
China is a very real threat, but for some reason Russians have a hate boner for the West.
china is very very far away from the important parts of russia. the closest part of china is still over 3000 kilometers from moscow. the parts of russia that china threatens are so remote, they're almost like distant overseas colonies.
meanwhile the west is in estonia, which is almost within artillery range of st petersburg itself. combine that with the paranoid "world is against us" mindset instilled by the soviet communist worldview (every capitalist government is inherently oppressive and evil and wants to destroy our glorious ussr!) and it's no surprise that moscow elites seethe at the west while not giving a fuck about china.
 
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Russian soldiers who refuse to participate in "Special Military Operation" are now supposedly getting stamps in their papers that say something along the lines of "Likely to commit treason, fraud and lie - Did not want to participate in the special military operation in LPR, DPR and Ukraine"
FQOARA2XMAMie2D.jpg
Source - Ivan Zhdanov on Twitter
 
Russian soldiers who refuse to participate in "Special Military Operation" are now supposedly getting stamps in their papers that say something along the lines of "Likely to commit treason, fraud and lie - Did not want to participate in the special military operation in LPR, DPR and Ukraine"
View attachment 3177863
Source - Ivan Zhdanov on Twitter
Weren't some National Guards in court? They refused to cross the border as they had no passports. Their lawyer is very carefully framing the case as a violation of employment laws, perhaps military regs too, but it seems to be a civil court, not military and these dismissed soldiers and officers aren't on trial as such.

china is very very far away from the important parts of russia. the closest part of china is still over 3000 kilometers from moscow. the parts of russia that china threatens are so remote, they're almost like distant overseas colonies.
meanwhile the west is in estonia, which is almost within artillery range of st petersburg itself. combine that with the paranoid "world is against us" mindset instilled by the soviet communist worldview (every capitalist government is inherently oppressive and evil and wants to destroy our glorious ussr!) and it's no surprise that moscow elites seethe at the west while not giving a fuck about china.

Siberia is resource rich. While Tatarstan has the oil, resources like gold, dug up at a rate of c 200 tons per year is nearly all in Siberia. The people of Moscow and St Peterburg are important, the natural resources are surely of interest to the Changs, as a portion of it was once Chinese. PRC has a long historical memory. Putin and his courtiers also would rate it as important. Yachts from Germany and Italy aren't free.
 
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Russians are claiming they’re tugging the Moskva back to “a port on the Black Sea” and she’s stopped exploding and they’ve put out the fire. Considering the track record of Russian MoD claims regarding their ships, I doubt that.
 
Siberia is resource rich. While Tatarstan has the oil, resources like gold, dug up at a rate of c 200 tons per year is nearly all in Siberia. The people of Moscow and St Peterburg are important, the natural resources are surely of interest to the Changs, as a portion of it was once Chinese. PRC has a long historical memory. Putin and his courtiers also would rate it as important. Yachts from Germany and Italy aren't free.
it is important to the russian eceonomy yes, but "they might potentially take over some of our oil fields" is a very different level of importance than "they are in a position from where their armies can reach our second largest city within just a couple of hours"
 
Russians are claiming they’re tugging the Moskva back to “a port on the Black Sea” and she’s stopped exploding and they’ve put out the fire. Considering the track record of Russian MoD claims regarding their ships, I doubt that.
I really hope that UH-60 that was spotted in the black sea or that Turk drone involved got some good debooking footage.
 
Russians are claiming they’re tugging the Moskva back to “a port on the Black Sea” and she’s stopped exploding and they’ve put out the fire. Considering the track record of Russian MoD claims regarding their ships, I doubt that.
I work with my old fart of an uncle, he's glued to the TV all day in a separate room. He walked up to tell us that "it didn't sink!" and that those mean "Ukrainian terrorists" attacked our "peaceful ship".
I sat with my back toward him, grinning and taking in the cope with every pore of my body

Even if it didn't sink, it must be seriously damaged, so it's out of commission for sure. Doesn't make the very fact that it was hit any less embarrassing for Russia.
 
Russians are claiming they’re tugging the Moskva back to “a port on the Black Sea” and she’s stopped exploding and they’ve put out the fire. Considering the track record of Russian MoD claims regarding their ships, I doubt that.
Strange, weren't their own MoD and/or Telegram shills already announced the ship sunk or capsized?
 
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