War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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What a shame. Hopefully is has a huge hole torn into it and the CIC as well as the secondary fire control systems are inoperable. I have a feeling if some of its tubes are intact they'll beach her and send the rest of her inventory out in a vengeance salvo.
I've also been poking around naval trackers and there's a few candidates for where she is right now.

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Red is a collection of navigational beacons and tugs. Totally possible it's the Moskva. Blue and green are 'Tugs & Special Craft' - which I'd guess a warship might be, and only identifiable by satpasses.
 
RF buses and subways starting to sport ads with "short-term" military contracts, so any vatnik can get their murder-boner on

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Meanwhile a lot of equipment is coming out of long term storage to equip new ranks is in bad shape, cloth of the plate carriers is totally rotted out (most likely cotton based), plates are badly rusted which indicates excessive moisture during storage.

Train shipping manifest indicates items pulled out of storage and being shipped. On paper, the items are spelled out and counted, but item condition is not noted, simply that they are present. Some plate carriers have been crudely patched with needle and thread (most likely when taken into storage)

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RF buses and subways starting to sport ads with "short-term" military contracts, so any vatnik can get their murder-boner on

View attachment 3178277

Meanwhile a lot of equipment is coming out of long term storage to equip new ranks is in bad shape, cloth of the plate carriers is totally rotted out (most likely cotton based), plates are badly rusted which indicates excessive moisture during storage.

Train shipping manifest indicates items pulled out of storage and being shipped. On paper, the items are spelled out and counted, but item condition is not noted, simply that they are present. Some plate carriers have been crudely patched with needle and thread (most likely when taken into storage)

View attachment 3178283View attachment 3178285
View attachment 3178290View attachment 3178291View attachment 3178292
Is that rust on the fabric? Do they expect the metal plates to be even better at stopping bullets and shrapnel while rusty?

That armor is worthless.
 
RF buses and subways starting to sport ads with "short-term" military contracts, so any vatnik can get their murder-boner on

View attachment 3178277

Meanwhile a lot of equipment is coming out of long term storage to equip new ranks is in bad shape, cloth of the plate carriers is totally rotted out (most likely cotton based), plates are badly rusted which indicates excessive moisture during storage.

Train shipping manifest indicates items pulled out of storage and being shipped. On paper, the items are spelled out and counted, but item condition is not noted, simply that they are present. Some plate carriers have been crudely patched with needle and thread (most likely when taken into storage)

View attachment 3178283View attachment 3178285
View attachment 3178290View attachment 3178291View attachment 3178292
All that magical ww2 heavy weapons ammo is almost certainly in the same state, assuming it wasn't all sold for some african war 30 years ago.
 
Is that rust on the fabric? Do they expect the metal plates to be even better at stopping bullets and shrapnel while rusty?

That armor is worthless.

Those plates look like plain jane steel, no spalling coating. I'd be worried about 30 pounds of bouncing steel being held together by fabric that was already ripped and quickly patched before going into storage. As a milsurp connoisseur and a collector, I have no faith in those plate carriers carry a bottle of water. The cloth is so rotted it's coming out at the seams, so not even a craftiest can patch those back.

This goes back to general state of things in the army. You got warehouse full of equipment on paper, but in reality it's all falling apart and useless. How prevalent this is, I don't know, but obviously there is a need to pull this trash out of long term "storage" because you don't have enough to equip troops with local stores on bases, which means those are depleted or have similar condition issues.

Again, on paper, it's a plate carrier with set of plates, ready to be issued. In reality it's this:

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Is that rust on the fabric? Do they expect the metal plates to be even better at stopping bullets and shrapnel while rusty?

That armor is worthless.
a rusty iron plate will still stop a lot more bullets than no plate
honestly i doubt a bit of rust makes armor plating significantly worse in practice. i think that the bigger damage will be on the soldiers morale, because walking around in half rotten gear with rust everywhere doesn't exactly inspire trust in your armys leadership and organisation quality.
 
a rusty iron plate will still stop a lot more bullets than no plate
honestly i doubt a bit of rust makes armor plating significantly worse in practice. i think that the bigger damage will be on the soldiers morale, because walking around in half rotten gear with rust everywhere doesn't exactly inspire trust in your armys leadership and organisation quality.
Not if it isn't in the carrier because it's decayed. Not if it doesn't stay in the right place. Stopping bullets is one thing, but steel plates done really do a lot at dissipating energy, either. It's not great for keeping a soldier in fighting condition, just more alive.
 
Stopping bullets is one thing, but steel plates done really do a lot at dissipating energy, either. It's not great for keeping a soldier in fighting condition, just more alive.
i know that armor doesnt magically deflect bullets. but still: without it a bullet to the chest will puncture your lung which usually kills you, with armor you might get away with just some fractured ribs instead.
i guess you can be hyper cynical and argue that WIA versus KIA doesn't make a difference because both have the same immediate result (you stop fighting) but in the mid to long term the difference between a soldier spending months in a hospital versus a soldier lying in a grave is gigantic.
 
i know that armor doesnt magically deflect bullets. but still: without it a bullet to the chest will puncture your lung which usually kills you, with armor you might get away with just some fractured ribs instead.
i guess you can be hyper cynical and argue that WIA versus KIA doesn't make a difference because both have the same immediate result (you stop fighting) but in the mid to long term the difference between a soldier spending months in a hospital versus a soldier lying in a grave is gigantic.
WIA and KIA are a huge difference, a wounded soldier is a liability. In purely objective terms, a dead soldier is replaceable, which is bad, but a wounded one still ties up food and water like an able bodied one, but also ties up other valuable resources like medical care, pay, and space. Russia already can't feed its army very well and can't seem to equip it, either. They also can't even take control of the skies against another country with a third rate military. Every piece of this is succor to Ukraine and makes them fight even more bravely, and add to that they now have had pretty much the full spigot of Lend-Lease turned on, which was the only thing that kept Russia in WWII where they should have been wiped out fairly early on.
 
WIA and KIA are a huge difference, a wounded soldier is a liability. In purely objective terms, a dead soldier is replaceable, which is bad, but a wounded one still ties up food and water like an able bodied one, but also ties up other valuable resources like medical care, pay, and space.
this short term thinking is missing the big picture.
in the medium term a WIA can recover, while a KIA stays dead forever, and russia does not have the available manpower reserves to just replace KIAs in the field like it's no big deal.
in the long term it's even worse. the russian demographic situation was already a disaster before the war, the country can not afford turning what little young people it has into war dead, the long term consequences of this will be an absolute catastrophe.
 
Russians are claiming they’re tugging the Moskva back to “a port on the Black Sea” and she’s stopped exploding and they’ve put out the fire. Considering the track record of Russian MoD claims regarding their ships, I doubt that.
I’ve seen some other reports that she rolled over onto her Port side and sunk. With a remarkably small number of crew “evacuated” in the rough seas.
 
this short term thinking is missing the big picture.
in the medium term a WIA can recover, while a KIA stays dead forever, and russia does not have the available manpower reserves to just replace KIAs in the field like it's no big deal.
in the long term it's even worse. the russian demographic situation was already a disaster before the war, the country can not afford turning what little young people it has into war dead, the long term consequences of this will be an absolute catastrophe.
Russia uses barely trained conscripts. It's far cheaper and simpler to replace them.

Russia's entire theory of war for over a century is throwing huge amounts of peasants at the enemy.
 
Pentagon updates. Fire is described as 'Extensive'. Ship is possibly still burning. Supposedly moving east. There's a lot of cloud cover so satellite images aren't helping.

Would love to see the Ukr. get a firing solution on it again and hit it a couple more times.

Fuck the Russian military and everyone to do with it.
 
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Russian sources don't mention any victims, there are ought to be some
There’s no way there aren’t any. Plus this was the Black Fleet Flagship. It flew the Admiral’s flag. So the Uke’s might have added one or two Admiral’s to their score card. Alongside the 7 Generals. If nothing else this war seems a remarkably efficient way of clearing out the upper tiers of the Russian Military. Leaving room at the top for fresh blood. (Do please try not to slip on all the flesh blood splattered about)
 
Would love to see the Ukr. get a firing solution on it again and hit it a couple more times.

Fuck the Russian military and everyone to do with it.
I really, really hope it was a strike with Neptunes like they're claiming. That's an even bigger "fuck you" than attacking targets inside Russia. Hi, we created this missile because you annexed Crimea. Have a taste yest! Oh, did we blow up the most important Russian ship in the entire Black Sea? Oopsy!
 
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Russia says Ukrainian helicopters carried out strikes on its territory: https://www.rt.com/russia/553872-ukrainian-helicopters-attack-russia/

The second Chechen war was launched by a very dubious false flag like incident, so the FSB have form.

The Ukranians also dabbed on the Russians by parroting back the same words they used when they invaded Crimea.


a rusty iron plate will still stop a lot more bullets than no plate
honestly i doubt a bit of rust makes armor plating significantly worse in practice. i think that the bigger damage will be on the soldiers morale, because walking around in half rotten gear with rust everywhere doesn't exactly inspire trust in your armys leadership and organisation quality.

it still means its been leaked on, exposed to the air, and is decaying, which is not exactly ideal. Some of its surface rust, but theres also the possibility its a lot more extensive, as these things have probably been in a warehouse since Brezhnev. Most of the better stuff was probably sold to random western larpers back in the early 2000s.
 
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