Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

[Simpadoo]

I think this marks the turning point of the thread.
We are now at the point where we're seriously arguing about whether or not losing a warship matters in a war.

Depends n the war.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

yep, treating an old cruiser that was more of a white elephant than a help as a icon was just a giant self own by Moscow. Ukraine finally avenged the Mriya, but at least that plane made some money.
The russian navy practically is just a bunch of frigates and submarines that actually are more of a PIA to enemies than to taxpayers, they should scrap the Kuznetsov too imho... as much as it was a nice ship on paper.

RUSSIAN SEAMEN UPDATE

Their subs actually work, and they have a lot of them in case Ivan does something retarded.

Kuznetsov seems like a complete waste of resources, idk why they think continuing to pour money into a single, 40 years old, STOBAR carrier that never worked well in the first place is a good use of their budget.

Their guided missile cruisers and destroyers are all old Cold War stock from the 80's. Only so much you can do to keep those things running, refits aren't magic. Kinda seems like Russia is holding on to them out of pride more than anything else.

They have a good number of modern frigates that only date back to 2014 on, and some of them are active in the Black Sea. They're about a third of the size of Moskva so don't carry the same punch but here's the armament the Moskva carried:

• 16 × P-500 Bazalt or P-1000 Vulkan anti-ship missiles
• 8 × 8 (64) S-300F Fort (SA-N-6 Grumble) long-range surface-to-air missiles
• 2 × 20 (40) OSA-MA (SA-N-4 Gecko) SR SAM
• 1 × twin AK-130 130mm/L70 dual purpose guns
• 6 × AK-630 close-in weapons systems
• 2 × RBU-6000 anti-submarine mortars
• 10 × (2 quin) 533mm torpedo tubes

And here's what the Admiral Essen (2014) carries:

• 1 × 100 mm A-190 Arsenal naval gun
• 8 (2 × 4) UKSK VLS cells for Kalibr, Oniks or Zircon anti-ship/cruise missiles[5]
• 24 (2 × 12) 3S90M VLS cells for 9M317M surface-to-air-missiles
• 2 × AK-630 CIWS
• 8 × Igla-S or Verba
• 2 × double 533 mm torpedo tubes
• 1 × RBU-6000 rocket launcher

Most of these weapons aren't necessarily relevant to any amphibious assault - SAM is nice to have, but they should have air cover anyway (Crimea has an airbase). Anti ship missiles, torpedoes and anti-submarine weapons are irrelevant in the Black Sea right now unless you're Ukrainian.

That pretty much leaves the guns and cannons as tools Russia would actually need to cover marines storming the beaches.

The twin AK-130 now at the bottom of the Black Sea would have been useful supporting naval infantry:


The Admiral Essen has a smaller, but still effective 100mm (4 inch) cannon that can do a number on coastal defenses

It also has 8 VLS cells for cruise missiles, unlike Moskva.

Admiral Makarov has the same capabilities and is in the Black Sea. Ladnyy is an old Soviet frigate but it has a couple of 76.2mm guns that wouldn't be useless supporting a contested landing. Pytlivyy is another early 80's model that's currently under maintenance or something, but if they got that back into the fight it'd bring a couple of 100mm cannons to bear.

So idk, Moskva is an embarrassing loss for Russia, but if they're dumb enough to still want to try forcing landings against a hostile city, I guess that's still an option.

It's been fun Navy sperging with ya, mateys!

 

[UVB-76]

You act like the Russian victory conditions are losing no men and equipment.

Losing equipment makes every victory more of a slog.

As for sniping generals the Ukrainians claimed to have killed a general a few weeks back and then he was posing for photos, clearly alive shortly thereafter.

Great, out of 6 or 7 claimed dead, one was actually alive. Big ups on Russia for necromancing one because it allowed you to dodge the point being made.

I like how Ukibross quickly swept the surrender of 1000 Ukrainian soldiers under the rug

Only what, 299,000 to go?

declared a shameful defeat of Russia, and started smugly dilating without posting anything of significance.

This was vastly more significant than never ending footage of Chechens magdumping into buildings, but go off king.

 

[draggs]

It seemed to me that pro-war Europeans and Americans were happy that this proxy war requires only military equipment worth million instead of fighters. So which is it soldiers or equipment?

Like Boromir said, valor first requires strength, then a weapon

 

[Frisk]

Baka
View attachment 3179841

Yoi! Yoi!

Spoiler: But can she top this?

 

[White_N]

It seems that Russian aviation has decided to avenge the disgrace of the fleet.

Fire from an explosion in Kharkiv

After a powerful explosion in the video in partы of Kiev, the light disappeared

Kiev, another explosion.

In Kiev now everything is like this

 

[76LD910]

Ukraine cannot just pull their troops out of Kiev and send them elsewhere because the Russian army is just encamped on the other side of the border and easily able to lurch across once again in an offensive, so their goal of tying down reinforcements is still active.

The Russians still have significant troops across the border ?

1: Do you have numbers ?
2: If the mere presence of troops across the border accomplishes the supposed goal why did they seem to commit so fully and take so much damage ?

Kiev didn't fold up so no point in keeping troops in contact for an outcome that will never be on the table.

3: If there are fresh troops to the north ..... why aren't they the ones being sent to the east instead ?
4: If the purpose of them being there was to tie up Ukrainian troops and put pressure on the Ukrainian government why did they pull out at all if that manpower wasn't needed ?

 

[White_N]

Only what, 299,000 to go?

You seem reasonable. Just remember this number when Russian losses are brought up again to compare.

This was vastly more significant than never ending footage of Chechens magdumping into buildings, but go off king.

Hey, chechens are fun. Don't be mad. I liked the information about the ship, but then actual information ended and opinions started.

 

[make_it_so]

Why are so many of you emotionally invested in this?

Beyond the fact , as @Fougaro said, that this conflict has a risk of escalating into Mushrooms popping up...
People are projecting their own personal political and cultural opinions/views onto the two combatants, even if the actual facts on the ground don't support this.

 

[UVB-76]

This armchair general is ready to throw away 1000 soldiers and doesn't see any significance in it. God have mercy on the man under your command.

First, I'm not gonna even entertain your concern-trolling for a thousand men fighting for the Azov battalion.
Second, the Ukrainian president himself has received threats from these people. Suddenly we care?
Third, there were attempted rescues which failed.
There's absolutely nothing left to do except surrender or fight to the death.
Meanwhile, the real admirals in the Russian Navy are willing to throw away billions of Rubles right into the bottom of the sea. God have mercy on the Russian taxpayer.

The feint was to get Ukraine to commit troops to the defense of Kiev so they wouldn't be able to use them to help in the defense of the Donbas and Mariupol. I don't really think that is hard to understand.

Which is fucking bullshit. The fighting capabilities in the Southeast would not hindered considering most of the forces in Kiev were territorial defense units. They'd stay around Kiev anyway and aren't easily moved across the country to fight in the East.
This wouldn't be hard to understand, but some fucking brainlet who doesn't know shit about fuck convinced you that war is a videogame and if Ukraine turned a dial to 0 in "Kiev Defense" to make number go up in "Donbass/Mariupol Defense", they'd be bamboozled as Kiev would be defenseless. However, that's not how real life works. The troops fighting around the Kiev suburbs wouldn't be relevant towards what was happening simultaneously in the Southeast.

 

[kuuu]

It seems that Russian aviation has decided to avenge the disgrace of the fleet.

Fire from an explosion in Kharkiv
View attachment 3179990
After a powerful explosion in the video in partы of Kiev, the light disappeared
View attachment 3179999
Kiev, another explosion.
View attachment 3180004
In Kiev now everything is like this
View attachment 3180007

Might as well point out that Russian forces have been bombing anywhere but in Kiev. It was left alone as a gesture of goodwill in Turkey.
Till tonight.

 

[UVB-76]

As for the feint, it was largely successful and remains so. Ukraine cannot just pull their troops out of Kiev and send them elsewhere because the Russian army is just encamped on the other side of the border and easily able to lurch across once again in an offensive, so their goal of tying down reinforcements is still active.

Except that war isn't a videogame. The troops around Kiev would not have been sent elsewhere.
Your belief in the feint hinges on not understanding that those troops would not go anywhere.

What the fuck are you even talking about? I said the feint was to keep them in Kiev

You can repeat this as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true that those troops were "kept" in Kiev. They would have to stay there regardless.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Could be a big happening, depending on the meaning of "anti-tank weapons" with most extreme being Ukraine receiving NLOS fire and forget anti-tank/anti-helicopter missiles that fit on the back of a Toyota and have range that rivals some artillery.

Could just be more Panzerfaust 3s or some L-MATs(Javelin equivalents).

Could be fake.

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1514476775019106307

View attachment 3178983

Edit, it's real:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/world/asia/japan-military-russia-ukraine.html

China takes note.

Do you think the books written about this war will be as good as Bloodlands?

Wait 20 years. Also I'm not that interested in Bloodlands as it won't provide any new and revealing information, just the author's take on historical events and personages. I'm big on knowing history and coming to your own conclusions. That is what a good university education is supposed to do; teach you how to gather and rate information presented to you so you can make your own critical analysis, not merely regurgitate someone's else's views.

Each day, I'm thinking this could not get more embarrassing for Russia, and each day I'm wrong

Each day I wonder how many more Polacks will learn how to screw in a light bulb by themselves. As their compatriots come to visit from the UK after cleaning bathrooms, maybe they will teach rest of Poland. How to screw in a light bulb, that is. They need light to clean their toilets.

 

[White_N]

First, I'm not gonna even entertain your concern-trolling for a thousand men fighting for the Azov battalion.
Second, the Ukrainian president himself has received threats from these people. Suddenly we care?
Third, there were attempted rescues which failed.
There's absolutely nothing left to do except surrender or fight to the death.
Meanwhile, the real admirals in the Russian Navy are willing to throw away billions of Rubles right into the bottom of the sea. God have mercy on the Russian taxpayer.

You're confusing something, most of those who surrendered were ordinary Ukrainian Marines, I'd rather they were in captivity than in the grave.
But the president of Ukraine was personally threatened with murder by the commander of Azov in the case of the surrender of Donbass, and I think while the national battalions are holding weapons in their hands, I don't think there will be concessions.
I don't know about you, but I can separate different groups of people by their actions and the consequences of these actions.
Let ordinary Ukrainian soldiers return from the war in one piece, while battalions can go to hell.

 

[Simpadoo]

ngl, I'm more wanting to see the US lose than I am wanting to see Russia win.

When I see the same people moaning over Daddy dominating their life over the false Rona and then cumming over the Ukraine, it pretty much makes a strong case for Russia winning this special operation being a good thing for humanity.

 

[AGPinochet]

Smugposting about a Cruiser being sunk isn't going to un-liberate Donbass.

 

[Simpadoo]

Another point is how many of that 600,000 are combat capable troops and not for logistics and support and given their oil depots getting hit, probably not very mobile.

Not every man...View attachment 3179895

Yes, not the Negrater of Kiev, he bravely ran from combat.

 

[Simpadoo]

I find it fascinating how you've convinced yourself that the Ukrainian government and military is somehow going to fall apart now after the Russians threatened the capital for a month before pulling out and moving east.

Reminds me of how people were claiming Zelensky was working from a sound stage in Florida or Poland from the very beginning of this thread.



It sure seems to me like they intended to take the capital, and that they expected to take it without any fight.

I've yet to hear an explanation of what the supposed feint was supposed to accomplish since we've now seen a two week pause that would allow all the forces around Ukraine to .... you know .... do exactly what the supposed feint was intended to stop from doing in the first place.

This isn’t a CBS miniseries. Military maneuvers take a while.

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

More like "ahaha Ukrainians believe in the Ghost of Kevin" to "we didn't even want that warship anyway"

Eve Online levels of strategic posturing.

1: Do you have numbers ?

Parts of the 5th and 29th Combined Arms Armies. Supposedly those 2 Armies deployed 2.5 Rifle Brigades and an Artillery Brigade to Brest.

 

[MindYourSeabiscuits]

Which is fucking bullshit. The fighting capabilities in the Southeast would not hindered considering most of the forces in Kiev were territorial defense units. They'd stay around Kiev anyway and aren't easily moved across the country to fight in the East.
This wouldn't be hard to understand, but some fucking brainlet who doesn't know shit about fuck convinced you that war is a videogame and if Ukraine turned a dial to 0 in "Kiev Defense" to make number go up in "Donbass/Mariupol Defense", they'd be bamboozled as Kiev would be defenseless. However, that's not how real life works. The troops fighting around the Kiev suburbs wouldn't be relevant towards what was happening simultaneously in the Southeast.

You can repeat this as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true that those troops were "kept" in Kiev. They would have to stay there regardless.

Yeah getting the Ukrainians to think their capital was about to be stormed wouldn't distract them from the Donbas at all. Remember a few weeks ago when you faggots were saying there was going to be an imminent invasion of Odessa and the Russians were going to get fucked up? The invasion that never happened, that couldn't have been a ploy to distract the Ukrainians either.
Also you act like it's impossible that the territorial defense units could be deployed in battle when in 2014 the Ukrainians reorganized all of their territorial defense units into motorized infantry. Do you really not think if there had been no threat to Kiev, they wouldn't have deployed them elsewhere?