Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[The Emperor Skeksis]

I told him that it doesn't matter... People just won't stay if they keep getting hurt... and there might be a point where that includes me.

I think it's good that you straight up told him that, that's the truth he needs to hear.

So, a troon just got hired where I work. She is a lesbian FTM, and I do not think she is taking hormones yet as she does not have the pedostubble on her face, nor does she have the Kermit voice yet.

While I have no problem with her as she seems surface-level polite, my only question here is "why"? She is very obviously female as she is very skinny and it makes her hip to shoulder ratio proportions stand out, not to mention she has a very feminine voice and mannerisms and she always wears yoga pants. The only thing about her that does not come off as female is the fact that she obviously wears a binding bra underneath her shirt, but she just looks like a flat-chested woman.

I mean, because of how low-effort all of this is, why does she keep up the pretense of being "male" and go by male pronouns when it is very obvious she is a woman and acts like one? I am not sure what all the point of this is on her part and it seems like the equivalent of somebody insisting that 2+2=5.

It's about signalling that's she part of the woke 'in-group' and about controlling the language of others, and probably also about self-hatred. A lot of FTMs and non-binaries don't want to be women at any cost even though often they are the most feminine girly girls you've ever seen. It's very annoying, you might want to keep your distance if you can.

 

[toilet_rainbow]

I've had two friends, both lesbians, either come out as a trans man or get a referral to go to a gender clinic for T injections in the past week. It seems more and more like I'm the only lesbian that hasn't succumbed to this dangerous nonsense yet. I'm getting afraid that I will eventually troon out myself. Just that psychological paranoid feeling like am I the wrong one here. All but a couple of my old Tumblr and college friends have at least become enbies or use she/they. Both are severely depressed and self loathing. One went the lesbian -> bi -> straight -> gay (male) route. The other admits she's a gay woman, she just wants to look more "masculine." I'm not totally surprised that either trooned out but it hurts all the same.

I also found out that a childhood friend and a high school pal are now enbies. The hardcore they/them only and troon name sort. Found out both through Facebook.

 

[Hepativore]

I've had two friends, both lesbians, either come out as a trans man or get a referral to go to a gender clinic for T injections in the past week. It seems more and more like I'm the only lesbian that hasn't succumbed to this dangerous nonsense yet. I'm getting afraid that I will eventually troon out myself. Just that psychological paranoid feeling like am I the wrong one here. All but a couple of my old Tumblr and college friends have at least become enbies or use she/they. Both are severely depressed and self loathing. One went the lesbian -> bi -> straight -> gay (male) route. The other admits she's a gay woman, she just wants to look more "masculine." I'm not totally surprised that either trooned out but it hurts all the same.

I also found out that a childhood friend and a high school pal are now enbies. The hardcore they/them only and troon name sort. Found out both through Facebook.

I am not female, so I can only guess at this, but what is it going on that is causing this to happen at such a high rate among girls and women, particularly lesbian ones? Do your cohorts hate themselves for being women, or is their some sort of inferiority complex tied to being "female" in their minds?

For all of the shit that we give troons here on the farms, it is actually quite sad watching people that you knew do this and it is not fun watching your friends destroy themselves. If it were just some random stupid troon, it would be one thing, but it is depressing when it hits so close to home as then you cannot dismiss it as some random freak but are forced to face how warped trans culture is and how it is spreading so much.

Girls and women have it worse, I think, because the effects of HRT are much more permanent even if they stop taking testosterone as opposed to when males take estrogen as a lot of the side effects will often go away in the early stages in men when the HRT is stopped.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I am not female, so I can only guess at this, but what is it going on that is causing this to happen at such a high rate among girls and women, particularly lesbian ones? Do your cohorts hate themselves for being women, or is their some sort of inferiority complex tied to being "female" in their minds?

It's nearly always some form of anxiety disorder, either generalised, or as a result of body image problems (with porn addition being a common accompaniment, but not always). When experiencing this sort of generalised, unfocused anxiety, the mind tends to seek out a concrete thing to assign as the cause, which then turns into "if this thing is gone, I will be better". In times past it might have spilled out as anorexia, or less dangerously as a tendency to wear baggy clothes to hide their obviously hideous body.

It's the same for men, which is why so many are trooning in middle age, where the rates of male anxiety hit the roof for several years. It's also why so many trans kids are appearing in recent years; children are either confident little shits who do their own thing and can't be easily coerced into performative behaviours, or they're tangled up balls of authority-figure-appeasing anxiety who just want to be loved and given approval, so they'll say "I'm a girl!" if it gets them the attention they desire. The latter will act confident, in the way that only the anxiety-ridden truly can, in order to get more of the same attention. The reality is they're just brats who have found confidence to be provocative from the approval of their chosen authority figures.

 

[toilet_rainbow]

I am not female, so I can only guess at this, but what is it going on that is causing this to happen at such a high rate among girls and women, particularly lesbian ones? Do your cohorts hate themselves for being women, or is their some sort of inferiority complex tied to being "female" in their minds?

For all of the shit that we give troons here on the farms, it is actually quite sad watching people that you knew do this and it is not fun watching your friends destroy themselves. If it were just some random stupid troon, it would be one thing, but it is depressing when it hits so close to home as then you cannot dismiss it as some random freak but are forced to face how warped trans culture is and how it is spreading so much.

Girls and women have it worse, I think, because the effects of HRT are much more permanent even if they stop taking testosterone as opposed to when males take estrogen as a lot of the side effects will often go away in the early stages in men when the HRT is stopped.

I can say at least for the ones I mentioned that one is a caregiver for her very sick mother. Both are very depressed and have always had issues with identity. The one that just came out as a trans man has also constantly changed religions, including being a Jewish convert. (At least she actually practiced unlike fake Jew troons Marissa Davis and Lou Gags). The one that just got referred to the gender clinic thought she was an FTM at one point, but concluded that she would not want to live as a man. And yet, she wants male characteristics like a beard and "deeper" voice to be her "true" self. Forget that T in women results in pube beards and sounding like Bart Simpson (or a flaming effeminate faggot at best). If it changes her body even slightly into a mockery of a male, it's good enough.

It's maladaptive coping mechanisms full stop. Of course if you try to have someone tell them that their body is okay through therapy it's transphobic and you want to kill them. I have to be very careful what I say around even the more open minded ones that I still talk to, because the slightest thing will make them lose their shit. They would be horrified that I am typing this, let alone that I'm on KF, even if in this case I'm not mocking trans people. I'm just upset, and concerned.

I once read a comment on 4thwavenow where a woman's daughter was starting T against her wishes, and how she did not look forward to the day that she'll never hear her daughter's voice ever again. I am not anticipating that day happening. Again. And again. It really feels like the people I knew died even before their voices inevitably change. But I'm the transphobe for grieving the thought.

 

[Squirrel Nutkin]

A woman came to work for me who was obviously a very butch lesbian. I liked her! The job was way beneath her skills (she has a PhD although not in anything useful) but we really bonded during the pandemic and got a lot accomplished. After about a year went by, I noticed that she had become extremely short-tempered and just seemed so mad all the time. Like, smashing keyboards rage, crazy stuff. Previously I had been able to talk to her about work issues and she had pretty solid input, but during this time her all-purpose response became "fuck it." I could no longer rely on her good judgment about anything.

I guess you know where this is going. She had started on testosterone and it must have been a pretty heavy dose, and eventually she came out to the office as trans. It got to be kind of hard for me to be around her, first because I was living in terror of getting sued for using the wrong pronouns, but mostly because it was all very, very hard to watch. She eventually quit to - as she said - focus exclusively on her transition. And this is someone in her 30's, who really ought to be getting a move on career-wise (especially with all those loans!). The last I heard, she'd gone to work for a local "queer" organization, again a job way below her skills but I guess she feels like she has to totally lock in her identity and exist entirely in a queer environment.

I'm fine with laughing at the troon goons on this Board but this one feels bad.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

So apparently a guy I know who I would not exactly call great with people skills in general decided it would be in his best interests to get a little hands-on with one of his closest friends' romantic partner. He says the booze told him to, but all booze has told me to do is make a giant idiot of myself in public for the amusement of others. This friend and said partner have children, mind you, and the very euphemistic way it was discussed leads me to suspect it comes very, very close or even wandered in to the realm of straight-up assault. I bring that all up because some of us suspect he might take the Jenner approach, given some other signs in the entrails. Dude had a weird obsession with Chloe from Life is Strange (one of the most awfully-written and genuinely cringey attempts by a mid-40s frenchman to emulate dialogue amongst teenage americans I can think of), which is itself always a red flag; but then also several of those anime characters that troons latch to becoming more prominent.

Additionally there's the development of something else I've personally noticed in a few cases here and there: deteriorating social ability that rubs off more and more like the individual is talking and interacting more with their idea of the world than with what people are actually saying/doing. To me tends to be a sign that a person is spending so much time in their own head that they're working up the muscles to so thoroughly re-imagine reality that the perception of the self as 'actually the opposite sex' no longer causes any shred of cognitive dissonance. But that's just a game theory, and I just want to have this here to laugh if I wind up being right. I suppose it wouldn't really be 'losing' the individual for myself per se, though I would feel for the folks I know who have been generally closer to the guy for years getting dragged through the wringer even more than they already have been should he take that route.

I am not female, so I can only guess at this, but what is it going on that is causing this to happen at such a high rate among girls and women, particularly lesbian ones?

the internet makes it easy for both sexes to pretend to be the opposite, and it gives both a very, very wrong impression of what life as the other is. this creates a natural 'grass is greener' scenario even when you don't involve any major depressive of behavioral disorders. it offers "easy" "outs" to certain circumstances, and the ability to filter - actively or passively - anyone that will remind you that there will forever be a divide between the internet and reality makes it very hard to point out the flaws here, particularly for young folk who don't socialize as well as their peers.

Women tend to have stronger social networks even among their outcasts in which social pressure takes on a far different form from the male counterpart, which is why you see wildfire clusters of trenders. Further, you could argue that early-age female socialization tends to place a higher emphasis on deferment and consensus, leading more to not rock the boat and take the boat at face value. Which further would explain why MTFs often have a decidedly self-righteous absurdity to their gorilla-looking ass walking around in a tutu, and why you may see that FTMS exhibit that same self-righteousness only when it's a friendly crowd and otherwise need a whole lot more of constant drip-fed heccin validation.

enbies do just get free attention and ass-kissing though, because it's quirky and makes dudes thirsty in the manic pixie dream girl vein. male enbies don't get the same heccin validation from their peers nor the sexual attention it promises for women, so it's less prominent and tends to more accurately capture effeminate men who have yet to sprout a spine- thus needing to feel neatly comforted in hyper-specific scientific nomenclature rather than just going 'yeah i like girly shit, whatever'

 

[Mrs. Addams]

Additionally there's the development of something else I've personally noticed in a few cases here and there: deteriorating social ability that rubs off more and more like the individual is talking and interacting more with their idea of the world than with what people are actually saying/doing. To me tends to be a sign that a person is spending so much time in their own head that they're working up the muscles to so thoroughly re-imagine reality that the perception of the self as 'actually the opposite sex' no longer causes any shred of cognitive dissonance. But that's just a game theory, and I just want to have this here to laugh if I wind up being right. I suppose it wouldn't really be 'losing' the individual for myself per se, though I would feel for the folks I know who have been generally closer to the guy for years getting dragged through the wringer even more than they already have been should he take that route.

the internet makes it easy for both sexes to pretend to be the opposite, and it gives both a very, very wrong impression of what life as the other is. this creates a natural 'grass is greener' scenario even when you don't involve any major depressive of behavioral disorders. it offers "easy" "outs" to certain circumstances, and the ability to filter - actively or passively - anyone that will remind you that there will forever be a divide between the internet and reality makes it very hard to point out the flaws here, particularly for young folk who don't socialize as well as their peers.

This would absolutely jive with what I’m seeing in my trans friend. He’s deteriorating socially, and building a fantasy world, and as long as he lives online, that’s actually possible. He’s mentioned hot boyfriends, on the internet, who tell him he’s pretty and desirable… for basically doing nothing except acting shy, hiding in his hair, and probably showing boobs, thus reinforcing the idea that if he can actually pull off being a girl, everyone will love him. But real life is less kind (or perhaps less full of chasers).

 

[Hepativore]

This would absolutely jive with what I’m seeing in my trans friend. He’s mentioned hot boyfriends, on the internet, who tell him he’s pretty and desirable… for basically doing nothing, thus reinforcing the idea that if he can actually pull off being a girl, everyone will love him. But real life is less kind (or perhaps less full of chasers).

...and therein lies the problem. Most people can spot an MTF a mile away no matter what lengths they go to try and pass, and there is a yawning gulf between what people say they think about trans people and what they actually think...and many women HATE it when TIMs barge into female spaces and expect to be treated like "one of the girls" judging from what female Kiwis have said on here and elsewhere.

This is a popular cartoon that has been floating around the internet for awhile, but there is a massive difference between what a troon thinks is "passing" versus how they are actually perceived...

Spoiler: People here might not be in a humorous mood...

 

[Mrs. Addams]

I would generally agree, but with the caviot that I have several female friends who are either LGBT or pro-LGBT, who would go to war to protect our trans friends from anything transphobic. I haven't asked but I assume they're cool with sharing bathrooms and such... until one of the crazies peaks them.

 

[jellygender]

I'm getting afraid that I will eventually troon out myself. Just that psychological paranoid feeling like am I the wrong one here.

Hang in there. You are not in the wrong.

This crazy shit affects actual lesbians in a really weird disproportionate way, speaking as a gen-xer who had a ton of lesbionic friends back when things were quasi-normal. "90s normal", as in: the female lesbians and male gays and even the performative bis went about their business in their respective coffee shops and nightclubs, the transvestite middle aged dudes kept their fetish confined to their literal closet when their wife was out grocery shopping, and the only true porn addicts were a few tubby creepers who had to drive to a physical shop/cinema to get their pervy fixes. Oh, and the disturbed teen girls had eating disorders instead of yaoi obsessions.

I'm not a feminist, so feel a bit weird suggesting this, but can you perhaps connect w/ a radfem tribe so you can network into a group of GC female lesbians (two terms which should be utterly redundant, but no longer are)?

 

[Carnivorous Plant]

It seems more and more like I'm the only lesbian that hasn't succumbed to this dangerous nonsense yet. I'm getting afraid that I will eventually troon out myself. Just that psychological paranoid feeling like am I the wrong one here. All but a couple of my old Tumblr and college friends have at least become enbies or use she/they. Both are severely depressed and self loathing.

Gender nonconformity is very deeply intertwined in lesbianism (butch culture, shunning the "male gaze", and so forth) and it's so sad to see women with internalized misogyny assume it to mean that they aren't allowed to be women. You are definitely not in the wrong here and I'm sorry you're having those paranoid thoughts.

 

[toilet_rainbow]

Gender nonconformity is very deeply intertwined in lesbianism (butch culture, shunning the "male gaze", and so forth) and it's so sad to see women with internalized misogyny assume it to mean that they aren't allowed to be women. You are definitely not in the wrong here and I'm sorry you're having those paranoid thoughts.

Thanks, stranger.

I think it doesn’t help that I have a lot of the same experiences short of wondering if I was a man. I struggled really badly with my sexuality well into my twenties. Knew I liked chicks in my teens but had trouble accepting that I only liked women (and certainly not trannies as much as SJWs and trannies want lesbians to suck girl dick), and that that was okay. I very easily could’ve succumbed around the same time to going by they pronouns etc, and that’s what scares me. Why didn’t I do that too? What made my perspective and actions different? I feel fortunate but I suppose I’m also feeling some sort of survivors guilt? It’s weird, along with heartbreaking.

 

[Hepativore]

Thanks, stranger.

I think it doesn’t help that I have a lot of the same experiences short of wondering if I was a man. I struggled really badly with my sexuality well into my twenties. Knew I liked chicks in my teens but had trouble accepting that I only liked women (and certainly not trannies as much as SJWs and trannies want lesbians to suck girl dick), and that that was okay. I very easily could’ve succumbed around the same time to going by they pronouns etc, and that’s what scares me. Why didn’t I do that too? What made my perspective and actions different? I feel fortunate but I suppose I’m also feeling some sort of survivors guilt? It’s weird, along with heartbreaking.

Look at it this way, there are an increasing number of detransitioners that the Troon Platoon wants to sweep under the rug and it is a lot harder for FTMs to go back once the HRT has started even without the surgery. Many of your "trans" friends might come to regret transitioning, as they will find that they are not really FTMs after all.

There was a cat picture posted earlier in the thread, so maybe it would cheer you up by looking at it.

 

[Kung Pow Cream]

Thanks, stranger.

I think it doesn’t help that I have a lot of the same experiences short of wondering if I was a man. I struggled really badly with my sexuality well into my twenties. Knew I liked chicks in my teens but had trouble accepting that I only liked women (and certainly not trannies as much as SJWs and trannies want lesbians to suck girl dick), and that that was okay. I very easily could’ve succumbed around the same time to going by they pronouns etc, and that’s what scares me. Why didn’t I do that too? What made my perspective and actions different? I feel fortunate but I suppose I’m also feeling some sort of survivors guilt? It’s weird, along with heartbreaking.

I personally see trooning as a symptom of mental illness. I see it again and again that people transition because they think their life will automatically be better when they change their body.

It's a bit of nature and nurture. Your brain has to have identity issues or lack the ability develop an actual sense of self. This is why many people with autism get sucked in. Their sense of self is a bit off kilter compared to the typical person. And then you have to be in an environment where people tell you being trans is wonderful and how it's so nice to be "their real self".

It always comes down that "real self" thing. They always tell the story how a person felt wrong for their entire life and then they became their "real self" and felt so much better. And people who have been depressed, feel lonely, or perhaps lack a community eat it up. The significant thing here is that they want to feel happy, complete, and fulfilled. This is also how cults get you. That person who switched religions a lot was trying to get those three through religious communities.

For your case, you probably worked through those rough times and didn't need to find your real self. You simply realized you were you and you slowly got yourself to feel some sense of happiness, completeness, and fulfillment. You didn't see the need to alter your body. You probably realized how insane and dangerous it was. As for pronouns, you probably realized that wouldn't give you any happiness. Plus you probably saw the weirdos going by xe/xem and didn't want to join the group.

For me personally, I have a few people who have transitioned and it's incredibly heartbreaking. Mental illness issues affect me quite deeply and it's incredibly depressing watching multiple people go through down a hole of desiring happiness but never actually finding it. I've written about one dear friend in this thread and literally all they want is happiness. That's what these people want. They just want to be happy and these people are preying on the vulnerable and outsiders can't help them because that's deemed as transphobic.

I've also thought "What if I was the one that trooned out?" but I don't think it would have happened to me. I see no benefit to transitioning. My body is fine. My voice is fine. The surgeries seem insane. The hormones kill you. I see the trans people around me and they're all depressed. They say they're happy but being a trans person is incredibly difficult. Your existence makes people uncomfortable and angry. Your brain is constantly telling you things that make you upset. It seems completely like hell.

 

[Protistology]

I personally see trooning as a symptom of mental illness. I see it again and again that people transition because they think their life will automatically be better when they change their body.

It's a bit of nature and nurture. Your brain has to have identity issues or lack the ability develop an actual sense of self. This is why many people with autism get sucked in. Their sense of self is a bit off kilter compared to the typical person. And then you have to be in an environment where people tell you being trans is wonderful and how it's so nice to be "their real self".

It always comes down that "real self" thing. They always tell the story how a person felt wrong for their entire life and then they became their "real self" and felt so much better. And people who have been depressed, feel lonely, or perhaps lack a community eat it up. The significant thing here is that they want to feel happy, complete, and fulfilled. This is also how cults get you. That person who switched religions a lot was trying to get those three through religious communities.

For your case, you probably worked through those rough times and didn't need to find your real self. You simply realized you were you and you slowly got yourself to feel some sense of happiness, completeness, and fulfillment. You didn't see the need to alter your body. You probably realized how insane and dangerous it was. As for pronouns, you probably realized that wouldn't give you any happiness. Plus you probably saw the weirdos going by xe/xem and didn't want to join the group.

For me personally, I have a few people who have transitioned and it's incredibly heartbreaking. Mental illness issues affect me quite deeply and it's incredibly depressing watching multiple people go through down a hole of desiring happiness but never actually finding it. I've written about one dear friend in this thread and literally all they want is happiness. That's what these people want. They just want to be happy and these people are preying on the vulnerable and outsiders can't help them because that's deemed as transphobic.

I've also thought "What if I was the one that trooned out?" but I don't think it would have happened to me. I see no benefit to transitioning. My body is fine. My voice is fine. The surgeries seem insane. The hormones kill you. I see the trans people around me and they're all depressed. They say they're happy but being a trans person is incredibly difficult. Your existence makes people uncomfortable and angry. Your brain is constantly telling you things that make you upset. It seems completely like hell.

I really don't understand this. People always tell that they don't know who they are, they are finding themselves, they are being their true selves. For me, I know who I am. I am me. I am 100% me. I can't lose my self and I can't be more me that I already am. Is this anti-Autism?

 

[Mothra1988]

Thanks, stranger.

I think it doesn’t help that I have a lot of the same experiences short of wondering if I was a man. I struggled really badly with my sexuality well into my twenties. Knew I liked chicks in my teens but had trouble accepting that I only liked women (and certainly not trannies as much as SJWs and trannies want lesbians to suck girl dick), and that that was okay. I very easily could’ve succumbed around the same time to going by they pronouns etc, and that’s what scares me. Why didn’t I do that too? What made my perspective and actions different? I feel fortunate but I suppose I’m also feeling some sort of survivors guilt? It’s weird, along with heartbreaking.

Yeah, I think this is one of the new things I hate about ideological transgender idiots, they are prerying on girls that may feel just a bit butch (masculine) and convincing them it's a gender identity/dysphoria thing when it's not and we've had butch girls in the lesbian community since forever and it was never about turning into a man. If you transition like that, no lesbian will want to date you and no straight girl either, so what is even the point? You won't fucking belong anywhere and you're messing up your body over nothing, it's just madness. The assholes who tell kids this crap are evil and need to be stopped already.

 

[NerdShamer]

I really don't understand this. People always tell that they don't know who they are, they are finding themselves, they are being their true selves. For me, I know who I am. I am me. I am 100% me. I can't lose my self and I can't be more me that I already am. Is this anti-Autism?

Technically, it's disassociation; but that is supposed to be a part of being so crazy that people shouldn't be making that exact claim while being normal-ish.

 

[FoolhardStar]

Guess I know one more T now.

Spoiler: Powerlevel hider

Something comes up from mutual friends about the new identity, and I thought it was a joke or something else (guy's the type to play a character but not become them, if that makes sense). I actually scrolled through his social media(s), and there's posts talking about justtransgirlthings interspersed with other shit. Felt something leave my body.

I'll never know if the insecurities got to be too much, if he was groomed into "becoming the girlfriend" or if my friend is a skinwalker now, given that he doesn't talk much about his personal life (but what I know isn't exactly out of line for grooming victims, sadly). I hate to sound overdramatic or like I'm just venting, but the realization changed to horror in a literal split second. Funny how just a few minutes of reading can leave you knocked on your ass, isn't it?

 

[One Quick Post]

I don't usually like PLing on Kiwi Farms for obvious reasons, but I guess I just have to spill my thoughts somewhere that'll understand. Called my mother today and she told me that apparently my niece believes she is a he now. She's only 13, for fucks sake.

I sincerely hope whoever groomed her into believing this shit burns in hell. She has a touch of the 'tism, and you know those paedo sons of bitches love to target them.

Family is family, nothing changes that. I don't give a shit what she wants to identify as or whatever, but I am fearful of her getting dragged down the road to permanent damage (puberty blockers, surgery, etc) by whatever sick fuck has their claws in her. It's unlikely she came up with this shit on her own, and not knowing who it is terrifies me (and her parents, I'm sure.)

I will never see her as a boy nor a man though. I don't know what being supportive in this looks like, going along with this feels so wrong, calling her a he is going to feel like I'm lying to someone I care about's face. What can I even do? What can her parents even do, especially in today's society where there's an increasing drive to punish parents who refuse to allow their child "gender affirming treatment?"

It makes me feel sick, the idea that she could be damaged physically for life because some creep wants to "crack an egg" or whatever they're calling it. Fuck this shit.