Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

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I will never see her as a boy nor a man though. I don't know what being supportive in this looks like, going along with this feels so wrong, calling her a he is going to feel like I'm lying to someone I care about's face. What can I even do?
Don't refer to her as a male. If it isn't officially documented that she's a man (passport), there really isn't any reason to change anything.
What can her parents even do
Don't really know about this one, but until she's 18. She can't do shit on her own, after that. She can do whatever the fuck and get disowned if she wants. It's really not their problem.
 
What can her parents even do, especially in today's society where there's an increasing drive to punish parents who refuse to allow their child "gender affirming treatment?"

Seconding not doing the pronoun game. So many trans-identifying kids have become tiny tyrants while the adults acquiesce to the utterly ridiculous demands. She's not a boy and ultimately it's not kind to help deepen her delusion. Not easy though. We are living it w/ a teen family member, so I get it. Be forewarned: you'll be a baddie for not playing the game and her online friends will probably convince her she's been traumatized by her transphobic relative.

The calculus IMO is short term convenience (do pronouns, play along even though you don't believe it, the kid is pleased by having the delusion furthered) vs staying grounded in the truth (kid might hate you, but hopefully this is temporary).

Are the parents actively looking for ways to navigate your niece out of this? If they're going along to get along, I don't know what to tell you. But if they are viewing this development critically, it calls for drastic measures. Like switching her smartphone to a dumbphone (if she has to have one at all) and turning off the household wifi to go back to an ethernet connection (for the adults' computing/streaming needs, or a family desktop computer in a common room, if need be). Go back to 2008. Summer's coming up, can they go on some crazy trip to somewhere remote or rural, maybe with a service element or a wilderness thing? Get her offline, break the spell. 13 is still so young. Kids need loving boundaries and w/ this topic in particular, few people are willing to give them & stick to it.
 
why not mix'n'match? So everyone knows these kids don't grow these ideas organically, they come from groomers poisoning them on the internet because a girl likes to play with legos. So in the same breath that you heavily restrict / monitor internet activity, do gender-affirming shit in reality and do more of it. Go hiking and camping and fishing and whatever, go-karts, whatever. Do generally fun things, and let the kid dress however they want / invite them to experiment with the pronouns (ie don't just use one or the other, have days or outings where you switch it up and see what they prefer). Why? Because if you do this in combination with sapping of them of the online heccin validation... it just comes off as stupid. It gets through that using "she" and "he" are words of convenience, and don't carry this retarded kalvinist-determinist weight that groomers suggest they do, thus necessitating made-up pronouns.

You basically have to explain to them that people on the internet are going to try to force them to make a really hard-line choice when they don't need to. Kids that young don't understand the world and their entire perception of it is based on what their peers and folks tell them, it's just that their peers now can easily include pseudoanonymous sex-pests. So you've got to explain - being a girl doesn't mean a whole lot. Want to work on cars? Ok, girls can work on cars - and if you want to do that, why don't we see about apprenticeships or talking to mechanics? Want to play in the dirt and mud? Yeah sure whatever go ahead.

Want to get hard into sports? Sure, go for it. etc etc etc - there are certain things women have to deal with that men don't, but - this is important - there's also things trans men have to deal with that men and women don't. Kids are being sold on neverland, so your goal is mostly to tell them that there's no netherland, there's certain things you can't get out of in real life, and real life is actually not as bad as the people online are telling you it is.

Your goal is to find a good activity and group of real-life peers that share the same interests as the kid, because there's a reason the groomers target outcasts who have uncommon hobbies. Too many parents will try to steer the kid away from dressing more masculine or getting into more masculine hobbies - that's the wrong attitude. Let them experiment and feel it out for themselves, because in the vast majority of cases they'll start to realize the absurdity of it. So many kids that transition don't experiment with anything - they spend all day on the fucking internet, and then they get a bunch of ass-pats for loudly proclaiming how special they are, and they ride that externally-injected dopamine. Change their reward structure up, make them mostly draw feeling good from within, doing things they like that aren't just playing games and sitting on social media.

It's necessarily an uphill battle, and it requires the parents to commit to using much less social media themselves and working to enable their kid to find a good hobby / group without helicopter parenting. With so much shit happening on the internet anymore, that's a lot harder. So if you're gonna tell your kid the internet's not really great for them, you've gotta commit yourself to doing the exact same thing. If you drop your kid off to play DnD with their peers or whatever other retro-stupid shit kids are doing, don't monitor their every last thing. Experimentation is good, natural, and fine; it's part of growing up. It's also important to draw that distinction - grooming isn't experimenting. Naturally, that still presents a problem with social contagion.

It may also do good to draw the line between harmful and non-harmful behaviors. Changing up your clothing and playing rugby isn't harmful. Binding, hormones, blockers, and any form of surgery are all harmful, most largely irreversible. Flooding them with research papers isn't worthwhile, but it is useful to have some of them in your back pocket if someone ever spouts "that's not true." But more importantly, you can be laissez-faire with non-harmful behaviors, while you can set clear and obvious guidelines for the other. If they insist they want the harmful treatments, then they'll need to get a therapist and talk with a therapist to determine if they have GD. Obviously, you'll have to shop for one that actually determines this; you don't want an obvious pray the gay away therapist and you don't want a therapist that believes children know everything. Because you need to trust that virtually no-one actually has GD, and so long as you cut off the online grooming while otherwise going through what the proper steps would be, they'll eventually abandon it.

I would also recommend saying that if they push for any transitional surgery, they're gonna need to get a job to pay for it themselves - as we all know, getting a job is anathema. Again, chances are very high that they'll never actually follow it through - but especially if they're someone whose idea of life is playing video games and sitting on the internet, the idea of having to get a job may just be spooky enough.

The reality is, if you try something UBER-LOCKDOWN, your child will just fucking do it at 18 and discard you. They will willingly forego all familial contact and throw themselves into a 'foster family' and set themselves up again and again and again for failure, because you no longer exist in a world where finding an escape from the hyper-restrictive family is difficult. And with the internet, you can never go back into it. As a result, to have actual success in getting a kid not only to resist being groomed while a teen but also to resist it when they're an adult, you need to give them the opportunity to experiment and discover themselves while cutting off the direct injections of nonsense that groomers will assault them with. Creating self-confidence and a sense of self-worth that comes from something the kid actually does is a huge part of this, and it's no surprise that the hyper-restrictive approach tends to tell (particularly female) kids that they're essentially dirt if they don't fit perfectly into the world, and if they don't like the idea of becoming a tradwife, god is gonna give 'em a rougher beating than dad will. You have to instill a sense of self that creates resilience to grooming while you still have legal control over them, because afterwards you've got no recourse - especially if your interpersonal relationships aren't too good.

oh, one other recommendation for distressing amount of families, hey yeah maybe stop molesting and sexually assaulting your kids so that they inevitably troon out and then turn into groomers. but of course that's an uncomfortable topic so of course that never really happens in real life and of course a good, god-fearing household would never have something like that happen
 
I really don't understand this. People always tell that they don't know who they are, they are finding themselves, they are being their true selves. For me, I know who I am. I am me. I am 100% me. I can't lose my self and I can't be more me that I already am. Is this anti-Autism?
This is more self-actualization/wellness/self-care as a euphemism for self-obsession, painted over as a moral good. In other words, it is Ayn Rand in hipster glasses.

I've also thought "What if I was the one that trooned out?" but I don't think it would have happened to me. I see no benefit to transitioning. My body is fine. My voice is fine. The surgeries seem insane. The hormones kill you. I see the trans people around me and they're all depressed. They say they're happy but being a trans person is incredibly difficult. Your existence makes people uncomfortable and angry. Your brain is constantly telling you things that make you upset. It seems completely like hell.

Troons cope with the inherent doubts and cognitive dissonance of pretending to be someone they are not by encouraging others to do the same. An enormous amount of mental energy is devoted to the crowdsourcing of validation and firefighting of anything that triggers internal conflict, which is always nagging in the back of the mind. Therefore, troons require—or demand—a constant supply of affirmation to keep the doubts at bay. When this is not met, they blame others for their sudden anxiety as the illusion is threatened, and seek to reassert control, typically by emotional manipulation.

Naturally this is going to make you unhappy. Not only does it cover up the real problems, but now they also have to run a Red Queen's Race to keep up the fantasy. Failure to do so results in the wound being reopened, and of course the cult tells you that this is the other party's fault; they are betraying you because they are evil. It's an exhausting way to live.

When a person is at peace with themselves and expressing themselves naturally, they don’t desperately micromanage everything and everyone around them, nor do they fall to pieces at the first hint of their identity being an elaborate fantasy.
 
@Rich Evans Ayypologist I can't reply to you but I heavily agree with what you're saying. I kind of believe these ideas are hyperfixations. I have dealt with autistic individuals and literally the only way to wean them off of hyperfixations is to reduce contact with the thing you don't want them to focus on and then replace it with something else. You can't completely remove the thing because that'll cause a meltdown. Don't just stick to one thing. You have to continuously introduce them to new things until something else sticks.

Remember, these people are having trouble with their identity so they're trying to attach themselves to being trans in order to find their niche. If you find something else that makes them feel complete, you essentially win the game. It sounds easy but essentially you have to throw many things at them and it can be quite difficult depending on your resources. You also have to know their likes and dislikes.

For example, if they're a nerd and don't like going outside, actually figure out why they don't like going outside. Do they hate exercise? Do they hate being away from the internet? Do they like nature? Do they like cities instead? Work around those things and figure stuff out to do and see if they like that. If they don't go onto the next thing.

And while you're doing this, try to bond with them. Try to understand them. This communication is key to understanding their likes and dislikes and also their niche.
I really don't understand this. People always tell that they don't know who they are, they are finding themselves, they are being their true selves. For me, I know who I am. I am me. I am 100% me. I can't lose my self and I can't be more me that I already am. Is this anti-Autism?
That's because your life is different from them. Many children and teens go through a period of "What am I?". People who have stressful lives begin to doubt themselves and such. When you're depressed, you're now in a deep place and you're trying to find things that make you happy. Or when you're lonely, you're trying to find a community that gives you attention and care.

It's exactly like how cults get you. They get vulnerable people that need something and then they say "We have the solution you need." I probably could call this a cult because it shows signs.

I mean look at this:
ce5f0vwkecs51.jpg

They hit so many points in this picture. It could be described as a cult.
 
What can I even do? What can her parents even do, especially in today's society where there's an increasing drive to punish parents who refuse to allow their child "gender affirming treatment?"
Girls don't really want to be treated like men, they want the uwu fakeboi treatment were they still paint their hair pink and draw mermaids .

I have this ongoing theory that the more they are actually treated like real men the more they will want to reconsider and go back, the men in your family just have to call her a faggot, talk to her about smashin puss and fist bump her enough times, she might come around.
 
Girls don't really want to be treated like men, they want the uwu fakeboi treatment were they still paint their hair pink and draw mermaids .

I have this ongoing theory that the more they are actually treated like real men the more they will want to reconsider and go back, the men in your family just have to call her a faggot, talk to her about smashin puss and fist bump her enough times, she might come around.
It all started with lesbian's obsession with trying to emulate men...
 
Girls don't really want to be treated like men, they want the uwu fakeboi treatment were they still paint their hair pink and draw mermaids .

I have this ongoing theory that the more they are actually treated like real men the more they will want to reconsider and go back, the men in your family just have to call her a faggot, talk to her about smashin puss and fist bump her enough times, she might come around.
Just take her hunting. Order her to prove she's a real man by killing a deer and skinning it. Should do that with MTF troons too actually...
 
Just take her hunting. Order her to prove she's a real man by killing a deer and skinning it. Should do that with MTF troons too actually...
just have her carry the camping equipment and a heave bag of coals by herself the whole trail, tease her if she lags behind, point and laugh if she says she can't go on anymore or or if she drops something, call her a wussy, tell her to "man the fuck up bro" whenever she complains about anything . This is peak male experience , it should inmediatly trigger feelings of intense gender euphoria.
 
Girls don't really want to be treated like men, they want the uwu fakeboi treatment were they still paint their hair pink and draw mermaids .

I have this ongoing theory that the more they are actually treated like real men the more they will want to reconsider and go back, the men in your family just have to call her a faggot, talk to her about smashin puss and fist bump her enough times, she might come around.
Just take her hunting. Order her to prove she's a real man by killing a deer and skinning it. Should do that with MTF troons too actually...

just have her carry the camping equipment and a heave bag of coals by herself the whole trail, tease her if she lags behind, point and laugh if she says she can't go on anymore or or if she drops something, call her a wussy, tell her to "man the fuck up bro" whenever she complains about anything . This is peak male experience , it should inmediatly trigger feelings of intense gender euphoria.
You guys don't understand the mental gymnastics these people undergo. All of what you all said would immediately be labeled as "toxic masculinity" in order to ensure that their idea of being a softboi is valid.

They only see being a man as a privilege much like TiMs see being a woman as a privilege. They don't actually know what men go through. They only see things through a stereotypical lens. They don't actually want to be a man, they just want whatever good things they think being a man has.

Remember, these people are mentally ill. They essentially have delusions. If you've ever talked to a person having psychotic symptoms, it is incredibly difficult to break through that delusion because their idea of reality is incredibly real to them. There's literally books that teach families how to convince their loved ones that they need to go to a doctor and get help. This one is actually one that is famously recommended.
 
Remember, these people are mentally ill.
Some are pathological but others are just kids. I wouldn't want to understimate it, this shit is fucked up, they are definitely on a path that leads to mental illness and self harm but some of these young people really don't know and can't fully grasp it yet with their limited experience.

From what i read from detransitioners a lot were just regular teens that were caught up in this at their most vulnerable. The new generations is not being informed well, they are being lovebombed and misguided so they will only see it a certain way and get a certain kind of validation from peers, media and institutions but can eventually made to see if the fog is lifted. I am holding out hope that a big chunk of the transtrenders can be brought back before its too late and can leave the phase behind as an embarassing time in their lives and seeing it for what it is, maybe after some reality checks smack into them like so many kids that had to be tard wrangled and grow from their teenage dellusions
 
I have a close friend (biologically male) who really went through a terrible time in her life. She was abused by her parents and went to therapy for years. They were miserable all the time, until they transitioned years later after many years of therapy. It was like seeing another person come out of a shell. It's why I'm hesitant to shit on trans people after seeing someone like that blossom. I think it can be good for some people. Not 50 year old fetishists.
 
Tbh I've never really seen a friend go through trooning from being a regular person. I have friends of friends that have but all the trans friends I have were already like that when I first met them.

I would say that by proxy I've caused the very same emotions in this thread for many people in my life, I'll skip the boring blog post but I was born (and still am) male and have been on estrogen twice in my life, starting from 18-21. After that I detransitioned for a time but the effects of being on hrt for that long don't reverse and so my bodies all fucked up (I can basically never take my shirt off infront of someone without them already knowing or wear tight clothes/t-shirts) as well as being permanently infertile and having my endocrine system be fucked with.

I think the level of adversity you see from a lot of troons is out of ignorance and fear. It was difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that no, people didn't cut me out of their lives because they're transphobic, they cut me out because I became unstable and they couldn't bear to see me continue to fall into the depths of mental illness and self destruction. I can't possibly imagine the feelings of my mother seeing her son ruin his body and mind without really knowing why, and even attempting to is borderline impossible.

So with that I'd say the best way to deal with someone you suspect is going to troon out or is in the process of early stages of the process (in 90% of cases) is similar to how you'd deal with somebody who is suicidal. Remind them that you love them (in an explicitly non sexual manner), spend time with them and try to avoid discussion of the TQ as a whole unless absolutely necessary, pushing against them and insulting their choices will (especially for MtFs) further them in to a mindset of victimhood, and when you consider most homosexuals and MtFs were sexually molested, this is an inherent mindset and is often the main reason for many males to attempt to transition to being female.

Also hi /tttt/
 
Hello, Kiwis.
It finally happened to me.
A friend of mine from college. Straight, white, male. Married to a woman. They recently had a daughter together. He has a good job, recently got promoted. Talks about pouring money into renovating his house.
Tells the group chat that after talking with a therapist, he's now non-binary.
Motherfucker, how? Can I trust no one in this stupid world?
Like, you fathered a child. Only men can do that. What part of you isn't a man? How fucked up is this therapist?
The group chat, all other men, love bombed him. "We support you! Heart emoji!". One or two of us just didn't reply.
How will this effect your daughter? Your wife?
How fucking delusional are you? How fucked is my life that I can't talk to anyone about this, so I'm resorting to longposting on this hive of autism?
I hope he just snaps out of it.
Like you impregnated a woman and watched her give birth to your child, how can you say sex isn't real and is just a feeling in your head?
I don't know why, but this one hits hard. I can't even laugh at Kevin Gibes anymore. I'm so fed up with this stupid gender-cult.
He's the last person I would expect to do this.
 
I have heard from people that someone who becomes trans doesn't turn into a trans person, but that they were born as one, and the transitioning is simply them finally embracing their true self that society has suppressed and lied to them about.

So maybe he just thought that he was living a lie previously. Or something.
 
Hello, Kiwis.
It finally happened to me.
A friend of mine from college. Straight, white, male. Married to a woman. They recently had a daughter together. He has a good job, recently got promoted. Talks about pouring money into renovating his house.
Tells the group chat that after talking with a therapist, he's now non-binary.
Motherfucker, how? Can I trust no one in this stupid world?
Like, you fathered a child. Only men can do that. What part of you isn't a man? How fucked up is this therapist?
The group chat, all other men, love bombed him. "We support you! Heart emoji!". One or two of us just didn't reply.
How will this effect your daughter? Your wife?
How fucking delusional are you? How fucked is my life that I can't talk to anyone about this, so I'm resorting to longposting on this hive of autism?
I hope he just snaps out of it.
Like you impregnated a woman and watched her give birth to your child, how can you say sex isn't real and is just a feeling in your head?
I don't know why, but this one hits hard. I can't even laugh at Kevin Gibes anymore. I'm so fed up with this stupid gender-cult.
He's the last person I would expect to do this.
If I'm following the current lingo these days, the non-binary guys aren't denying their physical biology (except the ones who are actually getting surgery and trying to look like space aliens)... They're more trying to broadcast their "brain gender" and that they don't want society to treat them as whatever-they're-born-as. On a very simple level, I think they're emotional guys who want permission to be soft, or women who want to be... well, not whatever they associate with womanhood.
 
If I'm following the current lingo these days, the non-binary guys aren't denying their physical biology (except the ones who are actually getting surgery and trying to look like space aliens)... They're more trying to broadcast their "brain gender" and that they don't want society to treat them as whatever-they're-born-as. On a very simple level, I think they're emotional guys who want permission to be soft, or women who want to be... well, not whatever they associate with womanhood.
But, I do not understand this...where is it written that if you are male, you cannot like the color pink, cute things, be emotionally sensitive, etc. Those are all stereotypes that I thought in previous cultural trends we were supposed to be moving away from.

This is why I also think that the trans movement likes to pigeonhole effeminate men into the "non binary/MTF" category much like how it tries to label "tomboys" or "butch lesbians" as TIFs in denial.

This is what originally brought me to this thread, as I posted a story here regarding a male friend of mine who trooned out and surgically mutilated himself just because he felt that as a "male" he could not express the full range of emotion in public.

Being a non-stereotypically "masculine" person does not make you "trans" either, and I think that "femboys" should also learn to accept that being the former should also be perfectly acceptable instead of letting male identity be so narrowly defined.
 
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