War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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You're suggesting for Russians to continue having at it, so that "the global elite" will not be persuaded to intervene in this situation any further. And you suggest targeting critical infrastructure and bombing campaigns. How is neoliberalism related to this?


What does that mean?

Isolate invasive populations? Do you mean people who are running away from the global starvation event your ouster fight has triggered? Good luck! That would result in even more casualties.


Deploying chemical weapons against suicide bombers? Do you know how chemical weapons work? You are using a bunker buster to kill a fly.

So not only do you want to starve loads of people, but you also want to gas loads more to rebuild what...? I'm still waiting to hear what exactly is that you want to rebuild after this.

Once again you need to realize i dont give fuck about Global casulties just the ones West. Gunning down the Waves simply meant sinking their boats and letting them drown. Suicide bomber was pejorative towards enemy not his literal identification and usage of chemical weapons was meant as example, you can be lot more effective in Warfare if you dont fight humanely. the invaders are necessary to cause chaos leading to downfall of neolib elite but after that you need to get rid of them. as for rebuilding see above post, im aware that no matter how well lead the war and no matter how much you protect your own while not giving fuck about enemy and eliminating them without regard for humanity there is gonna be damage.
 
Well put. The reprobates in the other thread and cesspools like /chug/ think just like the college campus commies of today where once based Russia or China takes the reins they'll be uplifted into the the roles of enforcers or commisars. They're so desperate for a shuffle in society they'll root for people that are admittedly worse than the status quo just for a chance to be on top while failing to see at best they'll stay where they are and at worse they'll be shipped out to a commune mining copper ore 6 days a week.
Seriously it pisses me off the people I use to agree with on hating China are now sucking China's dick they are no different than hollywood who for years they claim to hate for kissing up to China.
 
Well put. The reprobates in the other thread and cesspools like /chug/ think just like the college campus commies of today where once based Russia or China takes the reins they'll be uplifted into the the roles of enforcers or commisars. They're so desperate for a shuffle in society they'll root for people that are admittedly worse than the status quo just for a chance to be on top while failing to see at best they'll stay where they are and at worse they'll be shipped out to a commune mining copper ore 6 days a week.

What makes you think we be Commisars, we would be dead just like you my dear neolib. Its not love or self interest, its hate if you cant win destroy everything dear to enemy and leave him but ashes. If you cannot win Burn it all.
 
Seriously it pisses me off the people I use to agree with on hating China are now sucking China's dick they are no different than hollywood who for years they claim to hate for kissing up to China.

You Hate China Because its Authoritarian hellhole standing against liberal ideas of humanitarianism and multiculturalism. I Hate China because its threat to Western Imperium we are not the same :)
 
Feels like these updates are all pretty much the same most of the time. Going to be interesting how this Battle of Donbaschwael will develop in the next weeks. Let's say Russkies completly wreck their reserves and also fail their heavily spoilered "actual offensive", how will Monke react? I mean it's either full mobilization or drop a small nuke on the Ukrainian fortifications. Both will have catastrophic consequences for Moscow so it will be picking the lesser evil.

But us Eurocucks will also suffer, especially when he goes full mobilization. I can hardly imagine that he can justify scraping the barrel with only going for Ukraine. He will probably turn this into some "Great Patriotic war against the NATO nazis" and attack the Baltics and maybe Finland too. I mean Poodin is not fully insane (yet) but he is definetly a narcistic asshole with a tiny ego and he would never accept defeat on the battlefield.

Not even the Russians want to let the nuclear Genie out of the bottle. One big, running thread as we now know from the steadily released Soviet Archives is the Soviets really did see their arsenal as defensive in nature and built it to be as resiliant as possible against western first strike scenarios. As were their two largest cities, with the Metros being in effect giant nuclear bunkers. I personally do not think this mentality has changed since the fall of the Soviet Union.

They also can't really mobilize as its still a special military operation and not a war. The MemriTV equivalents have tried banging that drum steadily for a little bit, especially after the Moskava but then the question becomes what can they arm said reserves with?

The T-72s seem to be rather scrap-like in many cases, with the russian examples performing poorly due to crew training and the fact they were sending out the A models, they were sending the Donbass "Volunteers" out with SKS and AK47s, Never mind the rotting plate carriers and other clear shortages. Even if they mobilize the meat-wave like the Zerg, the Ukranians are increasingly able to arm everyone that wants to fight on the front thanks to donations and weapons transfers.

The Russians would have to start a lend-lease with the Chinese, which doesn't seem to be happening any time soon as the Chinese themselves want a weakened Russia reliant on them, so while it might happen eventually we definitely won't see any Chinese Tanks rocking up. Their main development course was the T-55 for most of their first and second gen tanks, and only really began with T-72 hulls and absolutely no russian systems in the turrets etc, which is the main problem facing the Ukranians with their own armour.

You'd be looking at months on end and even then, you're more likely to see knackered Type 69 and 59s they'd have found from somewhere rocking up which are just T-55s.
 
The Russians would have to start a lend-lease with the Chinese, which doesn't seem to be happening any time soon as the Chinese themselves want a weakened Russia reliant on them, so while it might happen eventually we definitely won't see any Chinese Tanks rocking up. Their main development course was the T-55 for most of their first and second gen tanks, and only really began with T-72 hulls and absolutely no russian systems in the turrets etc, which is the main problem facing the Ukranians with their own armour.

You'd be looking at months on end and even then, you're more likely to see knackered Type 69 and 59s they'd have found from somewhere rocking up which are just T-55s.
i don't think china will cut off the west and fully side with russia in this conflict. even if russia achieves total victory and annexes all ukraine, what does china gain from that? the ability to gloat about NATO being weak? that's not enough to justify the economic damage it would suffer from cutting ties with the west.
 
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:semperfidelis:
 
Okay to simplify it arguing that im russia fan because i find the useful tool for my own agendas and about who i couldnt care less in terms of wellbeing and wouldnt have anything against it getting put down or subject to 90s economic pillaging once it outlives its usefulness,

is like arguing that Hitler was in favor of independent Ukrainian State, just because he found Ukrainian nationalists useful for the moment and would have them eliminated once they outlived their usefulness.

TL:biggrin:R dont equate making use of something with supporting it.
Stop larping like you even have an ideology. You want to see the world burn because you have no dick. It doesn’t take a rocket psychologist to figure out.
 
Putin abandons hopes of Ukraine deal and shifts to land-grab strategy (archive)

Russian president was considering settlement with Kyiv last month but now sees no prospect of that

Vladimir Putin has lost interest in diplomatic efforts to end his war with Ukraine and instead appears set on seizing as much Ukrainian territory as possible, according to three people briefed on conversations with the Russian president.

Putin, who was seriously considering a peace deal with Ukraine after Russia suffered battlefield setbacks last month, has told people involved in trying to end the conflict that he sees no prospects for a settlement.

“Putin sincerely believes in the nonsense he hears on [Russian] television and he wants to win big,” said a person briefed on the talks.

Though Moscow and Kyiv agreed their first draft communique at a meeting in Istanbul in late March, talks stalled after Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky accused Russia of committing war crimes against civilians in cities such as Bucha and Mariupol.

Putin said peace efforts were at a “dead end” and was infuriated after Ukraine sank the Moskva, the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, according to two of the people.

“There was hope for a deal. Putin was going back and forth. He needs to find a way to come out of this a winner,” one of the people said.

After the Moskva sank, “Putin was against signing anything. [ . . . ] after the Moskva he doesn’t look like a winner, because it was humiliating,” the person added.

Ukrainian and western officials had always doubted his commitment to peace talks, suspecting it was a way of buying time for Moscow’s offensive.

The Russian president appears to hold a distorted view of the war as set out by his generals and depicted on Russian television, the people briefed on conversations with him said.

They added that he insisted, despite all evidence to the contrary, that his forces have not targeted civilians during attacks such as the siege of the Azovstal steelworks, Ukrainian forces’ last holdout in the largely destroyed city of Mariupol.

Intermediaries such as Turkey’s president Recep Tayyip Erdogan, European Council president Charles Michel and billionaire Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich have been trying to convince Putin to meet Zelensky in hope they can break the deadlock.

Russian and Ukrainian negotiators have placed most other issues on the back burner while trying to thrash out a deal on guarantees for Kyiv’s security if it declares neutrality and abandons its drive to join Nato.

But Putin told Michel in a call on Friday that the talks had run aground because Ukraine “put up a wall” and said it “was not the right time” to meet Zelensky, according to a person briefed on that conversation.

Negotiators interpreted that as meaning Russia believes it can capture more territory, rather than being an indication that the talks need more time to find areas of agreement.

Putin is avoiding the meeting with Zelensky “with all his might,” a person involved in the peace talks said. “He wants everything to be decided before their personal meeting,”

Zelensky said on Saturday that he wanted the talks to go on but said Ukraine would not continue negotiating if people in Mariupol were killed, or if Russian authorities in the occupied southern region of Kherson were to stage a separatist referendum.

Officials in Kyiv are concerned Putin may go further than Russia’s stated goal of capturing the eastern Donbas border region and instead try to seize the whole of the south-east, cutting Ukraine off from the sea, according to people involved in trying to end the war.

Ukraine is confident it can push Russian troops back further after defeating Putin’s initial plan to rapidly seize the country, but officials are increasingly worried that Moscow could resort to tactical nuclear weapons if it suffers further setbacks, two of the people said.

In a meeting with Michel in Kyiv on Wednesday, Zelensky said Ukrainian public opinion did not support continuing the peace talks, adding that he was conscious that fighting Putin was more popular than making concessions, according to a person briefed on their conversation.

Erdogan spoke to Zelensky on Sunday in a drive to revive the stalled negotiations. The Turkish leader said Ankara stood ready to help, according to a statement. Erdogan said on Friday that he also hoped to speak to Putin in the days ahead.

Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov and a representative for Abramovich did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
 
it would be wiped out within days
If by days you mean two, then yes. I don't believe Russian AD could last longer than that, especially when you factor in NATO probably knows where every single piece of heavy equipment near the border is thanks to satellites and recon drones.
Turn Mariupol into a provisionally victory, maybe try to attack Odessa in the south instead, offer Zelensky a cease fire and turn this into a stalemate trench warfare. I can hardly imagine that Eurocucks and America will help the UA army to achieve a total victory over the Russians since it would just trigger a irrational response from Monkee. They will provide them with enough heavy arms to do some occasional push backs large enough to weaken the Russian forces but not enough to drive Russians back to the border/retake Crimea.

Situation in the Donbass will turn into a European Syria and Monke will withdraw his troops once both sides are completly unable to start any meaningful offensives for the next 10 years. Endproduct will be the same situation as prewar but with Russian control over the ruins of Mariupol and some gains outside of Donezk large enough too maybe prevent UA artillery from shelling Seperatist positions.
We're not going to get trench warfare. The minute the Russian offense stops and Ukraine can catch its breath and get those reserves Igor Gerkin mentioned equipped and into the field there's going to be a big shift in Ukrainian posture. Right now so long as the offense is ongoing Ukraine needs to feed troops in wherever they can to slow or stop the push and buy time, and that's depleted their in-field reserves... but it has bought them time to call up reservists, get equipment from NATO moved in, and call up their reservists and get them trained. For example, the minute Barbarossa was forced to come to a screeching halt thanks to weather the Russians were able to pull troops off the Manchurian border, get their conscripts some actual training instead of Enemy at the Gates "you get a gun, he gets ammo" human wave desperation tactics, and build up supply depots in preparation for the next assault. If the Russians dig in that's just letting the Ukrainians pilfer a bunch of guided indirect fire weapons from Polish warehouses that have a CEP measured in double digits or less and figure out how to use them. Plus if the USA and the French are sending them the good stuff like Excalibur for the M777s and Caesars they're getting, that's even worse for the Russians as those can do the artillery equivalent of hitting a postage stamp with their fire.

Oh, and incendiary and obscurant weapons like say, napalm and WP weapons are completely legal to use against dug-in soldiers so long as there's no civilians around.
 
napalm and WP weapons are completely legal to use against dug-in soldiers so long as there's no civilians around.
Russians are not beneath using kidnapped children as sand bag replacement.

If they're going to dig in they'll dig in in such a way where a counter offensive that doesn't kill civilians is impossible or at the very least, extremely bloody and ugly.
 
Oh my Lord, this whole mess is not only cruel, but just plain retarded. Taking Crimea was bad and pushed Russian economy into a shitter, because they started to pour money just there, while keeping the same corruption levels and starving depressed regions even more. Grapsing Ukraine would be a fucking suicide for everyone who isn't Abramovitch.

I'm not talking about the very fact of attacking another country. I believe, at this point everyone knows that war is bad.
 
Russians are not beneath using kidnapped children as sand bag replacement.

If they're going to dig in they'll dig in in such a way where a counter offensive that doesn't kill civilians is impossible or at the very least, extremely bloody and ugly.
Sadly, yes. Hopefully Putin is smart enough to realize that that is playing with fire though, and the Poles and Baltics might very well just go "Fuck it", point to that, and dare NATO to stop them.
 
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Looks like Ukraine is getting it's wish to start having more heavy shit shipped in. Learning a bunch of different systems will kinda suck, but common ammo standards is neat. If we're now starting to send them shit that they've never used before/need to be trained on, I wonder what else we'll send them? I mean Ukraine has been begging for more AA especially, and the UK is already in the middle of replacing our Rapier batteries with Sky Sabre, might as well let the Ukies lob em at the Russians instead of scapping them.

Also came across this which tickled me:
Trickle Up Economics.GIF

All I can picture is that scene from the Princess Bride "you're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen"
 
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