Home Buying / Housing Market Griefing Thread - You're going to rent until you die.

[Accept Only Substitutes]

Why did you need to redo it all? Knob and tube wiring? I'm assuming if you were in an old house part of this was pulling out a panel with fuses and replacing it with breakers. Insurance companies won't even insure new purchases with fuses in my parts these days.

Knob and tube, yep. There's breakers, but Knob and tube in the attic. According to my husband, I'm scared of ladders so I haven't been up there. It's a cluster fuck. We haven't actually done this part yet, just got the estimate. It's the next project and I'm absolutely dreading it. Our walls are a mix of lathe and plaster and drywall - so if they have to cut through the walls that's going to be fun, plus what are we going to do with all our stuff? Ugh. But I definitely want it done. I am deeply afraid of a random house fire, but if it's lasted this long I figure it's probably okay.

Fucked up the quote here:

I'm very surprised at this one. That's a relatively simple job because pex just needs to be crimped as opposed to being soldered like copper. I've never done my whole house in one go, but I've done large sections. It's stupidly easy. I think the contractor may have taken you for a ride on that one, fren.

I think it was mostly labor. It was all the water lines and it took them a full day, maybe two. I can't remember. I may also have gotten the price wrong. It may have been 5,000 come to think of it. Or 4. It's been about a decade now, but man its worth it. During the snowmageddon we had here last year we didn't burst a pipe and our water lines, at least in the kitchen, definitely froze. It did the trick. Probably saved us a big repair bill. I don't really care how much we paid if it meant we didn't have that to deal with. I'll never know, but I'm still grateful.

 

[1440p Curved Monitor]

Started to read the thread but got bored so I skipped some pages so this may have been mentioned: you don't need a 10% down payment for a house. FHA loans allow you to have a 3.5% down payment and I know this because I just did it. You will need more than 3.5% of the agreed price in hand money (the amount of money you bring to closing, this includes the down payment) to cover for brokerage fees and other things. Got a 30 year loan with interest at 3.5%, monthly payment is $2100-$2300 a month and I plan on renting a room to help pay for my mortgage.

Spoiler

And before you lose hope I'm Gen Z, dropped out, work from home and have a software engineering job w/ 85k salary. I live in a north east US city with a population >300,000. I was able to afford it so soon bc of my job and I lived super frugally with a rent of $500 and had housemates.

You can see if you qualify for any local mortgage assistance programs in your state, county, and city. I don't have experience with that though.
If you're still worried, let me tell you about seller's assist.

Let's say you want to buy a home for $250k. It's beautiful, you're ready for it, but then your mortgage officer come to you and says "yea you need $15k for your closing costs". You only have $10k, which sucks. But what you can do is make a new offer of $255k with $5k in seller assist.
In the previous offer, you bring $15k, seller brings nothing, and you walk away with a house while seller walks away with $250k (paid by who you took your loan out from). In the new offer, you bring $10k, seller brings $5k to help you with the closing, and you leave with a house and seller leaves with $255k to have a net total of $250k. In both situations the seller walks away with the same amount of money and the $5k that you needed is now factored into your mortgage. This has helped me greatly with getting my down payment. I don't have family to help me with a down payment so I did a lot of research to buy that house.

If you're ever thinking of buying a fixer-upper take some time and do some serious self-reflecting.

Are you the sort to DIY? Are you the attention to detail sort, or do you say "eh good enough" when you do personal projects? Do you like getting your hands dirty?

If the answer to any of these is no, or even maybe not, ask yourself this: do I have the money to spend tens of thousands of dollars to hire people to fix this place up?

If that answer is no, do not buy a fixer-upper no matter how good the price is or how minor the problems look. It will not be worth it.

Even if the answer is yes to the first three questions, a fixer-upper is a lot of work and expense. Everything is worse than you think it will be, costs more than you budgeted for, and takes twice as long as you think it will.

Paint, carpets, wallpaper, ceiling fans, little things, etc is one thing - but anything bigger is a time and money sink. I really wish someone had told me that before I bought my house. It's super obvious when I look back now, but I was young and stupid (and broke).

My house was totally renovated but the contractors were idiots so I've had to fix a few things myself like doors, doorknobs, cabinets, and windows. It's low tier stuff, but it's still a lot of time and work on top of my other responsibilities. Don't get a fixer upper if you're not willing to turn fixing your house into a full time job.

 

[Uncle June]

Started to read the thread but got bored so I skipped some pages so this may have been mentioned: you don't need a 10% down payment for a house. FHA loans allow you to have a 3.5% down payment and I know this because I just did it. You will need more than 3.5% of the agreed price in hand money (the amount of money you bring to closing, this includes the down payment) to cover for brokerage fees and other things. Got a 30 year loan with interest at 3.5%, monthly payment is $2100-$2300 a month and I plan on renting a room to help pay for my mortgage.

Spoiler

And before you lose hope I'm Gen Z, dropped out, work from home and have a software engineering job w/ 85k salary. I live in a north east US city with a population >300,000. I was able to afford it so soon bc of my job and I lived super frugally with a rent of $500 and had housemates.

You can see if you qualify for any local mortgage assistance programs in your state, county, and city. I don't have experience with that though.
If you're still worried, let me tell you about seller's assist.

Let's say you want to buy a home for $250k. It's beautiful, you're ready for it, but then your mortgage officer come to you and says "yea you need $15k for your closing costs". You only have $10k, which sucks. But what you can do is make a new offer of $255k with $5k in seller assist.
In the previous offer, you bring $15k, seller brings nothing, and you walk away with a house while seller walks away with $250k (paid by who you took your loan out from). In the new offer, you bring $10k, seller brings $5k to help you with the closing, and you leave with a house and seller leaves with $255k to have a net total of $250k. In both situations the seller walks away with the same amount of money and the $5k that you needed is now factored into your mortgage. This has helped me greatly with getting my down payment. I don't have family to help me with a down payment so I did a lot of research to buy that house.

My house was totally renovated but the contractors were idiots so I've had to fix a few things myself like doors, doorknobs, cabinets, and windows. It's low tier stuff, but it's still a lot of time and work on top of my other responsibilities. Don't get a fixer upper if you're not willing to turn fixing your house into a full time job.

I've always been mixed about FHA loans. It's a great way to get younger people into homes and accrue equity, plus allows for extra savings/investments for more stability or opportunity cost.

That being said I simply can't justify paying PMI or paying the larger payment required. I'm fortunate to be older and in a few houses prior to my current one so I have the equity, I'm certainly out of touch in that regard.

You'll be alright though, you're in a stable career that will only increase income (I'm a dirty tradie) and working from home is a BIG money saver. Well done!

 

[1440p Curved Monitor]

I've always been mixed about FHA loans. It's a great way to get younger people into homes and accrue equity, plus allows for extra savings/investments for more stability or opportunity cost.

That being said I simply can't justify paying PMI or paying the larger payment required. I'm fortunate to be older and in a few houses prior to my current one so I have the equity, I'm certainly out of touch in that regard.

You'll be alright though, you're in a stable career that will only increase income (I'm a dirty tradie) and working from home is a BIG money saver. Well done!

Thanks. I'm proud/glad/lucky to be in my position, but there's nothing more that annoys me than seeing people who wallow in their own helplessness spreading their despair that stems from misinformation. I took a peek at r/lostgeneration because I saw a viral tweet on Twitter and these idiots are complaining about a 3 bed 2.5 bath home going for 1.6 million dollars that's located in the heart of Seattle... of course it'll be that much, it's located at Elliott Bay.

If I recall, when you pay the amount that you borrowed for the house (not including the interest), you can call your mortgage lender and ask to stop paying the PMI. The PMI only covers the amount you borrowed and not the whole mortgage, but lenders won't tell you because the would get less money if they did. My closing officer told me about this. I'll call her again to double check.

A lot of this is about knowing the system and how to use to your advantage. Is it hard? Yes, but the payoff is worth it.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

For that, a lot of problems are because people want to live in these high cost of living areas. Houses in FL meth country have also doubled in price...from about $70k to $140k. So they're still affordable. But also they are fixer-uppers that look like meth murder shacks, so YMMV.

Buying a project house so you can LARP like you're on HGTV is all fun...until you discover asbestos tile underneath 3 layers of vinyl cover and get absolutely robbed blind by an approved abatement contractor that the town forced you to use

Flippers make it work because they take a "see no evil speak no evil" approach to their renos. Slap a new coat of pain on everything, knock out a wall for an open concept design, put in new cabinets, put a new layer of asphalt shingles on the roof. Done.

Asbestos, lead paint, mold, aluminum wiring, rotted roof sheathing, polybutylene pipes? Nah dunno, never could have known about it so that's why we didn't disclose it. Once you start ripping apart a house for real then things can go south quick.

 

[The-Patriarchy]

Thanks. I'm proud/glad/lucky to be in my position, but there's nothing more that annoys me than seeing people who wallow in their own helplessness spreading their despair that stems from misinformation. I took a peek at r/lostgeneration because I saw a viral tweet on Twitter and these idiots are complaining about a 3 bed 2.5 bath home going for 1.6 million dollars that's located in the heart of Seattle... of course it'll be that much, it's located at Elliott Bay.

If I recall, when you pay the amount that you borrowed for the house (not including the interest), you can call your mortgage lender and ask to stop paying the PMI. The PMI only covers the amount you borrowed and not the whole mortgage, but lenders won't tell you because the would get less money if they did. My closing officer told me about this. I'll call her again to double check.

A lot of this is about knowing the system and how to use to your advantage. Is it hard? Yes, but the payoff is worth it.

For PMI- you can get PMI removed once your loan balance is less than 80% of your home's appraisal value- you can get there two ways- paying down your loan (or paying extra to get there faster) until you have more than 20% equity. OR you can monitor housing prices for comparable homes in your area- as the value of your house goes up, but your loan stays the same (and gradually decreases as you pay principal)- you may get that 20% equity through the gains in home value alone. To remove PMI early, you have to request it- regardless of how you get there (pay down early, or through price gains), and you probably have to hire an appraiser to prove it.

The mortgage company will eventually reach out to you and tell you you're qualified to remove PMI- but they will wait as long as possible to do so- until you've paid down your original loan to a certain amount- despite the fact that in most cases, increases in market value will get there faster.

You want to dump PMI as soon as possible- you're basically paying for insurance that protects the mortgage company, NOT you- but it's the price you pay for favorable loan conditions for first time buyers who may not be able to save up a 20% down payment.

I bought a home on FHA once- was able to put 10% down, at a time when interest rates were pretty low. I got PMI taken off early because I slightly overpaid my mortgage every month (rounded up my payment to a round number- shaved months off my mortgage even if it was only a tiny amount per month), and because the housing prices in my neighborhood kept increasing at a good clip- then when my home's value shot up again, was able to trade up to a bigger house in a better neighborhood without PMI, and extract a little extra equity to pay off some bills and budget for renovations/repairs. It may be a struggle to pay for that first house, but as long as you can survive past crazy one off events like the housing market bubble, you'll build wealth, and be better positioned for your next home.

 

[NoReturn]

A friend of mine sent me a video today and it lead me to this series:

 

[Duke Nukem]

If you don't buy a house then the foreclosure industry can't rob your ass blind at an opportune time. And it's probably legal.

 

[mindlessobserver]

If you don't buy a house then the foreclosure industry can't rob your ass blind at an opportune time. And it's probably legal.

It's really simple to avoid foreclosure. Just keep your mortgage current and ignore every other bill. Then declare bankruptcy. The primary domicile is almost always unreachable in a bankruptcy.

A mistake most people make in a financial meltdown situation is they don't stay current on their mortgage along with everything else. They try and "make ends meet", maybe skip a payment to try and make the credit card companies stop calling.

Never a good idea.

 

[Duke Nukem]

It's really simple to avoid foreclosure. Just keep your mortgage current and ignore every other bill. Then declare bankruptcy. The primary domicile is almost always unreachable in a bankruptcy.

A mistake most people make in a financial meltdown situation is they don't stay current on their mortgage along with everything else. They try and "make ends meet", maybe skip a payment to try and make the credit card companies stop calling.

Never a good idea.

Yeah a lot of people don't know what's allowed or not when you're actually in serious financial trouble. They assume that "lol 50 cent filed for bankruptcy, he's going to be broke as shit now" while not understanding that certain assets are protected. They can't take your main car or your main house at least. I'm sure they masturbate furiously to the thought of taking everything from people though. Never underestimate a person with few limits to their power.

Do some people deserve to lose everything? Sure. But it's a lot more difficult to do, legally speaking, than most people would have you believe.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Yeah a lot of people don't know what's allowed or not when you're actually in serious financial trouble. They assume that "lol 50 cent filed for bankruptcy, he's going to be broke as shit now" while not understanding that certain assets are protected. They can't take your main car or your main house at least. I'm sure they masturbate furiously to the thought of taking everything from people though. Never underestimate a person with few limits to their power.

Do some people deserve to lose everything? Sure. But it's a lot more difficult to do, legally speaking, than most people would have you believe.

Caveat Emptor applies to the banks as much as anyone else. Shouldn't have loaned the money to the retard. That is why unsecured credit card debt has such a high interest rate in the first place.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Yeah a lot of people don't know what's allowed or not when you're actually in serious financial trouble. They assume that "lol 50 cent filed for bankruptcy, he's going to be broke as shit now" while not understanding that certain assets are protected. They can't take your main car or your main house at least. I'm sure they masturbate furiously to the thought of taking everything from people though. Never underestimate a person with few limits to their power.

And if you've got too many assets for state exemption laws you have the option of making it as hard as possible for creditors to recoup anything. Good fucking luck suing my LLC in Seychelles.

 

[american_amadan]

Multigenerational households should make a comeback.

 

[Uncle June]

Multigenerational households should make a comeback.

Agreed 109%.

Not only did it provide maintained wealth and easy savings for the younger generations, but it also provides familial bonding and growth. The Mexicans have the right idea.

What we need are large "estate" houses sourrounded by several acres back, where each family has 10-15 people living in it and the houses are large enough to accommodate them. True, it's expensive, but the idea is that everybody chips in to a certain degree (depending on age, income, etc), making it miniscule per person.

 

[NoReturn]

Multigenerational households should make a comeback.

Agreed 109%.

Not only did it provide maintained wealth and easy savings for the younger generations, but it also provides familial bonding and growth. The Mexicans have the right idea.

What we need are large "estate" houses sourrounded by several acres back, where each family has 10-15 people living in it and the houses are large enough to accommodate them. True, it's expensive, but the idea is that everybody chips in to a certain degree (depending on age, income, etc), making it miniscule per person.

Absolutely yes. The splintering of the family is absolutely something that benefits consumption, and not the individual.

• Gotta make money to pay rent, gotta work even harder to pay rent and also save up for a down payment at the same time.
• Working hard all day? Don't have time for groceries or cooking? Order in!
• Can't keep things clean? Try this new service or gadget!
• Can't risk taking time off work for a vacation or you might lose your job? Play this video game or watch this movie!
• Want a kid? Better have both parents working so one of them can pay for childcare and the other can pay the mortgage!

 

[american_amadan]

Agreed 109%.

Not only did it provide maintained wealth and easy savings for the younger generations, but it also provides familial bonding and growth. The Mexicans have the right idea.

What we need are large "estate" houses sourrounded by several acres back, where each family has 10-15 people living in it and the houses are large enough to accommodate them. True, it's expensive, but the idea is that everybody chips in to a certain degree (depending on age, income, etc), making it miniscule per person.

Absolutely yes. The splintering of the family is absolutely something that benefits consumption, and not the individual.

• Gotta make money to pay rent, gotta work even harder to pay rent and also save up for a down payment at the same time.
• Working hard all day? Don't have time for groceries or cooking? Order in!
• Can't keep things clean? Try this new service or gadget!
• Can't risk taking time off work for a vacation or you might lose your job? Play this video game or watch this movie!
• Want a kid? Better have both parents working so one of them can pay for childcare and the other can pay the mortgage!

It's ultimately the biggest middle finger to the banks. A functioning family dynamic in a home or multiple on a piece of land is a disaster to them. Money gets invested elsewhere. A multigenerational estate has sentimental value that survives any market crash. I live in an urban area and my extended family has bought multiple homes on the same street, including 3 right next to each other. It's a fantastic set up.

The kicker is it's a now gentrifying neighborhood. Unless you buy all 5 you aren't getting one, no matter what you offer. But I'm very lucky because the people in my larger community are reluctant to sell their homes, and if they do it'll normally be a word of mouth sale to a friend or relative. I hope that attitude never goes away. The banks want all renters because that's where the $$$ is. But it takes a lot to break a homeowner who likes their neighborhood and doesn't want to leave.

 

[TheRedChair]

It's ultimately the biggest middle finger to the banks. A functioning family dynamic in a home or multiple on a piece of land is a disaster to them. Money gets invested elsewhere. A multigenerational estate has sentimental value that survives any market crash. I live in an urban area and my extended family has bought multiple homes on the same street, including 3 right next to each other. It's a fantastic set up.

No... The ultimate middle finger to the banks is BUYING THAT LAND ALL WITH CASH and cutting out the middleman.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Multigenerational households should make a comeback.

To a degree they are, thanks to the fact that it's become so hard to afford a house along with the aging population. So you get older people moving in with their kids (and not just for additional medical care) and younger adults moving in with grandma (and not just single young adults, married couples too).

 

[mindlessobserver]

To a degree they are, thanks to the fact that it's become so hard to afford a house along with the aging population. So you get older people moving in with their kids (and not just for additional medical care) and younger adults moving in with grandma (and not just single young adults, married couples too).

Land is power. A family without land is a family of serfs. They live at the whim of those who own the means of their survival. I bought an acre of land with a three bedroom in the middle of fucking nowhere for a reason.

Yeah, there is no internet here and I have to phone post all the time. But I own the dirt, and I own the well. My descendents will own both too. That will put them light years ahead of the nightmare that is fast coming for the slaves in the city.

 

[NoReturn]

Land is power. A family without land is a family of serfs. They live at the whim of those who own the means of their survival. I bought an acre of land with a three bedroom in the middle of fucking nowhere for a reason.

Yeah, there is no internet here and I have to phone post all the time. But I own the dirt, and I own the well. My descendents will own both too. That will put them light years ahead of the nightmare that is fast coming for the slaves in the city.

Having a place to "go to" even if it's not a primary residence puts you ahead of many others.